Pulse Mass Shooting (USA)

[LiadansWhisper]

7 Dead, 33 Injured in Chicago Shootings

 

... Like this is getting a bit out of hand.

 

I honestly think tragedies like this is not making it a lot easier to sympathize for the lost ones or injured ones but instead point fingers at the people who are responsible. Such as fire arms, and ethnicity and religion. But really... can't we just relax for once and not harm anyone for a very long time?

 

Chicago has a rampant crime problem, and some of the strictest gun control laws in the nation. Unfortunately they don't prevent violent criminals from obtaining guns.

[Valence]

 

 

Gun control is simply ineffective. Look at Paris and Chicago. Two cities with some of the strictest gun laws in the world. And, ironically, some of the highest number of gun related crimes in the developed world. 

 

How can that be? Gun laws protect people. 

 

Actually all they do is disarm normal citizens, which makes it hard or almost impossible for them to defend themselves while nut jobs are still able to find the weapons they need. I'd rather carry a weapon and be able to defend myself and others than only be able to hide while waiting for the cops to show up.

 

Are guns a big responsibility? Yes? Are they dangerous? Yes, when used by a person for ill intent only though. Guns are just tools after all. They do not move or fire unless a human being picks them up and uses them. They are hunks of emotionless metal. Guns are not the problem. I learned that while living in London. A city with very strict gun laws. And you know what happened while I was there? The government had to ban knives outside the home cause too many people were getting stabbed. 

 

Huh. Imagine. Nut cases simply using something else to kill someone. Humans are going to kill each other. We've been doing it for millennia.  Taking away weapons normal people can use to keep themselves safe won't fix it. This is something bigger. Something no law will fix.

 

 

Slow down a minute please.

 

That is just misinformation. I live in Paris (nearby). We don't have the amount of firearms casualties every year that the US seems to get (actually, something like 10-15 times less per inhabitant). Most of those are caused by hunting weapons when they happen, mostly in the countryside. Those are the only licensed guns besides small arms used in clubs with very strict regulation around. Those are the ones that are the most easy to obtain, and yet you need to pass a certain amount of regulation as well, but hunting is still a thing and those rifles are the most easy to get for anyone. Remove them from the equation and you would probably get even less deaths by firearms around.

 

Will this get rid of the problem in its entirety? Certainly not. But don't start making assumptions on how it's not even better in countries where gun regulations are strong, because it does make a difference (just have to check the facts/numbers really). 

 

It certainly doesn't reduce crime or violence, but it certainly reduces the stupid amount of firearm mass murders around (like, in universities and schools for one). 

 

Is it the only factor that plays into this? Certainly not. The Paris attacks (two in a year), were mounted by an organized group with the baking of ISIS, which is no small fret. Dozen of people were involved in them both, and they acted in groups, not lone individuals. Half a dozen of them if not more have been arrested if not killed since then.

 

I didn't want to answer here before knowing a bit more about the pulse killer. Did he have backup? Any network to get his hands on black market weapons like they did in France? Was he acting alone? 

 

Because you certainly can't get your hands on a AR-15 rifle (it was an AR-15 or something here right?) under strict gun regulation, just like he did, under a license. Can you by buying it from back market, or at least a more available thing like an AK? Totally. Is it easy? I don't think so, not for lone individuals.

 

I think there is a strong line to be drawn between 'common' mass shootings that we almost never see around there, and those specific kinds of scenarios when terrorism is involved.

[LiadansWhisper]

I guess you can explain that to the family of the five year old girl who got shot, then. "Sorry kid, dog eat dog out there. Should have had a gun."

 

I would honestly be more interested in finding out *why* Chicago's crime is so out of control.

[LiadansWhisper]

 

 

Gun control is simply ineffective. Look at Paris and Chicago. Two cities with some of the strictest gun laws in the world. And, ironically, some of the highest number of gun related crimes in the developed world. 

 

How can that be? Gun laws protect people. 

 

Actually all they do is disarm normal citizens, which makes it hard or almost impossible for them to defend themselves while nut jobs are still able to find the weapons they need. I'd rather carry a weapon and be able to defend myself and others than only be able to hide while waiting for the cops to show up.

 

Are guns a big responsibility? Yes? Are they dangerous? Yes, when used by a person for ill intent only though. Guns are just tools after all. They do not move or fire unless a human being picks them up and uses them. They are hunks of emotionless metal. Guns are not the problem. I learned that while living in London. A city with very strict gun laws. And you know what happened while I was there? The government had to ban knives outside the home cause too many people were getting stabbed. 

 

Huh. Imagine. Nut cases simply using something else to kill someone. Humans are going to kill each other. We've been doing it for millennia.  Taking away weapons normal people can use to keep themselves safe won't fix it. This is something bigger. Something no law will fix.

 

 

Slow down a minute please.

