Cliche RP Elements

[Shofie]

I don't mind miqo'te harems at all, in fact, I kinda dig that a game actually has an outlet for what is, or at least what should be in most cases, a healthy type of polyamoury. 

 

That is, most miqo'te are aware they are non-monogamous, and everyone's on board and comfortable with everything. Now, it doesn't always play out that way, but the option is there. Really, most of the lore surrounding miqo'te is how their tribes function for sexual purposes, so naturally a lot of the people roleplaying one are going to touch on this at some point.

[Shofie]

I don't mind miqo'te harems at all, in fact, I kinda dig that a game actually has an outlet for what is, or at least what should be in most cases, a healthy type of polyamoury. 

 

That is, most miqo'te are aware they are non-monogamous, and everyone's on board and comfortable with everything. Now, it doesn't always play out that way, but the option is there. Really, most of the lore surrounding miqo'te is how their tribes function for sexual purposes, so naturally a lot of the people roleplaying one are going to touch on this at some point.

[Shofie]

I don't mind miqo'te harems at all, in fact, I kinda dig that a game actually has an outlet for what is, or at least what should be in most cases, a healthy type of polyamoury. 

 

That is, most miqo'te are aware they are non-monogamous, and everyone's on board and comfortable with everything. Now, it doesn't always play out that way, but the option is there. Really, most of the lore surrounding miqo'te is how their tribes function for sexual purposes, so naturally a lot of the people roleplaying one are going to touch on this at some point.

[Mithril Specs]

Don't mind me plugging in my two cents about the whole clichés thing~ I'd say that in general a lot of stuff that's seen as overdone and such can be done well when it's written right. There's the whole thing with nothing being one-hundred percent original anymore, after all. Though I gotta admit that there's a couple things that make me roll my eyes, too.

 

There's those characters that have a really shitty past , or are on the run from someone, or, hell, both and still they just confide in the first person they meet. And by that I mean pretty much reciting their whole backstory to them, even if they'd have a good reason to be wary of strangers. Well...that and who does that in a casual conversation?

 

Well and in the time I've been writing, I've stumbled over writers that are just desperate to have a "badass" character more often than I even wanna count. Nothing wrong with having a strong and capable character, else me saying this would be very hyprocritical, but when half their description is pretty much "yeah, my character can beat up all of your characters" aaaaand the age old "they'll so kill yours when they get mad!" then it's just...cringeworthy.

 

At least it's mostly very young writers that step right into these pitfalls, I find. I had to grow out of my own 2edgy phase as well, so I know this too well.

[Verad]

Clichés are okay and I want as many of them as possible. I find my RP more rewarding and in greater quantity when I work with a cliché - and conniving, two-bit merchant with an eccentric business sense definitely counts - than when I split my mind in half trying to come up with something really unusual. Even when I pull it off, the RP is limited because only a bare handful of people are actually willing to engage.

 

I care not for the clichés that others feel are overdone. Instead, I want to know when you've done something you knew to be common as hell and people loved it.

[Gaspard]

Well I consider Cliche RP elements can be grating, but it often depends on the context and how the Character is played, in my opinion.

 

View it this way, there's a place for nearly every character concept, aslong it is executed in the right fashion. TV Series and Literature always makes use of some cliches or, more applicably, Tropes that shove characters in a certain function/direction etc.

 

In the end, there's no such thing as 'originality' anymore, since a point can be made that somewhere, someone has already done it, written it, or played it (South park had a fun prank on that in that 'The Simpsons did it' episode). That is however from a pure storytelling perspective.

 

When it comes to secular RP elements, It's often just the exposure of it that can become grating. If you've got one or two guys having been possessed by a demonic spirit, that's fine. If twenty characters end up possessed, it can become..painful to hear. It kind of prompts this 'been there, done that' sigh. On the other hand, even such cliches and tropes can be flipped/twisted to make something viable out of it. For example, if by chance you end up with various demonic possessed people, that might prompt someone to create hunters in order to prosecute them, or exorcists.

 

Also ,a few others have raised the following point aswell ; Cliche's aren't bad in itself. It's about the Execution and player behind it to make it work. Using a Cliche to be a special snowflake / for attention reasons is bad (I'm an Orphan, feel pity with me), using it for story driven narrative can be good. (I'm an Orphan, that's why I constantly seek family)

[Tiergan]

I am with Gaspard in that its all about execution. One of my favorite people to RP with managed to take one of the most cliche 'immortal regenerating angry deadly anti-hero with tragic past' character concepts known to man in WoW and nail it in a way that everyone on our server accepted as awesome and badass. The execution of the concept felt really raw and believable - though admittedly the WoW universe lets you grt away with a lot of stuff just from the setting alone.

