FFXIV jobs in RP

[Sarina Alyne]

I've been roleplaying for many years, and have only just started to get into roleplaying on FFXIV (Balmung). However, before I start searching for roleplay, I figured it would be logical to ask a few lore-related questions to avoid annoying anybody.

 

Obviously, I realize that any integration with the story is taboo- yet I must ask how the job system works into it. My character is a White Mage, and it is a pretty significant part of her character. Would that generally be accepted in some manner?

 

Thank you in advance.

[FreelanceWizard]

Obviously, I realize that any integration with the story is taboo- yet I must ask how the job system works into it. My character is a White Mage, and it is a pretty significant part of her character. Would that generally be accepted in some manner?

 

This is a pretty hot and oft discussed topic. Just search "white mage lore" here and you'll see. Given the lore around White Mage -- which largely revolves around how the singular Warrior of Light is the only non-Padjal to have been taught it in centuries -- you need to have a pretty solid explanation for how you got access to a power that at least one group (the Padjal) indisputably tries to restrict. The devs have confirmed that there are other means to access Succor, but those means may or may not be bad (depending on how you interpret what they've said). Even with a good explanation of how you learned it, there will be groups of RPers that won't accept the claim.

 

One thing I guess I'd ask is, given how tied White Mage is to Gridania's politics and lore, and how restrictive the job lore is, does it buy you a lot narratively to be a White Mage instead of, say, a powerful conjurer? The job White Mage comes with a lot of baggage, whereas a powerful conjurer can do essentially anything a White Mage can do. Even the White Mage "job spells," like Regen, can be worked around in RP (it's magic amplified through another discipline, it's a new spell I created/researched, it's a magical item/magitek item/Allagan artifact, and so on). It's just that the source of their aether is a bit different.

 

EDIT: To your larger question, not all jobs are as restrictive as WHM. In fact, in 3.x, I'd argue it's an anomaly, now. Some jobs are actively and openly taught, some are being revived by various groups, and some are esoteric but still within reach. WHM stands alone as basically inaccessible without some serious narrative dancing and making some "big asks" of fellow RPers.

[Sarina Alyne]

Obviously, I realize that any integration with the story is taboo- yet I must ask how the job system works into it. My character is a White Mage, and it is a pretty significant part of her character. Would that generally be accepted in some manner?

 

This is a pretty hot and oft discussed topic. Just search "white mage lore" here and you'll see. Given the lore around White Mage -- which largely revolves around how the singular Warrior of Light is the only non-Padjal to have been taught it in centuries -- you need to have a pretty solid explanation for how you got access to a power that at least one group (the Padjal) indisputably tries to restrict. The devs have confirmed that there are other means to access Succor, but those means may or may not be bad (depending on how you interpret what they've said). Even with a good explanation of how you learned it, there will be groups of RPers that won't accept the claim.

 

One thing I guess I'd ask is, given how tied White Mage is to Gridania's politics and lore, and how restrictive the job lore is, does it buy you a lot narratively to be a White Mage instead of, say, a powerful conjurer? The job White Mage comes with a lot of baggage, whereas a powerful conjurer can do essentially anything a White Mage can do. Even the White Mage "job spells," like Regen, can be worked around in RP (it's magic amplified through another discipline, it's a new spell I created/researched, it's a magical item/magitek item/Allagan artifact, and so on). It's just that the source of their aether is a bit different.

 

EDIT: To your larger question, not all jobs are as restrictive as WHM. In fact, in 3.x, I'd argue it's an anomaly, now. Some jobs are actively and openly taught, some are being revived by various groups, and some are esoteric but still within reach. WHM stands alone as basically inaccessible without some serious narrative dancing and making some "big asks" of fellow RPers.

 

Thank you for the swift and detailed reply! Everything you have said makes complete sense, and I did have a feeling that this sort of thing would be taboo in the FFXIV roleplay community. The last thing I wanted to do was get into trouble! 

 

 

With that being the case, I'll make some major modifications to my character's backstory and develop a Conjurer version of her exclusively for in-game roleplay.

 

 

(EDIT: Completely messed up the quote in the original post.)

