The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales

[Kage]

Oh Ilwe T_T

 

*hugs*

[Warren Castille]

Man. All my world first problems just got blown out by actual villainy and ignorance.

 

If it helps any, Ilwe, those people are douches and can generally be ignored. It might cut deep when folks say ignorant things, but that's not how everyone (or anyone worth interacting with) feels.

[Ilwe'ran]

What's even better? According to the military categorization of language by difficulty, English is the ONLY Category V. Chinese and Japanese and a few others are Category IV, and the Romance languages are down at... Category II since they all follow a simple and understandable conjugation structure that's more or less interchangeable between them.

 

But yeah. Thanks to all the rules that aren't ("i before e except after c", anyone?) and special cases and such, English is rated the hardest language to learn. Learning that makes me all the more impressed with those who seek to learn to speak it. And this is from someone who at some point learned (and subsequently forgotten due to lack of use) bits of French, Spanish, Latin, and Arabic.

 

Military categorization seems to be biaised as scaling the difficulty "when you're english native speaker". Difficulty only depends on what is your native language.

 

For example :

- If you're japanese native, learning chinese might be confusing at first but would be easier for you than learning french or english 'cause it's obviously really different from what is your native language.

- If you're french native, learning latine languages such as italian or spanish is easier as the sentence structure and the words are similar. Germanic forms and (of course) languages using different sort of structures and letters such as arabic or japanese / chinese language are more complicated. English is, for us french, fairly easy as it comes with more simple rules for conjugation and grammar (example : "to go" in english vs "aller" in french, it's the same verb, and it's not a complicated one in french)

- If you're english native. Oh well, can't help than to think that the most complicated for english native is to have a system motivating the young to learn another language. People often told me that language is an option in many schools in USA which surprised me.

 

As a result, I found that most of intolerant a*ses are those who never learned another language (and look like there are a lot of those out there). Those who did and actually used their knowledge and so, faced the same situation as us are usually nice and willing to help.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also,

 

This is a message from a RPer to fellow RPer.

Please. PLEASE !!! When you're facing someone who isn't native (or you suspect isn't) and suddenly one of their sentence comes totally off / not being in phase of the RP / weird and will have some consequences on your reactions (and sometimes HEAVY consequences).

 

[align=center]CHECK OOC WHAT THAT PERSON MEANS, THIS MIGHT BE A TRANSLATION FAIL[/align]

 

We can totally fail in RP too.

We can totally fail to catch the meaning of a sentence and blurp out weird answer.

We can be overly surprised by the reaction of your char because our sentence is normal for us and WTF for you.

We can totally back off rping in english as it's HARD and sometimes people aren't tolerant and expecting perfection.

It is often hard for us to read accents and while we can be naturaly slow answering (as checking meaning / fetching vocabulary / double checking answer) it can become even worse when we understand half of the sentence.

 

So just please. Please, please, please. I know it's easy to forget while immersed. But don't overreact. Ask. Communicate. Ask twice if necessary. Even three times. Just make sure before doing something that will change the relation between your char and another.

 

[align=center]If you feel that something is wrong, you might be right !!![/align]

[Drifter]

@Ilwe: your last few posts should be in a thread of their own and stickied so everyone can see it.

 

Again I apologize on behalf of native english speakers. And I thank you for making the effort to learn our language, not many of us would do the same (unfortunately)

[Ilwe'ran]

Also, I would like to add this which is probably the most terrifyingly annoying thing for me (and still about RP).

 

Trust a non native when he suddenly reacts ooc as surprised by your IC answer and - after checking - is all "yeah, looks like I f*cked up my answer, I wanted to say that ... " . It's already hard to admit that we failed to understand / write a sentence in english, it's harder when people don't trust us and persist in what they think we wanted to say.

We're not asking to retcon. We're correcting some mistakes due to the language.

 

So many time I did put Ilwe in some stupid situation just because I didn't checked twice if what I said was normal / understandable. That lead my char to be in bad relationship with others extremely stupidly and those people weren't always tolerant enough to understand and accept it.

