Retconning

[Aduu Avagnar]

as to the garlean mages, I could have sworn it was established in 1.0 that pure-blooded garleans were unable to use magic.

[Verranicus]

as to the garlean mages, I could have sworn it was established in 1.0 that pure-blooded garleans were unable to use magic.

The official lore says pure-blooded Garleans generally can't use magic and any mages you see are conscripts or from conquered territories. However, magic using pure-blooded or half-blooded Garleans aren't impossible, just very VERY rare.

 

So even if it's possible, don't try to be a special snowflake and do it anyway.

[Aduu Avagnar]

as to the garlean mages, I could have sworn it was established in 1.0 that pure-blooded garleans were unable to use magic.

The official lore says pure-blooded Garleans generally can't use magic and any mages you see are conscripts or from conquered territories. However, magic using pure-blooded or half-blooded Garleans aren't impossible, just very VERY rare.

 

So even if it's possible, don't try to be a special snowflake and do it anyway.

well, that was before the lore panel, it is now stated categorically that they can't. and besides nothing has /ever/ stopped people that want to be a special snowflake from doing it.

[Delilah Scythewood]

I don't really have anything I have to worry about much with Lili in regards to the newly revealed lore. I think the most is that her and her previous mate talked about having children a lot at one point, but since we both thought having children between races wasn't possible it became an interesting topic between them. But it's also something I've seen open a lot of door for crossrace couples I've seen who thought that they couldn't mate either who are now excited that lore wise that is a possibility.

 

There's also those who are just going to stick with what they've been doing whether it's lore certified or not simply because it's what they've been doing for so long. It's become such an ingrained part of their story that taking it away might alter everything.

 

Alas, it's something that's going to vary from character to character and circumstance to circumstance.

[Berrod Armstrong]

as to the garlean mages, I could have sworn it was established in 1.0 that pure-blooded garleans were unable to use magic.

The official lore says pure-blooded Garleans generally can't use magic and any mages you see are conscripts or from conquered territories. However, magic using pure-blooded or half-blooded Garleans aren't impossible, just very VERY rare.

 

So even if it's possible, don't try to be a special snowflake and do it anyway.

The lore panel stated that it's genetically impossible for them to.

 

Nako, it was established that they were unable, yes! The question on the lore panel was more of 'why'. To that, they answered that it was a genetic thing!

[Kellach Woods]

I'm fortunate that for me it might only happen once the entire world map of Hydaelyn is revealed and then my backstory of a farmboy from another continent will hella fall through, and so will the flavor I'm writing for my character.

 

I'm wagering it will be YEARS before this happens - so I'm kinda safe from that.

[Warren Castille]

I'm fortunate that for me it might only happen once the entire world map of Hydaelyn is revealed and then my backstory of a farmboy from another continent will hella fall through, and so will the flavor I'm writing for my character.

 

I'm wagering it will be YEARS before this happens - so I'm kinda safe from that.

 

Vana'diel's more than a decade old and we still don't know the layout of the planet. You're probably fine.

[Gaspard]

as to the garlean mages, I could have sworn it was established in 1.0 that pure-blooded garleans were unable to use magic.

The official lore says pure-blooded Garleans generally can't use magic and any mages you see are conscripts or from conquered territories. However, magic using pure-blooded or half-blooded Garleans aren't impossible, just very VERY rare.

 

So even if it's possible, don't try to be a special snowflake and do it anyway.

The lore panel stated that it's genetically impossible for them to.

 

Nako, it was established that they were unable, yes! The question on the lore panel was more of 'why'. To that, they answered that it was a genetic thing!

 

Seconded. It was quite clear in many refferences that pureblooded garlean had 'no talent whatsoever' in regards to Aether. Some, perhaps in hope, clinged to this little concept 'but there surely got be an exception?', which was a risky play that has now officially backfired.

 

 

Either way. Retconning for Convenience is a big no-no for me. Some people like to take liberties, and I'm not going to judge that outright, however my character 'will' form his opinion on you based on all the things we've gone through, all the things he might know of you, and so on. If you, through whatever means, switch that up head-first, it destroys the continuity.

