Personal Housing Thread 2.0

[Kage]

For those with a "personal" house, what are the restrictions versus small housing sans the personal rooms?

 

Items allowed?

Vendors allowed?

[Dogberry]

I'm sorry people are pissed off andI do feel badly for those who wanted a personal house. And I'm happy for those that got one.

 

But for the love of all that is good in the world would everyone stop bitching about it? Seriously. People quitting and complaining all morning. Some people who live in a huge FC home or have a nice room, complaining.

 

Complaining.

Complaining.

 

Are they not as advertised? Yeah. But okay....if this is the worst lie you've ever been through or told, you are winning as far as I am concerned. There is so much more to the game than a home. Seriously. Time with your friends, tackling dungeons, rp'ing (I thought that's what we did anyway), crafting, etc.

 

To pin so much emotion on a house? To get so angry? So hurt? It.....it defies logic. And if this little (and yes in the grand scheme it is a little issue) matter is what breaks you from the game, or one man's letter from months ago....well then maybe you need a new hobby, or a new game. I will never be able to afford a home. Not a personal one nor a fake FC  home called a personal one either.  But I still enjoy the game. I find other things to entertain myself and not pin it all on one upcoming patch item.

 

So please.....stop all the complaining about housing. The arguments have been made, we have all heard your voices.....take to official forums now and express your concerns so you can try and get it fixed. Otherwise it'd be nice to see the site go back to normal rather than rant.org all day.

 

:dodgy:

 

You don't get to tell us how we should feel. Ever. About anything.

[ArmachiA]

People are always allowed and justified to be upset when they've been lied to.

 

I don't really care what about. When it comes to business and people are paying to use your product - people are absolutely allowed to get mad when they find out they've been lied to.

 

There's a certain amount of trust Yoshi-p has built up. He fixed a dead game. He said big patches would come every three months and he delivered. For the most part, he's been frank and honest and that's WHAT WE LIKE ABOUT HIM. So when he said Personal Housing was going to be far more affordable and going to be different than FC housing areas. We believed him, why wouldn't we? He's been mostly honest and anything that wasn't completely honest mostly felt like an oversight rather than a lie. Were some of us worried about pricing being higher than they said? Yes, I was one of them. But I figured that they would say something beforehand before the patch. Nope, silence. So I thought all was well.

 

With that trust built up it makes the lie THAT MUCH MORE disappointing. That much more enraging.

 

This reaction doesn't surprise me at all. Let them rage. SE deserves it, there is no defense for this.

[Phayte]

I'm sorry people are pissed off andI do feel badly for those who wanted a personal house. And I'm happy for those that got one.

 

But for the love of all that is good in the world would everyone stop bitching about it? Seriously. People quitting and complaining all morning. Some people who live in a huge FC home or have a nice room, complaining.

 

Complaining.

Complaining.

 

Are they not as advertised? Yeah. But okay....if this is the worst lie you've ever been through or told, you are winning as far as I am concerned. There is so much more to the game than a home. Seriously. Time with your friends, tackling dungeons, rp'ing (I thought that's what we did anyway), crafting, etc.

 

To pin so much emotion on a house? To get so angry? So hurt? It.....it defies logic. And if this little (and yes in the grand scheme it is a little issue) matter is what breaks you from the game, or one man's letter from months ago....well then maybe you need a new hobby, or a new game. I will never be able to afford a home. Not a personal one nor a fake FC  home called a personal one either.  But I still enjoy the game. I find other things to entertain myself and not pin it all on one upcoming patch item.

 

So please.....stop all the complaining about housing. The arguments have been made, we have all heard your voices.....take to official forums now and express your concerns so you can try and get it fixed. Otherwise it'd be nice to see the site go back to normal rather than rant.org all day.

 

:dodgy:

 

Maybe it's silly to be this emotional about things, but from the tone of this thread, it's not complaining. It's more about expressing their disappointment of how the state of the world is. And if anything it's nice to just vent a little and express our opinions out there and to just sort of share with one another. If you're ok with things, you don't need to read the thread (not trying to sound hostile but not sure how to phase it any other way, I mean it in the most non-offensive way possible really).

 

Had they just sad they were just going to drop housing altogether fine. But instead, they went forward and it's just a cruel tease of what you could do but can't even if you had the funds. We all have what's important to us.

[ArmachiA]

Registering your character to XIVPADS the default is achievements being on, I believe.

 

That makes an even narrower sample size. I could cite the BG T9 kill rates for Balmung and it's not really any more accurate.

 

I'm not trying to argue, really, I just wanted to know where the number came from. Statistics, made up on the spot, etc. Some anecdote.

