Are there any libraries in Eorzea?

[QueenFrejyalen]

I hope this is the right place to post this but...

 

Are there any libraries in Eorzea?  Or, specifically, in the three city-states?  I think a library would be a great RP location for people, but I don't actually know if there are any.

 

Dunno, just a thought.  If there isn't one canonically, does anyone "have" or "run" a library that their character is the "librarian" of?  If no one already "runs" a library IC, would anyone be interested in one if I set it up somehow (either in my FC house or otherwise)?

[Bumo]

The Arrzaneth Ossuary (thaumaturge's guild) in Ul'dah has a sizable library inside it. I'm not sure how open it is to the public though, lore-wise.

[Nebbs]

Someone does/did have a house they converted into an IC Library, I don't have this link to the post about it.

[QueenFrejyalen]

The Arrzaneth Ossuary (thaumaturge's guild) in Ul'dah has a sizable library inside it. I'm not sure how open it is to the public though, lore-wise.

 

Hmm...something to look into, to be sure!  Thanks!

 

 

 

Someone does/did have a house they converted into an IC Library, I don't have this link to the post about it.

 

Did they convert it into an IC library for like..the public, or just their personal library?  =oc

[Nebbs]

There was this one mentioned but not sure if active

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=4668&pid=77554#pid77554

 

The Eagle and Quill bookstore is currently under construction, and we have begun moving in books of every flavour and subject! We are currently in Ward 3, lot 10 of the Mist, just to the left when you enter.

[QueenFrejyalen]

There was this one mentioned but not sure if active

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=4668&pid=77554#pid77554

 

The Eagle and Quill bookstore is currently under construction, and we have begun moving in books of every flavour and subject! We are currently in Ward 3, lot 10 of the Mist, just to the left when you enter.

 

Gah, their last visit was in July...but maybe I can find them in-game and ask  D=

[Flickering Ember]

Eagle and Quill is active. I RPed with them the other day. Their entire house is built around it being a bookstore/library. I highly recommend checking it out. They are at Mist Ward 3 Plot 10.

 

Tinyurl.com/eaglequill for their floor plan.

[Ciel]

There's also the First Decastral Observatorium with the unnecessarily long name in Coerthas, due south of Camp Dragonhead.

[Marisa]

There's also the First Decastral Observatorium with the unnecessarily long name in Coerthas, due south of Camp Dragonhead.

Not exactly a *public* library, mind you. 

 

Being that most of Eorzea is illiterate, I'd imagine libraries are limited almost exclusively to organizations of academic types.

[QueenFrejyalen]

There's also the First Decastral Observatorium with the unnecessarily long name in Coerthas, due south of Camp Dragonhead.

Not exactly a *public* library, mind you. 

 

Being that most of Eorzea is illiterate, I'd imagine libraries are limited almost exclusively to organizations of academic types.

 

I had not considered that... I really did not know that most of Eorzea was illiterate.  =Oc   Thank you for the info on that, is there somewhere where I can read about Eorzean customs with reading/literature/information sciences (kind of ironic...reading about a lack of reading?  LOL)

 

And thank you Flickering Ember, I will definitely have to check that place out!! =D

[FreelanceWizard]

The lack of literacy is discussed in this dev post as something of an afterthought at the end of the post.

[Bumo]

Being that most of Eorzea is illiterate, I'd imagine libraries are limited almost exclusively to organizations of academic types.

 

The lack of literacy is discussed in this dev post as something of an afterthought at the end of the post.

 

That's really interesting. Looking at the prosperity of the three city-states, you'd assume the literacy rates would be high, at least within the cities proper. Low literacy rates would imply that there is no compulsory education system; any kind of tutoring then would depend on wealth and social status. Books themselves would be expensive because of this as well--if you look at the cost of books in England during the Middle Ages, where education was primarily for nobility, it would take nearly a decade for an average craftsman to earn enough wages to purchase a book.

 

It's interesting to think of from a character point of view; coming from a literate society in real life, where there is a formal education system, most people probably automatically assume that their characters can read, unless they want it to be a notable part of their background that they can't. But that bit of lore says that most people in Eorzea can't read, and so people whose professions or social standing didn't demand learning letters probably don't know how.