 

I understand if there are outlying OOC reasons beyond convenience, such as a certain player dissappearing without a word while alot of the plot hinges on him, or other such details. However, Retconning for convenience (I don't wanna be the bad guy) or (I don't like the consequences I'm getting) Is on par with god-modding, as it's then used as a method to avoid your character being harmed/negatively impacted. Do that when you write an own story, but not when you have players to work with that rely on a certain continuity in order to make things work.

[Flickering Ember]

Wait, this game has lore? Could have fooled me....

 

 

Joking aside, I don't think it's possible to not have at least parts of your character in grey areas of the lore, seeing as how we don't even really know anything like what kind of culture we're in. We can make guesses from how NPCs act but all the important stuff is left in the dark. The devs could at any time lore bomb anyone with info that no one would ever expect. It's inevitable when none of our characters are canon.

 

That said, I'm not a fan of retconning but recognize other RPers will need to do it at some point, possibly even myself. I try to work around retconning if possible by offering up alternative explanations but I will scrap those and retcon anyway if they're too implausible/not very fun ideas.

[Warren Castille]

Joking aside, I don't think it's possible to not have at least parts of your character in grey areas of the lore, seeing as how we don't even really know anything like what kind of culture we're in. We can make guesses from how NPCs act but all the important stuff is left in the dark. The devs could at any time lore bomb anyone with info that no one would ever expect. It's inevitable when none of our characters are canon.

 

That's not entirely accurate. Anyone playing a "humble beginnings' sort of storyline is going to be fine. Coming from one of the main cities should be fine. It's when you start getting into double-secret Ishgarlevanian heritages and dabbling in forces that are implied but not expanded on you get into trouble.

[Aduu Avagnar]

as to the garlean mages, I could have sworn it was established in 1.0 that pure-blooded garleans were unable to use magic.

The official lore says pure-blooded Garleans generally can't use magic and any mages you see are conscripts or from conquered territories. However, magic using pure-blooded or half-blooded Garleans aren't impossible, just very VERY rare.

 

So even if it's possible, don't try to be a special snowflake and do it anyway.

The lore panel stated that it's genetically impossible for them to.

 

Nako, it was established that they were unable, yes! The question on the lore panel was more of 'why'. To that, they answered that it was a genetic thing!

 

Seconded. It was quite clear in many refferences that pureblooded garlean had 'no talent whatsoever' in regards to Aether. Some, perhaps in hope, clinged to this little concept 'but there surely got be an exception?', which was a risky play that has now officially backfired.

 

 

Either way. Retconning for Convenience is a big no-no for me. Some people like to take liberties, and I'm not going to judge that outright, however my character 'will' form his opinion on you based on all the things we've gone through, all the things he might know of you, and so on. If you, through whatever means, switch that up head-first, it destroys the continuity.

 

I understand if there are outlying OOC reasons beyond convenience, such as a certain player dissappearing without a word while alot of the plot hinges on him, or other such details. However, Retconning for convenience (I don't wanna be the bad guy) or (I don't like the consequences I'm getting) Is on par with god-modding, as it's then used as a method to avoid your character being harmed/negatively impacted. Do that when you write an own story, but not when you have players to work with that rely on a certain continuity in order to make things work.

I am in agreement fully with this. (the retconning bit). I know of at least one person who did some stupid shit and then tried to get the other people to agree to a retcon, even though they weren't having it. I firmly stand in the 'you made your bed, now lay in it.' camp.

[DreamedReality]

I don't see myself retconning Jaques very heavily, if at all. Even as more Duskwight clans come to light. I did do the whole 'special snowflake' thing with that clan. Because we do know that strange little sects exist within Eorzea such as cults and the like... I sort of did that for his backstory. Taking inspiration from the little sects that exist and function within our own modern day world. Then creating one I thought fit into Eorzea but wouldn't be taken as a threat and hunted. No necromancy or religious sacrifices there!

 

So even if more Dusky clans come to light I don't see his clan changing or his upbringing being all that different than how I had it. Just gives me further clues and ideas as to -how much- his clan deviated from the norm. Especially since his deviations are all character and flavor rather than any sort of ability or strange magics.

