discussion [SPOILERS] Stormblood MSQ + Story

[Kage]

If you aren't willing to be spoiled by anything and everything Stormblood, get out!

 

Anyone else think the WoL was awesome for saving the small group from the first -insert however Lakshmi 'tempers' here- of the immediate group.

[Gegenji]

That was actually what I was vaguely alluding to over in the Primal thread, I think? If we're talking about the same scene. Which immediately raised a question for me:

 

Is it just a WoL thing where you can put up an "anti-temper barrier" like that? Or is that something any Echo-user could learn how to do? Because if it's the latter, then it'd be super feasible to have "normal" fighters be able to take on Primals, just as long as they have a Walker (is that the term for an Echo-user in general, or just one who can specifically see other peoples' memories?) in their squads.

 

And, if true, could make the Garleans' attempts at artificially imbuing themselves with the Echo a bit more feasible. Just imbue a couple anti-Eikon defenders rather than trying to gene therapy their entire combat force.

[Virella]

Can we have a moment to discuss that Inferno mob thing? Was that a Garlean Pureblood experiment gone wrong? Because I'm sure as hell it has a third eye.

 

Also Laksmhi is such an evil shit. I love her.

[Gegenji]

Can we have a moment to discuss that Inferno mob thing? Was that a Garlean Pureblood experiment gone wrong? Because I'm sure as hell it has a third eye.

If you mean the final boss of the Castrum dungeon, all those bosses were FF6 references! Not only that, they're all enemies/bosses you find in the Magitek Research Facility, where Espers were drained of their magic in order to make Magitek Knights like Celes and Kefka. Fitting.

 

Magna Roader

 

Number 024

 

Number 124 (Recolor in Kefka's Tower is called Inferno!)

 

... So yeah, in that game I think they were all Magitek experiments, so it isn't too far of a stretch that they're the same in FFXIV. Especially considering what happened to our "friend" before the final fight in Doma Castle...

[Val]

Naruto eyes =(

[Val]

Can we have a moment to discuss that Inferno mob thing? Was that a Garlean Pureblood experiment gone wrong? Because I'm sure as hell it has a third eye.

If you mean the final boss of the Castrum dungeon, all those bosses were FF6 references!  Not only that, they're all enemies/bosses you find in the Magitek Research Facility, where Espers were drained of their magic in order to make Magitek Knights like Celes and Kefka. Fitting.

 

Magna Roader

 

Number 024

 

Number 124 (Recolor in Kefka's Tower is called Inferno!)

 

ngl all the FFVI references made me super giddy. While I loathed a few dungeons in Heavensward, I don't think there has been a single one in Stormblood I haven't enjoyed.

[Dravus]

I found myself very impressed with the MSQ's this time around. Minimal padding was a huge bonus. Lots of character development too - and world building. It was excellent to see both the protagonists and the antagonists get a decent amount of scenes explaining their motives.

 

As always, I enjoyed a lot of the fanservice too. The bosses/enemies from previous titles have already been brought up but a special mention needs to go to Hien's theme being a remix of Cyan's theme from FF6. That was a very nice touch.

 

I just hope that the patch content is just as solid - 3.0 was very strong but fizzled out. This time around, though, they appear to have left things open for a stronger continuation.

[Gegenji]

The bosses/enemies from previous titles have already been brought up but a special mention needs to go to Hien's theme being a remix of Cyan's theme from FF6.

 

OH MY GOD THIS. I swear to God, we better be able to get the song so we can play it on our Orchestrinas. The moment I heard it, I didn't believe it at first - it took me a moment. And then I made the happiest squee.

 

... Speaking of Samurai in general... it's not MSQ-related but I need to go back and see if my old discussion with Leggers was actually posted and not just in chat about how SAM would work. Because I very distinctly remember talking about having a Greased Lightning-esque stack that built up from completing combos that could be spent early to do big effects. I vaguely remember going with five stacks, with a DoT and a light/heavy single and AoE attack.

