Kool-Aid Man'ing Through the Clique Wall

[Steel Wolf]

As I've stated in other threads in this forum, I've returned after a long stint away post 2.1. I missed this game and playing it does feel good, and despite a fair amount of its continued design decisions, it's good to be back. Genuinely. For srs.

 

The problem I have, however, is one I've experienced in MMOs that I've played in since time immemorial. The problem of insular, cliqued-off roleplay.

 

Even within my own FC, Aeon--who are excellent people as people, I do wanna clarify--feel like I'm outside looking in. They run events on days and times that progress a story that I can't take a part in because work...and I feel like I'd be interrupting somehow if I try to, like, strike up a conversation. Despite the fact that nobody in Aeon has given off that impression, I still feel this way and I don't know what the sh** to do to shake it.

 

So, okay, look to outside RP sources, right? Maybe try to break in to the barstool RP scene? But even then that feels itchy as hell to me too and can be hard to manage.

 

It likely doesn't help my own personal perception within my FC that I just quietly creep along, leveling my Warrior....I'm like a crazy cat lady, except instead of collecting cats I collect Leve allowances and talk to my chocobo like a creepy person talks to a body pillow.

 

I need help. I need to have that "She's All That" break-out moment...or "Taming of the Shrew" if you prefer the really literary version. I have to Kool-Aid Man my ass through this wall of cliques and personal indecision.

 

Has any of you felt this way? And what did you do to have that moment?

[Gegenji]

Felt that way and still do, doubly so since I haven't actually joined an FC yet. Little Chachan is an alt, after all, and I've been quickly trying to retread ground to get him up to speed and have access to everything. I even made a mad dash for Revanent's Hold well before the MSQ would've sent me there just so I had access to the aetheryte and everything there.

 

I don't know if I've wedged myself into a clique, or am just a hanger-on sitting on the edge eager to hop in when they'll let me, but I've managed to stumble across a few folks that I can RP fairly regularly with. There isn't much of a plot, per se, beyond "hey this happened/got mentioned" last time... which I think lets it be pretty open and free-form... and there hasn't really been any major events (beyond a theft and Chachan's durdling quest to become a hero).

 

I don't know if I've actually managed to "Kool-Aid Man" it, but I've just tried to be a bit more bold about jumping into RP if it seems like something Chachan would home in on. I'm also trying to break my habit about worrying overly-much about bothering folks and poking them via /tell to see if they're up for some RP.

 

So, I suppose the best I can offer is myself as a person to RP with. At least we have Gran as a talking point to start things off with. :blush:

[LiveVoltage]

Hrm. . . Generally, if you're missing event's then you probably need to find another RP FC that operates on whatever prime time you're on.

 

With that said, if you're shy, there is not much anyone can really do about that. It all comes down to the player having the nerve to take the dive to be able to initiate RP with others. Ive had to do it before, it can be unnerving but it's a rewarding RP experience in the end.

[Warren Castille]

I'll bite.

 

Hate to be the bearer of potentially bad news, but if it's group-based RP you're looking for, and the group you're in runs when you're not available... It might be time to look for a new group. Of course, that's the nuclear option.

 

It can be hard to strike up and find anything meaningful or fun with "randoms." Any given night in the can provide you with roleplay, but that's not crunchy enough all the time, right? It's bar talk. It's chatter. It's talking about the big things, but not the big things themselves. If you want an arc, you're not liable to find it milling around and discussing things over drinks.

 

So, what's the solution? I don't know! If it is a character arc you're looking for, you can always try to build it yourself, but that still comes down to solo writing. You could kick off a thread on the forums here and look for people to run along with. It's something I tend to do when I've got the itch to roleplay but don't have the means/time/group to do so. My first experience with the RPC here was a long (long, long) series of solo-posts that ended up being accompanied by others wishing to join.

 

It's going to sound selfish, and I suppose it is, really, but if you're not looking out for your needs or wants, you can't expect anyone else to. An already-churning FC storyline tends to not wait for many, so your options are limited, doubly-so because you're legitimately at work during those windows. Ask them if it's possible to move times? Ask them if there's anyone around for off-hours catch-up or sideplot?