 

That said... they still haven't answered any Dusky related questions. *sigh* And everything else they answered really doesn't affect Jaques or my alts that much.

[Verranicus]

Dunno why so many people have to make their character into something super unique or unlikely in the first place. A good RPer should be able to work within "the norm" for whatever world they're in without needing to use gray areas that could potentially end up making their characters non-canon.

 

You should make your character unique by what they go through in-character and how they develop from it, not by giving yourself the most special snowflake backstory you can imagine.

 

My character will call out anyone claiming to be from a "far off land" who can't go into explicit detail about their homeland because it may or may not exist just because they couldn't fit their character into the confines of the established lore.

[Titor]

As a really, really minor point I had made Titor have the echo, only, and ONLY for the reason that he would be able to understand multiple languages and speak them. Being a doctor, I thought this would be helpful for him, and would make sense for Hydaelyn to gifted Titor with the echo for this use since his is definitely a good-aligned doctor and would only use the echo gift for great good.

 

However, in the lore panel they were saying that the echo was SUPER MUCH MORE RARE than the in-game story had made it out to be. So... I am not sure.

 

I really liked the idea of Titor being able to at least understand all languages for the intents of purposes of being a doctor and wanting to aid people in need, but he would not have gone out of his way to study every language for such a purpose, just due to lack of time in his life.

 

Like, I am kind of maybe thinking of retconning it? I brought it up like-- once ICly maybe in passing with someone I had not really rped with a bunch.. Not sure.

 

How would others feel about him having the Echo for the purpose of being able to communicate with anyone who may be his patient, because I really liked the concept, and if there is no major opposition I would like to keep it.

[Gaspard]

It depends how you personally feel about it. If the echo had any plot value to you and in, any way or shape formed your character because it is 'the echo', as simply opposed to a tool to give him all languages, you can either keep it, seeing as there might not be any harm in it (and potential use for the echo in plot-lines etc). I heavily doubt however anyone would take offense to having the echo in this minor offset only for lingusitic purposes.

 

Ofcourse, if you still harbor doubts or feel itchy about it, you can simply go with Titor being some kind of savant, confusing it with the echo. There are people out there who where able to learn languages within hours thanks to an enormous memorizing capacity. Though I think the Savant syndrome usually just kicks in in math fields and the likes, less in languages.

[Aldotsk]

My character will call out anyone claiming to be from a "far off land" who can't go into explicit detail about their homeland because it may or may not exist just because they couldn't fit their character into the confines of the established lore.

 

Even  though it already gives plenty of hint in future patch and events that far east exists? People experiment and work out their character everyday to make something new into the story. Snowflake or not, not everyone plays an empty character - especially when  it's still vague enough for each race by their certain tribe and racial behaviors.

 

So I mean, would you be this kind of person and challenge their character like this because it confines established lore? "Why are you a Sworn and in a duty when you are not next to Sultana protecting her? That's questioning the lore"

 

Or even "How are you able to use  muskets when the lore clearly closed the musketeer guild?"

 

A good RPer should be able to work within "the norm" for whatever world they're in without needing to use gray areas that could potentially end up making their characters non-canon

 

There are plenty of good writers and good RPers who always edit and work on their characters all the time. Good artists and good writers will -never- say their works are masterpiece and it is done. They adjust and work on it more or rebrush it to improve it. What you are saying is just completely difficult for anyone to  do something new and challenge for once. 

 

We aren't all conformists. Some end up being a rebel or some end up being  something  different. It's human nature. In -lore- we may not  be all same human/homo sapiens, but they surely behave and think the same like regular humans in the real world do. They just can't create cellphone yet.

 

 

So even if it's possible, don't try to be a special snowflake and do it anyway

 

That's not gonna happen because some of us like something different from everyone else.

 

I always find it funny when people run away with stuff the game gives little to no information on with their characters and then either have to backpedal to the point of losing weeks/months of RP or keep RPing a then non-canon thing despite it.

 

I'm waiting for more information on Othard/Doma/the Far East to come out down the road to show how silly it is for all of these people with japanese-y names to be running around claiming to be from there.