That's something really vicious and insidious that can deeply hurt over time.

 

 

And sorry I'll try to not monopolize that topic, language & culture problem is something I have to face since years and I see a lot of my friend struggling with it as well. Somehow today I just needed to share my feelings around this =x .

[Gegenji]

It's fine, it's fine. Language difficulties is a perfectly valid issue to bring up. Especially in an MMO, where you can be playing with people of all sorts.

 

And really, messing up a sentence or typoing or misunderstanding what someone else said happens often enough between two people who speak the same native language! Heck, I was in an RP yesterday and I misunderstood some vials being something to use AGAINST poison (i.e. antidotes) AS poison.

 

Not to mention I've flubbed sentences often enough, and have seen it happen with others. At worst, I'll just make a joke about the typo or what have you. My usual response is to just let it slide or seek/provide some clarification if there's some confusion.

 

RP is about communication and joint story-telling after all. If you're not willing to make simple concessions as "Oh, you actually meant to have your character say that instead of this?" then... there's certainly going to be problems. Seriously, it's fixing a line or two of dialogue, not a major retcon of a character.

[Kage]

*deep snugz*

Yes, not speaking the same language or not quite meeting the same expectations in language... it's hard. You don't want to say "oops sorry could you try to say/type that again" because you worry you might offend them or are embarrassed but it's worse if you just keep going on not being 100% on the same page.

 

BUT BE RESPECTFUL AND ACCEPT THAT AND WORK TOWARDS GETTING ON THE SAME PAGE. No matter if English is second language or native! Yes native speakers, you have to make some effort too and it's not just "hurm I tried to make sense of it.."

 

It is also, "I tried making sense... I spoke with them to try and see if we understand each other, because I want to be clear."

 

I was so mad when one of the most annoying people in my FC (honestly I don't know why leadership doesn't do something. People say they've blacklisted him but some say have grudge etc) ranted about a Tank in like... Haukke or Toto-Rak.

"This paladin only does Rage of halone! Augh bad player!"

"So, why not try to inform that the tank would be better off doing the combo?"

"They're French. So ugh."

".... Autotranslate:Fast Blade puis Autotranslate:Savage Blade puis Autotranslate:Rage of Halone Autotranslate:Please. Autotranslate:Thank you ? Granted, I did a google translate of "then" but at least I tried."

"Whatever, it's not like they're in Balmung. They're not having issues with hate either so whatever."

"Inb4 Balmung. Also, then why the fuck are you ranting if there's no issues?"

[Nebbs]

@Ilwe'ran, 

 

As the one who mostly gets Ilwe wrong most of the time and maybe reacts and causes lots of grief.  I'd just like to add this is not just a receptive thing but also a sending thing. You don't know you misread, you respond incorrectly and so the vicious cycle starts.

 

I don't think it is an intentional thing just many of us who have one language (English) and maybe have other language issues, and socialisation and communication issues, just don't do well at this aspect.

 

All I (we) can do is try and say it was not intentional.

 

Sorry

[Gegenji]

"Inb4 Balmung. Also, then why the fuck are you ranting if there's no issues?"

 

Some people just like to complain. I know I enjoy it from time to time, but I try not to be too serious about it. :blush:

[Steel Wolf]

Not to take away from I'lwe's excellent posts and their message...but I just need a quick vent moment.

 

Couple of days ago during myself and Z-Kitty's Random Dungeon Adventure Times, we were PUG'd with someone who has to be the most hyper of Ninja. Total lack of respect for the pace I was setting. I was barely edging him out in threat due to the speed of his rotations.

 

On the plus side, it's shown me how NOT to play Ninja in group actions once I get the class. So, y'know...silver lining and all that. :3

[Nebbs]

Not to take away from I'lwe's excellent posts and their message...but I just need a quick vent moment.

