When joining a FC becomes a job

[Damele]

Lets face it, most people want to be a part of something. Most want to have a place they call home. Membership within a FC can and should be rewarding for all people involved. A social place to hang out, people to run content with or whatever. Then we have the APPLICATION process.  

There is nothing wrong with being selective. Why do things have to be so difficult, have to have a 4 page application that must be signed and duplicated no less that 3 times, authorized by the only 2 people never around, put to a vote, then after 5 interviews, a panel discussion and a 30 day waiting period, or application will be considered. In the Marine Corps we had a saying, " Keep it simple stupid." I can think of no better place that motto should apply than joining a FC.

 

** I edited this post because instead of just being Satire as intended I have received messages and posts from people thinking I'm bashing, pissed off, mad, upset, grumpy, irritated, mean, ect. I received an interesting message in game from what who I'm guessing is the self appointed special snowflake of FC application processes. After 5 minutes of me telling him random quotes from Journey songs he buggered off. Peoples. This is not intended to be serious... If you read anything I post IM NOT A SERIOUS PERSON!  Sena posted the best reply, using this post as intended to poke fun at the process not validate or invalidate it. Calm down and smile more, just brush your teeth first!

[Lydia Lightfoot]

Please provide 3+ (your choice) of the following:

 

[_] Hair sample

[_] Urine sample

[_] Blood sample

[_] Last year's income tax return

[_] A leg or arm of your choosing, from yourself

[_] The solution to merging general relativity with quantum mechanics

[_] Indisputable evidence of the existence of a divine power

[_] A photo of Donald Trump in a porto-potty (photoshopped not acceptable)

[_] The actual sword Excalibur with video of the Lady of the Lake handing it to you

[_] Monetary bribery

[Kailani]

I'm not sure what your exact experience was as you seem pretty fired up.

 

But as someone who ran guilds for 15 years, I can say that it's a lot easier to keep people out of your FC/guild than to deal with the drama that usually comes with removing them after the fact. It's also the responsibility of the GM/leadership to protect what they have put a lot of time and energy into creating, and to make sure every applicant actually fits since their current membership is counting on them to not bring in problem children. You'll never know for sure, even after a 30 day trial period, but GM's will do their best to screen and filter.

 

As for applications and processes, I guess the effort shown to get in by the applicant is something that most GM's see as important as well. I did. Anyone who ever joins a guild has to understand just how much goes into creating, maintaining, administrating and growing a guild. It's a thankless job for the most part, where someone puts in their (GM) free time to make sure others (members) have a fun place to spend their recreational time without worry every time they log in.

 

There are plenty of guilds out there who do not have applications and you can just /whisper someone for an invite. But if someone wants to join a specific guild because they seem to have a lot going on, seem to be popular and really well run.. it wouldn't have become that type of guild without standards.

[Damele]

I'm not sure what your exact experience was as you seem pretty fired up.

 

But as someone who ran guilds for 15 years, I can say that it's a lot easier to keep people out of your FC/guild than to deal with the drama that usually comes with removing them after the fact. It's also the responsibility of the GM/leadership to protect what they have put a lot of time and energy into creating, and to make sure every applicant actually fits since their current membership is counting on them to not bring in problem children. You'll never know for sure, even after a 30 day trial period, but GM's will do their best to screen and filter.

 

As for applications and processes, I guess the effort shown to get in by the applicant is something that most GM's see as important as well. I did. Anyone who ever joins a guild has to understand just how much goes into creating, maintaining, administrating and growing a guild. It's a thankless job for the most part, where someone puts in their (GM) free time to make sure others (members) have a fun place to spend their recreational time without worry every time they log in.

 

There are plenty of guilds out there who do not have applications and you can just /whisper someone for an invite. But if someone wants to join a specific guild because they seem to have a lot going on, seem to be popular and really well run.. it wouldn't have become that type of guild without standards.

 

 

Do you put Guild Master for 15 years on a job application or was just to impress me? Yeah I know just troll'n this one. Sorry couldn't help myself.

[Damele]

Now for my real reply. I understand what you are saying and can understand why people feel its their "job" to do such things, more power to them. Never fired up, not over a video game. Read it with a smile on your face as I did while posting it!!

 

Now as for the application used to as you put , " to understand just how much goes into creating, maintaining, administrating and growing a guild." It may be just me (and the ok!) but if someone wants to understand all that maybe they should go run a guild. I dont care what it takes to maintain, admin and the such, I care about having fun. I want to have fun thats why one should join, right? I think its great that people step up and help. Officers and GMs put in time and I appreciate them. I do agree that FC's should take who they want and as such can have any application/secret society processes they want! 

