Would You Perma-death?

[Knight Kat]

So this is another one of those "fun" threads where I ask about everyone's favorite topic; death! :lol:

 

For the first time in my RP in this game, I am faced with a situation where I have to decide if I am willing to risk my one and only RP character dying in a conflict with another player character. To be clear, I am talking about her dying and staying dead.

 

I am torn because I don't want to end her story yet, but I also want to be realistic.

So, I figured it might help to see what other RPers think about perma-death of their main characters before the planned end of their story. Ideally, I see my character having an end to her story when I decide to leave the game. However, that may not be realistic.

 

I know many of you have loads of alts, so the death of an alt really can't have the same impact. Anyone out there ever have their main character killed before the planned end of their story?

 

I am not talking about a character dying then having been resurrected through "mumbo-jumbo" circumstances. I am asking about dying and staying dead. I have also seen countless players say that they would be willing to have their character die, but stop the scene at the final moment, and ask/choose a way out for their character. I do not ever look down on anyone for that, but I would appreciate if you all be honest with yourselves, and honest with me if you respond to this thread.

Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated.

[Melodia]

I actually considered having Ruru die recently, a tragic twist to his story, most likely at the hands of his brother, but reconsidered. It's just not his time yet. However I am likely to have one of my three die permanently and that's a difficult call. But as for main....yeah for a week or two I was actually writing up a scenario wherein Ruru would have been dead for good.

 

But the cruel player in me knows he still has some ways farther to fall down that abyss before I could even consider ending his life.  :evil:

[Brynhilde]

I'm not ruling it out. But it would only happen once Bryn's long-term story is resolved. There's too much story to go as it stands, and I'm terribly fond of her. So it wouldn't be for a long time.

 

Most perma-deaths come when people grow bored of their characters, I think. It's a difficult thing to part with a character you still love.

[Warren Castille]

At first I thought you meant in the PVE sense, to which I would have laughed and been horrified. I play a tank! No way!

 

But in the scheme of narrative RP? Absolutely. I've thought about it in XIV, but couldn't come up with anything to really make it a story worth telling. It's a level of finality that can make for exceptionally powerful storytelling, but I'd have trouble trusting myself to do it right.

[Bumo]

I'd have trouble with even an alt dying before they reached the end of the story I want for them, I couldn't bear to have my main character killed off prematurely. The only thing that would make me consider it is if the end was fitting, and left me with no regrets. If I could look back at that character and say, "They didn't achieve what I set out for them to achieve, but they had a good run."

 

But even then, it'd probably still bother me.

[Roswyn]

Character death is one of those things that I think requires a lot of OOC communication to prevent any kind of mixed feelings. Not just on the part of the person who's character is passing away but the people who may have been involved because they could feel guilty, like their character didn't do enough, like they are being shoehorned into mourning, etc.

 

In my mind, there is a list of things that you should get approval for before trying to lock someone's character in a situation and that includes rape, torture, death, and other various nasties.

 

I'll be honest and say I've never seen an impromptu character death that went over well. There is always a lot of confused, mixed feelings and inevitable retconning. However, with proper communication, a valiant character death can be pulled off. It's the natural instinct of your character's comrades and loved ones to -save- them and they may bend the world over backwards to do so if allowed and it needs to be understood from the get-go that this is InsertNameHere's final hurrah.

 

Something that needs to be kept in mind as well is you are essentially asking the other players around you to let their character's friend or lover die. It's an outgoing ripple effect of RP that certain folk may decide they don't want to be a part of due to whatever circumstances. The player who's character was your character's lover now has to RP them in mourning which may sound very miserable to them and they might not be up to the challenge or might be going through something IRL that makes it in poor taste etc.

 

There is a lot of plates spinning in the air with character death. I can't stress communication enough with that one and is one of the things that I do feel is often best in a plot/planned scenario with unplanned variables here and there.

[Nebbs]

In a word, no.