 

And yet there are plenty of hints and plenty of cultural explanations of Doma/Far east from the NPCs. So who are you to say that it  doesn't exist because lore didn't explain it 100%? There is less information about Ala Mhigans fully 100% and that applies to Duskwights or any type of races besides what is given to us. 

 

Not all Japanese-y names are from Doma and they RP with others. Are you going to criticize them for that too?

 

EDIT:

I'd like to add that FFXI had vague lore for samurais and ninjas because they are also from far east but  the lores  were sliced off and people RPed making their own plots back then. It still hasnt been explained fully.

 

"Creativity is just connecting things. When you ask creative people how they did something, they feel a little guilty because they didn't really do it, they just saw something. It seemed obvious to them after a while. That's because they were able to connect experiences they've had and synthesize new things." -Steve Jobs

 

 

"Creativity involves breaking out of established patterns in order to look at things in a different way" - Edward de Bono

[Gaspard]

This has nothing to do with Conformism or Rebellion. You're applying socio-economic motivations towards Roleplaying.

 

Roleplaying never is an individualistic, 'I make my own char, everything else doesn't matter, and everyone who thinks else can bite me because I see it that way' game. 

 

Roleplaying is based on teamwork and playing in a cohesive, synchronized world for all players. This implies, and also demands that all adhere to the same rules/guidelines/settings, which for roleplayers largely is 'the lore', aside from behavioral rules such as 'no godmodding/metagaming'. Most times, roleplayers don't stick to the lore to be no-fun fudgecakes. It is to ensure everyone can play with everyone, and because it avoids 'alot' of issues that may rise ahead.

 

So I mean, would you be this kind of person and challenge their character like this because it confines established lore? "Why are you a Sworn and in a duty when you are not next to Sultana protecting her? That's questioning the lore"

 

Or even "How are you able to use  muskets when the lore clearly closed the musketeer guild?"

 

The first example I can agree on. Asfar I recall, the Lore never explicitly hinted at the Sultansworns nature. Some people have pulled the argument of likening it to the 'American Secret Service', Which operates outside of simply body-guarding the president, but the Sultansworn may be just glorified bodyguards, who's duties truly never exceed sitting around the sultanas palace. But I'm too uninormed lore wise on that part. Though, should it be the case that all instances of Sultansworn presented shows them as 'only bodyguards/around the sultanas' palace, then yes, the people playing sultansworn in that fashion have taken liberties they're trying to deny you now, IF it's those people you feel criticized by.

 

The latter example doesn't work. A closed Musketeer Guild (Thus, a faction), Does not in the slightest imply that the weapon (A Musket), was outlawed or banned or removed from Markets, nor that the knowledge of how to operate a musket has been lost. It would be akin to saying that, once the Gladiators Guild would shut down, people would forget how to use a sword over the years.

 

There are plenty of good writers and good RPers who always edit and work on their characters all the time. Good artists and good writers will -never- say their works are masterpiece and it is done. They adjust and work on it more or rebrush it to improve it. What you are saying is just completely difficult for anyone to  do something new and challenge for once.

 

'Rebrushing' and changing your characters background isn't considered improving. It's called Retconning. So while writers may do that, Roleplayers generally strive away from it for reasons mentioned multiple times in other topics. If you want new and challenging, create a new and challenging character to play. Don't Retcon your established  character to fit your current..desire. Unless it happens in a character-development arc that does not involve retconning.

 

If you want a new and challenging edge, make a new character that is new and challenging to play. Don't hack and patch up your  current character to fit your current flavor.

 

 

 

Now to your EDIT: bit,

 

Steve Jobs was in the business of selling products to customers. His sense of Creativity and innovation reffered to productive and quality of life products, to sell. When roleplaying, you're not selling a product for others to buy. Different concepts of Creativity and productivity at work.

 

Moreso, one can argue that IT-developers aren't artists but engineers. Different values at work.

