The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales

[Steel Wolf]

A pox upon all those people who immediately vote Abandon in WoD after a single wipe by the first boss. Look, people, that floating eye bastard is probably the HARDEST boss in here, and if we can beat him, the rest will probably be cake by comparison. It's new content - stop acting like spoiled little 8-year-olds, pick yourselves up, and give it another go.

 

SO MUCH OF THIS IT HURTS. Seriously, what IS it with people demanding the auto-clears already? We've got new arrivals to this tier of raid ALL THE TIME. It's gonna be a thing that happens, dying. Hike up yer skirts and press on.

 

To add to this vent...can there be some clarity before Cerberus as to what Alliance does what? There's from my experience two trains of thought with regards to duties in that fight and alliance letter:

 

A-dds, B-elly C-hains, or

A-dds, B-oss C-how.

 

Some outright specifics of who the hell is doing what before the Shield Toss/Tomahawk, plz thx.

[Kage]

"NO WE'LL JUST RUN IN AND DO SHIT"

 

Me: /crai

 

Once had to get the chains cause no one said who got it so it was like "AHHH CHAIN"

[Gegenji]

A pox upon all those people who immediately vote Abandon in WoD after a single wipe by the first boss. Look, people, that floating eye bastard is probably the HARDEST boss in here, and if we can beat him, the rest will probably be cake by comparison.  It's new content - stop acting like spoiled little 8-year-olds, pick yourselves up, and give it another go.

 

SO MUCH OF THIS IT HURTS.  Seriously, what IS it with people demanding the auto-clears already?  We've got new arrivals to this tier of raid ALL THE TIME.  It's gonna be a thing that happens, dying.  Hike up yer skirts and press on.

 

I just think people feel like everyone else needs to act on their (perceived) level - or higher if they're feeling lazy and want to be carried.

 

Also, I'm noticing this more and more now that I'm doing more CT tanking on Chachan but... is there something about being MT? I usually tend to be the one getting aggro and holding it due to my STR accessories and my overall high iLevel, but the other Alliance tanks will still try to yank it off me... even as they also decry that "there's no prize for being MT."

 

I was doing Labyrinth... two days ago? with an entire party of the Alliance being myself and my FC mates. And there was this tank that WOULD NOT stop trying to pry the boss off me. This led to positioning problems as he yanked enmity off me while I was trying to get the boss into place (Bone Dragon and last boss)... and the OBNOXIOUS chain beeping noise as the boss de-aggroed and then RE-aggroed onto me.

 

Let the little midget in plate take the boss. I'll hold onto it, it's okay. Go grab the adds that are PUNCHING YOUR HEALER TO DEATH (Magic Jars fight, no joke. I went to try and save the healer since my group wasn't "phased" to do it and basically got there just in time to watch the healer crumple).

 

Is there something I'm missing? Or is this just an ePeen thing for some tanks?

[Sounsyy]

Note: No problem with people who can't do Coil because of RL restrictions. No problem with that at all. RL comes first. But people who have the time/item level, but are unwilling to do Coil because too lazy/not fun/don't want to deal with other people in an MMO.

 

 

I... I don't run Coil despite being i116 just because I'm still burned out on endgame raiding on WoW. I just want to do my roulettes and then dork around playing pretend with the other peoples. That's where my fun is.

 

I've never seen you whinge about being entitled to a craftable version of the Coil gear, or that HA gear should drop out of 4-man dungeons, or my favorite that you should be able to view FCoB cutscenes in your inn room even though you've never set foot in BCoB. That's what irks me.

 

If you don't wanna do Coil, that's totally fine with me. If you want to be rewarded with a shower of free Coil gear and spoiler things and titles but are unwilling to even attempt the content to get them - that's where I have the problem. Hope that clarifies.

[Melodia]

Note: No problem with people who can't do Coil because of RL restrictions. No problem with that at all. RL comes first. But people who have the time/item level, but are unwilling to do Coil because too lazy/not fun/don't want to deal with other people in an MMO.