 

It also helped that he was goddamn terrifying in PVP and won almost every duel he wound up in even undergeared. :V

[Verad]

There is no "right fashion." There is no "done well." The terms are so subjective as to be functionally meaningless, and easily replaced with "in a style that I prefer," which would at least be more accurate.

[Jana]

Also: Extremely nice guy cat who does unspeakably sick things behind closed doors.

 

Guilty.

 

That was my Tera character, whom I often have to remind myself I'm not playing in FFXIV...

[Gaspard]

Not exactly true. While in general, yes, it is subjective, but there's a clear difference between a player having those tropes/cliches as they simply 'fit' his character, and a roleplayer simply using said cliches to dramatic effect/ to add to their attention.

[Verad]

Not exactly true. While in general, yes, it is subjective, but there's a clear difference between a player having those tropes/cliches as they simply 'fit' his character, and a roleplayer simply using said cliches to dramatic effect/ to add to their attention.

 

There is no reason any one thing "fits" a character, and I have yet to be convinced that desiring attention is somehow intrinsically negative.

[Faye]

Copying on another person's ideas (silly ones at that) or displaying typical Mary-Sueish or attention-seeking behavior is not by any stretch the same thing as a cliche. And ancient as it is, it seems like the original post is more focused on calling out certain people, even if unnamed, for their role-play rather than discussing cliches.

 

But at any rate, I love cliches. I'm all about cliches. I embrace them. I hate when people go to great lengths to avoid cliches in their character's design. They'll either end up with a flat, boring, and unrelatable character, or they'll end up with the "I'm so unique and different" anti-cliche character which has in itself become a cliche (or about a dozen of them) of its own. It's all about the execution. Good writers make cliches seem like wondrous things that make us wonder why they're taboo. Bad writers make us cringe and grimace and feel like we never want to see another cliche in our lives. Cliches aren't inherently bad, there's just bad writing and then there's good writing.

 

Editing to add: For my usual rant on the subject, so long as no one's doing something harmful, there's no reason to get mad at others for "seeking attention." The only reason to be notably upset about it is if there's some jealousy in that you want the attention they're receiving. That being said if you don't like someone's antics to acquire attention, the best route is to simply ignore them and don't give them the attention they desire. If you see someone drama whoring it up in RP, roll your eyes and find someone else to RP with if it bothers you.

[FreelanceWizard]

Holy thread necro, Batman.

 

IMO, clichés get, well, cliché when their execution is poor -- and by that I mean when they don't inform the character at all and exist in a narrative void. Consider the classic trope of an orphan. It's cliché when a character is an orphan and that has no effect on the character at all except to be casually mentioned in conversation. It's awesome where the circumstances and consequences of that event affect the character, and when you hear, "I'm an orphan," IC from that character (preferably in a plausible context), you say, "Ah! That ties some of your actions and behaviors together. It makes sense."

 

...And I guess all that comes back to writing quality, I suppose.

 

Also, I've got to agree that Sueism, while it can involve clichés, doesn't need to have them. It's more of an OOC mentality that manifests in both IC and OOC behaviors, IMO.

[Vysce the Lad]

Ohhh jeeze... my characters are SUPER cliche though. I'd like to think I pull it off well. Normally when I start any mmo, I am too excited to research the lore beforehand and make my main have amnesia. It's hilariously overdone, and I know it. I will say though, the rp has been really, really good. Maybe I was lucky enough to run into some fantastic rpers to help me play it out. A story can seldom be woven well with only one person of course. As it happens, my character had a mini-event with friends wherein it was explained why he lost his memories and then another rper was able to use his power over the Elementals to summon his memory back. It really was a beautiful moment.

 

Honestly I really like the orphan route too. You have to wonder why Disney kills off one or both parents of the main protagonist. It causes inner strife and a need to prove themselves. Parents are a child's safety net and it causes a void in the son or daughter when they are estranged or pass away. Then all their decisions and consequences are fully on them. It's dramatic and brings out some good story-telling if you can do it right. Plus, with that big war wherein a giant dragon came out of a moon and laid siege to the world, you might have more than a handful of characters that have lost a large number of family members. The orphan angle might be over-used, but I like to think it is legit most of the time.

[TheLastCandle]

My main is probably a bundle of cliches: he's an elven (okay, elezen) ranger, a knight in exile, an example of the "noble savage" (albeit as an adopted role) -- but more importantly, he's fun. I have fun playing him, and those I play with seem to find him entertaining enough to continue to roleplay with me. My advice to anyone would be to worry less about being seen as a cliche, and just.. play the character you want to play and have fun where you can find it.

[Kellach Woods]

Pretty much what I think.

 

Are people not going to like Kellach due to his effeminate beefcake (as... beefy as a Midlander can get - which I admit isn't much) look? Yeah. I've actually been told as much in the Quicksand when I was experimenting with some looks.

 

Am I going to care about it? Kind of a bit. It sucks to be dismissed instantly because someone makes assumptions, but I have found a kickass group to RP with so why should I let it bother me?