[SaintEaon]

Other jobs do weird stuff like this too. The Dark Knight storyline between 30 and 50 establishes stuff that in theory you could do in character that is just bonkers. Not only is it out there insane if you RP'd half of it with people who haven't read up on it or experienced it themselves they'd probably accuse you of some manner of BS just because it sounds sooooo unreal if someone explains it to you. (PM me if you want to know but there are serious spoilers in it so I'm not gonna go into too much detail here)

[Sounsyy]

Freelance, as usual, did a beautiful summary of some of the inherent difficulties involving the lore of White Mages. Instead of basically repeating what he said, I'm going to post a few links to the lore behind Conjurers, White Mages, and Padjal and those should clarify most of the gritty details I think. But feel free to let us know if you have further lore questions! ^^

 

Conjurer Focused Lore

-Conjurer Attire and What the Robe's Color Signifies

-Conjurer and Hearer Lore with Link to CNJ Questline

-Communication with the Elementals

-The Conjurers' Elemental Wheel

-Hedge Trees

-Woodsin Lore Compilation

-What happened to Woodsin?

-Elemental Lore

-Practices of CNJ vs WHM

-Spell Casting Lore

-Stillglade Fane Lore

 

White Mage Focused Lore

-Padjal Lore

-Padjal Horns Lore

-Is White Magic Even Common Knowledge?

-Lost City of Amdapor Lore

-White Mage Lore

(This thread was sparked by the Amdapor one above. It essentially argued whether Succor is the Elemental's magic that was gifted to the Amdaporians and later the Padjal, or was it originally invented by the Amdaporians and stolen by the Elementals and then regifted to the Gridanians when the Elementals made the Padjal. It's a bit of a read, but there is lore in there somewhere.)

 

If you are planning to stay a while, you might want to learn a bit about the elementals.

They reside within all creation, and are the organizing principle at work throughout the world.

The ancient elementals of the Twelveswood are much more powerful and wise than those from other parts of the world.

 

 

Hope this helps! ^^

[Sarina Alyne]

Freelance, as usual, did a beautiful summary of some of the inherent difficulties involving the lore of White Mages. Instead of basically repeating what he said, I'm going to post a few links to the lore behind Conjurers, White Mages, and Padjal and those should clarify most of the gritty details I think. But feel free to let us know if you have further lore questions! ^^

 

Conjurer Focused Lore

-Conjurer Attire and What the Robe's Color Signifies

-Conjurer and Hearer Lore with Link to CNJ Questline

-Communication with the Elementals

-The Conjurers' Elemental Wheel

-Hedge Trees

-What happened to Woodsin?

 

White Mage Focused Lore

-Padjal Lore

-Is White Magic Even Common Knowledge?

-Lost City of Amdapor Lore

-White Mage Lore

(This thread was sparked by the Amdapor one above. It essentially argued whether Succor is the Elemental's magic that was gifted to the Amdaporians and later the Padjal, or was it originally invented by the Amdaporians and stolen by the Elementals and then regifted to the Gridanians when the Elementals made the Padjal. It's a bit of a read, but there is lore in there somewhere.)

 

 

Hope this helps! ^^

 

Thank you for the great references! I'll be sure to read through everything (Particularly the Conjurer-focused material) to ensure my character remains lore-friendly.

[Hammersmith]

Echoing what's been said above.  WHM is a tough cookie to swallow if you load it up as it's framed in pure lore.

 

It's way easier to be a 'white magic' practitioner, which can be seen as a "white mage" by others. 

 

AKA: "I don't make people explode when I do magic"

 

It's a fairly common hearth wisdom way of looking at magic, and could easily be used.

 

But the moment someone says succor it's probably a good idea to back away slowly.

[Warren Castille]

XIV does a pretty good job in general of throwing off everyone with the lore for iconic jobs.

 

White Mages aren't healers, they're spirit politicians. Paladins aren't holy knights, they're royal guards. Black mages are entirely outlawed on pain of death because they kill the planet. Dragoons are more than just dragon killers, and dragoons (lower-case letter!) are just dragon killers. Dark Knights aren't fueled by darkness like every other incarnation. For every job that plays it straight (Warrior is still Angry Axe Guy, Monk is still Punch Things Hard, Ninja is still weeb fodder ninja as you'd expect it) there's one other that throws a curve.

[Bearclaw]

XIV does a pretty good job in general of throwing off everyone with the lore for iconic jobs.

 

White Mages aren't healers, they're spirit politicians. Paladins aren't holy knights, they're royal guards. Black mages are entirely outlawed on pain of death because they kill the planet. Dragoons are more than just dragon killers, and dragoons (lower-case letter!) are just dragon killers. Dark Knights aren't fueled by darkness like every other incarnation. For every job that plays it straight (Warrior is still Angry Axe Guy, Monk is still Punch Things Hard, Ninja is still weeb fodder ninja as you'd expect it) there's one other that throws a curve.

 

I mean the paladin class lore you become is a free paladin, which is just sworn to your own oath instead of being sworn to the Sultana. They're more unique in that the paladins you play as in XIV aren't sworn to any religious order or royal order and basically just have a personal oath to abide by instead. So I'd argue it's even more different than what you're stating!

