OOC Race Change to IC implications

[Noirelle]

Exactly what it says.

 

Say I switch Niffie back to being a wildwood because I want to see how mini Niffie's outfits would look/work on Olde Niffie. 

 

Say for example I like how it all looks/found some nice substitutes for pieces that don't agree with the elezen body. Hyuran Chemisette comes to mind. 

 

AND

 

I want her to stay Wildwood like she was before. Now I remember how uuhh anal dissaproving the community gets about in character race changes so that's thrown out the window. How exactly do I spin this little predicament?

 

I think her backstory's ambiguous enough to fit both Wildwood or Midlander(You can read her wiki and tell me if it's even plausible). Still, does that not save her and do I really have to kill her off to replace with a wildwood who has the exact same skillset, background, name, color scheme, heritage, everything that's happened to her?

[Teadrinker]

Fantasia RP.

 

Not even once.

 

No, but really, in my humble opinion (this topic has been done to death too btw) it's very hamfisted and selfish to force the other RPers around you to just 'accept' you're magically a different race/gender/anthropomorphic animal. I never appreciate it and any efforts I've made to realistically play out the change are usually met with silence or "Stop RP shaming me."

 

I'd say run it by your group of people you RP with. It's their opinions that matter to you, not ours. If it doesn't bother them and you want to do it then go for it.

[S'imba]

The biggest issue to deal with is that you'd have to be sure that people knew the change was ooc. I'd imagine there would still be some less reasonable people who would find it upsetting. Though if it were me I'd probably try to come up with an ic reason like she had been glamour and just changed back. I just feel explaining something like that is easier to explain ic than to have to explain to anyone who knew her that she had always been elezen.

 

Though the most important thing to me is to play the race you like most.

[Noirelle]

Well isn't this a fine mess. 

 

One, I'm looking for alternatives that don't touch up on IC things like fantasia, magic etc etc. What I have in mind over the course of lunch, was to just tell everyone hey she was Elezen all along or rather. She's always been elezen but now I think that's kind of messy in itself.

 

*Starts to chant : Their animations are lanky, their animations are lanky, their animations are awkward, their animations are lanky. Be the bestlander. Be the midlander. Repeat.*

 

But yeah I'm also asking this in the event the next patches throw it all tits up. Say there's an Oirellain that is blatantly wildwood and all. So I want to be prepared without having to lose my character in her entirety. Though Sounsyy did say it was possible a Midlander family can carry X House's name under the pretense of loyal service and stuff, just don't know how many would buy that plot of land.

[Lydia Lightfoot]

Questions:

 

1. Do you have a group of players you normally roleplay with (a "core group")? If so, then they're the ones you need to convince first, because they're the ones who are probably the most important to you. Have a personal chat with each of them and figure out if they have objections, and if they do, see what understanding you can come to together. If they all are game to play along with whatever you have in mind, then...

 

2. Outside of your normal group, are there a lot of other players whose characters you've interacted with to any great extent? If no, then you're good to go, because the change won't really impact anybody else besides the core group anyways if that's the case. If yes, though, then...

 

3. Of those not in your core group who you identified that you've had a lot of exposure to when considering #2, do you care if any of those players were to decide to stop doing RP with you based on what you decide to do? If no, then you're good to go, because if they don't like it then oh well for them. If yes, then you'll want to treat those players as if they're effectively a part of your core group, in which case you probably want to have a personal chat with them and make sure it isn't going to cause problems.

 

As far as anybody else not addressed by the above - such as me, for example... My character hasn't met yours anyway, so a change you might make will have no impact. She was Elezen all along? Well, I won't ever have met her prior to her being Elezen, so... no problem there at all, yeah? 

 

In other words, if the questions 1, 2, and 3 don't identify somebody as someone whose opinion should matter, then their opinion doesn't matter.

[Noirelle]

Questions:

 

1. Do you have a group of players you normally roleplay with (a "core group")? If so, then they're the ones you need to convince first, because they're the ones who are probably the most important to you. Have a personal chat with each of them and figure out if they have objections, and if they do, see what understanding you can come to together. If they all are game to play along with whatever you have in mind, then...

 

2. Outside of your normal group, are there a lot of other players whose characters you've interacted with to any great extent? If no, then you're good to go, because the change won't really impact anybody else besides the core group anyways if that's the case. If yes, though, then...

 

3. Of those not in your core group who you identified that you've had a lot of exposure to when considering #2, do you care if any of those players were to decide to stop doing RP with you based on what you decide to do? If no, then you're good to go, because if they don't like it then oh well for them. If yes, then you'll want to treat those players as if they're effectively a part of your core group, in which case you probably want to have a personal chat with them and make sure it isn't going to cause problems.