[Kismet]

Is it really fair to boil things down to "the more extensive the application process, the more ~special~ the guild creator must deem themselves and/or their creation to be"? While I'm sure there are people like that out there, the assumption that a majority of guilds with long apps have leadership who think this way is a bit harsh.

 

I understand that it's hard to find an ideal guild that suits your tastes while also having an application process that's efficient and convenient. But the whole point that Kai was trying to make is that... guild leaders (the good ones, at least) mainly do what's best for their group and their style. The way you go about applying to a guild with a tavern/cafe theme just isn't going to be the same as a guild that revolves around guerrilla warfare.

 

Some guilds NEED a lengthy app because their leadership wants you to prove that you have strong writing skills/grasp of the lore. Some guilds NEED to have an IC interview process because the guild concept may literally be a company or an employment agency... and interviewing your character makes the most sense for bringing them in. Then you have other guilds that fall somewhere in the middle of every method you can think of.

 

It's not about ego. It's just preference. I dunno what else to tell ya.

[Damele]

Is it really fair to boil things down to "the more extensive the application process, the more ~special~ the guild creator must deem themselves and/or their creation to be"? While I'm sure there are people like that out there, the assumption that a majority of guilds with long apps have leadership who think this way is a bit harsh.

 

I understand that it's hard to find an ideal guild that suits your tastes while also having an application process that's efficient and convenient. But the whole point that Kai was trying to make is that... guild leaders (the good ones, at least) mainly do what's best for their group and their style. The way you go about applying to a guild with a tavern/cafe theme just isn't going to be the same as a guild that revolves around guerrilla warfare.

 

Some guilds NEED a lengthy app because their leadership wants you to prove that you have strong writing skills/grasp of the lore. Some guilds NEED to have an IC interview process because the guild concept may literally be a company or an employment agency... and interviewing your character makes the most sense for bringing them in. Then you have other guilds that fall somewhere in the middle of every method you can think of.

 

It's not about ego. It's just preference. I dunno what else to tell ya.

 All great points and I agree with you nor do I believe that its all guilds or even a majority of them that require such things are self-involved monkeys that need a pat on the back. Again typed with a smile on my face much like Sena posted in her reply!

[John Spiegel]

Application -> OOC interview -> IC interview -> Recruit status -> time -> Full membership.

 

That's what I do. I dislike making an applicant wait for a response so my turnarounds are within 24 hours.

 

That being said, the short application and OOC interview are my gauges to see if an applicant is fit for my group. I do not and will not cater to people that don't fit with our established mojo.

 

Two options:

1. Make your own FC

2. Find another FC

 

I have directed a good bit of people away from my company just based on a few criteria since I ain't about compromise lol.

[Damele]

Application -> OOC interview -> IC interview -> Recruit status -> time -> Full membership.

 

That's what I do. I dislike making an applicant wait for a response so my turnarounds are within 24 hours.

 

That being said, the short application and OOC interview are my gauges to see if an applicant is fit for my group. I do not and will not cater to people that don't fit with our established mojo.

 

Two options:

1. Make your own FC

2. Find another FC

 

I have directed a good bit of people away from my company just based on a few criteria since I ain't about compromise lol.

This is to poke fun at the process man, not validate or invalidate it. I have filled out plenty of applications and agree with the Mojo! Nothing worse than being around people that drive you nuts or dont fit the mold you created!

[Nebbs]

Dear Damele,

 

It has been brought to our attention, via our web monitoring officer as part of our standard application background checks, that you have posted about Free Company membership process in a less than positive way. As you will be aware (because you ticked that you had read and understood our manual of rules, laws, by-laws and guidance) that you must represent the Free Company at all times, and that this includes your past, present and future web profile. 

 

We are therefore forced to class you as unsuited to our Free Company, bar you from all our events and place you on our list of banned individuals that all our members and associates must avoid, on pain of expulsion themselves. Your IP address has also been blocked from our sites.

 

We thank you for your application and wish you well in finding a Free Company to match your needs. Perhaps you should try another server or better another MMO entirely?

 

Yours,

 

Grand High Free Company Ego Tripper

 

(Disclaimer: This is a work of fiction, any and all similarities to persons and free companies living, dead or otherwise is purely a sad state of afairs)

[Nebbs]

Application -> OOC interview -> IC interview -> Recruit status -> time -> Full membership.

 

That's what I do. I dislike making an applicant wait for a response so my turnarounds are within 24 hours.

 

That being said, the short application and OOC interview are my gauges to see if an applicant is fit for my group. I do not and will not cater to people that don't fit with our established mojo.

 

Two options:

1. Make your own FC

2. Find another FC

 

I have directed a good bit of people away from my company just based on a few criteria since I ain't about compromise lol.

 

Sounds about right. I especially look for some focus on the FC culture and especially on RP from a FC application process. The process should bring in people you want, and not be focused on excluding those you don't. 