 

I felt very vindicated when I tried out SAM for the first time.

 

EDIT: Bah, I think it was chat room only. Can't seem to find it, but I definitely remember talking to Leggerless and making mention of it. But that's neither here nor there.

[Kage]

Reminder for those who didn't know Kaien = Cyan and well, you know, Doma.

 

Can we talk about how one Doma got flooded and the other was poisoned?

 

Also, Hien = Shun = Owain = Cyan's son.

 

Mina = Elayne = Mina = Cyan's wife.

 

Cyan = Kaien.

 

They gave us the JP FF6 names BUT SHUN DIDN'T DIE.

 

 

[Virella]

Oh yeah, I know! Just I don't think in 6 Inferno had that third eye? I could be wrong though. But judging from the art, he doesn't seem to have it either in FF6?

 

In any case, fuck Lyse. That was the only hamfisted shit in the MSQ I really didn't agree with. She has no experience, she's too naive ect. That really felt grossly out of place. Rest of the MSQ? Good shit.

[Val]

I found myself very impressed with the MSQ's this time around. Minimal padding was a huge bonus. Lots of character development too - and world building. It was excellent to see both the protagonists and the antagonists get a decent amount of scenes explaining their motives.

 

As always, I enjoyed a lot of the fanservice too. The bosses/enemies from previous titles have already been brought up but a special mention needs to go to Hien's theme being a remix of Cyan's theme from FF6. That was a very nice touch.

 

I just hope that the patch content is just as solid - 3.0 was very strong but fizzled out. This time around, though, they appear to have left things open for a stronger continuation.

 

I can definitely agree with all of this. The fanservice was pretty great, and while I'm usually not one to care about cheap fanservice, this felt a bit more genuine. Most of them were surprises when you came across/saw them, and it was really nice. That scorpion boss in Ala Mhigo ;-;

my childhood

 

I think this story was exceptionally well done. The villains were wonderful and getting to interact with them on and off felt great. The only scene I rolled my eyes at is after the Doman Castle dungeon where the samurai dies and he's sitting there holding the wall for ages while your party is just staring/having a normal conversation. I get they wanted it to be impactful, but it was a little silly imo.

 

Aside from that small complaint? I went into Stormblood not expecting much and very skeptical. I didn't even preorder until maybe 15 days out, but man am I glad I did. All of the changes they've made were for the better. I just hope they can keep it up.

 

Edit: And thank god those eyes are gone. Worst thing ever.

[Gegenji]

Reminder for those who didn't know Kaien = Cyan and well, you know, Doma.

 

... :frustrated:

HOW DID I MISS THAT? :lol:

 

In any case, fuck Lyse. That was the only hamfisted shit in the MSQ I really didn't agree with. She has no experience, she's too naive ect. That really felt grossly out of place. Rest of the MSQ? Good shit.

 

I think the idea was that the time in Doma was supposed to be a learning experience for Lyse. Seeing and learning from Hien, who was in a similar situation she was. Seeing how he did things, what he did, and internalizing it so when she returned to Ala Mhigo she was in a better position to become the leader of the Resistance.

 

I think this story was exceptionally well done. The villains were wonderful and getting to interact with them on and off felt great. The only scene I rolled my eyes at is after the Doman Castle dungeon where the samurai dies and he's sitting there holding the wall for ages while your party is just staring/having a normal conversation. I get they wanted it to be impactful, but it was a little silly imo.

 

Continuing my attempt at guessing the meaning of things... I totally thought that scene was supposed to be a reference to Sabin in the World of Ruin. You know, holding up A BUILDING while you went in there to save someone.

[Val]

Reminder for those who didn't know Kaien = Cyan and well, you know, Doma.

 

... :frustrated:

HOW DID I MISS THAT? :lol:

 

In any case, fuck Lyse. That was the only hamfisted shit in the MSQ I really didn't agree with. She has no experience, she's too naive ect. That really felt grossly out of place. Rest of the MSQ? Good shit.