[Delilah Scythewood]

Best thing to do is just thrust yourself out there.

 

Fo' seriously.

 

I was in an old FC before that was made up of friends who had known each other for years. Many of them had their own patterns and things they generally liked to do amongst themselves and it was a hard group to meld into because of it since if ever anything WAS happening it was always the same 2-5 people.

 

It wasn't until after I was out of the FC and had my character more actively in public and going out of my way to just DIVE into random RP did it explode. In some of the best possible ways. Granted, it left me with such a full plate of RP that I didn't have time to juggle all the people I wanted too or that I should have made time for, but it was one of the greatest decisions I made.

 

Cliques are every where. Best to roll up your sleeves, spit to the side, and start singing the 'Fuck it All' rendition of 'Let it Go' as you barrel on through :cactuar:

[Unnamed Mercenary]

I'm in agreement with what most of the people have said above. 

 

As unnerving as it can be, sometimes the only way to start RP is to be the one to initiate it, even in the possibility that it could crash and burn. Waiting for someone else to "figure out" that you're looking for RP, make the connection that you want to be involved, and find a way to insert you into a storyline that's currently running is not an average behavior. 

 

Yes, cliques form. Sometimes the members recognize that and are happy that way. Other times, they have no idea that they've formed some group that doesn't seem inviting. Only way to really find out is to ask. As others have said, if they're doing a lot of events that you'd like to be involved in, but can't due to time constraints, the responsibility does rely on you letting them know that. An inviting group will look for ways to accommodate more people, or will find alternatives to help get you involved. But it's that initial push that needs to be done. 

 

Best of luck with getting more involved. Remember, it's that initial communication that really makes all the difference! A group of people each waiting for someone to act will just sit there quietly.

[Steel Wolf]

Thank you everyone for your kind responses. I want to re-clarify again--I'm not trying to bad-mouth anyone in the FC I'm in. I feel as though these are all personal hurdles and nothing that, I can willfully say, were placed in front of me.

 

To that point....I'd rather not take the "nuclear option" as was put it. Not if I can help it, anyway.

 

I suppose it's perhaps just as simple as leaping in. It's hard to "just" do that though when one has built up this indecision and worry around themselves. It's rather a bit like the Qarn dungeon. Lemme explain.

 

I had been locked down from progressing the Main Scenario Quests because I had to do Qarn. I had never done Qarn. By the time I was in that part of the MSQ, Qarn was done so hard that being a tank without prior knowledge felt like a kiss of death. So, I didn't progress. I let the game languish on my desktop for months.

 

I return. Some folks in the FC very kindly dragged my silly arse through, out of practice with my Paladin tanking maneuvers and completely blind.

 

It was easy. Piss easy. Embarrassingly easy.

 

Maybe it's just that simple? Nah....can't be....can it?

 

Thanks for the encouragement guys. T^T

[Warren Castille]

You definitely weren't smearing your group and no one should interpret it that way. Sometimes schedules just don't sync up. Everyone should hopefully understand that.

[Aris]

I think we're going through a similar thing! Most are already in their own clique, and it's quite difficult to fit in with that. I find it very nerve wracking and sad knowing I haven't got a place anywhere, not just OOC but then I'll need my characters to fit in too.  

 

I'm get incredibly anxious just talking to people, and getting into roleplaying is definitely a big step! But it does seem like it's a case of just.. going for it. The first few times doing it will be the hardest, but it'll get easier. Ideally finding a group of people who are on at similar times as you (that's definitely my biggest problem as I'm in the EU) would be helpful. Perhaps try some different linkshells if you'd rather not leave your FC? I'm currently looking for a FC as well.

 

I haven't had the guts to do it with anyone yet, but if you don't mind a newbie I'd happily RP with you if you wanted a partner. Or perhaps I'll see you while we both hunt for a group to join. 