 

The recruitment process is a good indication of the FC and any process that is over 60% about what not to do is a sign that this is an oppressive FC in my experience. So buyer (applicant) beware.

[John Spiegel]

Application -> OOC interview -> IC interview -> Recruit status -> time -> Full membership.

 

That's what I do. I dislike making an applicant wait for a response so my turnarounds are within 24 hours.

 

That being said, the short application and OOC interview are my gauges to see if an applicant is fit for my group. I do not and will not cater to people that don't fit with our established mojo.

 

Two options:

1. Make your own FC

2. Find another FC

 

I have directed a good bit of people away from my company just based on a few criteria since I ain't about compromise lol.

 

Sounds about right. I especially look for some focus on the FC culture and especially on RP from a FC application process. The process should bring in people you want, and not be focused on excluding those you don't. 

 

The recruitment process is a good indication of the FC and any process that is over 60% about what not to do is a sign that this is an oppressive FC in my experience. So buyer (applicant) beware.

 

I got five rules. Rules one and three are the same. Rule five is a joke. So I got three rules, really.

 

There's a common misconception that since we all play the same game/same hobby (RP) that we're all able to play nice with a different group. That's a lazy and idealist point of view. Have your group and nourish your group. It's like any real life group of friends. There is indeed individual FC culture. Through my many travels both in the real world and in digital, I can get a good feel for someone based on their application.... such as their ability to form coherent sentences, an actual interest in the group rather than "I'm bored and need constant stimulation me me me me!" and other indicators. Couple that with a chat and blamo. It's much easier to personalize an OOC interview than to have a large application.

 

Also, I hate long apps since I'd have to read all that shit and would have no one to blame but myself.

[Damele]

Dear Damele,

 

It has been brought to our attention, via our web monitoring officer as part of our standard application background checks, that you have posted about Free Company membership process in a less than positive way. As you will be aware (because you ticked that you had read and understood our manual of rules, laws, by-laws and guidance) that you must represent the Free Company at all times, and that this includes your past, present and future web profile. 

 

We are therefore forced to class you as unsuited to our Free Company, bar you from all our events and place you on our list of banned individuals that all our members and associates must avoid, on pain of expulsion themselves. Your IP address has also been blocked from our sites.

 

We thank you for your application and wish you well in finding a Free Company to match your needs. Perhaps you should try another server or better another MMO entirely?

 

Yours,

 

Grand High Free Company Ego Tripper

 

(Disclaimer: This is a work of fiction, any and all similarities to persons and free companies living, dead or otherwise is purely a sad state of afairs)

 

NOOOOOO, I based my whole life on getting into your FC.. I left my wife and quit my job just to complete your application. I guess I will just turn my brain off and go play WoW. :cactuar:

[Damele]

Application -> OOC interview -> IC interview -> Recruit status -> time -> Full membership.

 

That's what I do. I dislike making an applicant wait for a response so my turnarounds are within 24 hours.

 

That being said, the short application and OOC interview are my gauges to see if an applicant is fit for my group. I do not and will not cater to people that don't fit with our established mojo.

 

Two options:

1. Make your own FC

2. Find another FC

 

I have directed a good bit of people away from my company just based on a few criteria since I ain't about compromise lol.

 

Sounds about right. I especially look for some focus on the FC culture and especially on RP from a FC application process. The process should bring in people you want, and not be focused on excluding those you don't. 

 

The recruitment process is a good indication of the FC and any process that is over 60% about what not to do is a sign that this is an oppressive FC in my experience. So buyer (applicant) beware.

 

I got five rules. Rules one and three are the same. Rule five is a joke. So I got three rules, really.

 

There's a common misconception that since we all play the same game/same hobby (RP) that we're all able to play nice with a different group. That's a lazy and idealist point of view. Have your group and nourish your group. It's like any real life group of friends. There is indeed individual FC culture. Through my many travels both in the real world and in digital, I can get a good feel for someone based on their application.... such as their ability to form coherent sentences, an actual interest in the group rather than "I'm bored and need constant stimulation me me me me!" and other indicators. Couple that with a chat and blamo. It's much easier to personalize an OOC interview than to have a large application.  

 

Also, I hate long apps since I'd have to read all that shit and would have no one to blame but myself.

 

I am all about GM's running the FC their way. But I have to agree that sometimes it goes overboard and does become a little oppressive. I think what makes a great FC great is the ability to allow people to be who they want to be. It is really the differences that make it interesting. But who am I to say anything, the last 3 FC I applied for I go to NOOOOO, your "that" guy from the forums. HAHAHA

[Lydia Lightfoot]

I mean... approximately 50% of US citizens voted in favor of oppressive authority, so... that kind of thing clearly appeals to a lot of people! 