 

I think the idea was that the time in Doma was supposed to be a learning experience for Lyse. Seeing and learning from Hien, who was in a similar situation she was. Seeing how he did things, what he did, and internalizing it so when she returned to Ala Mhigo she was in a better position to become the leader of the Resistance.

 

I think this story was exceptionally well done. The villains were wonderful and getting to interact with them on and off felt great. The only scene I rolled my eyes at is after the Doman Castle dungeon where the samurai dies and he's sitting there holding the wall for ages while your party is just staring/having a normal conversation. I get they wanted it to be impactful, but it was a little silly imo.

 

Continuing my attempt at guessing the meaning of things... I totally thought that scene was supposed to be a reference to Sabin in the World of Ruin. You know, holding up A BUILDING while you went in there to save someone.

 

It's entirely possible? And I still think the scene overall was nice, and I enjoyed it until they just kept talking and talking and talking. And then the guy gets shot and they still keep talking and talking and talking.

[Virella]

 

In any case, fuck Lyse. That was the only hamfisted shit in the MSQ I really didn't agree with. She has no experience, she's too naive ect. That really felt grossly out of place. Rest of the MSQ? Good shit.

 

I think the idea was that the time in Doma was supposed to be a learning experience for Lyse. Seeing and learning from Hien, who was in a similar situation she was. Seeing how he did things, what he did, and internalizing it so when she returned to Ala Mhigo she was in a better position to become the leader of the Resistance.

I don't know, I really felt they did a bad job at it. She did fuck all, beyond sitting in a prison for the most part and being a whiny, ignorant shit. I didn't see any character progression in her story leading up to her leadership.

 

She seems to ignorant of everything going on in Ala Mhigo. What is fine for a character who doesn't have much memory of it, but c'mon. You'd think if she was indeed with the Resistance for a while now, them, or just other Ala Mhigans would have told about how Ala Mhigo is currently. Nothing changed regarding that after the Doma arc. She was still the same naive dumb little girl.

 

Seriously, she's really not fit to be a leader. I'd hope they give the Resistance/Ala Mhigo a fitting one and Lyse goes back being with the Scions eventually.

 

Edit: I also hope Fordola continues to be a massive evil shit.

[Kage]

So who reckons itll turn out yosutsu is infact the real Yda? who some how survived and become a villian common story plot twist!

 

Me: Could you spell her name correctly or at least come up with a plausible theory?

[Gegenji]

So who reckons itll turn out yosutsu is infact the real Yda? who some how survived and become a villian common story plot twist!

 

Me: Could you spell her name correctly or at least come up with a plausible theory?

 

Especially considering you see a flashback of her childhood. In Doma. Hundreds of malls away from Ala Mhigo. And get a brief synopsis of her life up to that point which doesn't at all mention Ala Mhigo. Seriously, that theory's terrible.

[Kage]

So who reckons itll turn out yosutsu is infact the real Yda? who some how survived and become a villian common story plot twist!

 

Me: Could you spell her name correctly or at least come up with a plausible theory?

 

Especially considering you see a flashback of her childhood. In Doma. Hundreds of malls away from Ala Mhigo. And get a brief synopsis of her life up to that point which doesn't at all mention Ala Mhigo. Seriously, that theory's terrible.

And her entire plot is the fact that she hates Domans cause her 'family' treated her like utter garbage and so did all the other Domans she encountered. She grew up with Domans... not doing shit in Ala Mhigo.

[Gegenji]

A far more viable theory could be that Yda could've been captured by the Garleans. If she was an Echo-user, she could've even been the starting point for the whole artificial Echo gene therapy thing that we see going on. Possibly still kept in one of those tubes like Krile was in. Maybe mind-altered to be an enemy to fight later too, given the lack of scruples the Garlean bio-science division seems to have... but even that's stretching just to have Yda alive for some dramatic reveal of it later.