[xelliexell]

I might actually recommend pulling aside one of the leaders in your FC, expressing that you would like to be more involved, and ask for their suggestions on how you can do so. I'm sure that any FC or LS has some tools in place to help new or odd-timezone members keep up with the story. ^^

 

I know that reading a summary isn't the same as attending an event in person, but it can help to connect the dots! I'm sure that a leader of an RP LS or FC might also have additional suggestions on avenues you can use to "break in". After they offer those tools, it's just a matter of using them to the best of your ability!

[Unnamed Mercenary]

I return.  Some folks in the FC very kindly dragged my silly arse through, out of practice with my Paladin tanking maneuvers and completely blind.

 

It was easy.  Piss easy.  Embarrassingly easy.

 

Maybe it's just that simple? Nah....can't be....can it?

 

Thanks for the encouragement guys.  T^T

 

While I totally think WAR > PLD any day, yes. It's totally that easy! (disclaimer: with the right people)

 

As discussed in one of the other recent-ish topics about finding RP, a lot of the "really social" players might also be trying to figure out how to schedule the vastly larger amount of RP they want to do into the smaller time boxes they can do it. The same way it'd make your day to be randomly approached by a person looking to RP and hit it off, try making someone else too! Especially if you don't know them! There's no 100% chance of success, but it does work reasonably well. "Just" is a terrible word for these types of things though. It can be scary to "just" go and approach someone. Someone "just" may not be looking for that type of RP. But working on getting yourself out there is the Kool-aid man bursting through the wall experience. Show some awesome!

[Volk]

I definitely understand where you are coming from with this thread. I feel very similar, but am trying my best to change my experience. I know this isn't exactly sage-like wisdom or the answer you are looking for, but if you (or anyone else reading this thread for that matter) ever see my character around i truly mean it when I say that I am open to walk ups.

 

I'm hardly an RP socialite like some of these fine folks, but my typical modus operandi is to find one or two good friends ICly, then try to explore their network of friends and forge new connections and interests. I will say that Balmung seems like it is no place for the bashful and I've had to be a bit socially bold in places where I'd normally not be on occasion!

[Zhavi]

Pretty much I always feel like I have something to prove to everyone, maybe especially myself. But, I also want to rp. So, fuck it, if I see someone interesting I send them a pm and just hope that they'll be forgiving enough of my eccentricities and vagaries to want to keep rping with me. Some people ditch me after awhile, others stick with me for years (and I always have this nagging feeling that I'm being annoying, but eh). The only thing you can do is keep pushing and keep moving forward, because the other option is to not move forward at all. To me, the latter just isn't acceptable.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

I definitely understand where you are coming from with this thread. I feel very similar, but am trying my best to change my experience. I know this isn't exactly sage-like wisdom or the answer you are looking for, but if you (or anyone else reading this thread for that matter) ever see my character around i truly mean it when I say that I am open to walk ups.

 

I'm hardly an RP socialite like some of these fine folks, but my typical modus operandi is to find one or two good friends ICly, then try to explore their network of friends and forge new connections and interests. I will say that Balmung seems like it is no place for the bashful and I've had to be a bit socially bold in places where I'd normally not be on occasion!

 

^That's me. I leeched onto a couple people and slowly expanded. ...I've had about 6 months to do it, so my network's got quite a few people. The downside to wanting to RP with lots of people is itself though. How does one manage to RP with everyone?! 

 

I need their scheduling secrets

[Gegenji]

I definitely understand where you are coming from with this thread. I feel very similar, but am trying my best to change my experience. I know this isn't exactly sage-like wisdom or the answer you are looking for, but if you (or anyone else reading this thread for that matter) ever see my character around i truly mean it when I say that I am open to walk ups.

 

I'm hardly an RP socialite like some of these fine folks, but my typical modus operandi is to find one or two good friends ICly, then try to explore their network of friends and forge new connections and interests. I will say that Balmung seems like it is no place for the bashful and I've had to be a bit socially bold in places where I'd normally not be on occasion!