 

My characters have a life, they are not immortal, so they do die. But there is a story there to play. I may retire them and put them out of the way, but I expect I would always leave the opportunity for them to return.

 

In other dice based games where RNG can kill you, then yes I have had characters die permanently. But for me my RP is now more about the role play and less about mechanics.

 

If I was to take my char out in FFXIV, then I would probably just re-purpose the toon with a new look, name and character.

[Chika Ito]

Roswyn said it perfectly.

 

I think you should also sit down, and clearly think about what you want. I'm not trying to persuade you out of it, but if it is a 'you die, and you stay dead' situation you need to ensure that you've thought things through with a clear mind.

 

I've killed several of my mains off in the past in other MMOs, and on role play forums. In my mind it is a bit difficult, because like Roswyn mentioned there are mixed feelings that come into play.

 

Just be sure you are making the right decision ^^

[Roswyn]

Roswyn said it perfectly.

 

I think you should also sit down, and clearly think about what you want. I'm not trying to persuade you out of it, but if it is a 'you die, and you stay dead' situation you need to ensure that you've thought things through with a clear mind.

 

I've killed several of my mains off in the past in other MMOs, and on role play forums. In my mind it is a bit difficult, because like Roswyn mentioned there are mixed feelings that come into play.

 

Just be sure you are making the right decision ^^

 

 

D'awww thank ya.

 

In my experience, I've only permanently killed off one character during my time roleplaying and when it happened there wasn't much indecision. I'd played her for about 2 years and I honestly felt that it was just time for her to go. As callous as that sounds. It's the kind of thing that I think you "know" it's time for.

 

Also, I don't think there is any shame is putting a character down for a few months, doing something else, then coming back to the game and saying they've been away doing something involving their plot. Death isn't always the answer.

[Melodia]

In my mind, there is a list of things that you should get approval for before trying to lock someone's character in a situation and that includes rape, torture, death, and other various nasties.

 

I have to say I disagree with this to a point. I'm not sure why I would need approval if I wanted my character to die permanently. Is it not my character, and not the community character? I am not trying to be rude or flippant....I am simply asking for clarity sake.

 

For example, Ruru is close friends with Zhavi in game but I certainly wouldn't need her permission to have Ruru die. She would be sad, yes, and rp would be altered to adjust, but again, just as irl, characters cope and adjust. I think asking for permission....it just doesn't sit right with me. I know others will disagree with me, but if at some point I were planning for Ruru to pass on, I wouldn't ask for permission. I wouldn't get an okay from the outside. I would certainly communicate my intentions, but would not alter them just because others maybe feel sad. I get that....but it's the natural reaction just as any death of a friend or loved one would be.

[FreelanceWizard]

In consensual RP, no, I've never killed off my main (or only) character before it felt like an appropriate time in their story (or it was an appropriate time OOC; I've perma-killed characters in games I'm leaving and never intend to return to). Others have mentioned all the various consequences of permanent character death; I'd add to that the comment that there are lots of realistic ways, especially in a setting with magic, to just barely cheat death but have long-term consequences for having done so. That achieves a level of gravitas to the conflict without ending a character's story abruptly.

[Warren Castille]

In my mind, there is a list of things that you should get approval for before trying to lock someone's character in a situation and that includes rape, torture, death, and other various nasties.

 

I have to say I disagree with this to a point. I'm not sure why I would need approval if I wanted my character to die permanently. Is it not my character, and not the community character? I am not trying to be rude or flippant....I am simply asking for clarity sake.

 

For example, Ruru is close friends with Zhavi in game but I certainly wouldn't need her permission to have Ruru die. She would be sad, yes, and rp would be altered to adjust, but again, just as irl, characters cope and adjust. I think asking for permission....it just doesn't sit right with me. I know others will disagree with me, but if at some point I were planning for Ruru to pass on, I wouldn't ask for permission. I wouldn't get an okay from the outside. I would certainly communicate my intentions, but would not alter them just because others maybe feel sad. I get that....but it's the natural reaction just as any death of a friend or loved one would be.

