FFXIV jobs in RP

[Paradox]

Scylla uses Unholy.

 

If you want Ancient Holy, you need to look to Amdapor.

 

Yeah. Makes me wonder what Unholy actually is; if it's white magic reverse engineered, or some kind of proto-succor with dark magic infused into it. The questions I wish they'd answer on the spells some of these bosses use. >>

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Scylla uses Unholy.

 

If you want Ancient Holy, you need to look to Amdapor.

 

Yeah. Makes me wonder what Unholy actually is; if it's white magic reverse engineered, or some kind of proto-succor with dark magic infused into it. The questions I wish they'd answer on the spells some of these bosses use. >>

 

Perhaps it's actual void magic? We know the Allags really liked their void experiments, which eventually led to their downfall.

[Paradox]

Could be. They had so many innovations, from magitech to void control. Hell, they were able to enact a ritual to bring an actual dead person back to life. Which means calling their specific energy back from the Lifestream or Void, wherever it goes, and reconstituting it into a physical form properly instead of in a zombie or voidsent form. That's pretty insane no matter how you look at it.

[LiadansWhisper]

Could be. They had so many innovations, from magitech to void control. Hell, they were able to enact a ritual to bring an actual dead person back to life. Which means calling their specific energy back from the Lifestream or Void, wherever it goes, and reconstituting it into a physical form properly instead of in a zombie or voidsent form. That's pretty insane no matter how you look at it.

 

 

And yet, it appears to have led to madness

[Paradox]

Madness? THIS. IS. ...nah, too easy. But yeah, with great power comes great insanity usually. There's always *some* higher cost to be the peak civilization of any lore or story. Hubris, dark deals, that sort of thing, so it's no surprise. Kinda what Ark does in a way. He studies Allagan stuff, works with what he can, but also remembers 'hey, these guys kinda fucked up ages ago. Let's not do that again.'

 

And this whole thing's gone semi off topic.

[111]

The backstory of all the fallen civilizations in ffxiv reads like cavemen science fiction. Everyone was a victim of their own hubris, everyone reached too far, did the forbidden thing, etc etc. No one ever gets taken out by a plague or economic turmoil or something.

 

Everyone has to play god.

 

[Dat Oni]

The backstory of all the fallen civilizations in ffxiv reads like cavemen science fiction. Everyone was a victim of their own hubris, everyone reached too far, did the forbidden thing, etc etc. No one ever gets taken out by a plague or economic turmoil or something.

 

Everyone has to play god.

 

 

Great analogy, except you forgot the presence of the Ascians. It's not just hubris at work, it's manipulation of said hubris.

 

The Ascians go into an Astral Era, gift the lesser species with advanced technologies and magicks, take everything they need, and then that species conveniently gets annihilated in a calamity leading into an Umbral era. They have done this seven times, according to the Hydaelyn-possessed Minfillia (who I'm just going to call MILFillia from now on, because "Mother Hydaelyn", get it?). 

 

[Sounsyy]

Everyone was a victim of their own hubris, everyone reached too far, did the forbidden thing, etc etc. No one ever gets taken out by a plague or economic turmoil or something.

 

I realize this is hyperbole, but, not entirely accurate. Nym and Qarn both got wiped out by plague. Two out of five known ancient civilizations ain't no one. (Not to mention 5th Umbral Calamity was a time period of famine, plague, and disease, so just about every 4AE civilization falls under the wiped out by plague category until we know more details.)

 

Anyways hasn't this topic gone a bit... well off topic?

[111]

Everyone was a victim of their own hubris, everyone reached too far, did the forbidden thing, etc etc. No one ever gets taken out by a plague or economic turmoil or something.

 

I realize this is hyperbole, but, not entirely accurate. Nym and Qarn both got wiped out by plague. Two out of five known ancient civilizations ain't no one. (Not to mention 5th Umbral Calamity was a time period of famine, plague, and disease, so just about every 4AE civilization falls under the wiped out by plague category until we know more details.)

 

Anyways hasn't this topic gone a bit... well off topic?