 

As far as anybody else not addressed by the above - such as me, for example... My character hasn't met yours anyway, so a change you might make will have no impact. She was Elezen all along? Well, I won't ever have met her prior to her being Elezen, so... no problem there at all, yeah? 

 

In other words, if the questions 1, 2, and 3 don't identify somebody as someone whose opinion should matter, then their opinion doesn't matter.

 

Well I guess I don't have THAT much worry about with these criteria. The handful I've rp'd with already have tasted both flavors really so transitioning isn't going to be too much a hassle. 

 

Then again there's this whole upcoming expedition thing so I may have to wait until after that. And after Chachan does his smithing magic for a personal commission. 

 

It's not like I've set it in stone that I wanna be Elezen just throwing it out there. Especially since I have quite the French surname. So again the future patches might throw something that'd turn all this belly up and force me to be Wildwood. And again I want to try and stick to that forced change and the people I've met with, soon to meet.

 

Question though. Would it be wise to preempt it? Be elezen before I get screwed over. (If I do end up feeling like I wanna be elezen)

[Virella]

Personally I would just remake a character. Hells, use same background story to a degree, but tweak it to fit another race, give the char in question a lore appropriate name, because hey, midlanders don't quite run around with elezen names!

 

However, glamours as shown in the AST questline is an option as well, given the person gone from looking like a Duskwigh, to looking like a Midlander, with ease on top of that as well. It is totally possible, but lots of people would refuse to roleplay with that as well, and it still doesn't change your character to really be a Midlander.

 

I'd really go for a 2.0 version of your 'old' character. Tweak background, give her another name ect.

[Lydia Lightfoot]

It's not like I've set it in stone that I wanna be Elezen just throwing it out there. Especially since I have quite the French surname. So again the future patches might throw something that'd turn all this belly up and force me to be Wildwood. And again I want to try and stick to that forced change and the people I've met with, soon to meet.

 

Question though. Would it be wise to preempt it? Be elezen before I get screwed over. (If I do end up feeling like I wanna be elezen)

 

I don't think French names are exclusive to Elezen, but rather, indicative of an origin in Ishgard, generally (which happens to be an origin point for a great many Elezen, but not exclusively, there are also plenty of Midlanders who are from Ishgard).

 

To my understanding, there are half-breeds. Why not just say the character is half-Midlander, half-Elezen, and then if you happen to feel like switching up the wireframe model used for the character it doesn't arguably offer any change to who she is at all?

 

"Oh, haha, with my old haircut you could hardly notice the points of my ears anyway, but you can see it more easily with this new haircut."

[Noirelle]

It's not like I've set it in stone that I wanna be Elezen just throwing it out there. Especially since I have quite the French surname. So again the future patches might throw something that'd turn all this belly up and force me to be Wildwood. And again I want to try and stick to that forced change and the people I've met with, soon to meet.

 

Question though. Would it be wise to preempt it? Be elezen before I get screwed over. (If I do end up feeling like I wanna be elezen)

 

I don't think French names are exclusive to Elezen, but rather, indicative of an origin in Ishgard, generally (which happens to be an origin point for a great many Elezen, but not exclusively, there are also plenty of Midlanders who are from Ishgard).

 

To my understanding, there are half-breeds. Why not just say the character is half-Midlander, half-Elezen, and then if you happen to feel like switching up the wireframe model used for the character it doesn't arguably offer any change to who she is at all?

 

"Oh, haha, with my old haircut you could hardly notice the points of my ears anyway, but you can see it more easily with this new haircut."

 

Are you saying....be Hilda? @u@ b-but I can't be as hot as she is... @u@

[Lydia Lightfoot]

It's not like I've set it in stone that I wanna be Elezen just throwing it out there. Especially since I have quite the French surname. So again the future patches might throw something that'd turn all this belly up and force me to be Wildwood. And again I want to try and stick to that forced change and the people I've met with, soon to meet.

 

Question though. Would it be wise to preempt it? Be elezen before I get screwed over. (If I do end up feeling like I wanna be elezen)

 

I don't think French names are exclusive to Elezen, but rather, indicative of an origin in Ishgard, generally (which happens to be an origin point for a great many Elezen, but not exclusively, there are also plenty of Midlanders who are from Ishgard).

 

To my understanding, there are half-breeds. Why not just say the character is half-Midlander, half-Elezen, and then if you happen to feel like switching up the wireframe model used for the character it doesn't arguably offer any change to who she is at all?

 

"Oh, haha, with my old haircut you could hardly notice the points of my ears anyway, but you can see it more easily with this new haircut."

