Would You Perma-death?

[Nero]

Really, the only things stopping me from considering the possibility of perma-death is that 1). it'd probably take me a while to write up a new character that is also a fresh perspective, a brand new personality, and backstory with appropriate motivations and 2). there's no way to name-change and that kind of thing matters to me.

 

But otherwise, I've basically written all of my character in such a way that their death is pretty foreseeable.

[FreelanceWizard]

Maybe it's just me, but I read the "asking permission" comment as a standard consent rule: before you make permanent changes to someone else's character (death, rape, torture, etc.), you need to ask their permission first. Likewise, someone needs to ask your permission before they do the same to your character.

 

While I generally discuss major, permanent character changes with my key RP associates and the officers of my guild/FC as a consideration, and I generally avoid massive quick character changes, I don't think it's strictly necessary to get others' permission before altering your character. It is, however, a jerk move to do so without at least mentioning it in advance, or if you do it with regularity, IMO.

[Rosekitten]

I'd say if you don't think her story is ready to end just yet figure a way around it. It was mentioned to have her holed up somewhere for a while and come back after some time has passed. I don't play with alts either so I know how the thought process is of killing your one character off. In past rp's I have killed main characters off but they normally had a good reason or their death carried an importance to the story. In a few cases it seemed to give the story new life even and a fresh main character or set of main characters. 

 

With being in a similar boat as you with having only one character .. I find myself every once in a while asking if I should write up something and just end the character. Mainly being that the direction I wanted the character to grow didn't seem to come to pass. Really as more time goes on I feel like I know the character less and less. Though also unlike your character.. I think I would only have to answer to maybe a handful of people who would bother to find out if something happened or not. 

 

But back on topic; like I said.. if you feel there is more to be had with the character then try to pull through or plan out something with the other person. I'm all for being realistic but there is also a matter of your own enjoyment with the game and stories. Also I guess the real answer here.. sure I'd perma death if it was me in that situation. I have my reasons behind it, some ic and some not. My character isn't a top notch fighter so it wouldn't be too unrealistic to receive a fatal wound.

[Crisiet]

I am torn because I don't want to end her story yet, but I also want to be realistic.

 

If you feel torn about it, you're probably not ready to do it. Realism be damned.

 

Crisiet might die at some point, but it'll be under my own terms. No one needs to feel like they -have- to kill their character for the sake of being realistic.

[Illira]

Yes, I would perma-death a main RP character if the time/situation was right for it. I'm actually kind of surprised that I haven't yet, to be quite honest.

 

The possibility of that happening came up for one of my most oft-RPed characters a couple of months ago. Although it ended up not happening, that was simply a result of the RP not taking it to that point.

 

I'd done a lot of consideration on the subject and decided that under those circumstances and had decided I would be alright with it even if it would be a sad affair to lose that character. While his personal story was far from being "played-out" as some people put it, the thematics and echos let behind by his death under those circumstance would have been right and perhaps have served a greater purpouse in the overall story-arc.

 

Part of my willingness to do that, is because I find that often times, in these sorts of matters, taking the OOCly easy way out feels disrespectful to the character. Thats not to say that I have any issue when someone decides to opt-out of say, killing or maiming their character when it comes up. Just that when I get a feeling in my gut that something -should- happen but don't want it to for OOC reason I'm much more likely to set aside the OOC for the IC. Its a matter of their life choices (good or bad) having brought them to that point and shying away from the repercussions of that doesn't sit well with me.

 

Recently, I had to make a relatively spur of moment decision (if you count staring at the screen debating with yourself for 20 mins spur of the moment!) about whether or not to let my Roe, Cypress get stabbed in the eyes and blinded. While it certainly wasn't death, I think for this character, I actually would found that sort of decision easier to make than this particular maiming. While I could have written it off as her merely turning her head and getting her face scratched up, it would have brushed off the hubris that had led her to that exact moment. Her being blinded means that she's going to be challenged to learn and adapt when such a thing goes against her very nature. Its essentially worse than death to her to need to depend on the very person that she blames for her newfound circumstance. But it was poetic justice, and I'm interested to see what will happen. Just as I'm interested in the fallout that happens from characters' deaths.

 

So... moral of this post is, due what feels right in your gut. Whatever that may be, if its the right time for a character to have ______ happen to them, you'll know.

 

On a side note response to:

I know many of you have loads of alts, so the death of an alt really can't have the same impact.