 

Moreso, wanting to play a Samura/Ninja from an unexplained / undefined Culture in no way is creative, nor are the Sub-tropes Samurai/Ninja. They're perhaps less present and popular amongst the roleplayers at this time (Specifically through the lack of information), and the creative nature of Roleplaying does not rest in breaking Lore and character-forms and logics to create a 'flashing' unique character, but to create unique untold stories through a team-effort with other characters and writers. Again, Roleplaying is not about individualistic fulfillment through being the most unique/unplayed person ever to grace the community, It's about the stories these characters write and tell with other characters. 

 

 

That being said; I've played more of a devils advocate in this post. I personally do not mind characters from Othard/Doma, or other peoples desire to have 'special' characters and/or imbue some of their more favorite tropes into their characters. But I find it important that these people don't dillude themselves in selling it as a higher-form of more interesting, creative characters. You add those details for your own individualistic reasons, in spite of it becoming perhaps a burden on what I would call the 'shared world' all roleplayers partake in. You can do that, but atleast make sure that your character is then balanced/written out well enough so that he doesn't become a burden on that environment, but rather an addition.

 

And in order to do that, you 'must' make your character lore compliant, and any unique additions you wish to instill. Aslong you make sure your characters plausible in the limitations of the lore, what you play and add is plausible in the lore, and it doesn't stand in stark opposition, it is fine. But don't straight-out ignore potential future issues out of personal convenience because you want to do X or Y.

[Warren Castille]

Uh... Hey guys? The ones talking about Sultansworn roles? You know how I know you haven't done the Ul'dah MSQ and Paladin questline?

[Aldotsk]

Uh... Hey guys? The ones talking about Sultansworn roles? You know how I know you haven't done the Ul'dah MSQ and Paladin questline?

 

I was just throwing there because there is always people that still brings it up like everyday (just like three days ago at Coerthas where people were arguing about it on shout chat regarding free Paladins and sworns)

[Warren Castille]

Uh... Hey guys? The ones talking about Sultansworn roles? You know how I know you haven't done the Ul'dah MSQ and Paladin questline?

 

I was just throwing there because there is always people that still brings it up like everyday (just like three days ago at Coerthas where people were arguing about it on shout chat regarding free Paladins and sworns)

 

...you know how I know they haven't started in Ul'dah or done the paladin quests either?

 

:tonberry:

[Gaspard]

Grumpy mindreading abilities based on a hairlock of roman reigns.

 

or; just tell us?

[Aldotsk]

Uh... Hey guys? The ones talking about Sultansworn roles? You know how I know you haven't done the Ul'dah MSQ and Paladin questline?

 

I was just throwing there because there is always people that still brings it up like everyday (just like three days ago at Coerthas where people were arguing about it on shout chat regarding free Paladins and sworns)

 

...you know how I know they haven't started in Ul'dah or done the paladin quests either?

 

:tonberry:

 

I am pretty sure a lot of us know, but that still doesn't change that people still bring this up for discussions just like how people keep saying that -no one- is allowed to use white magics. When it is -possible- but you won't be welcomed in Shrouds or Gridania for breaking their rule.

 

Many people will bring up unnecessary topics because they feel that it's something to point out to prevent players from make their backgrounds interesting, or something fitting into this game.

 

Also this game's lore is still vague and it's still open to many players to do whatever they want because it's MMORPG. An open world and open plot opportunity for your character to freely what you choose to do. 

 

While Gaspard made some points, but I disagree regardless. People can make whatever they want and fix whichever they wish. If they want to recreate a character, then it's their choice too. I don't see a problem on someone early progressing the story and writing something then retconning it. There was no rule saying "You can't just simply retcon when you already wrote a story into it." - This applies to ANY retcon even if it's not violating to lores.

 

It's like if your character is in a relationship with someone else and it got too complicated or the opposite player has been MIA for any reasons, you have to retcon it and let everyone else know and chances are that some people would just say "you can't just retcon the IC friendship/relationship because you want to" - but you want to retcon it. It is that person's choice if there is too much complication to it. Similar to retconning to be a villain and then say "Oh, I don't want to be a villain and start over my character" and yes, you can retcon if you wish.

 

The issue for some people to look down on retcon on any circumstances is that they feel that "once you made it and once you've said something ICly, then you have to keep to it". Says who? The cool thing about MMORPG RP is that you can change it when you wish to, in order to make yourself satisfied. I've seen many RP elitists who look down on it, but they shouldn't. It's NOT their character, instead they should respect other player's wish for retconning.