 

... That said, if that actually does end up being a thing that happens, I'm going to point back to this post and say "called it" with a laugh of disbelief.

[Kage]

I still can't believe that a gunblade is a lever.

[Nero]

blah blah list review and stuff ahead. wall of text is spoiler'd.

 

 

Pros:

 

-The story focus is tighter. Unlike Heavensward where the story kind of awkwardly meandered between the Dragonsong War, Ul'dah (ugh), and the Ascians, this one focused exclusively on revolution, and most every MSQ contributed to that goal in some way.

 

-The side characters are pretty good. Special mentions go to Hien, Yotsuyu, Fordola, Gosetsu, and the Xaela.

 

-The pacing is a lot better. Unlike Thordan the Insane, there is clear, unambiguous build-up to Zenos being the last foe, and Shinryu's presence is foreshadowed. And unlike Nidhogg who dies halfway through Heavensward's MSQ, the villain of the revolution actually ends up being the villain of the revolution.

 

-In general, the dialogue is better, especially since they dropped a lot of the archaic english (although still use "succor" for some reason, ugh)

 

-The Scions have more opportunities to show off their individual personalities, and in general have better characterisation.

 

-There's less padding. Still a good amount of padding, mind, but less of it.

 

-Fordola was a good secondary antagonist. Even if she couldn't beat the WoL in single combat, she still felt like a fairly significant threat, and she was a great portrayal of the "loyalist" living in an oppressive regime.

 

-The music was very hit and miss at times, but it leaned more good than bad.

 

Cons:

 

-Zenos was a boring villain. Every time he's on screen he's twirling his mustache about the Hunt and MY CUP RUNNETH OVER and it's just annoying. The only time they really get into his character is at the very end after Shinryu. He has exactly one note, and he keeps pushing it over and over again. His whole shtick was to make the Warrior of Light hate him so that the WoL would feel the same bloodlust that Zenos felt, but I don't think it worked here.

 

-The bulk of Yotsuyu's character is revealed in an exposition dump at the end of Doma Castle. That was very melodramatic.

 

-Lyse's presence was, in the end, completely pointless and the idea that Stormblood was some kind of coming-of-age story for her is just very silly. The fact that she doesn't really have a character arc and the fact that she doesn't really achieve anything makes her presence superfluous. Conrad might as well have made a nearby rock the leader of the Resistance.

 

-There are a lot of little minor moments that make me scratch my head. For example, Yotsuyu stomping on that little fishing village with a single bodyguard. I get that she takes pleasure in oppressing Domans, but as acting viceroy does she really not have better shit to do? Also, with only a single bodyguard (and said bodyguard guarded by plot armor) she really should have been in way more danger.

 

-Gosetsu's "death" was originally going to be in the "pro's" section, but SQUARE ENIX, YOU HAVE NO BALLS. WHAT THE FUCK. Way to completely RUIN a good moment by bullshit handwaving away his and Yotsuyu's survival. How did he survive getting shot three times!? How did Yotsuyu survive getting slashed across the body by Hien!? How did they survive a castle getting dropped on them!? Because....that kind of kills most people!

 

-And almost exactly like Heavensward, all victory was achieved with no significant setbacks. no compromise, no sacrifice, and ultimately no effort. Gosetsu lives. Y'shtola gets slashed and lives. Alisaie gets slashed and lives. Krile gets kidnapped and experimented on and presumably drained of some kind...and lives. The only named characters who die are Conrad and Zenos, of all people. Fuck, even that farmer punk from Namai survives. There are no consequences for anyone whatsoever. No permanent injuries or psychological damage or anything of any kind. Honestly, none of that shit should have even happened at all if you weren't willing to commit to it, because then it just becomes pointless, drawn-out melodrama. Again, I'm not expecting Game of Thrones level of death, but at the end of the day, this is some seriously saccharine Care Bear garbage.