I'm not sure if I agree that the decision to kill of an alt is necessarily a less impactful one though. Admittedly, that could be because in a given RP universe I usually have multiple characters that I would consider "mains", so that distinction between a main and an alt is super fuzzy for me in a lot of cases.

[Zyrusticae]

My answer to this is simple:

 

No, thanks.

 

I'm an inherently optimistic individual. Not unrealistically so, mind you, but I pretty much assume all of my characters are going to get to live to old age. In fact, this is much how it is IRL - once you get past the child mortality barrier, your chances of living to at least 60 are very, very high. This might be lower for adventurers who are consistently in danger, but not many of us actually play characters who are engaged in that sort of activity, and even then, those of us who do usually play them up as at least being competent at their work (because if they were incompetent, they would likely already be dead).

 

I find it distressingly cynical that so many players think that there is a point where a character's time is 'done' and so they can be offed just like that. It's... jarring, really. Many people IRL live long past their prime. There's nothing saying that, once you're no longer relevant (and, ahem, many of us will never be relevant), poof, you're gone, say your goodbyes and say hello to the dirt. I know that's not exactly how you're treating it, but it's also not far removed either.

 

Granted, I can understand this in the case that you're just not interested in playing that character anymore, and also don't feel compelled to reroll. In that case it is probably justifiable, if a bit silly from a story perspective ("yeah the writer just got kinda sick of writing for this character, off with her head!"). But offing a character just to make a point, or because it's "realistic" (in a Final Fantasy game?), just feels completely off to me. If someone were to try to convince me to off one of my characters, they'd certainly have to do a lot better than that!

 

Edit: Okay, I guess I should point out that all of my characters are the type to be at least careful about their decisions, so they are naturally inclined to live longer than perhaps the more rambunctious and hot-headed types. If I did play a character that wasn't so thoughtfully inclined I can see them getting maimed at some point to teach them to stop being dumb, but then again, if you ask me, those types of characters are very likely to die early to begin with, and you should probably consider altering that aspect of the character if you actually want to be somewhat realistic (though, again... in a Final Fantasy game?).

[Antain]

I am torn because I don't want to end her story yet, but I also want to be realistic.

 

If you feel torn about it, you're not ready to do it. Realism be damned.

 

Very much this. There have been a few times where Vaughn was on death's door (twice for sure), but it was "realistically" countered because I wasn't quite ready to kill him. If there is any hesitation, it is not time. With magic being so prevalent, even getting run through by a spear can be mended before you bleed to death.

 

That said, and back to OP topic, I have permadeathed a few characters for story reasons. Sometimes it's a bad guy, sometimes just for feels. But always for a reason. As of this moment, Vaughn's sticking around. He's finally getting his shit together, and is still able to have exciting adventures with his personal story finished. He can now help others with theirs since his demons are dead. Mostly.

[Illira]

Edit: Okay, I guess I should point out that all of my characters are the type to be at least careful about their decisions, so they are naturally inclined to live longer than perhaps the more rambunctious and hot-headed types. If I did play a character that wasn't so thoughtfully inclined I can see them getting maimed at some point to teach them to stop being dumb, but then again, if you ask me, those types of characters are very likely to die early to begin with, and you should probably consider altering that aspect of the character if you actually want to be somewhat realistic (though, again... in a Final Fantasy game?).

 

Its not just rambunctious and hot-headed types that get can get themselves into trouble though. There are any number of reasons that a character can get into that sort of situation. Neither character that I described in my post are rambunctious and hot-headed types. One of them was simply in over his head trying to protect and shelter others when he really didn't have the capability to defend them from what was coming. And the other simply has underestimated the immediate danger of the situation as a result of hubris.

 

 

 

I've never understood the argument of why something can't be realistic just because its in ____ universe. Just because the aesthetic

[Verad]

Overall: Possibly, depending on a number of factors including the cost of renaming and race-changing the character (because I may be willing to kill an RP character but there's no way I'm going to delete an in-game one into which I've put a significant amount of work) and my personal mood towards the character. If I ever reach a point where I think, "Ugh, Verad again," then yes, he will likely be purged. I will warn people in advance for courtesy's sake, but will not change that course once it's been set.

 

In Verad's specific case: Highly unlikely to occur without being scripted. Random chance and death is always a possibility, but he seems to attract a full medical corps once he's been even mildly injured. He must have good health insurance.

[Berrod Armstrong]

 yes, he will likely be purged. 