[Kage]

Just for the sake of everyone, Warren should just share his secrets!

 

Kage is usually naturally suspicious of anyone who tells him of their very vague heritage. People have something to hide and he's done the same so he expects suspicion for it. Especially so when he was a Miqo'te and someone asked him from where he was from. Lol a miqo'te from a place inhabited by pretty much 100% Lalafell? LIAR.

 

I actually remember how someone I had met early on in game was feeling extremely dissatisfied with their RP and character. So they changed how the character reacted etc. The next time anyone RP'd with him they said "Oh no that's not how it happened. My character would not have reacted that way anymore; here's how it happened."

 

Very true, it is their right and their happiness that was affected by the RP. Would others have been able to adapt? Sure, but they are not required or obligated to. They have to now spend time figuring out how that retcon has not affected their -own- character. A "simple retcon" from one character could be big for another person's character.

 

For that reason alone I prefer to not deal with retconning. It becomes a case of "my character just doesn't care about so-and-so now."

[Gaspard]

Sure, it isn't their character.

 

But what you write isn't YOUR story. It is the story of those that you involve yourself with and your own. You can freely choose to have your character act the way you want to, play him the way you want to, but from the moment onwards you involve him with others and thus write a story 'WITH' them, it ceases to be only your property.

 

The details of your character and actions become part of other people stories aswell. The moment you retcon at that point you're not just changing your story, you're changing the story of others aswell, perhaps even against their wishes. If I for example choose to villify your character for his actions, have talks and plays based on those actions, and you decide to retcon it, you not only retcon your own actions, but also all the play I've based on 'your' actions.

 

So in essence;

 

You have all the right to play your character as you want to. It is your Character, You've 'created' him.

 

However;

 

You do NOT have the right to alter the SHARED Story you've written with others (In other words Roleplayed), just because it suits you better. This has nothing to do with Character ownership. You're dismantling a SHARED story to your own benefit.

[Aldotsk]

Sure, it isn't their character.

 

But what you write isn't YOUR story. It is the story of those that you involve yourself with and your own. You can freely choose to have your character act the way you want to, play him the way you want to, but from the moment onwards you involve him with others and thus write a story 'WITH' them, it ceases to be only your property.

 

The details of your character and actions become part of other people stories aswell. The moment you retcon at that point you're not just changing your story, you're changing the story of others aswell, perhaps even against their wishes. If I for example choose to villify your character for his actions, have talks and plays based on those actions, and you decide to retcon it, you not only retcon your own actions, but also all the play I've based on 'your' actions.

 

So in essence;

 

You have all the right to play your character as you want to. It is your Character, You've 'created' him.

 

However;

 

You do NOT have the right to alter the SHARED Story you've written with others (In other words Roleplayed), just because it suits you better. This has nothing to do with Character ownership. You're dismantling a SHARED story to your own benefit.

 

How are you changing the story shared with others when the following character is gone from the game due to "quitting" the game or story they were working on? It is not other players' business of what Player A and B does. If Player A had story focus with Player B for John and Jane, and then Player B and Jane goes completely missing, the other players shouldn't judge Player A for deciding to say Player B and Jane relationship has been severed and retconned. - It's unfair for Player A to unable to dismantle a story that's not going anywhere or has been half-assed written due to opposite player's actions.

 

Also there are MANY times when a person will be really not happy with who they are roleplaying and has played the character up to lvl 50 on all classes. Are you literally going to make them forcefully Fantasia and change their name because there is a "Story" shared between them? NO. You literally can't. It's unfair for that player to REMAKE a character or start something anew. You know how obnoxious it is for anyone to remake a character to high level in order to dress them up and have some kind of story with other players? Retconning is AT LEAST better. If other players cannot respect the Player A's decision on retconning because Player A is not happy with their character story or what-so-ever, then Player A should stop being friends or Roleplay with those players who cannot encourage Player A's actions.

 

It's like saying Player A should NOT change or retcon to give other player's benefit if you are to say the last statement to solely blame on Player A for being "selfish".