 

 

I... I don't run Coil despite being i116 just because I'm still burned out on endgame raiding on WoW. I just want to do my roulettes and then dork around playing pretend with the other peoples. That's where my fun is.

 

I've never seen you whinge about being entitled to a craftable version of the Coil gear, or that HA gear should drop out of 4-man dungeons, or my favorite that you should be able to view FCoB cutscenes in your inn room even though you've never set foot in BCoB. That's what irks me.

 

If you don't wanna do Coil, that's totally fine with me. If you want to be rewarded with a shower of free Coil gear and spoiler things and titles but are unwilling to even attempt the content to get them - that's where I have the problem.  Hope that clarifies.

*Wants the gear, loot, titles, etc.*

 

*Does not have static*

 

*cries*

[Warren Castille]

Is there something I'm missing? Or is this just an ePeen thing for some tanks?

 

You were there when I got cursed out for tanking King Behemoth after someone else declared himself the main tank. I wasn't trying to compete, I didn't even shield lob on the way in.

 

If you call main tank, you sure as hell better be able to keep the monster on you.

[SessionZero]

I just think people feel like everyone else needs to act on their (perceived) level - or higher if they're feeling lazy and want to be carried.

 

Also, I'm noticing this more and more now that I'm doing more CT tanking on Chachan but... is there something about being MT? I usually tend to be the one getting aggro and holding it due to my STR accessories and my overall high iLevel, but the other Alliance tanks will still try to yank it off me... even as they also decry that "there's no prize for being MT."

 

I was doing Labyrinth... two days ago? with an entire party of the Alliance being myself and my FC mates. And there was this tank that WOULD NOT stop trying to pry the boss off me. This led to positioning problems as he yanked enmity off me while I was trying to get the boss into place (Bone Dragon and last boss)... and the OBNOXIOUS chain beeping noise as the boss de-aggroed and then RE-aggroed onto me.

 

Let the little midget in plate take the boss. I'll hold onto it, it's okay. Go grab the adds that are PUNCHING YOUR HEALER TO DEATH (Magic Jars fight, no joke. I went to try and save the healer since my group wasn't "phased" to do it and basically got there just in time to watch the healer crumple).

 

Is there something I'm missing? Or is this just an ePeen thing for some tanks?

 

I was in WoD last night and had one of those situations where myself and the other two tanks were just sort of silently waiting for the others to take the lead. Finally I Shield Oath'd and just said fuck it and went ahead and started MTing. Immediately the higher geared tank came and ripped all the aggro off me, and maintained it. This happened for every single trash mob and boss. I even politely waited at Angra Mainyu since I thought maybe she's just waiting for everyone to get situated? But we still waited far past that point and she didn't move. Every. Time.

 

 

Do you want to MT or not? FUCKING DECIDE.

[Gegenji]

I've never seen you whinge about being entitled to a craftable version of the Coil gear, or that HA gear should drop out of 4-man dungeons, or my favorite that you should be able to view FCoB cutscenes in your inn room even though you've never set foot in BCoB. That's what irks me.

 

If you don't wanna do Coil, that's totally fine with me. If you want to be rewarded with a shower of free Coil gear and spoiler things and titles but are unwilling to even attempt the content to get them - that's where I have the problem.  Hope that clarifies.

 

Oh, certainly not. If you aren't willing to do the thing, you won't get the bling. That's just how it goes. You want the stuff from that content, you hafta get your feet wet.

 

It's like the old Legendary Weapons in WoW. I had the ORIGINAL Hunter Legendary bow. Which means I put in the effort and soloed all four of those demons on my lonesome, as the game intended (minus getting cheat buffs before they put a stop to that). I had all the rep mounts I did because I grinded for that rep!