I bet we'll find out eventually the plague was caused by trying to build a portal to the henceforth unmentioned realm of disease or something. 

 

A little off topic, I suppose. To get things back, is there anything stopping someone from creating a new job, and a new soulstone to store it in like the machinist? If I wanted my character to have the 'Corsair' job or something, and she built her own soulstone, is there a problem with that?

[Momo]

The root of the argument is basically what is being skirted, and that is: most things can be done, but to be done they would need to be done well and done "certain ways" and most would rather just toss out the concept and RPer both, rather than try to creep into it, testing it, and getting the good RP that comes from it.  Bottom line is: you trust a person and you know them to be a good RPer, then trust they have you in mind, and not just themselves, in that way you can have good RP flowing, lots of development and you are both on the same page.

 

We know that WHM can be done, is it hard?  Yes.  Does it have to be done in a certain way?  Yes.  Should no one ever do it because it is too hard and requires too much thought?  No.  I fully think they should, and the ones that choose to, should know the limitations that come along with that, and be adept and content with playing those out.  Same with any of the harder jobs, BLM included.  Be a creative RPer, and work out a plot with a BLM soulstone in it, they did exist, there was more than one BLM during the War of Magi.  The stone could be hidden in the most obvious place, could have been found, and the owner doesn't know what it is, could be set in the necklace/belt of your plot's characters.  Bilbo found the ring of power in a cave, before that it was found in the bottom of a lake.  Don't play yourself as the WoL, but take some inspiration in the subtlety that powerful objects can have, many of the greatest fiction writers of all time certainly did.

 

Either way, build some trust in your group, and with other RPers in the community, and most of them will not only have no problem, but also commend you for your ability.  Don't come out of left field expecting full trust and "anything goes", and you will be set!

[allgivenover]

One thing to consider is that many of your RP desires can be met without taking a Job ICly if you really examine them.

 

However, there's no suitable alternative if you just want to play one, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[LiadansWhisper]

Madness? THIS. IS. ...nah, too easy. But yeah, with great power comes great insanity usually. There's always *some* higher cost to be the peak civilization of any lore or story. Hubris, dark deals, that sort of thing, so it's no surprise. Kinda what Ark does in a way. He studies Allagan stuff, works with what he can, but also remembers 'hey, these guys kinda fucked up ages ago. Let's not do that again.'

 

And this whole thing's gone semi off topic.

 

Our best known case of Allag's ability to raise someone from the dead brought back a ruler who was essentially driven mad by visions of darkness he couldn't escape. Which kind of suggests that sometimes just because you can doesn't mean you should.

[LiadansWhisper]

The root of the argument is basically what is being skirted, and that is: most things can be done, but to be done they would need to be done well and done "certain ways" and most would rather just toss our the concept and RPer both, rather than try to creep into it, testing it, and getting the good RP that comes from it.  Bottom line is: you trust a person and you know them to be a good RPer, then trust they have you in mind, and not just themselves, in that way you can have good RP flowing, lots of development and you are both on the same page.

 

We know that WHM can be done, is it hard?  Yes.  Does it have to be done in a certain way?  Yes.  Should no one ever do it because it is too hard and requires too much thought?  No.  I fully think they should, and the ones that choose to, should know the limitations that come along with that, and be adept and content with playing those out.  Same with any of the harder jobs, BLM included.  Be a creative RPer, and work out a plot with a BLM soulstone in it, they did exist, there was more than one BLM during the War of Magi.  The stone could be hidden in the most obvious place, could have been found, and the owner doesn't know what it is, could be set in the necklace/belt of your plot's characters.  Bilbo found the ring of power in a cave, before that it was found in the bottom of a lake.  Don't play yourself as the WoL, but take some inspiration in the subtlety that powerful objects can have, many of the greatest fiction writers of all time certainly did.

 

Either way, build some trust in your group, and with other RPers in the community, and most of them will not only have no problem, but also commend you for your ability.  Don't come out of left field expecting full trust and "anything goes", and you will be set!

 

This is all excellent advice, and I don't say that lightly.