 

Are you saying....be Hilda? @u@ b-but I can't be as hot as she is... @u@

 

Well, you could be Hild-ish, at least, perhaps.

[Noirelle]

~Fell Cleave'd~

 

Still though wouldn't being a half-breed warrant it's own set of problems...though I suppose it's nice padding for if the Oirellain House is in fact Elezen.

 

Really I think I've made her backstory applicable to both Midlander or Wildwood so it doesn't really matter what form she takes even if she is half-bred too. Or even full-toast durr hurr hurr. At least I haven't chucked around that the Oirellain's are Elezen. Bruce can easily be a shortened Brucemont. And I haven't once stated her and her mother to be Wildwood or Midlander.

[Lydia Lightfoot]

~Fell Cleave'd~

 

Still though wouldn't being a half-breed warrant it's own set of problems...though I suppose it's nice padding for if the Oirellain House is in fact Elezen.

 

Really I think I've made her backstory applicable to both Midlander or Wildwood so it doesn't really matter what form she takes even if she is half-bred too. Or even full-toast durr hurr hurr. At least I haven't chucked around that the Oirellain's are Elezen. Bruce can easily be a shortened Brucemont. And I haven't once stated her and her mother to be Wildwood or Midlander.

 

Don't you put your cleavage in my posts!

 

But on a serious note, haha, I don't think it really presents any serious problems. There aren't even apparently the usual fantasy setting half-breed problems of racism or non-acceptance... as far as I could tell, Hilda seemed pretty accepted by everybody. Then again, I might've missed something there, or been oblivious, so... eh.

[Noirelle]

~Fell Cleave'd~

 

Still though wouldn't being a half-breed warrant it's own set of problems...though I suppose it's nice padding for if the Oirellain House is in fact Elezen.

 

Really I think I've made her backstory applicable to both Midlander or Wildwood so it doesn't really matter what form she takes even if she is half-bred too. Or even full-toast durr hurr hurr. At least I haven't chucked around that the Oirellain's are Elezen. Bruce can easily be a shortened Brucemont. And I haven't once stated her and her mother to be Wildwood or Midlander.

 

Don't you put your cleavage in my posts!

 

But on a serious note, haha, I don't think it really presents any serious problems. There aren't even apparently the usual fantasy setting half-breed problems of racism or non-acceptance... as far as I could tell, Hilda seemed pretty accepted by everybody. Then again, I might've missed something there, or been oblivious, so... eh.

 

Pretty sure everyone gave her shit. I mean the MSQuests that lead up to meeting her all detail how she's blah blah blah and no one really liked her except for mama bear dearest.

 

Okay so being half-bread may throw a wrench in her Ishgardian arc.

[Lydia Lightfoot]

Pretty sure everyone gave her shit. I mean the MSQuests that lead up to meeting her all detail how she's blah blah blah and no one really liked her except for mama bear dearest.

 

Okay so being half-bread may throw a wrench in her Ishgardian arc.

 

I guess there's the whole "the Mongrel" thing... but... my point was that as far as I can remember there isn't any indication that people's grumping about her had to do specifically with her being a half-breed. People will tend to grasp at whatever straw they can when it comes time to insult others, and so if they had other reasons for disdain towards her (and let's be fair, sassy headstrong badass women do tend to draw the ire of men who just can't handle the rawrness), it seems like taking some stabs at her heritage would just be an easy way to go. Which means that it's entirely plausible that someone else as a half-breed might not have the same reaction from others, especially if they keep their racial origin on the down-low. Basically letting others assume she's merely fully one or the other, rather than parading down the street yelling "I'M A BIG OL' HALFIE, WHAT'CHU GOT ON ME WORLD".

[Dravus]

Well, realistically half-breeds should be distrusted and disliked to varying degrees. Some people will readily accept them, of course, but it's far more interesting in my opinion - and as someone who plays a half-breed (Garlean/Midlander) - to have that potential conflict as a plot point.

 

A half-breed in Ishgard would be tolerated by the more open minded individuals but the more traditional Ishgardians would not approve - and even taking recent events into account the nation isn't going to change overnight and even if it did there would still need to be discrimination baked into your character's background if you went down that particular route.

 

A lot of role-players have the habit of treating the characters we side with in the MSQ's as ultimately representative of Eorzea as a whole. That isn't necessarily true though - because there's an immense amount of lore out there detailing how Eorzea isn't a particularly nice place.

 

...and even in the MSQ's there's a lot of hypocrisy in regards to racism/class discrimination and the like.