 

NOTE: I've intentionally not specified sides in the above comment. Nobody should interpret it as an instigation of political debate. Whichever person you happen to like is clearly not the one I'm talking about. Just smile! 

[Aaron]

 

Lol on topic though can't say I had that problem. The FC's I've been in I was always a special case or personally invited so I never had to do any apps. But it sounds pretty much like a job interview now which depending on your time investment in the game can or can not be taken the wrong way. I know the REALLY dramatic people even get offended by it when they aren't accepted iirc

[Tyndles]

One person can truly, TRULY fuck a FC up if they really want to. Especially if it's a big company with a lot of cliques or loose friendships, so being extreme in the recruit process is important. Being SLOW is not.

 

So while It's a little frustrating, if I have to jump through hoops, I generally know the FC is worth it.

[Faye]

Because FC's can sometimes get half a dozen applications a day (and upward) and that's even after weeding out the lazy people who say "fuck this" after seeing there's an application to begin with. Because they want to make sure that out of all those applicants, you're one of the better ones, and you're serious and committed and not applying to their FC on a whim or making it one of your 30 prospects. Because a toxic person joining your FC even only briefly can cause major damage, so FC's want to do as much vetting as possible to try to ensure there's no way this happens--and there's no foolproof way, so they take any and every precaution they find useful.

 

I see you say you're joking and all, but people don't tend to make these kind of jokes unless they seriously believe in the idea at the heart of it all. One complaint here that's legitimate though is when you're application process is halted for like a week because the people needed are never online. Screw that noise.

[Sylentmana]

I keep it simple and just don't join FCs. I'm a loner by nature so even if I joined one the only thing that would change would be my chat is now filled with FC members talking to each other.

[RiniKett]

Because a toxic person joining your FC even only briefly can cause major damage, so FC's want to do as much vetting as possible to try to ensure there's no way this happens--and there's no foolproof way, so they take any and every precaution they find useful.

 

This is why I am thorough for Wayfarers. Why? I have been there. We once had no requirements, instant invites, and no structure. It was, to be frank, utter chaos and horrible horrible things.

 

But really I don't try to weed out the bad, as I don't believe that any person is, and I quote from John C. Reilly, 100% a dick, but rather I look for those who will not only fit in with others here for the current members sake but for the applicant as well. We've all been there. Applying for a guild only to make it in the guild and then go 'eeehh I think I'll keep looking.' So that's just me. I like to ensure everyone knows what kind of pool they are dipping into. Cheers : )

[C'kayah Polaali]

Because a toxic person joining your FC even only briefly can cause major damage, so FC's want to do as much vetting as possible to try to ensure there's no way this happens--and there's no foolproof way, so they take any and every precaution they find useful.

 

So much this.

 

I've never seen a FC in Final Fantasy with a particularly onerous application process. Most involve talking to an officer, which is only reasonable. We do the same, in BLACK. I've heard the application process for some endgame FCs involve things like examination of server standings, but I can understand that, considering their particular focus.

 

I've also got to add, with some amusement, that the OP should check out the application process for large corporations (guilds) in EVE Online. Many of them insist on things like screenshots of your character selection screen, so they can have proof of who all your characters are, and detailed examination of your forum posts.

[Nebbs]

"You catch more flies with honey than vinegar"  .. and isn't finding new members the reason a FC recruits?

[Kilieit]

"You catch more flies with honey than vinegar"  .. and isn't finding new members the reason a FC recruits?

 

Finding quality members (as defined by the FC's culture) who will add something to the FC as a whole with their presence. Not just finding literally anyone.

 

Way back when, my guild had a relatively long application process (read the rules, confirm you've done so, answer 3 questions, wait 1 day while the officer team reads and approves your interview, then be invited, on trial for a week or two, before promoted to full member). And honestly we got a lot of people who we just could never find for their invite on the next day - who flaked out between reading the rules and the in-person interview... or who went inactive during their trial and never got full membership.

 

But we were a tight-knit group of people who wanted to be able to rely on each other to be around and help with stuff. Bloating our roster with people who weren't that active or who didn't have time to spare for the FC wouldn't have added any value. That's why our recruitment was angled in such a way.

[BumblingSeaBiscuit]

I think it's just a matter of preference. Application methods work for some. They don't work for others. Prior to making an FC myself, I wouldn't join an FC without them having an application process. I don't think either are bad. Just have to find what suits you. 

 

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Sylentmana]

Part of me feels irritated when I see people posting invitations to join a FC then saying "go to our website to submit an application" or "contact an officer for an interview." I can't help but think, if you're the one seeking members, then why should they have to bow to you and what you want? However, I have seen how the wrong member can get in and fleece a FC for everything they've got, so I kind of understand why they have these processes.