[Paradox]

Agreed. A'rklonn for example, is a BLM, lock stock and barrel, and a Summoner on top of it. Because he's spent a lot of his life studying Allagan artifacts, tomestones, and other things he probably shouldn't, through less than legal means. The thing is, he's never once told anyone he knows the Black. His wife and daughters know and that's it. He knows better.  He's mentioned to a few friends and a acquaintances he can Summon as Summoning is a little easier to learn (From what I gathered in the stories), and not 'forbidden' so much as 'lost'. But IC he also only knows how to summon Ifrit and Titan since he's only fought them, and Levi IC. As he has the Echo, he's able to enter such fights, and in his story, he's gone into said fights because he was asked by his Grand Company to do so to aid other groups because the Warrior(s) of Light were not available at the time. Realistically, the WoL can't be there for *every* summoning of the Primals, and with the frequency the quests are given it's like the Tribes summon one every friggin' month or so. So I didn't think it'd be too farfetched to say the GCs were like 'hey yeah, this guy has a pretty decent rank in our organization and we know he can fight (He's Maelstrom IC, civilian consultant with rank because he translates languages and handles shipping routes as well as clearing out undesirables), so he went along to help handle the Eikon problem. They aren't aware he has Echo, very few are; only that he's skilled, like the way the Company of Heroes was skilled. Throw too many at it to temper, basically. 

 

The key to having a special job is not only a good explanation but not to throw it all over the place. If you're a WHM, or a BLM, advertising it is bad for you. You can probably get away with going 'yeah I'm just that good of a Thaum/Conjy' if someone sees you use white or black magic and they don't know either of the arts themselves. An IC warrior for example who's never studied magic would likely not know Black Magic from Thaumaturgy. Remember that you're keeping a big secret if you use these spells. That's a good tie in to a lot of things. hell, it's an Rp in and of itself to sneak around and try to be as effective as you can with your power, while making sure nobody knows the truth.

[Seriphyn]

Raubahn being all DBZ in 3.2 proves you can still be an OP BMF without a Job crystal. You can still be a powerful thaumaturge or conjurer while just being a thaumaturge or conjurer. I like to imagine my char as a GLD of 20 years will be far more deadly than an 18 y/o PLD, especially that the story has proven that disciples of war use aether too. 

 

For that reason, I echo what people have said about not just choosing a job not just for its own sake.

[Paradox]

Thancred, too. Trying not to spoil anything, but even with his current condition, he took a level in badass. And he's just some guy. He has no special powers at all other than his skills and training. Y'shtola as well (and I don't mean her new special feature), but she uses Conjury and..well, in the fight with those guys, and just using her hands. Yeah, those who have seen it know what I'm talking about, that mix of shielding and reinforcement. You *can* be strong, very strong with training and talent. And the Scions are not special people any more than anyone else is. They're just trained and determined. So yeah, you don't need one to have strength. But if you do, it opens up new avenues for RP of different types as well. :3

 

I bet we'll find out eventually the plague was caused by trying to build a portal to the henceforth unmentioned realm of disease or something.

Actually they do explain it, at least for Nym, in the SCH post 50 quest. And it's..well, I don't wanna spoil it for those that haven't done it, but it was nothing like what you said.

[Momo]

To be fair to those who play "more powerful jobs", the good RPers who play them, don't do so because they want a strong character, they do so because they want to explore those jobs in-character.  Often one of the points raised against powerful jobs, is power seeking, but if you are doing a job for power in a world of RP...you are totally missing the point, because no one can be commanded to acknowledge that power either way.

Another thing, how do we know that Raub doesn't have a soulstone, literally I am curious if this is mentioned or just assumed?  Because the commander of the Sultansworn...I am just not sure he doesn't have a soulstone unless there is proof otherwise.  Not that it matters!  I am just curious! Hahaha

[LiadansWhisper]

Thancred, too. Trying not to spoil anything, but even with his current condition, he took a level in badass. And he's just some guy. He has no special powers at all other than his skills and training. Y'shtola as well (and I don't mean her new special feature), but she uses Conjury and..well, in the fight with those guys, and just using her hands. Yeah, those who have seen it know what I'm talking about, that mix of shielding and reinforcement. You *can* be strong, very strong with training and talent. And the Scions are not special people any more than anyone else is. They're just trained and determined. So yeah, you don't need one to have strength. But if you do, it opens up new avenues for RP of different types as well. :3

 

I bet we'll find out eventually the plague was caused by trying to build a portal to the henceforth unmentioned realm of disease or something.