 

I think the idea is that when you decide to kill your own character, you're essentially setting a storyline for those your character knew, that must be dealt with. Majority of us like our RP to progress organically, so if I were to suddenly kill Warren for real, I would be forcing that story onto everyone he knew. Those players would then have to deal with the fact he was gone, and it would essentially be a big derailing moment in everyone else's gears.

 

Depending on existing relationships, suddenly losing someone could be a seriously jarring experience. It leaves an impact on those left to keep living, and it's not entirely fair to force them through that blindly.

 

/devilsadvocate

[Berrod Armstrong]

So this is another one of those "fun" threads where I ask about everyone's favorite topic; death! :lol:

 

For the first time in my RP in this game, I am faced with a situation where I have to decide if I am willing to risk my one and only RP character dying in a conflict with another player character. To be clear, I am talking about her dying and staying dead.

 

I am torn because I don't want to end her story yet, but I also want to be realistic.

So, I figured it might help to see what other RPers think about perma-death of their main characters before the planned end of their story. Ideally, I see my character having an end to her story when I decide to leave the game. However, that may not be realistic.

 

I know many of you have loads of alts, so the death of an alt really can't have the same impact. Anyone out there ever have their main character killed before the planned end of their story?

 

I am not talking about a character dying then having been resurrected through "mumbo-jumbo" circumstances. I am asking about dying and staying dead. I have also seen countless players say that they would be willing to have their character die, but stop the scene at the final moment, and ask/choose a way out for their character. I do not ever look down on anyone for that, but I would appreciate if you all be honest with yourselves, and honest with me if you respond to this thread.  

Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated.

In my opinion, if you do not want to end your story yet, adjust the narrative to ensure that she does not die. Have her laid up for a bit, perhaps, injured and out of the picture for a couple weeks, if you want to do it like that. Being 'realistic' while roleplaying can only have so much merit -- in the end, you want to have fun, and you want to keep doing what you want to do.

 

On a side note, alts are not just cannon fodder! For some of us, our alts are characters we cherish just as much as our mains!

 

But yeah, if you want your character's story to continue, you have the power to bend the world of your narrative in order to do so. If your concern is making it believable, rise to that challenge! Get them creative wheels turning and construct a means by which your character will survive the ordeal -- no matter how scarred she may be in the end. 

 

...I'm a bit notorious for killing off my characters, but I only ever do so when I am done with their story. I -have- done 'everyone thought he was dead but he wasn't' thing, but it was due to an overwhelming demand to have the character back and it took an entire story arc to explore why he hadn't died and why everyone thought he had. However, if I'm not ready for a character to die, I will do whatever it takes, communicate with whoever I must, and work with them in order to make sure that does not happen.

 

It's your party and it ain't over till you say so.

[Roswyn]

In my mind, there is a list of things that you should get approval for before trying to lock someone's character in a situation and that includes rape, torture, death, and other various nasties.

 

I have to say I disagree with this to a point. I'm not sure why I would need approval if I wanted my character to die permanently. Is it not my character, and not the community character? I am not trying to be rude or flippant....I am simply asking for clarity sake.

 

For example, Ruru is close friends with Zhavi in game but I certainly wouldn't need her permission to have Ruru die. She would be sad, yes, and rp would be altered to adjust, but again, just as irl, characters cope and adjust. I think asking for permission....it just doesn't sit right with me. I know others will disagree with me, but if at some point I were planning for Ruru to pass on, I wouldn't ask for permission. I wouldn't get an okay from the outside. I would certainly communicate my intentions, but would not alter them just because others maybe feel sad. I get that....but it's the natural reaction just as any death of a friend or loved one would be.

 

In what I described above I'm referring to actually acting out the death in RP with other character's present. From my experience, there is a much more realistic sense to having the character die with their friends and loved ones actively watching/being unable to help vs. a narrative or forum post.

