RDM Lore Hypotheses and Discussion

[Riggy]

Here's some stuff the RDM questgiver had to say:

 

 

-RDM doesn't use ambient mana like BLM and WHM

-Sword techniques harness and amplify their spoken incantations. Their "physical form serves as an arcane accelerator", "an ingenious way of preserving their self-imposed limitations" (that is, not using ambient mana).

-Red Mages fight for those enduring violence and subjugation, a bulwark against unkind vagaries of fate

-Revolutionary Red Mages united as Crimson Duelists against the Ala Mhigan king

-Only he survived of the Crimson Duelists, they were crushed

-He never ceased fighting for Ala Mhigo's liberation and allied with the scholars of Sharlayan after hearing of the Calamity

 

The way he says it, it sounds like not all Red Mages are Crimson Duelists, that was just a group of them. And I didn't get a screen of this, but earlier he says Alisaie sought him out to learn red magic from him some time ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Apparently Red Mages took upon themselves not to use their white and black magic components to suck the planet dry of its aether, and instead make to do with their own personal aether (which implies they could use the planet's aether like any white and black  mage). How do they managed not to kill themselves, is rather vague to me right now, but it seems to hint at their technics focusing it through their blades and weapons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Presumably the same way a Thaumaturge can?

 

[Shion]

Yeah, Thaumaturges manage it. It does basically sound like channeling magic through their sword and body is what makes them stronger than a basic Thaumaturge.

[Arashin Kujqai]

I also wonder if you "need" the soul stone to perform red magic or understand it. Or is it possible you can just pick up the method on your own and the soul stone is just basically a cheat sheet of how to use spells and etc?

[Melkire]

 

Most fascinating to me is that X'ruhn tells us that survivors of the Flood from BOTH Mhach and Amdapor ended up in Gyr Abania, and by setting aside their differences brought together the techniques of the two schools to found red magic primarily for the sake of saving lives. Because their rampant abuse of ambient aether was what led to their Calamity in the first place, they disciplined themselves to draw only upon their own personal stores of aether after the fashion of thaumaturgy. It explains why Red Magic is not all-powerful; they've a limit of energy to work with. Through careful balancing of techniques and the development of new techniques -- namely the use of motion as practiced through swordplay -- they're apparently able to surpass what thaumaturges and conjurers are capable of.

 

Notable is that red mages are implied to have the know-how of accessing ambient aether, unlike common day thaumaturges. Red mages simply choose to not apply those particular techniques.

 

Hubris seems to have been their downfall as well, though, not unlike the Fist of Rhalgr. The level 50 quests implies that, as the last of the Crimson Duelists, X'ruhn might also be the last red mage barring his new pupil.

 

[Riggy]

Melkire:

 

 

I wouldn't say that X'ruhn is the last Red Mage, only the last Crimson Duelist. There's nothing saying his group was the last vestige of a thousand year old method of magic. 

 

[Shion]

The Crimson Duelists were stated to have been formed to fight Ala Mhigo's king, while Red Mages have existed since the flood calamity. I have to agree, I don't get the impression that all RDMs are Crimson Duelists. That was just a group of them.

[Valence]

I also wonder if you "need" the soul stone to perform red magic or understand it. Or is it possible you can just pick up the method on your own and the soul stone is just basically a cheat sheet of how to use spells and etc?

 

You generally require a soulstone to correctly use a job skillset. You can try without though, and depending on the job, it can end up with more or less catastrophic or awkward results (cf Black Mages).

 

I'm sure you could eventually pick up the art on your own, but keep in mind it would be like creating a full martial art in itself by yourself, and that kind of things takes many practitionners and centuries. Soulstones are repositories of memories and skills. A mentor can help you learn a new job. A soulstone can do that and at the same time impregnate you by the know how, if your understanding and base level is sufficient that is.

[Arashin Kujqai]

I also wonder if you "need" the soul stone to perform red magic or understand it. Or is it possible you can just pick up the method on your own and the soul stone is just basically a cheat sheet of how to use spells and etc?