 

^That's me. I leeched onto a couple people and slowly expanded. ...I've had about 6 months to do it, so my network's got quite a few people. The downside to wanting to RP with lots of people is itself though. How does one manage to RP with everyone?! 

 

I need their scheduling secrets

 

I... I think that's kinda what I'm doing. I managed to start some RPs with a couple folks and Chachan's acquaintances have slowly begun to balloon out from there.

[MikoBehnen]

I'm new to RP so I'm still worried I'm going to do something wrong, but I'm a huge outgoing dork-wad both in game and out. I also make a super wing-woman for those less so, so I can hang out and randomly drag you into RPs with me if you want  

 

And if anyone sees me running around, feel free to just jump in and start something! I'm learning via practice makes perfect atm so the more interaction the better.

[Enteris]

I have to say I've run into the same issue as the OP. During our company's hiatus, I made an alt and joined another company. This company is bustling with all sorts of characters that are all wonderful to role play with... but it still feels very clique-y despite my best efforts to become part of the crowd. This is by no means meant to be an attack on that company or its members, but time zone difference means little when even the people that are on while I am on and actively attempting to be an accepted member still seem to prefer their little cliques.

 

Cliques are an unfortunately natural thing that are hard to avoid forming. Even my company can probably feel clique-y at times despite our best efforts to go out of our ways to rp with and involve every last member.

 

Another unfortunate truth is that these cliques aren't limited to free companies. "City-wide" cliques are a reality in this community as well. There is an in crowd in each city state that is fairly difficult to get accepted into, despite the friendly attempts made by the members of that clique. Again, not a statement against any members of the community, just a statement of my observations.

 

It is, of course, on the outsider to put in a fair attempt as well. You only get out of rp and communities as much as you are willing to put in.

 

As to your issue with your FC, speaking to leaders is indeed a good idea to attempt to see what can be done. However, I wouldn't recommend going into the conversation expecting the leaders to be willing to rearrange the entire company schedule to accommodate you. Put bluntly, without trying to be rude, if you join a company knowing full well that their timezones don't match up with yours... you have little room to complain. (Please note that is a general "you", not speaking to any specific person.) It would be rather nice for the company to accommodate you, but unrealistic and unfair to expect them to.

 

Edit: side note: autocorrect on a phone can be very annoying when typing a post of this size.

[Steel Wolf]

-really good stuff n' things that I'm snipping here for brevity's sake-

 

Wow, you did ALL THAT on a cellphone?! Gods love ya. My fat thumbs could never manage that.

 

I have large paws.

 

I would never assume an ENTIRE established FC would mold themselves around my schedule--that'd be just...pretty bloody arrogant of me, honestly. In my defense, I had no idea there would be a schedule conflict until I had posted and mentioned my schedule and stacked it against the calendar of events.

 

Be that as it may...getting myself out and about on the times I AM around seems the most obvious solution to this whole thing. Bee Gees backing track optional. I'm gonna have to plug my nose and jump into the deep end of the adult pool at one point or the other, I suppose.

[Gegenji]

Be that as it may...getting myself out and about on the times I AM around seems the most obvious solution to this whole thing.  Bee Gees backing track optional.  I'm gonna have to plug my nose and jump into the deep end of the adult pool at one point or the other, I suppose.

 

It still scares me to do that sometimes, so don't feel bad if you get nervous about doing it.

 

Also, sometimes just doing oddball things will draw people in. I got into a... rather amusing RP recently just from having Chachan running around the Quicksand like a dork. High-strung dude who wanted to be a 'Sworn flipped and was shouting about how the Lala would trip and bust his head open and die... or trip up someone else with similar results. :lol:

 

It was both goofy and entertaining that Chachan was the straight man in the situation.

[Verad]

At what point does one feel like they are "in" rather than "outside" when it comes to RP? What's the criteria for being "in"? And does anyone ever specifically define themselves as being part of a clique, or is that something that other people do for them?