[Kellach Woods]

I'd debate that Warrior was never angry axe guy, and that they essentially put Berserker into Warrior because otherwise the class would have no flavor.

[Warren Castille]

XIV does a pretty good job in general of throwing off everyone with the lore for iconic jobs.

 

White Mages aren't healers, they're spirit politicians. Paladins aren't holy knights, they're royal guards. Black mages are entirely outlawed on pain of death because they kill the planet. Dragoons are more than just dragon killers, and dragoons (lower-case letter!) are just dragon killers. Dark Knights aren't fueled by darkness like every other incarnation. For every job that plays it straight (Warrior is still Angry Axe Guy, Monk is still Punch Things Hard, Ninja is still weeb fodder ninja as you'd expect it) there's one other that throws a curve.

 

I mean the paladin class lore you become is a free paladin, which is just sworn to your own oath instead of being sworn to the Sultana. They're more unique in that the paladins you play as in XIV aren't sworn to any religious order or royal order and basically just have a personal oath to abide by instead. So I'd argue it's even more different than what you're stating!

 

On the one hand, I appreciate more depth than the usual "You are now " stuff. On the other hand, White Mages aren't usually Forest Janitors. Everyone else maintains the niche, but WHM is really out there.

 

I'd debate that Warrior was never angry axe guy, and that they essentially put Berserker into Warrior because otherwise the class would have no flavor.

 

Almost all of XIV's Warrior skills are named after FFXI Warrior skills and abilities, and XI is my immediate comparison mindset.

[Sarina Alyne]

I suppose I should revive this thread given the recent addition of Modern Vocation to the game/world which, presumably, allows those not specifically trained in certain arts to learn the ways of forgotten battle techniques.

 

Again, I am particularly interested in the presence of White Mages in FFXIV roleplay, which I was told earlier in this thread and from other sources is a very taboo job considering the greatly political nature of the job and the exclusivity of the magic. Has Modern Vocation been considered for roleplay use at all? And if so, what is the general consensus from the community when it comes to using this as a means to have exclusive jobs easier to explain/accessible for normal characters?

 

Thank you for your time!

 

Edit: This thread probably belongs in FFXIV Discussion now, if somebody has a chance to move it!

[Teadrinker]

Eh.

 

Modern Vocation kinda falls into the "Game Mechanics don't equal Lore" category in my estimation but to each their own.

[Sarina Alyne]

Eh.

 

Modern Vocation kinda falls into the "Game Mechanics don't equal Lore" category in my estimation but to each their own.

 

That's what I assumed, but I thought it might be prudent to mention it.

[LiadansWhisper]

I suppose I should revive this thread given the recent addition of Modern Vocation to the game/world which, presumably, allows those not specifically trained in certain arts to learn the ways of forgotten battle techniques.

 

Again, I am particularly interested in the presence of White Mages in FFXIV roleplay, which I was told earlier in this thread and from other sources is a very taboo job considering the greatly political nature of the job and the exclusivity of the magic. Has Modern Vocation been considered for roleplay use at all? And if so, what is the general consensus from the community when it comes to using this as a means to have exclusive jobs easier to explain/accessible for normal characters?

 

Thank you for your time!

 

Edit: This thread probably belongs in FFXIV Discussion now, if somebody has a chance to move it!

 

I believe it basically falls into game mechanics, not lore itself.

 

That said, if you are truly wanting to play a White Mage for whatever reason, it's possible. Just tell a story that's convincing. Come up with a good story for how your character was chosen by the Padjal or the Elements (or got a hold of an Amdapori Soulstone) to be trained. And then play it.

 

Some people will be cool with it. Some people won't be. With most, it will depend on how convincing your story is, and how well you play it out.

[Sarina Alyne]

I suppose I should revive this thread given the recent addition of Modern Vocation to the game/world which, presumably, allows those not specifically trained in certain arts to learn the ways of forgotten battle techniques.

 

Again, I am particularly interested in the presence of White Mages in FFXIV roleplay, which I was told earlier in this thread and from other sources is a very taboo job considering the greatly political nature of the job and the exclusivity of the magic. Has Modern Vocation been considered for roleplay use at all? And if so, what is the general consensus from the community when it comes to using this as a means to have exclusive jobs easier to explain/accessible for normal characters?

 

Thank you for your time!

 

Edit: This thread probably belongs in FFXIV Discussion now, if somebody has a chance to move it!

 

I believe it basically falls into game mechanics, not lore itself.