[Noirelle]

Pretty sure everyone gave her shit. I mean the MSQuests that lead up to meeting her all detail how she's blah blah blah and no one really liked her except for mama bear dearest.

 

Okay so being half-bread may throw a wrench in her Ishgardian arc.

 

I guess there's the whole "the Mongrel" thing... but... my point was that as far as I can remember there isn't any indication that people's grumping about her had to do specifically with her being a half-breed. People will tend to grasp at whatever straw they can when it comes time to insult others, and so if they had other reasons for disdain towards her (and let's be fair, sassy headstrong badass women do tend to draw the ire of men who just can't handle the rawrness), it seems like taking some stabs at her heritage would just be an easy way to go. Which means that it's entirely plausible that someone else as a half-breed might not have the same reaction from others, especially if they keep their racial origin on the down-low. Basically letting others assume she's merely fully one or the other, rather than parading down the street yelling "I'M A BIG OL' HALFIE, WHAT'CHU GOT ON ME WORLD".

 

Ahhh now if only I could find a nice midway point between Elezen and Midlahahaha there's no midpoint between the character models so I'll have to point that out too. Oh and given her background as a whore-for-fun among other things, people have a lot of ammunition to use against her. Ammunition I've seen only one person use aaanyways....you couple that with...

 

Well, realistically half-breeds should be distrusted and disliked to varying degrees. Some people will readily accept them, of course, but it's far more interesting in my opinion - and as someone who plays a half-breed (Garlean/Midlander) - to have that potential conflict as a plot point.

 

A half-breed in Ishgard would be tolerated by the more open minded individuals but the more traditional Ishgardians would not approve - and even taking recent events into account the nation isn't going to change overnight and even if it did there would still need to be discrimination baked into your character's background if you went down that particular route.

 

A lot of role-players have the habit of treating the characters we side with in the MSQ's as ultimately representative of Eorzea as a whole. That isn't necessarily true though - because there's an immense amount of lore out there detailing how Eorzea isn't a particularly nice place.

 

...and even in the MSQ's there's a lot of hypocrisy in regards to racism/class discrimination and the like.

 

...this guy's idea and I think that's the building blocks of someone who either has stupidly high will power or uses the sex as a form of ecstatic escapism from the pressure. 

 

Speaking of a half-breed...how exactly would that work? Midlander height and pointy ears or a really tall and lanky elezen-height with more rounded ears? Just in case the idea becomes a bit too attractive to pass up but she already carries enough stigma as it is so maybe I could shelf it for another concept.

[Lydia Lightfoot]

I dunno. I'd go on the tall end of Midlander, and short end of Elezen, either way. That way she'd end up seeming to have some of the height attribute of her origin.

[Noirelle]

I dunno. I'd go on the tall end of Midlander, and short end of Elezen, either way. That way she'd end up seeming to have some of the height attribute of her origin.

 

Yay I'm already max height middie. Hrm well anyway thanks for the brainstorming and back and forth. I'll still be fully midlander or fully elezen but I won't make that decision at least until after my expedition thing and Chachan delivers the personal Yukimitsu commission. If I'll still feel like being Elezen afterward anyway.

[Lydia Lightfoot]

Okeydokey! Glad to help.

[Valence]

From what I have gathered around the Mongrel character of the MSQ, and while there is definitely a colossal amount of racial discrimination over Eorzea (Wildwoods vs Duskwights, Uldans vs refugees or Ala Mighans, or more generally different ethnies confronted to issues and local conflicts and conveniently bringing the blame to the other one...), the Mongrel being a black sheep also has a lot to do with the social ladder situation she was in. She is the child of a noble heir and a commoner housemaid. This is a huge part of the issue, and is considered highly unproper. The fact that she shows physical traits of both races is just the visual manifestation of the "sin" her parents did. The father got away with it due to his station, and is forgiven his excesses, and the mother thrown into the street with the embarassing child.

 

The problem in very regimented societies with rigid castes is that everything that comes to threaten the social order is systematically cast out. And more importantly, everything must have its place, and remain as it is supposed to be. Something that is by definition out of that order of things, with no real existence, often tends to be equated to a non entity.

 

The Mongrel is treated exactly like that: an embarassing non entity nobody but the disenfrenchised want to deal with.

 

It can bring good RP angles I think.

[Larson]

I want to point out that quality of life for Hyur in Ishgard leaves a lot to be desired. Halfbreeds are probably even lower on the totem pole. I can't imagine Ishgardian Elezen being accepting of HALF Elezen. It's neither Hyur nor Elezen, and therefor not likely to have a pleasant existence.

 

If you look at the Mongrel, her life will pretty much be shit.