 

That is just misinformation. I live in Paris (nearby). We don't have the amount of firearms casualties every year that the US seems to get (actually, something like 10-15 times less per inhabitant). Most of those are caused by hunting weapons when they happen, mostly in the countryside. Those are the only licensed guns besides small arms used in clubs with very strict regulation around. Those are the ones that are the most easy to obtain, and yet you need to pass a certain amount of regulation as well, but hunting is still a thing and those rifles are the most easy to get for anyone. Remove them from the equation and you would probably get even less deaths by firearms around.

 

Will this get rid of the problem in its entirety? Certainly not. But don't start making assumptions on how it's not even better in countries where gun regulations are strong, because it does make a difference (just have to check the facts/numbers really). 

 

It certainly doesn't reduce crime or violence, but it certainly reduces the stupid amount of firearm mass murders around (like, in universities and schools for one). 

 

Is it the only factor that plays into this? Certainly not. The Paris attacks (two in a year), were mounted by an organized group with the baking of ISIS, which is no small fret. Dozen of people were involved in them both, and they acted in groups, not lone individuals. Half a dozen of them if not more have been arrested if not killed since then.

 

I didn't want to answer here before knowing a bit more about the pulse killer. Did he have backup? Any network to get his hands on black market weapons like they did in France? Was he acting alone? 

 

Because you certainly can't get your hands on a AR-15 rifle (it was an AR-15 or something here right?) under strict gun regulation, just like he did, under a license. Can you by buying it from back market, or at least a more available thing like an AK? Totally. Is it easy? I don't think so, not for lone individuals.

 

I think there is a strong line to be drawn between 'common' mass shootings that we almost never see around there, and those specific kinds of scenarios when terrorism is involved.

 

They haven't said which gun he had did the most killing. AR-15s are crap at close range, so odds are he used the handgun he had.

[Virella]

Mind you, for all the EU folk going BUT THINGS ARE COOL HERE CUZ NO GUNS

 

Finland has guns. Just yeah. Go look at the statistics posted below. France, despite having no gun's allowed law, is still ranked more unsafely than Finland (or hell, the Netherlands even).

 

Guns don't make a country unsafe. People do.

 

(and for fun some US and Finland statistics as well)

 

http://www.numbeo.com/crime/rankings_by_country.jsp?title=2016®ion=150

 

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Finland/United-States/Crime

 

Btw... if the rumours are true about the shooter being of the LGBT community, I'm not remotely surprised. His father was a gay hating individual, and not to talk things right, but I could imagine the guy was probably driven by guilt about his sexuality because Islam isn't accepting of it. Got recruited by radicals, and found his way to 'paradise' to 'cleanse himself' of his sin to murder other gay folk.

 

Ib4 people go Islam is k for gay folk. Have a look here.

 

It really wouldn't surprise me if this is going to be the turn out.

[Caspar]

Mind you, for all the EU folk going BUT THINGS ARE COOL HERE CUZ NO GUNS

 

Finland has guns. Just yeah. Go look at the statistics posted below. France, despite having no gun's allowed law, is still ranked more unsafely than Finland (or hell, the Netherlands even).

 

Guns don't make a country unsafe. People do.

 

(and for fun some US and Finland statistics as well)

 

http://www.numbeo.com/crime/rankings_by_country.jsp?title=2016®ion=150

 

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Finland/United-States/Crime

 

Btw... if the rumours are true about the shooter being of the LGBT community, I'm not remotely surprised. His father was a gay hating individual, and not to talk things right, but I could imagine the guy was probably driven by guilt about his sexuality because Islam isn't accepting of it. Got recruited by radicals, and found his way to 'paradise' to 'cleanse himself' of his sin to murder other gay folk.

 

Ib4 people go Islam is k for gay folk. Have a look here.

 

It really wouldn't surprise me if this is going to be the turn out.

I could see that being true. It would be a more extreme version of a conflict many people go through. However I suspect it will not be broached as a topic in our public consciousness, as more people seem to be interested in the how and not the why, sadly.

 

This incident actually reminded me of the Brevik killing spree in Sweden more than the typical gun violence we've seen in the US in recent years, or the Port Arthur killing spree in Australia.

[Delilah Scythewood]

Okay, welp.

 

This thread was meant to be left alone when I said, more specifically on page two in my last post (note me even stating 'And to end this on a lighter note...'). I already contacted one of the mods to shut and lock this down since people are already taking this waaaaaayyyyyyy in a less then positive direction even with the best of intentions and I just woke up to a couple pages of increasing levels of vitrolic discourse.

 

This thread wasn't to talk about gun control or how shitty or not shit ours or other cities/places/countries are. It was to spread awareness about the shooting and pay some thoughts and respects to those who have fallen. You want to continue this conversation? Please take it else where.

 

Thank you.

[Aldotsk]

Okay, welp.

 

This thread was meant to be left alone when I said, more specifically on page two in my last post (note me even stating 'And to end this on a lighter note...'). I already contacted one of the mods to shut and lock this down since people are already taking this waaaaaayyyyyyy in a less then positive direction even with the best of intentions and I just woke up to a couple pages of increasing levels of vitrolic discourse.