*side-eyes*

[Verad]

 yes, he will likely be purged. 

*side-eyes*

 

Is this a faux-pas? Should I have framed it differently?

 

...People aren't staring, are they?

[Askier]

As someone that has killed off 4 characters so far, death is certainly.a powerful tool and one that can really make a lasting impression on people. Jin'li's story and arc would not have had the same impact if he had lived. So, from that angle I can understand. You have rped yourself into situation and want to be realistic about it. I respect that.

 

BUT . . .

 

Don't do it till you are sure you won't regret it. Even as 'evil' as Jin'li was, it was hard for me to let him die. Even though he basically shoved a gun into Kanaria's hands and said shoot me, it was hard. He was my.character but I -knew- I was okay with him dying.

 

I mean Askier, honestly, should have died at least twice. But I wasn't willing to let him go. I just wasn't, so I made him suffer for his actions in others ways. He has PTSD and is missing an arm but he is still alive. So if you feel you aren't ready to kill off there are other options you can explore that can be very reasonable repricussions for Kiht's actions other than death.

 

Just my 2 Gil.

[K'nahli]

My honest answer with myself, no probably not. Not before I felt that the character's story was played out. I'm immensely attached to my main and while I often think of scenario's where she would and could die I don't think I could actually kill her before her time was done and I felt that I wouldn't have regrets about it.

 

I will say this though, that I intensely admire those who can handle being able to kill their mains, like has been said it's a very powerful storytelling device sometimes and I envy those who can wield it to an extent. Now kind of commenting on the two perspectives about if it's ok to kill your character with/without permission:

 

I'm of two minds on this one because it is your character and the death may be for an OOC reason, you have to keep yourself happy or your RP will suffer, so maybe you just can't play that character anymore and rather than abruptly changing their personality you'd rather end them and let others remember them the way you'd want them to. Or it could be for any other number of reasons. I completely get that it's your character, BUT, on the other hand I also see the other side of the spectrum because I have been on it. While the character that my character lost DID come back, she didn't know this and when he kicked the bucket it changed her story and her completely for a time. She went from naive, friendly and hopeful to desperate, closed off, and depressed. If left that way it's possible that she could have changed completely in both personality and her story in general because she was traveling the path of very dark magic in any hopes she could bring him back.

 

Minus all that rambling, the death of a loved one can be traumatic to your character and completely change the way they're played so yes it does affect others in a very large ripple, so I can see some people taking it as a smack in the face when you decide to kill said character. To clarify though I don't think it's wrong on either side, just that I can see both sides of the argument clearly. Not helpful but certainly my two cents!

 

This is a large reason why I am not sure I ever could kill of an "important" character of my own when other peoples' RP can rely pretty heavily on the fact that they're alive. Not saying that that is quite the case for me, but to use my own two characters as an example:

 

 

K'nahli

 

Her death would deeply trouble her younger sister K'mih and have a massive impact on her RP but I do not think it could be considered interesting or dramatic as opposed to troublesome and even selfish. It would also have a significant impact on a tia named K'rahto who has a bit of a thing for her as well as her father though he wouldn't be a primary concern I guess. K'rahto's story hinges a lot on K'nahli since he was sort of developed for that unrequited and forbidden love dynamic, haha.

 

 

Andre

 

He is sort of Clover's excuse to go to events without being there alone. I'm sure his death wouldn't stop her and probably wouldn't trouble her that much but it would be an OOC inconvenience to the player so for that reason alone I could not kill him, even if I really wanted to.

[LiadansWhisper]

I know many of you have loads of alts, so the death of an alt really can't have the same impact. Anyone out there ever have their main character killed before the planned end of their story?

 

I would not.  And I don't see how letting your main character "die" before the end of their story is, in any way, some kind of heroic act.  And I kind of feel like the tone of your original post is a bit..how shall I say it...people should not be shamed into letting go of a character they love simply because some people on the internet say it's the cool thing to do, and only real RPers are courageous enough to do so.

 

Cuz that's bullshit.  

 

I've had characters permanently killed against my will (and, in two cases, without any real cause - other player was "bored" by his own explanation ._.), and it's one reason why I avoid permanent death games.  I don't think there's some special level of "RP cred" that you get from someone ganking your character - even with your permission.

 

Note: I'm not talking about consequences coming home to roost.  Honestly, if you have been doing shit that would logically ultimately end in your demise (i.e. you have so many people out for your blood due to the heinous shit your character is up to that it would make no sense for you to escape), that very well might be the logical end to your character.