 

That said, if you are truly wanting to play a White Mage for whatever reason, it's possible.  Just tell a story that's convincing.  Come up with a good story for how your character was chosen by the Padjal or the Elements (or got a hold of an Amdapori Soulstone) to be trained.  And then play it.

 

Some people will be cool with it.  Some people won't be.  With most, it will depend on how convincing your story is, and how well you play it out.

 

I've been debating a White Mage story for some time now, however, I almost feel as though the job is too taboo in roleplay lore at this point. I'll write a few drafts, taking into account the lore behind White Mages and see if I can come up with something plausible.

[LiadansWhisper]

I've been debating a White Mage story for some time now, however, I almost feel as though the job is too taboo in roleplay lore at this point. I'll write a few drafts, taking into account the lore behind White Mages and see if I can come up with something plausible.

 

Well, consider this for a moment...if your character were to become a White Mage, that would likely be an extremely well-guarded secret. The magic is forbidden, after all. But then, how many people actually know what Succor looks like when it's used? It would take someone with very specific knowledge to be able to say in-character that they know you were using Succor (if, indeed, you ever did use it in-character).

 

The other thing that I was going to point out is, some people would say, "Oh, well, if I can't be open about it, what's the point? If no one knows, I might as well be a Conjurer?" But that's not entirely true. Sometimes the internal story of a character is every bit as important as the story everyone else sees. Imagine holding the hope of all mankind, and having the power to use it, and having to choose not to do so for the greater good. Or knowing that you could save your friends from some fate, but knowing that you absolutely must not because of the circumstances.

 

There's a lot of character growth and development that can be structured around something like that. But, of course, there are those who will have a problem with you playing a White Mage the moment they find out OOC. Then again...they would probably have a problem with you playing a Conjurer if they didn't like the exact way you go about doing so. Or a problem with your healing actually working on other people (which is a really strange issue I've run into recently - people seem quite hostile to the idea of magical healing working...in a high-magic setting with magical healing :roll: ). So, really, it's a question of what you're willing to put up with, and what you really want.

 

But if you want to play a White Mage, I do recommend that you become one in-character as part of story, not in your background before you entered the game IC.

[Valence]

As long as you are straightforward OOCly with the people you roleplay with...!

[LiadansWhisper]

As long as you are straightforward OOCly with the people you roleplay with...!

 

No one is under any obligation to tell anyone they rp with about anything that would be defined as an in-character secret. In fact, it's a fairly terrible idea to do so, because on the one hand, you have players who will magically "know" the secret IC once you tell them OOC, with no actual investigation. On the other, you'll have players who no longer feel comfortable actually investigating that plot thread because they can't be sure they're not somehow meta gaming by even suspecting it because you already ruined the secret OOC.

 

It's literally no one's business unless they find out in character.

[Paradox]

I know this is an instance of Game mechanics vs Lore and all, but an interesting thing to note is that we see Allagans using both Black and White magic in their boss battles. Admittedly one can say 'well, why make new spells when you can just recycle old ones', right? The thing is, they use differing variants. It's highly likely if you interpret it to any degree that the Allagans may very well have had their own proto-versions of Black and White magic, and the soulstones to manipulate them. They did create Summmoning, after all..which is connected in some ways to the more modern Arcanima. In this instance, it might be possible to stumble on relics or a stone connected to an empire that far predates Amdapor and piece together a sort of proto-succor of your own..of course with the risks that come with it. And even mold it into something resembling modern succor as time goes on.

 

 

Scylla for example uses..was it Dark Holy or Unholy? Can't recall the proper name. And several bosses use 'Ancient Flare'. Some even use earth-based spells that currently no class even has (Xande's Quaga, and Ancient Quaga for example). Admittedly there's no ironclad Lore law that says Allag developed Black/White magic, but magic and its practices, like anything, is passed down, forgotten, and rediscovered under different names later as time goes on. In a way like myths. So it's very well within the rules of magic that Allag may have made the ancestor of those magicks, an older form, which could be used to piece together a more modern form through study. Just a possible avenue.

[Cynel1]

personaly i started my Arc as a gladator for a good base before i became a paladin IC

 

i was tempted to say that Cyn was adopted by a paladin but i went with being adopted by a gladiator to be a bit more believable.

[Kellach Woods]

Scylla for example uses..was it Dark Holy or Unholy? Can't recall the proper name. And several bosses use 'Ancient Flare'. Some even use earth-based spells that currently no class even has (Xande's Quaga, and Ancient Quaga for example). Admittedly there's no ironclad Lore law that says Allag developed Black/White magic, but magic and its practices, like anything, is passed down, forgotten, and rediscovered under different names later as time goes on. In a way like myths. So it's very well within the rules of magic that Allag may have made the ancestor of those magicks, an older form, which could be used to piece together a more modern form through study. Just a possible avenue.