 

Excuse me, I'll go cry in a corner about this very topic to invalidate everything else I've said.

[Myxie Tryxle]

Orson Scott Card covers this notion of cliches rather extensively in his books on writing. In his description, cliches are essentially like putting your writing on cruise control. Whatever you're doing in the story, most beginning writers will run with the first thing that comes to mind, which almost by definition will be the cliche, the easiest or most common possibility.

 

What he suggests is recognizing that your first instinct is likely the cliche and considering it for a moment. If it's too easy, try to come up with another answer or add an interesting twist to the cliche that's less common. Cliches aren't necessarily bad, they just need a little work to be interesting. And if you can't come up with a more interesting yet still believable solution, it's not a bad thing to go with the cliche once in a while. The cliche is a cliche because it makes the most sense.

 

I also feel like it's inevitable based on the experience level of the writer or RPer in question. It takes a while to mature from the notion of "how awesome is my character" to "how interesting is my character?" Making interesting characters is always awesome, since interesting characters must overcome conflict. Making awesome characters is very rarely interesting, because awesome characters bypass conflict.

[Verad]

I also feel like it's inevitable based on the experience level of the writer or RPer in question.  It takes a while to mature from the notion of "how awesome is my character" to "how interesting is my character?" 

 

And then further to reach, "How awesome and interesting is my character?"

[Eva]

It's a strange thing, looking back on something written over four years ago and disagreeing with oneself.  While I think the topic is interesting, I think I would have preferred to see a new thread created to discuss it rather than one that hasn't seen an update in so many years.

 

 

...it seems like the original post is more focused on calling out certain people, even if unnamed, for their role-play rather than discussing cliches.

I'm inclined to agree.  While I'm sure my overall aim at that time was perhaps towards steering a then-much-smaller RP community from what many at the time would have considered to be somewhat self-destructive styles of RP.  I also think many of us back then were a lot more comfortable with one another and sharing experiences about our own personal backgrounds with RP.  In short, four years ago I posted more often and didn't feel a need to censor myself so much as I do lately.  So I admit this is a bit humbling, or a bit humiliating.  Or a bit of both maybe.  The community has grown.  I have grown.  A lot happens over four years, and the landscape now is much different than it was then.

 

Now the community is much larger.  There is a greater pool of RPers and the likelihood of similar-minded folk coming together is greater.  My style isn't for everyone.  Just as other peoples' style isn't for me.  Most can find a group here that they mesh well with though, and that's what's important.

 

As others have said, pretty much everything can be boiled down and called cliché and I recognize this in my own characters as well.  I don't really have much else I wish to add beyond that.  I also think Myxie's post is extremely throught-provoking and I hope many RPers truly read it and give it thought.  Thank you for sharing!

[OttoVann]

Jeez I wonder if I am a bunch of cliches.

 

Did I do bad senpai ;__;

[Delilah Scythewood]

Jeez I wonder if I am a bunch of cliches.

 

Did I do bad senpai ;__;

 *huggles*

 

Anyway, on topic, I feel like it varies. Though one of the things I read while glancing over the thread is the whole concept of someone having a good, original idea, and then others jumping on the bandwagon BECAUSE it's so awesome. I tend to avoid this happening or people jumping on my metaphorical bandwagon but keeping many of my character's abilities secret. Some of the cooler things they can do I don't openly RP or reveal save to a select few. Tends to dwindle that down.

[Seriphyn]

Kale has plentiful cliches, could be said to be a gritty, no-nonsense, down-to-earth male protagonist straight out of contemporary Western action franchises.

 

However, since that type of male character seems to lack favour in a Japanese MMO, it's not immediately obvious. I like to parade him as unique since he's ordinary and doesn't follow the anime/manga inspiration of a lot of male characters in the community, but really, he just takes a different set of cliches/tropes.

[ArmachiA]

Don't feel bad if you are the cliche. Every character ever has some aspect of cliche about them. Doesn't hurt to talk about common tropes though.

[Ermine]

Don't feel bad if you are the cliche. Every character ever has some aspect of cliche about them. Doesn't hurt to talk about common tropes though.

 

This! Tropes thrive and grow and continue because they're familiar - kind of like a hamburger, if you order one from a restaurant, you kind of have an idea of what you're getting.

 

But, it's the touches that make it yours, what make it special: knowing what tropes your character fall into is helpful, too, because then you can find those stories with characters LIKE that, see how those characters are presented, and get ideas for how you'd like yours to seem.

 

(to throw myself on this sword: My attached character, I'd consider to fall under the "Lady of Adventure" trope - so if I wanted, I could read in a bit more of other characters, see how their stories unfold, etc.)

 

I'm pretty sure "Tropes/cliches aren't bad" has come up a couple times in thread, but I hope the ideas make sense!