 

This thread wasn't to talk about gun control or how shitty or not shit ours or other cities/places/countries are. It was to spread awareness about the shooting and pay some thoughts and respects to those who have fallen. You want to continue this conversation? Please take it else where.

 

Thank you.

 

While I feel like I agree with you since this is your thread that you started to show people to share their sympathies, but the thread name was quite misleading as if you wanted us to start discussion about how we feel in the shooting. You did post the rules later, but maybe you should change the thread name to more like: "Sympathizing Pulse Mass Shooting". But I shouldn't really be telling you what to do since it's your thread.

 

In threads like these, it's likely to happen that some people will bring up politics, religion, or something sensitive because the tragic news like this is not something that people will just let go easily. It's a very thin ice subject.

[Aldotsk]

I can see this thread being gone pretty soon since it's getting close to personal insults and cursing at each other. =/

[LiadansWhisper]

I can see this thread being gone pretty soon since it's getting close to personal insults and cursing at each other. =/

 

Yeahhhh.

 

Honestly, we shouldn't be denigrating people here, even if we disagree with them.

[Aldotsk]

Staying on the topic in regards to blood drive, Florida's Chik-Fil-A have offered free food and drinks for all people who have participated to donate blood in One Blood donation center. Pretty amazing that they did.

 

(Mind you, Chik-Fil-A being anti-gay is not all true. There are plenty of LGBT supporters in NYC CFA as employees and the company and the head CEO is religious, but the most chains and employees accept all customers with no discrimination. But that statement and discussion is for another thread if people want to make it as a debate.)

 

There has been plenty of chain companies that show the same sympathies too. Some people have offered free funeral service in Orlando for the tragedy.

[Nero]

Please do try to remain civil and on-topic, or else this thread will have to be locked. Posts derailing or attempting to derail the thread will be removed. Debates on other subjects should be off-site or in PMs.

[Kage]

Jet Blue is offering for immediate family members the free plane ride to Orlando as well as the flying of the body.

 

Akyra Monet Murray was the last name released. She was 18 years old from Philadelphia celebrating her high school graduation and her full ride scholarship for basketball to college with her family. She was one of those in the bathrooms, and her mom will probably remember for a long time that her last conversation with her daughter was that her daughter was losing a lot of blood.

 

Here are the names of the 49 dead whose ages range from 18 years old to 50:

Stanley Almodovar III, 23 years old

 

Amanda Alvear, 25 years old

 

Oscar A Aracena-Montero, 26 years old

 

Rodolfo Ayala-Ayala, 33 years old

 

Antonio Davon Brown, 29 years old

 

Darryl Roman Burt II, 29 years old

 

Angel L. Candelario-Padro, 28 years old

 

Juan Chevez-Martinez, 25 years old

 

Luis Daniel Conde, 39 years old

 

Cory James Connell, 21 years old

 

Tevin Eugene Crosby, 25 years old

 

Deonka Deidra Drayton, 32 years old

 

Simon Adrian Carrillo Fernandez, 31 years old

 

Leroy Valentin Fernandez, 25 years old

 

Mercedez Marisol Flores, 26 years old

 

Peter O. Gonzalez-Cruz, 22 years old

 

Juan Ramon Guerrero, 22 years old

 

Paul Terrell Henry, 41 years old

 

Frank Hernandez, 27 years old

 

Miguel Angel Honorato, 30 years old

 

Javier Jorge-Reyes, 40 years old

 

Jason Benjamin Josaphat, 19 years old

 

Eddie Jamoldroy Justice, 30 years old

 

Anthony Luis Laureanodisla, 25 years old

 

Christopher Andrew Leinonen, 32 years old

 

Alejandro Barrios Martinez, 21 years old

 

Brenda Lee Marquez McCool, 49 years old

 

Gilberto Ramon Silva Menendez, 25 years old

 

Kimberly Morris, 37 years old

 

Akyra Monet Murray, 18 years old

 

Luis Omar Ocasio-Capo, 20 years old

 

Geraldo A. Ortiz-Jimenez, 25 years old

 

Eric Ivan Ortiz-Rivera, 36 years old

 

Joel Rayon Paniagua, 32 years old

 

Jean Carlos Mendez Perez, 35 years old

 

Enrique L. Rios, Jr., 25 years old

 

Jean C. Nives Rodriguez, 27 years old

 

Xavier Emmanuel Serrano Rosado, 35 years old

 

Christopher Joseph Sanfeliz, 24 years old

 

Yilmary Rodriguez Solivan, 24 years old

 

Edward Sotomayor Jr., 34 years old

 

Shane Evan Tomlinson, 33 years old

 

Martin Benitez Torres, 33 years old

 

Jonathan Antonio Camuy Vega, 24 years old

 

Juan P. Rivera Velazquez, 37 years old

 

Luis S. Vielma, 22 years old

 

Franky Jimmy Dejesus Velazquez, 50 years old

 

Luis Daniel Wilson-Leon, 37 years old

 

Jerald Arthur Wright, 31 years old

[Zhavi]

http://imgur.com/gallery/5KFTY

faces and short descriptions of who they were to go with the names.