 

Couple of days ago during myself and Z-Kitty's Random Dungeon Adventure Times, we were PUG'd with someone who has to be the most hyper of Ninja.  Total lack of respect for the pace I was setting.  I was barely edging him out in threat due to the speed of his rotations.

 

On the plus side, it's shown me how NOT to play Ninja in group actions once I get the class.  So, y'know...silver lining and all that. :3

 

I find playing all the roles Tank/heals/dps lets you appreciate the other sides of what is happening and makes your role in a group better. 

 

• As a tank having to chase mobs as DPS can't play nice
  
• As DPS when the tank only aggros one mob
  
• As DPS when the tank keeps turning the mob around and not positioning it
  
• As healer when tanks don't use CDs or people stand in stuff or think they are a tank
  
• As Tank when you din't feel the healer is on top of your damage
  
• etc..
  

Play to help the team, not to max out some individual dps score or show you can be something other than what you should be.

[Kellach Woods]

But yeah. Thanks to all the rules that aren't ("i before e except after c", anyone?) and special cases and such, English is rated the hardest language to learn. Learning that makes me all the more impressed with those who seek to learn to speak it. And this is from someone who at some point learned (and subsequently forgotten due to lack of use) bits of French, Spanish, Latin, and Arabic.

 

Not for nothin' but IIRC Polish is the hardest. English is among the top 10 hardest but not the hardest. And as someone said, that list is allegedly fairly biased against non-English native speakers (...won't get further into that pls).

 

Also, I feel for that 'cause would ya look at that English isn't my main language either (say word?)

 

Yep. Frenchie here as well. I know it's surprising to most but if you heard me speak you'd know.

 

* * *

 

All right. When someone is new to the fight...

 

EXPLAIN THE FIGHT

EXPLAIN THE FIGHT

EXPLAIN THE FIGHT

 

YOU WOULD THINK THIS OBVIOUS. APPARENTLY NOT. (also if you get nailed by an ability and someone says "stick around I'll explain to you how it works" and you say "okay" please actually DO stick around)

[Xiaoli Vorgan]

It's been long I would like to talk about those picking on others for their language and culture.

 

It's not because you're english native speaker that the whole world is like you.

It's not because you're english native speaker that we all write and speak as you do.

It's not because you're english native speaker that you should take any opportunity to jeer those who aren't.

 

You have to be TOLERANT over those who aren't english native and will spend their whole life learning YOUR language.

You have to UNDERSTAND that when a non native write a sentence, he doesn't check 150 times the vocabulary, the grammar or the structure of the sentence before pressing enter.

You have to ACCEPT that due to the learning process and different culture what comes out for you to be rude can be totaly different for the non native who just talked.

 

 

Yes, I'm looking at you who tells me that I'm aggressive / rude / whatever because my sentence isn't wrote as YOU  would have write it yourself. Guess what ? Teachers aren't teaching people about irony and aggressivity, they only teach basic way to communicate and we don't always get what it implies for you.

 

I'm also looking at you who uses the fact I'm not native as an argument to blurt out that everything I can say is sh*t. If you're not doing your job properly in a dungeon and makes the party wiping, I won't stop myself to tell it to you. The fact my english isn't perfect doesn't mean that I'm wrong nor justify your attitude toward me.

 

 

Just f*ck off. I'm not native, at least I try to communicate, yelling at me / blaming me / mocking me isn't trying to communicate. It's only being an a*se.

 

The day you'll begin to speak another language than your native one as best as we do learn and speak english, we'll talk again about all this. Maybe that day you'll notice that you were an a*se to pick on me or on my friend 'cause our english isn't perfect.

Yes dude, it's freaking easy to mock others, but at least we TRY. Now tell me which one is rude and which one is useless again ?

 

PS : A lot of Caps Lock and all. I think this makes me angry since long D:

 

 

 

I'm sorry you had to deal with some people who are like that. Some people still think the sun spins around them. Unfortunately, many people think this is the borg and that the universal language is English because it's spoken in so many places. They don't understand that there are actually people in many places who don't speak English as a first language but learned it anyway. These of course will be people who only know how to speak English and probably would never bother learning a 2nd, let alone a 3rd language.