 

-The characterisation of Ala Mhigo is just way weaker than the characterisation of Doma, because they put the majority of Ala Mhigo on Lyse, of all people, who is about as compelling as a cardboard cutout. Doma was riding on characters like Hien, Gosetsu, Yugiri, and the plight of the normal people is heavily emphasised. Ala Mhigo barely gives the time of day to Conrad, M'naago, and the regular Ala Mhigan Joes whom we're supposed to be freeing. Meffrid was pretty good but he dies at the very beginning anyway so who cares. Whereas Doma gets a varied depiction, the audience is expected to care about Ala Mhigo solely because Lyse cares. And that's terrible.

 

--

 

As the final verdict, I'm torn. On the one hand, it's easy to tell that Stormblood is functionally better than ARR and Heavensward in terms of MSQ.

 

On the other hand, we've also emphatically learned that Square Enix is very "one steps forward, two steps back" about their narrative writing.

 

Lyse just did not work as a character and she dragged the story way more than she carried it.

 

Gosetsu surviving did way more damage than it initially appears. That moment revealing he survived at the end single-handedly killed any sense of tension or drama that the future story could possibly hold, because now we know for certain that Square Enix is just going to give every character bullshit plot armor, and the only characters who will die will be paper-thin nobodies like Conrad, or people like Moenbryda who are introduced for exactly one patch just to die at the end.

 

6/10.

 

[LiadansWhisper]

-Zenos was a boring villain. Every time he's on screen he's twirling his mustache about the Hunt and MY CUP RUNNETH OVER and it's just annoying. The only time they really get into his character is at the very end after Shinryu. He has exactly one note' date=' and he keeps pushing it over and over again. His whole shtick was to make the Warrior of Light hate him so that the WoL would feel the same bloodlust that Zenos felt, but I don't think it worked here.[/quote']

 

He was very two-dimensional without a single redeeming quality. That made it very hard to care overly much about him, except to be annoyed when he strolled idly off and we somehow weren't able to catch him.

 

-The bulk of Yotsuyu's character is revealed in an exposition dump at the end of Doma Castle. That was very melodramatic.

 

It also didn't make me give a shit about her "motivations." They were so shallow - she was just an awful person.

 

-There are a lot of little minor moments that make me scratch my head. For example, Yotsuyu stomping on that little fishing village with a single bodyguard. I get that she takes pleasure in oppressing Domans, but as acting viceroy does she really not have better shit to do? Also, with only a single bodyguard (and said bodyguard guarded by plot armor) she really should have been in way more danger.

 

She had other guards there. If you approached after the initial cutscene, but before you go to rescue Gosetsu, there are Garlean NPCs in the town itself. Additionally, there were supposed to be unseen-but-present Kojiin of the Red.

 

-Gosetsu's "death" was originally going to be in the "pro's" section, but SQUARE ENIX, YOU HAVE NO BALLS. WHAT THE FUCK. Way to completely RUIN a good moment by bullshit handwaving away his and Yotsuyu's survival. How did he survive getting shot three times!? How did Yotsuyu survive getting slashed across the body by Hien!? How did they survive a castle getting dropped on them!? Because....that kind of kills most people!

 

This was honestly my biggest gripe. The scene where Gosetsu "died" had me in tears. I really felt that. THEN IT WAS ALL FOR NOTHING. It just...it just cheapened the entire scene. :-\ Very disappointing.

 

Krile gets kidnapped and experimented on and presumably drained of some kind...and lives.

 

And, the text of Zenos talking about Krile after they've taken her captive suggested to me that she was going to end up tortured or something. But, nope - they just stuck her in a weird void ark-esque box and drained her aether or...something.

 

Gosetsu surviving did way more damage than it initially appears. That moment revealing he survived at the end single-handedly killed any sense of tension or drama that the future story could possibly hold, because now we know for certain that Square Enix is just going to give every character bullshit plot armor, and the only characters who will die will be paper-thin nobodies like Conrad, or people like Moenbryda who are introduced for exactly one patch just to die at the end.