 

Someone scrawled both sites with a program to get those numbers. They did it when the Echo Bonus first came out as well and found that number was 15% have cleared. It's now 40%. Again can't find the source and it's not 100% accurate, obviously.

 

(Googling "T5 + stats + clears" brings up nothing ; ; )

[Kage]

If it's anything like or the same as the website that does the server populations...

 

Like 2 weeks ago they still never registered my character or it having the opo opo minion even though I got it fairly new and recent when it came out.

[ArmachiA]

If you're talking about PADS you have to register your character to the site to give it permission to scroll you

[Nero]

In the end, there is just no way to justify SE's decision-making on this.

 

I'm going to deconstruct some arguments in SE's defense to try to make my point, partially because I'm bored and also because I'm still quite miffed about this. Extremely poor decision-making and outright lying to the playerbase are really, really not good signs for a game's development.

 

If someone would like to play devil's advocate, feel free to reconstruct them.

 

If you can read Japanese, Yoshi-P did make a response post here.

 

1). "Players are paying for the exact same thing as FCs and the same features as FCs, and therefore should pay as much as FCs."

 

Yes, this is technically true. However, what players were expecting was a completely separate housing system that was differentiated from the Free Company housing system in a number of ways. Since there is no way to feasibly include 2.38 million plots in the game world, personal housing would have to be instanced.

 

They would, obviously, reduce the size and the utility of the personal houses in order for FC houses to keep their utility; say for example, the crafting station furniture can only be placed in an FC house. I am sure something like that would have been acceptable.

 

It is not unreasonable for players to pay the exact same amount for FC housing as FCs. The inherent problem is that the personal housing system should absolutely NOT be a completely rehashed, totally unaltered FC house system.

 

2). From Yoshi-P's response post: "Personal housing and FC housing is together because since the game is not new, the number of new FCs is not increasing." Yoshi-P predicts that the number of houses owned by FCs will go down over time occasionally over time, and therefore combining the housing will be a more efficient use of plots to allow individuals to buy them.

 

This is, frankly, ridiculous. Whatever data he is using to make his prediction is completely botched unless he is talking about very low-population servers. Entire FCs even before this have been struggling in the land-race. Raising the gil is not an issue: availability is. Availability has always been the issue with FC housing. This just sounds like an excuse.

 

3). From Yoshi-P's response post: "Part of the reason for the price is that it's shared with FC housing. Gil comes out of thin air from quests and roulettes and many other ways, and housing is supposed to be the game's biggest gil sink. Prices will naturally go down over time if no one pays the initial price. RMT is also a reason to avoid cheap housing."

 

Anyone arguing over price is missing the point. Anyone defending Square Enix's prices on personal housing is completely missing the point.

 

Say it with me, folks. The problem is not the price. The problem has NEVER been about the price. The problem is and will always be about AVAILABILITY.

 

As for Yoshi-P's concern about RMT, he demonstrates a rather poignant failure to understand what drives an RMT market. 

 

The high prices, combined with extremely low stock, encourages RMT heavily. Since the housing plots have extremely low availability, the people who desperately want to participate in this farce of a personal housing system will inevitably use RMT to raise the needed funds in time to purchase a house before the plot becomes sold out to someone else. The RMTs will see undoubtedly see some kind of spike from this.

 

Legitimate players begin to consider RMT as an appropriate avenue when the content seems unfeasible to obtain or out of their reach. Novus weapons cost at least a few million gil, minimum, though this varies according to server. When you make your content extremely prohibitive such that only a tiny part of your playerbase can access it, you encourage RMT because most people do not want to be left out. Some players will simply give up; others will simply use their disposable income in RMT to get what they want.

 

Novus weapons are a poor example because availability is not an issue; it's merely a time investment. Personal housing, however, is extremely limited. It doesn't matter how much you play the game because it is completely possible that the content will be cut out from you due to factors beyond your control.

 

High prices would have been acceptable if there was a guarantee of a light at the end of the tunnel. I can sit on my ass and work on crafting to raise 80 million gil for a large house, as long as there was a large plot waiting for me there.

 

But the limited availability means that if you do not have the gil now, you're probably just out of luck. People stop being invested because there's no feasible way to reach this content for the average person who simply plays the game.

 

4). The last part of Yoshi-P's post states his intention in saying that personal housing would be less than FC housing was to get people to stop worrying since the prices on personal housing had not been released.

 

The only reason I included this was to say that it was a very odd way to say "Yeah we lied but it was for a good reason", which in itself is an incredibly weak justification for the lack of transparency on the issue.