 

The only things I may complain about not getting are things that you could only get once in an event or something and was just not in the know - i.e. the Moogle Suit. However, Warren and Howl were both super-amazing-awesome and got me a code for it... so now I do and I will Moogle it up basically anywhere they want me now because of it.

 

... And is the cutscene thing REALLY an issue? If I want to know what happens in there, I'm pretty sure I could Google search up a YouTube video or something. In fact, I'm pretty sure I did for a couple bits when people were talking about it and got me curious.

 

Is there something I'm missing? Or is this just an ePeen thing for some tanks?

 

You were there when I got cursed out for tanking King Behemoth after someone else declared himself the main tank. I wasn't trying to compete, I didn't even shield lob on the way in.

 

If you call main tank, you sure as hell better be able to keep the monster on you.

 

Yeah, I remember. That's why I don't try to call MT unless I know I can keep the sucker on me. And, as my gear keeps improving, I'm... starting to think I can. Even with just a Burtgang. :blush:

[Melkire]

... And is the cutscene thing REALLY an issue? If I want to know what happens in there, I'm pretty sure I could Google search up a YouTube video or something. In fact, I'm pretty sure I did for a couple bits when people were talking about it and got me curious.

 

It becomes an issue when Square goes to the lengths they do to prevent certain cutscenes from being hosted on YouTube or the like (end of T12 comes to mind).

[Berrod Armstrong]

... And is the cutscene thing REALLY an issue? If I want to know what happens in there, I'm pretty sure I could Google search up a YouTube video or something. In fact, I'm pretty sure I did for a couple bits when people were talking about it and got me curious.

 

It becomes an issue when Square goes to the lengths they do to prevent certain cutscenes from being hosted on YouTube or the like (end of T12 comes to mind).

I still have a working link to that cutscene somewhere, I usually give it to people who want to see it.

[FreelanceWizard]

To add to this vent...can there be some clarity before Cerberus as to what Alliance does what? There's from my experience two trains of thought with regards to duties in that fight and alliance letter:

 

A-dds, B-elly C-hains, or

A-dds, B-oss C-how.

 

Some outright specifics of who the hell is doing what before the Shield Toss/Tomahawk, plz thx.

 

The New Hotness is "all DPS in the belly," which conceptually works, I suppose (since they can burn quick and get back out) -- but in my experience, it often goes wrong. Nothing is more fun then getting spat back out only to find that the entire alliance is dead because the adds overwhelmed them.

 

Last night in my second WoD run, A and C got into an argument about who was going to get eaten. Someone said "A=adds, B=belly, C=chains" in the midst of this, and in B, my response was, "B is... not going to B involved in this argument."

 

Shockingly, despite half of A and half of C being eaten, we took him out on the first go.

 

EDIT: Another funny story about that run: I was, as usual, Bringing the Boom as BLM. About 30 seconds into Cloud of Darkness, the main tank drops, and the Cloud instantly turns to me and says, "Attack 2800 + 1300/tick bleed!" Despite the valiant efforts of our healers, I did not survive this.

 

Fun fact: This is now the second time this has happened to me in WoD.

 

Fun fact 2: It is not uncommon for me to get a crit proc or two on Syrcus bosses (or crit a Flare on trash) and rip threat right off the PuG tank. It's become such a joke that, when I group with healers I know, they just start precasting heals on me the second they see Thunder 3 or Flare.

[Gegenji]

To add to this vent...can there be some clarity before Cerberus as to what Alliance does what?  There's from my experience two trains of thought with regards to duties in that fight and alliance letter:

 

A-dds, B-elly C-hains, or

A-dds, B-oss C-how.

 

Some outright specifics of who the hell is doing what before the Shield Toss/Tomahawk, plz thx.

 

The New Hotness is "all DPS in the belly," which conceptually works, I suppose (since they can burn quick and get back out) -- but in my experience, it often goes wrong. Nothing is more fun then getting spat back out only to find that the entire alliance is dead because the adds overwhelmed them.