 

I just...am really mad about that. lol. I really loved Gosetsu, and I still think the character is awesome, but...his death was supposed to hurt. I just felt tricked, tbh.

[Virella]

I'm glad Zenos was just a psycho, instead of being another motive behind it.

 

I agree Yotsuyu motivation was awful. Sure she was treated like shit, but doesn't justify her actions. I could have understood it if she just wanted revenge on her family, but she just continued.

 

Fordola is amazing as well though. I love how brainwashed she is by the Garleans.

 

All in all, I sort of like the villains? They didn't get redeemed so far after all. Yotsuyu and Fordola might in the end though, but I hope they won't.

[Kage]

I mean, basically it's

 

I'm more interested in Fordola. She seems to be under the complete impression that she was doing the right thing (ends justifies the means) whereas Yotsuyu was just incredibly selfish and hated all domans for what her 'family' did to her.

[Zhavi]

I mean, basically it's

 

I'm more interested in Fordola. She seems to be under the complete impression that she was doing the right thing (ends justifies the means) whereas Yotsuyu was just incredibly selfish and hated all domans for what her 'family' did to her.

 

She also mentioned a pleasure district in that long ass monologue. It stuck with me because it was so ... out of place? Like she went from one husband to a second, but uhh...it didn't really make sense, but it kinda added overall.

 

The impression I got from her though wasn't just that it was her family. It was everyone. She was getting abused and everyone knew it and turned a blind eye. The village, anyone she tried to get help from. They all just told her to grin and bear it. And while it does read like cheap characterization, I kinda wonder if maybe this isn't a stock villain character in Japanese literature? You know, where the character isn't really a character so much as a moral representation for something else. Would maybe help explain why she's so flat.

 

BUT I DUNNO MUCH ABOUT JAPANESE LITERATURE, LOL. So like as not I'm way off base.

 

 

 

Anyways, I think the things I'm most hyped about are Azim Steppes, and that Gyr Abanian architecture. Ugh, all that Moorish influence (and hints of Ottoman?) makes me drool. Like, man, the MSQ has its flaws and I don't even care. Too busy staring at the pretties.

 

 

 

 

Also Gosetsus death scene was way over contrived. Like this dude is holding up a roof and everyone is taking five minutes to tearfully express how much they love him. It stole the realism and urgency from the scene, and I rolled my eyes so hard because what started out as a gut wrenching scene became 'wow, we're taking turns telling him this while he's struggling to hold up this roof?' like I dunno, I g et he's strong and all but like if he had the strength to hold it up for that long it s eems like they could've figured something out to ... yeah.

 

I get it leads to a SURPRISE HE'S ALIVE thing later, but imo it would have been way more heartwrenching if they all had to leave before finishing up those final last words.

 

BUT OMG THE STEPPES. So many fucking references. I don't like what they did with the Naadam, because imo the real life version with the games is way cooler, but all the food bits, the hospitality, the pastoral nomadism tidbits, the meat dishes!! -- everything! I love it all so much I could do an entire expansion focused around the steppes.

 

Also wtb Ala Mhigo housing pretty please.

[V'aleera]

I'm more interested in Fordola. She seems to be under the complete impression that she was doing the right thing (ends justifies the means) whereas Yotsuyu was just incredibly selfish and hated all domans for what her 'family' did to her.

 

I'm of the opposite mind. I found Fordola to be an intolerable hypocrite who tried to wrap up her innate selfishness and brutality in a facade of "altruism". Yotsuyu on the other hand was an absolute monster, but she was entirely honest about it. The world and everyone in it treated her like shit and when the tables were turned she responded in kind.

 

Also, I think the entire narrative around Lyse would have flowed way better if they had just left Yda as Yda and let Minfilia be the lead character.