 

I still would never look down my nose on someone who chose not to kill their character off, though.  I have yet to meet someone who killed their main off before that character's story finished who did not regret it and wish they'd chosen otherwise.  Most of them were fine at first, then began to really wish they hadn't done it, and be very upset over the coming weeks and months.  A few of them just stopped RPing altogether because they weren't able to "connect" with their new character.

[TheLastCandle]

Overall: Possibly, depending on a number of factors including the cost of renaming and race-changing the character (because I may be willing to kill an RP character but there's no way I'm going to delete an in-game one into which I've put a significant amount of work) and my personal mood towards the character. If I ever reach a point where I think, "Ugh, Verad again," then yes, he will likely be purged. I will warn people in advance for courtesy's sake, but will not change that course once it's been set.

 

In Verad's specific case: Highly unlikely to occur without being scripted. Random chance and death is always a possibility, but he seems to attract a full medical corps once he's been even mildly injured. He must have good health insurance.

 

Depending upon what comes of that Plot Device Yvelont purchased, Rivienne may very well have it in for Verad!

[Aya]

Yes.  But I hope it doesn't happen!

[DreamedReality]

In a word, no. Especially not Jaques.

 

Long version:

I am a very anxious and nervous person and breaking a new character in, even with people I know oocly and RP with on a regular basis is very very stressful for me. It's never a fun event despite the knowledge that once I get over this beginning hump that things get better/easier and become fun. It triggers my anxiety of new people interaction horribly because it -is- a totally new person for the other people involved. It's the reason that while I adore making characters... I rarely ever RP an alt unless I'm feeling particularly stable.

 

I like the progress I've made with Jaques and am rather proud of myself every time I RP him as not a nervous neurotic anxiety ridden person with every new individual he meets. It's work for me because I am being that neurotic individual behind the scenes. And if anyone else here ever gets panic attacks they know it's not always easy to think through them. So no. I will not kill of Jaques until I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I'm done with Eorzea and this game as a whole. Simply because I don't want to work at getting an entirely new character accepted and put into play at the same level he's at. And even with all that said I'll probably not kill him off. Just stick him in retirement because I am rather attached to the bastard.

 

TL;DR- Woo naval gazing! Read the very first sentence again.

[Boo the Hamster]

There's an odd level of attachment I have with each of my characters that I make.  The possibility of perma-death is a thing, but I would make sure I have no feelings attached whatsoever before I make that decision on the character creation screen, not while the character is in play.  I'd also never, ever, /ever/ do that on an MMO RP scene unless I made that character with the intent of it dying eventually or just never playing the game again. I'd also never do it on a solo RP character unless you're done with RP for good. There's far too much loss and time to have it worth the trouble, at least for me.

 

 

Just be careful with that decision, Kiht.  It's a shitty feeling if you have any regrets after she's already dead, and it's very easy to get regrets.

[Knight Kat]

Thank you all for the -excellent- responses so far. It seems like everyone was being totally honest with me, and I greatly appreciate it. I talked OOC with some friends, and found that it is just a touchy subject.

 

On a side note, alts are not just cannon fodder! For some of us, our alts are characters we cherish just as much as our mains!

 

:lol: That was rather presumptuous of me, but I said it for a reason. I apologize to everyone for that. I am not a RPer who has alts. I just can't seem to find the motivation to play anything else except my main. I can't think of a story I would find interesting enough to make me choose to play an alt instead of my main at any given time. However, I understand that many people are not like that. I just wanted to make sure that people were thinking of characters they actually care about before answering my questions.

 

I would not. And I don't see how letting your main character "die" before the end of their story is, in any way, some kind of heroic act. And I kind of feel like the tone of your original post is a bit..how shall I say it...people should not be shamed into letting go of a character they love simply because some people on the internet say it's the cool thing to do, and only real RPers are courageous enough to do so.

 

Cuz that's bullshit

 

I respectfully ask that you do not try to read too deep into what you interpret as my tone, and certainly not try to attach words to it that I did -not- write.

 

I was letting people know why I was conflicted in the most concise way I knew how without having to explain the whole context of my character's situation. I also wanted to avoid automatic responses that I have seen some people do without thinking through their answers.

 

Perhaps the only thing I did wrong was fail to explain my feelings in the best way possible. However, that is difficult when I am conflicted about something. The only purpose of my OP was to get honest feedback from others, not tell people what my opinion is. If I had a set opinion on this topic, I would never have started this thread.