Actually they do explain it, at least for Nym, in the SCH post 50 quest. And it's..well, I don't wanna spoil it for those that haven't done it, but it was nothing like what you said.

 

It's heavily implied multiple times in the MSQ that Tancredo is really, REALLY old. Possibly immortal.

 

Y'shtola has used abilities from multiple jobs (or, at least, things that LOOK like those abilities). I'm not sure what she is, but I'm sure shes NOT a Conjurer (or, at least, that isn't her main source of power). Probably 90% of what she uses bears no resemblance to Conjury, for all that she carries a wand.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Thancred, too. Trying not to spoil anything, but even with his current condition, he took a level in badass. And he's just some guy. He has no special powers at all other than his skills and training. Y'shtola as well (and I don't mean her new special feature), but she uses Conjury and..well, in the fight with those guys, and just using her hands. Yeah, those who have seen it know what I'm talking about, that mix of shielding and reinforcement. You *can* be strong, very strong with training and talent. And the Scions are not special people any more than anyone else is. They're just trained and determined. So yeah, you don't need one to have strength. But if you do, it opens up new avenues for RP of different types as well. :3

 

I bet we'll find out eventually the plague was caused by trying to build a portal to the henceforth unmentioned realm of disease or something.

Actually they do explain it, at least for Nym, in the SCH post 50 quest. And it's..well, I don't wanna spoil it for those that haven't done it, but it was nothing like what you said.

 

It's heavily implied multiple times in the MSQ that Tancredo is really, REALLY old. Possibly immortal.

 

Y'shtola has used abilities from multiple jobs (or, at least, things that LOOK like those abilities). I'm not sure what she is, but I'm sure shes NOT a Conjurer (or, at least, that isn't her main source of power). Probably 90% of what she uses bears no resemblance to Conjury, for all that she carries a wand.

 

What she uses looks a LOT like 1.0 Conjury. The same way Tancred used Rogue things before he was forced into a class that the game actually had.

[Paradox]

It basically is 1.0 Conjury. In 1.0, Conjurers used all the elemental spells, and Thaumaturges were CC users, and blood mages iirc. (I actually reflect that in my Thaum RP as well; Ark uses a lot of old thaumaturgy). In fact, in 1.0, you could cast without having the wand in your hand, you just had to have it on your person, which accounts for a lot of what Y'shotla does. I kind of like to see them showing that a lot of the old methods are still viable even if our current classes don't reflect it.

[Warren Castille]

To be fair to those who play "more powerful jobs", the good RPers who play them, don't do so because they want a strong character, they do so because they want to explore those jobs in-character.  Often one of the points raised against powerful jobs, is power seeking, but if you are doing a job for power in a world of RP...you are totally missing the point, because no one can be commanded to acknowledge that power either way.

Another thing, how do we know that Raub doesn't have a soulstone, literally I am curious if this is mentioned or just assumed?  Because the commander of the Sultansworn...I am just not sure he doesn't have a soulstone unless there is proof otherwise.  Not that it matters!  I am just curious! Hahaha

 

Bzzzzt. Raubahn's the Flame General and known to have competed in the Bloodsands, but he's got nothing to do with the Sultansworn.

 

Still, it could be argued that there IS a Flame General stone floating out there. We don't have enough information to definitely state one way or the other if he is a Job, a Class, or just an NPC.

[Momo]

Sorry, at work not looking at my chart, Bloodsworn >,<;;;; Whoops, thank you Warren!

 

But I still stand by my soulstone idea!