[Warren Castille]

At what point does one feel like they are "in" rather than "outside" when it comes to RP? What's the criteria for being "in"? And does anyone ever specifically define themselves as being part of a clique, or is that something that other people do for them?

 

I can only answer the first one and a half questions, but I think you're "inside" when you've got all the RP you could ask for and "outside" when you want to RP and have no catalyst or source for it.

 

Edit to answer the last part: Generally speaking, if you're known for hanging out with a group of more than two people, you can safely expect observers to consider you being in a clique. To those being observed, it's closer to being amongst friends.

[Gegenji]

I was expecting a Burger King style paper crown and explosion of confetti once I made it "in." I am sure to be disappointed.

[Steel Wolf]

At what point does one feel like they are "in" rather than "outside" when it comes to RP? What's the criteria for being "in"? And does anyone ever specifically define themselves as being part of a clique, or is that something that other people do for them?

 

I can only answer the first one and a half questions, but I think you're "inside" when you've got all the RP you could ask for and "outside" when you want to RP and have no catalyst or source for it.

 

Bingo.

 

It's all a completely personal perceptual sort of thing. And rather nutbar as well, I will be the first to admit.

 

it's not a feeling I find easy to shake, though, as nutbar as the feeling sounds. So I'm not sure I'm explaining myself terribly well, but...yea. It's a matter of perceived inclusion to conversations, stories and adventures with others in the game's space--adventures that involve more emotional and imaginative involvement beyond "Hop in to the Duty Finder", anyways.

[Melkire]

At what point does one feel like they are "in" rather than "outside" when it comes to RP? What's the criteria for being "in"? And does anyone ever specifically define themselves as being part of a clique, or is that something that other people do for them?

 

Personally, it's nowhere near the forefront of my mind whether I'm "in" or "out" or if I'm part of a "clique" until I see/overhear discussions such as these. Then I start examining where I'm at in terms of contacts, potential sources of RP, etc., and how often I'm in touch or out of touch with strangers, and it's only then that I go "oh, I'm probably in a clique... well shit, now I feel bad" despite there being no rational reason for getting down on myself.

 

Until someone cries "clique!", the only distinction in the forefront of my mind is, "how much roleplaying have I been doing lately?" To be brutally honest, yes, cliques and cliquish behavior can be a problem, but the whole concept of "cliques" can also be an awful excuse for one's own inability to break out of their comfort zone and into a larger community.

 

Case in point, I'm not as comfortable hanging around the Quicksand as I once was, mainly because I don't recognize most of the people I see in there these days. That's an example of my personal "comfort zone" keeping me from interacting with folks I don't know. I'm not going to blame that on the "clique" I'm in, or the "cliques" of the folks that hang in the Quicksand. I'm going to blame that on myself and my refusal to actually go chat with other folks.

[Steel Wolf]

 

Personally, it's nowhere near the forefront of my mind whether I'm "in" or "out" or if I'm part of a "clique" until I see/overhear discussions such as these. Then I start examining where I'm at in terms of contacts, potential sources of RP, etc., and how often I'm in touch or out of touch with strangers, and it's only then that I go "oh, I'm probably in a clique... well shit, now I feel bad" despite there being no rational reason for getting down on myself.

 

...which reminds me, moar clarification--I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad here. Far from my intent. :c More advice on how to break out of my own shell, because I agree, the thought or concept of cliques being a thing needs to be torn down by me and my own insecurities.

 

Until someone cries "clique!", the only distinction in the forefront of my mind is, "how much roleplaying have I been doing lately?" To be brutally honest, yes, cliques and cliquish behavior can be a problem, but the whole concept of "cliques" can also be an awful excuse for one's own inability to break out of their comfort zone and into a larger community.

 

Precisely.

 

I WANT to get out of my little rut and was asking for advice on how to do just that. I would love for my own perceptual nonsense to be washed off. I wanna work on that.

 

Figure asking folks is one of the first and best steps.

 

Again, not wanting to make people feel bad or guilty or anything like that. Just...this all looks like fun. Wolfy wanna play too. :3