 

You generally require a soulstone to correctly use a job skillset. You can try without though, and depending on the job, it can end up with more or less catastrophic or awkward results (cf Black Mages).

 

I'm sure you could eventually pick up the art on your own, but keep in mind it would be like creating a full martial art in itself by yourself, and that kind of things takes many practitionners and centuries. Soulstones are repositories of memories and skills. A mentor can help you learn a new job. A soulstone can do that and at the same time impregnate you by the know how, if your understanding and base level is sufficient that is.

So what of the black/white mages that took up rapiers to behold this new discipline? Does that mean their soul stones just turned or did they just pick up the technique and discipline to be a red mage based off their sheer practices in magic?

[Briggs]

Dunno, but I don't think they could just pick up a rapier and go about it. Then they'd just be a black mage... with a rapier. They're either going to need to seek a mentor, study religiously on the subject, or acquire a soulstone. 

 

Can't really hand a musket to a bard and expect them to know how to reload, clean, assemble, or maintain their gun. Sure they can pull the trigger, but that's about it. It's not about schools of magic or experience there-of, it's about technique and discipline in their respective arts.

 

EDIT: for clarification, I'm not saying an RPer couldn't go from BLM -> Red Mage... that's not an issue, I'm just saying a black mage has to learn some new tricks in the process.

[Perth]

Here to echo that X'rhun said some red mages joined the Crimson Duelists (specifically the ones with a similar sense of justice), not all. He's definitely the last Crimson Duelist, but he never said he was the last of all red mages. Big distinction.

[PhantasticPanda]

It's definitely the technique , discipline and philosophy that distinguishes them from black and white mages. Such as their self-imposed limitations they placed on themselves so they won't repeat the same mistakes of mages of old among other things.

[Briggs]

It's definitely the technique , discipline and philosophy that distinguishes them from black and white mages. Such as their self-imposed limitations they placed on themselves so they won't repeat the same mistakes of mages of old among other things.

 

unrelated but you have the cutest lalafel

[Valence]

I also wonder if you "need" the soul stone to perform red magic or understand it. Or is it possible you can just pick up the method on your own and the soul stone is just basically a cheat sheet of how to use spells and etc?

 

You generally require a soulstone to correctly use a job skillset. You can try without though, and depending on the job, it can end up with more or less catastrophic or awkward results (cf Black Mages).

 

I'm sure you could eventually pick up the art on your own, but keep in mind it would be like creating a full martial art in itself by yourself, and that kind of things takes many practitionners and centuries. Soulstones are repositories of memories and skills. A mentor can help you learn a new job. A soulstone can do that and at the same time impregnate you by the know how, if your understanding and base level is sufficient that is.

So what of the black/white mages that took up rapiers to behold this new discipline? Does that mean their soul stones just turned or did they just pick up the technique and discipline to be a red mage based off their sheer practices in magic?

 

They had to start from scratch to create a whole new art, red magic, with their knowledge of black and white magic. It probably took them many generations to elaborate and perfect the art, while slowly filling soulstones at the same time.

 

If you want a point of comparison, the only modern job is machinist. All their members (Skysteel mostly) are more or less brand new machinists, and the art is still in its infancy. The soulstones exist, but they are here only for a specific purpose, which is linking the persona with the aetherotransformer and act as a catalyst.

 

It is hard to say if those soulstones will also start to record their owner's personas and experiences, and while machinists are very rational/scientific people, maybe they won't really care about it. Otherwise though, there is nothing to my knowledge indicating that those soulstones are any different from other jobs, so I don't see why they would not start recording the same way other job's soulstones do.

 

In any case, as shown in the MCH quests, they are still inventing new things and new arts, like the turrets which are revolutionary and the latest gimmick made by Stephanivien, and just after the Gauss Barrel that he creates specifically for the WoL in the same fashion.

 

This opposed for example to jobs like Bard or Summoners, where the WoL and the NPC trainers spend their time actually hunting and rediscovering lost knowledge and technics.