[LiadansWhisper]

It basically is 1.0 Conjury. In 1.0, Conjurers used all the elemental spells, and Thaumaturges were CC users, and blood mages iirc. (I actually reflect that in my Thaum RP as well; Ark uses a lot of old thaumaturgy). In fact, in 1.0, you could cast without having the wand in your hand, you just had to have it on your person, which accounts for a lot of what Y'shotla does. I kind of like to see them showing that a lot of the old methods are still viable even if our current classes don't reflect it.

 

Yes, I get what you're saying, but when she pops out with what we know to be an Astrologian ability (the aoe bubble she creates) and casts what looks suspiciously like Holy during the end of the ARR MSQ, I question whether it's a Conjurer we're dealing with.

 

Something to bear in mind is that what we have for classes and jobs are generally Eorzea-only. We have no real idea of what kind of magic and abilities are available outside of our lone continent beyond Ninja and Astrologian (and possibly Dark Knight). And we won't as long as the game takes place only on the continent of Eorzea.

 

Still, it could be argued that there IS a Flame General stone floating out there. We don't have enough information to definitely state one way or the other if he is a Job, a Class, or just an NPC.

 

This is true of basically all the major NPCs we've run into except for Kan-E-Senna (who appears to be a very stereotypical White Mage/Padjal). They manifest abilities that don't fit into a single box. In some cases, that can be explained by them not being native to Eorzea at all (many of the Scions, for instance, are from Sharlayan).

[Paradox]

As I recall, you could cross-class skills in 1.0 as well, but in a very different manner. It could just be they're using skills from other classes, or even skills they created themselves. I remember that one of the Heavens' Ward is able to combine thaumaturgy  with weapon play to imbue lightning into his weapon in one of the in-game references. I can't recall which but I know it's there. so it's entirely possible that people like Raubahn with a lot of combat experience have created their own fighting techniques.

 

As for Y'shtola, who can say. Again it could be that she's experienced enough that she knows ways to cast her spells that others don't because she's studied so long. In just about any environment with spells, there's metamagic, differences in casting method, and the like. Every wizard (or conjurer in this case) will likely find a way to customize and make their spells unique in order to keep ahead of the game. Especially with Sharlayans who study all kinds of old knowledge and magic theory.

[Dis]

While I think it would be interesting if NPC's used their own specially tailored jobs (is that even a thing that someone could datamine to find out?), I'd like to think it's more that these individuals have had their classes so long that they've tailored them to their own fighting styles and unique abilities. 

 

When you consider that these are the abilities that these individuals rely on to save their lives, etc, it makes sense that they'd adjust their skills to benefit their own unique fighting style.  It's entirely possible that Y'shtola is a conjurer but uses a mixture of other magics, or has branched into other schools of magic, isn't it?  At least, I feel that's what we're seeing implied by the skills she utilizes.

 

Also, if we're considering 'Eorzea' as a whole, are we only considering the three (now four) city states?  This area of Aldenard also included Dravania and such, didn't it?  Because didn't 'that' group come from the Idyllshire area, and not Sharlayan proper?  I want to say that was implied in a conversation between quests at some point in early 3.0, but don't quote me on that because I might be misremembering what I read, it's been months since I played that content, and I don't know if we have a precise frame of reference on some of the NPC's ages to know if they were born in the colony or the actual region.

 

That said, with Sharlayan's being as focused on magic and learning as they are, I could definitely see it being something along the lines of Y'shtola knowing multiple forms of magic and study, because 'magic' seems to be her field, not just one specific form of magic.  I also don't know how 'special' they're making the NPC's, or if they're literally just giving them powers that suit them within the lore to the effect of the utility they want those characters in the story to have.

 

That said, I think the idea of there being a special Flame General soulstone would be interesting.  I think someone further up mentioned making a custom soulstone - I mean, we've seen it's possible to create a soulstone with the MCH quests.  It's one of the things I have Glioca working toward now that she's ICly being trained as a Monk (if not specifically a Fist), is to create a unique soulstone that encompasses her ability to utilize magic in conjunction with her martial arts. 

 

While I adore the jobs we see in XIV and like the lore surrounding some of them, I'd really like to see more people 'invent' their own jobs now that we technically know it's possible, either drawing inspiration from outside sources, or from other Final Fantasy games.