[allgivenover]

 

That's really interesting. Looking at the prosperity of the three city-states, you'd assume the literacy rates would be high. Low literacy rates would imply that there is no compulsory education system; any kind of tutoring then would depend on wealth and social status. Books themselves would be expensive because of this as well--

 

This is exactly how it is for non adventurers.

 

It's interesting to think of from a character point of view; coming from a literate society in  real life...

 

...most people probably automatically assume that their characters can read, unless they want it to be a notable part of their background that they can't.

 

This is exactly what happened with the community.

 

Also RPC post from fanfest. Woo.

[Chillsmack]

That's really interesting. Looking at the prosperity of the three city-states, you'd assume the literacy rates would be high, at least within the cities proper. Low literacy rates would imply that there is no compulsory education system; any kind of tutoring then would depend on wealth and social status. Books themselves would be expensive because of this as well--if you look at the cost of books in England during the Middle Ages, where education was primarily for nobility, it would take nearly a decade for an average craftsman to earn enough wages to purchase a book.

A great deal of why books were so expensive and rare though is because of how they were created. Printing presses changed that and by the 18th century and 19th century books and especially novellas became so easy to obtain that in many cities around London books could be borrowed on an honor system (I can't remember what they called those kind of bookstores though - they weren't quite libraries since they mostly dealt in cheap penny-novels that were primarily fiction).

 

Given the blend of genres that have always defined the FF series, I would be willing to pay good money in betting that Eorzea has printing presses: they have guns, astrological equipment, and steamworks afterall, and I believe newspapers have been mentioned before (though I might be mistake). This would tell me that books are more common-place than compared to real-life medieval Europe.

 

At the same time, though, if there is no formal education system then it makes perfect sense that most Eorzeans are still illiterate: it's simply an uneven distribution of education rather than wealth, and for the working civilian, much like it was for much of human history, knowing how to read doesn't help you put food on the table so it isn't something a lot of common folk bother to learn. Despite the presence of machinery and technology, Eorzea still seems to be a mishmash of technological periods that never quite reach the Industrial Revolution, thus the city-states remain largely agrarian and why perhaps education is still not widespread.

 

It's interesting to think of from a character point of view; coming from a literate society in real life, where there is a formal education system, most people probably automatically assume that their characters can read, unless they want it to be a notable part of their background that they can't. But that bit of lore says that most people in Eorzea can't read, and so people whose professions or social standing didn't demand learning letters probably don't know how.

 

This is a common issue with the Fantasy genre in general: people can't or don't want to wrap their minds around living standards and paradigms that do not mirror the present, industrial world. It's why so much of the genre itself has become diluted with an over abundance of easy-living high fantasy versus the gritty hardships of low fantasy (I'm more of a low-fantasy kinda man myself).

[FreelanceWizard]

Yep, newspapers definitely do exist, seeing as Ellie (of the Hildibrand quests) is a reporter for one and you interact with reporters in the Lightning Returns quests. My thought is that the way to reconcile that with the lore is that these are all aimed at the intelligentsia, and that adventurers on the whole fall into that literate category. If you read a bit further in that thread I linked, a player asks why all the "No Entry" signs are around, and the dev coyly states, "Those are for adventurers," or something to that effect. The implication I get from that is that professional adventurers typically are literate, while the average Eorzean isn't. I assume the various papers also hire criers to get their message out to the masses, but that they largely cater specifically to adventurers and the well-heeled (the rich, the powerful, and the magically inclined -- this sounds like the title of a soap opera ).

[Sounsyy]

The implication I get from that is that professional adventurers typically are literate, while the average Eorzean isn't.

 

So interesting thing to bring up about this. Eorzeans are noted as being vastly illiterate, right? While adventurers are hinted and winked at being (for the most part) able to read. What do we know about the Player Character adventurers? They aren't from Eorzea...

 

Let's combine that with the answer Fernehalwes gave at yesterday's lore panel in regards to cross-racial relationships. He starts off by saying "adventurers come from different lands. From places slightly more progressive."