 

Ros had to watch someone she loves dearly (but will never admit to that) almost die pretty gruesomely in front of her while she was nigh powerless to help and she can't even hear about the method of how he did it without flying into an emotional fit. I've only had a couple RP's ever bring me to tears IRL and that was one of them.

 

Hence why I tend to think discussion beforehand is pretty important. Depending on how seriously the people you are playing with take their RP you could be asking a lot.

[Melodia]

I can understand that aspect but again don't we always advocate that everyone is simply a supporting character in another person's story? If I believe the time is natural for Ruru, Melodia or Krell to pass away at any point in their story, then it should not have to be cleared by anyone other than myself. And I'm not trying to pick a fight.   I am just saying, principle-wise, I have a great deal of heartburn in moving my character forward and having to get clearance from others for how that happens.

 

Anything in the game can be jarring. Ruru is an alcoholic. That should be jarring to others especially those close to him. But people live with it and roll with with it. I know death is heavier but can actually add a nuanced layer of development to those around in the aftermath. And as for forcing rp....I hear this come up a great deal but aren't we always forcing our rp onto others? Walkups and such are essentially just that. Forcing our rp onto others. 

 

#justsayin

 

*hides from backlash and throws out cookies for everyone to pacify them*

[Warren Castille]

Well, there's "forcing" RP in walk-ups, but that can always be avoided by walking away or not going to the place we're in. I'm with you, for the record: I think if we decide to off ourselves, we don't have to answer to anyone about it except ourselves.

 

I just also understand that by severing the connections the character had with others, we're railroading them into a depressing storyline they might not want to have to embody.

 

I just think of Aya crying when she finds out someone died and it's a sobering thought.

[Kage]

Personally I RP for myself just as much as I RP to tell a good story. I set Kage up so that I see how he and others react to things because that's what I'm interested in.

 

If I think I can do a character death justice I would definitely go through with it.

 

For now, I'm so very reluctant because the PVE character Kage is my main. It's the only one I have with a lvl 50. I -raid- with him. As such, I really will only do a death when a) not in a raid static and/or b) it doesn't cost me 3 days to change his name. I've still got fantasia so it works out.

[Warren Castille]

I'd be a lot more inclined to kill myself if I could namechange. It's hard to give up my spot in the world both PVE AND RP, but I like hurting people emotionally with RP. The best stories are the ones that make us feel!

[Coatleque]

As it stands right now, no, I would not kill Coatleque. The only reason is because I don't have the ambition to level and gear up yet another character.

 

That said, this game has the unique advantage of Fantasia potions. If SE would offer the ability to just as easily rename your character, then YES, I would more readily agree to kill her off. Then I could rename the character, fantasia a new look, and start over RP-wise without losing any progress.

 

I guess what I'm saying is I'm not so attached to her as a character as I am to her OOC progression progress. Especially with all the time I've pumped into the relic weapon already.

[C'kayah Polaali]

Yeah, I absolutely would. I play C'kayah at a fairly low-power level (that is, he's not a superhero, he's an ordinary guy in FF), and he's a risk-seeking criminal, so there are a lot of potentially lethal situations he can run into. He's actually crossed over three times in the course of play, and has been pulled back by others (once with my OOC assistance - hi, Kiht!) at the last moment, which has ended up giving him a strange outlook on death.

 

That said, I'll echo what Roswyn said about coordinating OOCly with other people. Not necessarily that your character is going to die (in two of the three deaths of C'kayah, there was basically no warning. He died from injuries sustained in an surprise attack), but simply that your character is killable. I have ended up having OOC arguments with people who I play with because of our differing views of the killability of our characters, and believe me when I say that's not a fun argument to have, especially if you're feeling strong emotions because of the death scene you're currently playing out, or have just played out.

[Siha]

My honest answer with myself, no probably not. Not before I felt that the character's story was played out. I'm immensely attached to my main and while I often think of scenario's where she would and could die I don't think I could actually kill her before her time was done and I felt that I wouldn't have regrets about it.