 

In short, the entire feature reeks of terrible execution that was rushed out to meet a time crunch with no thought or effort put into its deployment. That said, nobody would be up in arms over this if Square Enix had simply been honest from the start. It would have gotten poor reactions, yes, but nobody would be setting fires over it the way they are now.

 

If Square Enix just said "We don't have the server space for personal housing", that would have been mostly accepted. If it was an issue of data infrastructure, then that's fine. The rational people of your playerbase would have been okay with that, even if it was a lie.

 

But this? Ya done messed up, Squeenix.

[Elyscia]

For those with a "personal" house, what are the restrictions versus small housing sans the personal rooms?

 

Items allowed?

Vendors allowed?

 

Everything is allowed. I'm about to place my *One per estate items (Aetheryte, Summoning Bell, Mog Mail box) and don't want to buy the Vendors because MA IMMERSION so I haven't bothered buying them, but I'm pretty sure they can be added.

 

So pretty much like an FC house.. but for yourself.

[LiadansWhisper]

For those with a "personal" house, what are the restrictions versus small housing sans the personal rooms?

 

Items allowed?

Vendors allowed?

 

Everything is allowed. I'm about to place my *One per estate items (Aetheryte, Summoning Bell, Mog Mail box) and don't want to buy the Vendors because MA IMMERSION so I haven't bothered buying them, but I'm pretty sure they can be added.

 

So pretty much like an FC house.. but for yourself.

 

I'm guessing FC chests aren't allowed...though I know you can put them into personal rooms.

 

Edited to Add: Just checked the main forums, and you can put an FC chest in your house, and it will link you to the FC bank.

[ArmachiA]

Doesn't seem like there's any restrictions so far. I got the Garden up, put my Aetheryte down and it now says "Teleport - Personal." on my list. Seems it's exactly the same, yeah.

[Kage]

If you're talking about PADS you have to register your character to the site to give it permission to scroll you

Nah there was some website some guy had searching through lodestone without anyone inputting anything into the about section. It was gathering info about classes, minions, race, population, etc.

[Melodia]

By the way, to the person who decided to launch a huge curse laden rant to my skype because of my post, thank you for spoiling my day. I truly appreciate the class and friendship show to me there.

 

Makes me super appreciative I joined this community. :frustrated:

[Kage]

By the way, to the person who decided to launch a huge curse laden rant to my skype because of my post, thank you for spoiling my day. I truly appreciate the class and friendship show to me there.

 

Makes me super appreciative I joined this community. :frustrated:

While your post wasn't great, the response is not cool either.

[Xenedra]

Hiii, it's me again!

 

So far I've been really pleased with how you guys are managing to talk about something that so many people are passionate about without falling off the rails into nastyland. The ride's starting to get bumpy, though, SO:

 

Please, PLEASE keep it this way. PLEASE, don't come in and disrupt the fragile balance by telling people they're overracting. People are going to feel how they feel. I understand that some people are just concerned that people are unnecessarily upsetting themselves, but let the feelings flow. It's probably even a relief to some just to get their thoughts out.

 

Finally, If you don't like what you're reading here, it upsets you, worries you, etc., etc., then the best advice I can give you is not to read the thread.

 

Thank you all very much for understanding and keeping things cool!

[Aldotsk]

... Guys, can we not insult each other and harass someone outside (even in here) of RPC? That's really not mature, and uncivilized.

 

People have their opinions and they are just speaking it, but it doesn't give you the right to harass someone because they disagree with you and tell you to stop complaining.

[Dogberry]

[video=youtube]

 

That sucks, Ruru. Hope your day isn't too shot.

[Zyrusticae]

By the way, to the person who decided to launch a huge curse laden rant to my skype because of my post, thank you for spoiling my day. I truly appreciate the class and friendship show to me there.

 

Makes me super appreciative I joined this community. :frustrated:

Rule #1 when dealing with angry people:

Never, EVER say their anger is unjustified.

 

I run into this kind of response so often it drives me bonkers. Why would you ever think that being unsympathetic would somehow make things better? It doesn't. It NEVER works. So don't do it. Please.

 

This goes for everybody. It should be an absolutely basic rule of thumb. There have been so many instances where I get angry at something and people are just like "well that's not even that bad" which only makes me angrier! Seriously, just don't... don't. Just... stop that. Really. I don't want to hear it and I'm pretty damn sure I'm not the only one who feels that way.

 

A little bit of sympathy goes a long, long way, you know?