 

What if the real reason the Player Character Adventurers can read is just because they're from outside Eorzea?

 

The Goblins went on the Great Pilgrimage 100 years ago to Othard and Ilsabard to attain vast knowledge. We have Thavnair's Great Library. We have the (Island) Sharlayans to the north of Eorzea who are the keepers of knowledge. Garlemald teaches its soldiers to read so they can read/recognize Louisoux's intercepted letters. ( Faded Page )

 

Is Eorzea just that backwaters of a place? "A blighted realm..." Gaius van Baelsar described it. We're just that savage and have suffered so many calamities and wars and shifting alliances and political backstabs that in the 5000 years since the Allagan Empire we've just never had a chance to recover all that knowledge?

 

Outside foreign adventurers (I think the distinction should be made, because a native Eorzean adventurer is probably still illiterate) it's kind of interesting to think about who else would be able to read? Members of the Order of Nald'thal, the Arcanists of Melvaan's Gate, Ishgardian astrologians / Holy See, Goblins, Levemetes... probably more I'm not thinking of at the moment, but I think I'm just rambling now.

[Marisa]

If we picked 5 random adventurers out of Eorzea's largest and pointiest bag, I'd guess 4 of them would be illiterate. Hence the heavy use of pictures in quest materials. 

As for the newspapers, I'd imagine it's like the real world where community leaders would hold town gatherings and read the news to all of their illiterate neighbors.

[FreelanceWizard]

I'd definitely think arcanists would pretty much have to be literate, given the nature of their guild and the style of their magic. Everyone else, well... from the volume of books in the Thaumaturges' guild, I suspect most of them are literate, but I don't think there's anything in their magic style that requires literacy. I can't think of any reason any of the other classes would require literacy either.

 

It's an interesting point, though, about adventurers being from other lands. A common interpretation is "not the three city-states," but if we're talking places that aren't Eorzea, that throws a lot of character concepts for a loop. That said, I wouldn't necessarily given Gaius too much credit for calling it accurately. I mean, to a Garlean, every realm not part of the Empire is a blighted backwater, I'm sure.

 

On the plus side, I don't think the whole literacy thing alters RP that much. It just means that characters who are literate need a narrative justification for why, as opposed to just assuming literacy is the norm. When the original dev post dropped, I had to alter L'yhta so that her mother didn't teach her letters, but rather her mentor, because I too incorrectly assumed that literacy was the norm (as it appears to be in several other FF games).

[LiadansWhisper]

The implication I get from that is that professional adventurers typically are literate, while the average Eorzean isn't.

 

So interesting thing to bring up about this. Eorzeans are noted as being vastly illiterate, right? While adventurers are hinted and winked at being (for the most part) able to read. What do we know about the Player Character adventurers? They aren't from Eorzea...

 

Let's combine that with the answer Fernehalwes gave at yesterday's lore panel in regards to cross-racial relationships. He starts off by saying "adventurers come from different lands. From places slightly more progressive."

 

What if the real reason the Player Character Adventurers can read is just because they're from outside Eorzea?

 

The Goblins went on the Great Pilgrimage 100 years ago to Othard and Ilsabard to attain vast knowledge. We have Thavnair's Great Library. We have the (Island) Sharlayans to the north of Eorzea who are the keepers of knowledge. Garlemald teaches its soldiers to read so they can read/recognize Louisoux's intercepted letters. ( Faded Page )

 

Is Eorzea just that backwaters of a place? "A blighted realm..." Gaius van Baelsar described it. We're just that savage and have suffered so many calamities and wars and shifting alliances and political backstabs that in the 5000 years since the Allagan Empire we've just never had a chance to recover all that knowledge?

 

Outside foreign adventurers (I think the distinction should be made, because a native Eorzean adventurer is probably still illiterate) it's kind of interesting to think about who else would be able to read? Members of the Order of Nald'thal, the Arcanists of Melvaan's Gate, Ishgardian astrologians / Holy See, Goblins, Levemetes... probably more I'm not thinking of at the moment, but I think I'm just rambling now.

 

What if knowledge is simply held in oral tradition in Eorzea?