 

Scylla uses Unholy.

 

If you want Ancient Holy, you need to look to Amdapor.

[Valence]

As long as you are straightforward OOCly with the people you roleplay with...!

 

No one is under any obligation to tell anyone they rp with about anything that would be defined as an in-character secret. In fact, it's a fairly terrible idea to do so, because on the one hand, you have players who will magically "know" the secret IC once you tell them OOC, with no actual investigation. On the other, you'll have players who no longer feel comfortable actually investigating that plot thread because they can't be sure they're not somehow meta gaming by even suspecting it because you already ruined the secret OOC.

 

It's literally no one's business unless they find out in character.

 

I don't think I would enjoy playing with people that would meta OOC knowledge like that and suddenly know IC secrets out of the blue.

 

However, I like to know who i'm RPing with, in the exact same vein. If the player thinks I would be annoyed by something in his/her character background and decides to hide it... Well, speak about trust and healthy RP relationship... I guess? In any case, that already hints at RP incompatibility and differences of views.

 

That's why I find the straightforward approach pretty clean and neat. No place for ambiguity, no place for ensuing drama.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

As long as you are straightforward OOCly with the people you roleplay with...!

 

No one is under any obligation to tell anyone they rp with about anything that would be defined as an in-character secret. In fact, it's a fairly terrible idea to do so, because on the one hand, you have players who will magically "know" the secret IC once you tell them OOC, with no actual investigation. On the other, you'll have players who no longer feel comfortable actually investigating that plot thread because they can't be sure they're not somehow meta gaming by even suspecting it because you already ruined the secret OOC.

 

It's literally no one's business unless they find out in character.

 

I don't think I would enjoy playing with people that would meta OOC knowledge like that and suddenly know IC secrets out of the blue.

 

However, I like to know who i'm RPing with, in the exact same vein. If the player thinks I would be annoyed by something in his/her character background and decides to hide it... Well, speak about trust and healthy RP relationship... I guess? In any case, that already hints at RP incompatibility and differences of views.

 

That's why I find the straightforward approach pretty clean and neat. No place for ambiguity, no place for ensuing drama.

 

It's a matter of player preference, and the two sides oppose each other.

 

Some people like/need to know that stuff OOC (whether to judge if they want to RP with the person or not) and others follow a more "don't ask, don't tell" approach where it's ok as long as it's not in their RP (unless they're comfortable RPing it).

 

What I've found that's worked well for me is to have a section of my wiki dedicated to those types of "spoiler-y" or "lore-bent/broken" concepts I RP so I can lay it out for the people who need to know. Then, if I'm RPing with someone who may want to know that stuff, I can point them to it in the wiki for their viewing pleasure. Of course, this runs high-risk of being meta-gamed. But that then becomes a matter of RPing with the people I like to RP with and so on.

[S'imba]

I don't see any problem playing white mage. To me it seems once someone has the secret of succor they're pretty much free to do whatever they want with it. Whether the elementals agree or disagree. It's why they went to all that effort to hide the ruins of amdpor. If they had the capabilities to take it away I would think it would be a pretty good way to warn people what happens when you misuse white magic. Since the elementals wanted that place to stay hidden it suggests that there's something that isn't supposed to be found. Based on the things we saw in lost city hm the white mages were doing some bad juju type of things. Basically I feel if you're character has an explanation how they got  that knowledge I feel you could play it ic. There's not really any force in the game that is powerful enough it can't be beaten in some way. 

As for making everything about your character public knowledge ooc I'm split on it. If it's something I see that could affect rp I'll mention it. If someone's curious I'll explain. There's quite a few things about S'imba I don't tend to mention often in rp cause in most cases it really won't influence the story. So normally I won't mention certain things unless I'm directly asked about it. I have added a few things to my wiki that fell into this category after a few upset people were mad I didn't make some things public knowledge cause they wanted it to use it for their story arc. 

 

Though the biggest thing is just have fun. I'm fairly certain there's plenty of people hate me cause of the way I rp, and want nothing to do with me. But I got people who do enjoy my rp and have like minded tastes. I don't want to spend my time worrying what the community thinks of me by pandering to what some general consensus the community says how you should rp. All I care about is whether your character has a compelling story and motivations...all this over excessive lore policing only has led to the same stuff over and over again cause they are pigeon holed into writing their character to fit in with how everyone else thinks you should play your character.