 

 

I've seen it many times on the official forums (of any game, not to mention just plain facebook comments), people poking at people for how they relay their message. They point it out in the most douchiest way possible and think they look superior by being a grammar nazi. It's not cool. 

 

I'm Brazilian American, I was born in America to a Brazilian mother, who passed away when I was 3. So I did not learn the language of my mother's side, since I was raised by my father. I am the most quiet of everyone when I am around my mother's side of the family. Awkwardly so, that I may see them maybe once every few years. My brother was raised by her side, since we had different fathers so he gets to tease me about my cluelessness on Portuguese. They never offered these classes for it when I was in school. Spanish and French were all that was offered until I graduated High School. I learned the basics, and right now I am learning Portuguese, Korean and Japanese.

 

As much of a hard time as I am having with these languages, I think I would have had a even harder time learning English if I had not been born here. I would be jacked up.

 

Please do not let ignorant people get to you. They are not worth the patch of land they were probably accidentally birthed on. 

[Ilwe'ran]

Not to take away from I'lwe's excellent posts and their message...but I just need a quick vent moment.

 

It's the vent tend, it's ok. I might just make another topic one day like "How to communicate IC and OOC - a native english speaker vs non native speaker guide"

 

 

PS : Thank you all for your supportive messages ♥

[Aduu Avagnar]

just a general vent... mainly at the crafting system, and trying to find someone to craft an item.... damn 4* carpenters, why are they so elusive!!!

[Kellach Woods]

Saw your message - the items are 3* I think

 

I'm actually gunning for a self-reliant crafting experience myself so I'm hoping I'll be able to game the system enough to craft my artisans myself.

[Aduu Avagnar]

the sandals are 4* the off hands are 3* (Still taking donations of Sealant for the offhand so I can get at least 1 craft 4* )

 

someone got in touch and I am now the proud owner of some HQ Artisans Sandals.

 

however, now I need to get my act together and spiritbond the materia for them  so poor, so, so poor.

[Kellach Woods]

So wait...

 

You're supposed to get up to 4* crafting... to craft your artisans... when you need the artisans to get to 4*

 

Good fucking job SE.

[Aduu Avagnar]

So wait...

 

You're supposed to get up to 4* crafting... to craft your artisans... when you need the artisans to get to 4*

 

Good fucking job SE.

yup!

[Kellach Woods]

This is so fucking stupid, I have to find a way to bust this wide open. I know that when it comes to progression they've been absolute fucking idiots in the past but this is like...

 

Unless you can get the required numbers for artisan crafting with full melds on left side (which is wasting materia at this point) how the fuck was this even done in the first place.

[Aduu Avagnar]

This is so fucking stupid, I have to find a way to bust this wide open. I know that when it comes to progression they've been absolute fucking idiots in the past but this is like...

 

Unless you can get the required numbers for artisan crafting with full melds on left side (which is wasting materia at this point) how the fuck was this even done in the first place.

full melds on left, craft artisan's offhand, meld it, craft artisans gear.

 

also, bear in mind that you only need full melds on boots, shoes and chestpiece, glasses and echtal gloves are already open to each class.

 

then again, I just talk to people, and get them to do it  if they are friendly I tip

[Kellach Woods]

AND ANOTHER THING.

 

Gatherers have a universal chestpiece, but not Crafters.

 

What the deuce?

 

(Also, Ehcatl gloves can't be melded, and neither can glasses - which is why the Ehcatl get replaced at one point )

 

* * *

 

stop abusin' sound effects pls

 

they ain't done anythin' to anybody

[Aduu Avagnar]

The only benefit of artisans gloves over ehcatl is 3 cp when fully melded.

[Kellach Woods]

The only benefit of artisans gloves over ehcatl is 3 cp when fully melded.

 

Yeouch. Didn't think it was that bad.

[OttoVann]

Echatl gloves are terrible. CP is king