[FreelanceWizard]

I bet a fair amount of it is, especially among, say, Conjurers.

 

I decided to wander around a bit the other night and see where else writing shows up:

• There's schedules and signage in the airship landings.
  
• The airship landings also have lots of file drawers behind the desk.
  
• One of the early quests outside the Gladiators' Guild has you putting posters up for a match, though there's no statement about any text on those.
  
• You sign your name to the Adventurers' Guild roster in the starting quests, though you wouldn't need to be literate to do that (you could just "make your mark").
  
• The hunt mark bills have "flavor" text on them, but that's not necessary to understand their purpose.
  
• There's the ubiquitous "No Entry" signs.
  
• The Observatorium and the Thaumaturges' Guild both have substantial libraries.
  
• A certain mad Conjurer does some writing in blood in a particular Expert dungeon.
  
• A market board would really have to use writing, though I think it's safe to say the board is just an abstraction for the act of "wandering the market" (which in 1.0 used to involve actually wandering the market ) and can be safely ignored.
  

 

It's interesting that there almost seems to be two classes of people in Eorzea with regards to literacy -- the small (and seemingly well-to-do or politically powerful) literate class and the larger illiterate masses. The places that cater to the first group, such as the airship services, have a lot more texts than those that don't.

[QueenFrejyalen]

Two things:

1. Great information in everyone's responses; it's clear that the instances in which one would be literate or highly literate in Eorzea would depend on their line of work or upbringing, not just the public education of the people.  
    
   I think my character Frejyalen is literate (as she was educated in politics and culture as a future Queen), but I hadn't considered whether my character Miounne would be literate.. might have to think on that one.
    
   
2. I went over to the Eagle & Quill, as was suggested to me here.  It was a lovely place, with lovely people, and I will be frequenting their FC house for RPing until I get my own (and still probably after).  So thanks to those who helped me out!
   

[Dasair]

In terms of literacy, there are a few quests which deal with letters and notes being delivered to other people, and in one case, it appears to be between commoners (The one somewhere in the Shroud where a woman who carries herself as 'nothing special' has received a letter from a thief seeking her affections, and is worried about it.  I don't remember the exact location, but I have screenshots of it buried somewhere in the pile I've taken for lore reasons.)  However, many more of them are between officials, merchants, or people of a higher standing.  And interestingly, I've noticed, often times when there is a 'letter exchange', the letter will be read aloud to you upon it being received.

 

I always thought this was a little weird, at least compared to our culture; people don't usually read letters aloud to others unless the letter is actually addressed to them too.  Thus, at first, I thought this was merely done as a story mechanism, so the player would know what the letter said, but in knowing that most Eorzians are likely illiterate.. I actually wonder if this is common practice; if the literate and learned are accustomed to reading aloud as a courtesy to others who may not be able to decipher the words.  Honestly, I think that would be an interesting little culture quirk, if it were the case.

[Sounsyy]

I actually wonder if this is common practice; if the literate and learned are accustomed to reading aloud as a courtesy to others who may not be able to decipher the words.  Honestly, I think that would be an interesting little culture quirk, if it were the case.

 

That's actually... a really interesting way to think about it. =o I like it!

 

Also, if we're thinking the same quest it's called "The Kindness of Strangers" from Emeria in Hyrstmill. Where she believes she's being stalked by a bandit named Ailbert, and when you kill Ailbert you find a letter on his person describing his undying affections towards Emeria.

[Dasair]

That's actually... a really interesting way to think about it. =o I like it!

 

Also, if we're thinking the same quest it's called "The Kindness of Strangers" from Emeria in Hyrstmill. Where she believes she's being stalked by a bandit named Ailbert, and when you kill Ailbert you find a letter on his person describing his undying affections towards Emeria.

 

Yee~  I kind of like it too.  It could be an interesting thing to utilize in RP sometimes, if it were the case.  :>

 

And yeah!  That's the quest~  I'm glad my vague description was deciphered, thanks for clarifying that.

[Ilwe'ran]

Don't forget all the mog mail quests as well

http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Delivery_Moogle_Quests