[Aldotsk]

By the way, to the person who decided to launch a huge curse laden rant to my skype because of my post, thank you for spoiling my day. I truly appreciate the class and friendship show to me there.

 

Makes me super appreciative I joined this community. :frustrated:

Rule #1 when dealing with angry people:

Never, EVER say their anger is unjustified.

 

I run into this kind of response so often it drives me bonkers. Why would you ever think that being unsympathetic would somehow make things better? It doesn't. It NEVER works. So don't do it. Please.

 

This goes for everybody. It should be an absolutely basic rule of thumb. There have been so many instances where I get angry at something and people are just like "well that's not even that bad" which only makes me angrier! Seriously, just don't... don't. Just... stop that. Really. I don't want to hear it and I'm pretty damn sure I'm not the only one who feels that way.

 

A little bit of sympathy goes a long, long way, you know?

 

I still think it's wrong for the other person to insult and harass Ruru through skype.

[Warren Castille]

There's no harm in yelling "Would you listen to yourselves?!" sometimes.

 

Interesting you can have two aethrytes, though. Maybe I should have been late today so I can get that sweet discount when hopping cities...

[Kage]

So barring the lack of personal rooms... I can understand the pricing.

 

The debacle of availability is another matter.

[C'kayah Polaali]

To pin so much emotion on a house? To get so angry? So hurt? It.....it defies logic. And if this little (and yes in the grand scheme it is a little issue) matter is what breaks you from the game, or one man's letter from months ago....well then maybe you need a new hobby, or a new game. I will never be able to afford a home. Not a personal one nor a fake FC  home called a personal one either.  But I still enjoy the game. I find other things to entertain myself and not pin it all on one upcoming patch item.

I think the reason people responded badly to your post, Ruru, is because you're basically discounting all the work people did to be able to get a house. As others have said in this thread, the issue isn't price. It's availability. My small FC concentrated for a month on making the gil and ranking up to be able to buy a house. We have everything we need. Yet we don't have a house because all the small plots are gone. By saying that housing in this game is a little matter, you're saying that the work we did wasn't a big deal.

 

We're a RP FC. We're not an endgame or grinding FC. Yet we played as if we were for a month. We concentrated on gameplay that we don't enjoy because we needed to get the gil and rank. And now after all that time, it's for naught.

 

I've been using the metaphor of the atma weapon grind, and I still think it's a good one. Everyone in our FC did the equivalent of a full atma+book grind. Every single person. And now, at the end of all that, we're faced with the idea that maybe - maybe - we'll get our quest rewards in a month.

[Phayte]

By the way, to the person who decided to launch a huge curse laden rant to my skype because of my post, thank you for spoiling my day. I truly appreciate the class and friendship show to me there.

 

Makes me super appreciative I joined this community. :frustrated:

Rule #1 when dealing with angry people:

Never, EVER say their anger is unjustified.

 

I run into this kind of response so often it drives me bonkers. Why would you ever think that being unsympathetic would somehow make things better? It doesn't. It NEVER works. So don't do it. Please.

 

This goes for everybody. It should be an absolutely basic rule of thumb. There have been so many instances where I get angry at something and people are just like "well that's not even that bad" which only makes me angrier! Seriously, just don't... don't. Just... stop that. Really. I don't want to hear it and I'm pretty damn sure I'm not the only one who feels that way.

 

A little bit of sympathy goes a long, long way, you know?

 

I'm exactly the same way. That being said though, harassment also isn't acceptable and whoever just did that to Rurutani makes the community look bad as a whole. As much as anyone think we're moaning and groaning, we're just passionate and want to enjoy the game in all ways. It's no fun if you get some only to lean you could only enjoy 50% of the features.

[Zyrusticae]

I still think it's wrong for the other person to insult and harass Ruru through skype.

Oh, definitely. Shitting on all the work people put into prepping for housing and ignoring the fact that Yoshida blatantly lied to the playerbase isn't cool either. Bad form on display all around, quite frankly.

There's no harm in yelling "Would you listen to yourselves?!" sometimes.

Sometimes.

 

Just don't be surprised when they remove your head from your shoulders afterwards.

[LiadansWhisper]

So barring the lack of personal rooms... I can understand the pricing.

 

The debacle of availability is another matter.

 

The prospect of the availability never getting any better is really discouraging.  Even if they double the wards, that's only something like 4000 houses available total.  And they aren't evicting houses that are unused (which is both good and bad - on the one hand, it's frustrating that houses will sit unused when so many people are trying to get a spot, on the other hand, I cannot imagine how terrible it would be for an individual to lose a house after they had worked so very hard on it just because they had a gap in their playtime).