[Faye]

Nope, at least not until I'm fully finished playing a character. That being said, with that mentality, it's only fair that I try my best not to put my character into scenarios where death is the likely/only option. I've seen a lot of people press their luck with their characters being assholes and refusing to leave a dangerous situation while OOCly saying "You can't kill/maim/arrest my character, I want to keep playing him, you don't have my OOC approval." =/

[Val]

 I've seen a lot of people press their luck with their characters being assholes and refusing to leave a dangerous situation while OOCly saying "You can't kill/maim/arrest my character, I want to keep playing him, you don't have my OOC approval." =/

 

Yeah this is kind of the problem I have with people refusing to let their character be killed/captured/whatever. You can't just be a douche IC and then expect to get away clean or not have repercussions for the actions the character took. 

 

I, for one, and completely fine with Val or any of my characters being permanently killed. It kind of goes along with the territory of RPing that character's life out and seeing where it takes them. To be honest, I'm surprised someone hasn't tried to take poor Val-pal out already with as much of an asshole as he is, though certain people in his life are doing a very good job at turning him around.

 

That being said, I'm also not against someone going through the ringer to "revive" him, but it wouldn't just be a day, couple of days, or couple of weeks-long process. I imagine a revival would take some time, and it would be something that multiple people have to want, and it would leave the character with scars upon being revived. And it's definitely not something that I'll allow to happen multiple times. Once, MAYBE twice depending on how I feel at that point, but I imagine then the character would be too far gone.

 

I think that the revival RP in of itself offers a great RP opportunity for the character, their loved ones, and people around that character. I think I would definitely allow the character at least that one, but I wouldn't initiate it. People would have to care about him or her enough to WANT to do it.

[Aya]

I've seen a lot of people press their luck with their characters being assholes and refusing to leave a dangerous situation while OOCly saying "You can't kill/maim/arrest my character, I want to keep playing him, you don't have my OOC approval." =/

That's pretty much where I draw the line too... if you are not willing to let your character die, I do not think you should put him or her in a situation where that is a likely or reasonable outcome. That doesn't mean you should roll over if someone else puts you in that situation, but some thought and care should go into thinking about how far to push that limit.

 

Its ultimately about fun for everyone involved, but at some point someone pretends to be Superman and then its no fun for anyone.

[Aya]

I just think of Aya crying when she finds out someone died and it's a sobering thought.

Awww, Warren!  That's true, and there's something to not pushing depressing RP on people (and there would be sadness), but.. the life of adventurers is a dangerous one :-]

 

No one should ever find themselves in a position where they really feel pressured to do something terrible to their character, the consequences of it certainly do reverberate beyond the one character.  This is both sadness, and opportunity for RP, and growth, etc.  At the end of the day, though, RP that takes place in a bubble where that grisly outcome is dismissed from the start, is RP that loses that much additional tension and believability. 

 

This post did, though, really make me think about it some more.  I understand your position Warren, and appreciate the care (I know it wasn't directly personally toward me, but nonetheless!)

 

It definitely leads me to think that killing off a character in a non-chalant non-necessary manner is really not a good idea.  Better to let the character retire into obscurity.

[DreamedReality]

I've seen a lot of people press their luck with their characters being assholes and refusing to leave a dangerous situation while OOCly saying "You can't kill/maim/arrest my character, I want to keep playing him, you don't have my OOC approval." =/

That's pretty much where I draw the line too... if you are not willing to let your character die, do not put him or her in a situation where that is a likely or reasonable outcome.

 

Its ultimately about fun for everyone involved, but at some point someone pretends to be Superman and then its no fun for anyone.

 

Yes... This certainly isn't good either and very frustrating when it happens. Flexibility is good. Repercussions are good.

[Antain]

I've seen a lot of people press their luck with their characters being assholes and refusing to leave a dangerous situation while OOCly saying "You can't kill/maim/arrest my character, I want to keep playing him, you don't have my OOC approval." =/

That's pretty much where I draw the line too... if you are not willing to let your character die, do not put him or her in a situation where that is a likely or reasonable outcome.

 

Its ultimately about fun for everyone involved, but at some point someone pretends to be Superman and then its no fun for anyone.

 

Yes... This certainly isn't good either and very frustrating when it happens. Flexibility is good. Repercussions are good.

 

So much this. All of this.