 

I will say this though, that I intensely admire those who can handle being able to kill their mains, like has been said it's a very powerful storytelling device sometimes and I envy those who can wield it to an extent. Now kind of commenting on the two perspectives about if it's ok to kill your character with/without permission:

 

I'm of two minds on this one because it is your character and the death may be for an OOC reason, you have to keep yourself happy or your RP will suffer, so maybe you just can't play that character anymore and rather than abruptly changing their personality you'd rather end them and let others remember them the way you'd want them to. Or it could be for any other number of reasons. I completely get that it's your character, BUT, on the other hand I also see the other side of the spectrum because I have been on it. While the character that my character lost DID come back, she didn't know this and when he kicked the bucket it changed her story and her completely for a time. She went from naive, friendly and hopeful to desperate, closed off, and depressed. If left that way it's possible that she could have changed completely in both personality and her story in general because she was traveling the path of very dark magic in any hopes she could bring him back.

 

Minus all that rambling, the death of a loved one can be traumatic to your character and completely change the way they're played so yes it does affect others in a very large ripple, so I can see some people taking it as a smack in the face when you decide to kill said character. To clarify though I don't think it's wrong on either side, just that I can see both sides of the argument clearly. Not helpful but certainly my two cents!

[K'nahli]

Maybe.

[TheLastCandle]

I had this discussion with the player of Yve's IC partner very recently, actually. I came to the conclusion that no, I couldn't. I'm far too attached to my main to have him killed off. I feel differently when I'm writing stories independent of a game setting, but my primary motivator here is to have fun. And simply put, that wouldn't be fun for me. I'd rather imagine him hanging the weapons above the mantle, growing old, and eventually finding his peace naturally. I'm a bit of a softy.

[Eva]

Absolutely.

 

We hemmed and hawed a lot around killing Eva off during the events of the Calamity - in part because it seemed pretty clear that most of the folks I RPed with were going to survive.  In the end we hatched a story about how she came to be at Carteneau Flats and she survived.  As odd as it may sound, I do sometimes regret this and wonder at how different things might be if we used that opportunity for a character rename and appearance reset to start something totally new - a character that "fits in" a little better maybe.  I guess for all her quirks and tragedy and awkwardness, we do enjoy RPing her and the sort of strained relationships she has with her peers.

 

Would we perma-death now?  I'd still think about it, if a situation arose where it would make sense perhaps.  As she's a single mother now there would be considerations to make for what would happen with Liv and Len.  And the thought of leaving behind orphans seems to complicate matters.  Would another character step forward and take them?  That could drastically change their story, in turn.  That could be a good thing or it could be a bad thing.

 

If we were going to quit things or start a new character at this point I don't think we would kill Eva off.  Instead we might just have her settle down somewhere in Coerthas and kind of give up the adventurer lifestyle and live quietly and raise her children.  There's a certain allure to being able to still call upon her (perhaps as an alt) for those instances where someone might want to go and visit her.

[Roen]

If I felt that my character's story was done, or it has come to a point where death would complete that story, I absolutely would.

 

What I would miss are the connections that the character has made, the relationships, and the memories she has created with other characters. That takes time to nurture! To start over again with a brand new character ... it would mean having to start from scratch all over again, meeting people, forming new friendships.

 

Which could be fun in its own right, but still, death of my character would also mean end to those relationships which for me are just as important as who she is.

 

As for considering death as a possibly to make a RP situation more "realistic" ... I think you can discuss with those involved to still come up with serious realistic consequences other than perma-death to give the story the weight that you want it to have.

 

As for OOC progression? I would just use the transfer/same name character creation/transfer back method to change and fantasia a new toon so I still have a well leveled/geared character I can RP/play with. That doesn't bother me one bit. I do wish though that SE would allow easier way to change names. I would love to just pay a fee for it.