 

Last night in my second WoD run, A and C got into an argument about who was going to get eaten. Someone said "A=adds, B=belly, C=chains" in the midst of this, and in B, my response was, "B is... not going to B involved in this argument."

 

Shockingly, despite half of A and half of C being eaten, we took him out on the first go.

 

I had one particular instance where a couple DPS in my group decided to jump into the belly along with the group assigned to do it because "there's no reason not to." Fortunately, we were the chains group and I was on my SCH... so I just helped the rest of us still outside with the DPS and we did fine.

[Steel Wolf]

 

The New Hotness is "all DPS in the belly," which conceptually works, I suppose (since they can burn quick and get back out) -- but in my experience, it often goes wrong. Nothing is more fun then getting spat back out only to find that the entire alliance is dead because the adds overwhelmed them.

 

...all DPS in the belly? That's...that's definitely a new one. I'm glad none of the WoD teams I'd been in had heard of that bright spark, because it sounds like a disaster in the making.

 

Here's hoping that strategy doesn't proliferate.

[Kage]

All DPS in the belly is stupid. It doesn't contribute as much in DPS as people believe. Also, there's 15 DPS and only 8 can go in.

 

 

I've never gotten to go into the belly yet though ....

[FreelanceWizard]

 

The New Hotness is "all DPS in the belly," which conceptually works, I suppose (since they can burn quick and get back out) -- but in my experience, it often goes wrong. Nothing is more fun then getting spat back out only to find that the entire alliance is dead because the adds overwhelmed them.

 

...all DPS in the belly? That's...that's definitely a new one. I'm glad none of the WoD teams I'd been in had heard of that bright spark, because it sounds like a disaster in the making.

 

Here's hoping that strategy doesn't proliferate.

 

It's been brought up in... two of the three WoD groups I've been since Tuesday. One shot it down (the argumentative one ) and the other did it -- and wiped. And wiped. And finally got it on the last go, but with almost everyone in the alliance dead. On that last time, I said "screw it" and stayed outside to kill adds.

 

It's an extremely bad idea, IMO, unless the DPS is extremely well geared and the tanks are very on the ball. Otherwise, the healers will bite it and that's all she wrote.

[Melkire]

...not sure why anyone would want all the DPS in the belly anyway*, it only takes four or five to dish out the damage quickly enough to transition into chains.

 

* it's probably because wailing on something's innards is fun in concept and execution**

** also because some folks are macrophiliacs***

*** I'm not one but I'm aware they exist

[Steel Wolf]

All DPS in the belly is stupid. It doesn't contribute as much in DPS as people believe. Also, there's 15 DPS and only 8 can go in.

 

 

I've never gotten to go into the belly yet though ....

 

It's fun. You get to get vomited out, and every once in a while if Cerby dies while you're in the belly you can get stuck there for a few minutes and people tend to panic and you have to worry about That One Tank opening up against the Cloud before you're out.

 

Good times!

[Warren Castille]

Random complaint: I will never, ever heard the Cerb stomach music as a tank. I heard it's a treat, too.

 

Pun possibly intended on the reread.

[FreelanceWizard]

It's actually really funny. It's the boss theme (Tumbling Down), just muffled and distorted as if you were, well, actually in a stomach. I laughed the first time I got eaten.

[Sounsyy]

Also, I'm noticing this more and more now that I'm doing more CT tanking on Chachan but... is there something about being MT? I usually tend to be the one getting aggro and holding it due to my STR accessories and my overall high iLevel, but the other Alliance tanks will still try to yank it off me... even as they also decry that "there's no prize for being MT."

 

I was doing Labyrinth... two days ago? with an entire party of the Alliance being myself and my FC mates. And there was this tank that WOULD NOT stop trying to pry the boss off me.

 

This is a thing that happens to me all the time. I usually MT ST and OT LotA for simplicity, and lemme tell you as an i120 STR WAR, if I want hate, I'm gonna get it, and never once need to use provoke. All this said, there is always one tank who will spam Provoke every 40s if I'm MTing, which ultimately is fruitless cuz I can rip hate back with a Heavy Swing. It's cute the first couple times. It's annoying as all hell if it persists the entire dungeon every 40s versus bosses and the big trash in between.

 

It used to be, I'd just let them have it, but then without fail they'd either be unable to hold it against DPS who over-geared them or they'd turn the boss and cleave the raid. Both of which are unacceptable outcomes in my opinion. If you wanna tank, position it correctly and hold on. Otherwise I'm gonna take it and be done with it.

[Caspar]

I think it depends on encounter. Some battles MT is incredibly easy as you ignore most mechanics and just focus on staying alive. Other fights it has some illusory level of "prestige" because the player feels confident that it is harder and thus an indication of greater skill.

 

I don't really get that though. As a perpetual melee player, all I see is tanks arguing over aggro, turning the boss around and walking it from place to place, ruining my gcds and positionals.

[Gegenji]

I think it depends on encounter. Some battles MT is incredibly easy as you ignore most mechanics and just focus on staying alive. Other fights it has some illusory level of "prestige" because the player feels confident that it is harder and thus an indication of greater skill.

 

I don't really get that though. As a perpetual melee player, all I see is tanks arguing over aggro, turning the boss around and walking it from place to place, ruining my gcds and positionals.

 

Most of that unnecessary movement is wrought from tanks feuding over who is top enmity dog, though. As I mentioned, I've had bosses ripped off me while I'm trying to position them because "NO ME I DO IT" and either they just tank them where they nabbed them until I take it back to put it into place...

 

... or they move them to where I was moving them anyway, and then I get aggro back just through my normal rotations. When I have the boss, I tend to try to keep that sucker still and only move if mechanics call for it (the Eye's two zones, any sort of AoE "DODGE THIS" effect). Not having a boss running around or spinning like a top is to everyone's benefit.

[Steel Wolf]

Being a Rawrior has helped me a great deal in just not giving a hot damn about being MT. 9 times out of 10 I'm OT or just disengage my enmity toggle entirely to CHOP BITCHES AND GET RICHES.

 

I'm totally cool with that.

 

There were a couple of times in the last WoD run where I had to MT Cerby as well as get eaten and then pick up the Cloud after the self-appointed MT got blasted...but I honestly could care less whether I'm mainline or not. As long as I'm helping out. <3

[Caspar]

I think it depends on encounter. Some battles MT is incredibly easy as you ignore most mechanics and just focus on staying alive. Other fights it has some illusory level of "prestige" because the player feels confident that it is harder and thus an indication of greater skill.

 

I don't really get that though. As a perpetual melee player, all I see is tanks arguing over aggro, turning the boss around and walking it from place to place, ruining my gcds and positionals.

 

Most of that unnecessary movement is wrought from tanks feuding over who is top enmity dog, though. As I mentioned, I've had bosses ripped off me while I'm trying to position them because "NO ME I DO IT" and either they just tank them where they nabbed them until I take it back to put it into place...

 

... or they move them to where I was moving them anyway, and then I get aggro back just through my normal rotations. When I have the boss, I tend to try to keep that sucker still and only move if mechanics call for it (the Eye's two zones, any sort of AoE "DODGE THIS" effect). Not having a boss running around or spinning like a top is to everyone's benefit.

Yeah, that's why the aggro fighting is so incredibly disruptive.

 

There used to be another effect, which was tanks not knowing how to tank with positionals or space to dodge close AoE in mind, from back when Bard was overpowered. Nowadays this is less common, but I still get tanks who aren't as aware of not turning the monster, or fighting over aggro because they figure it doesn't matter where its aoes are put or where its back is facing, because bards can go anywhere.

 

I might be bitter though. It was not easy getting into a party for primal clears back then on Hyp, not when you were monk.

[Sounsyy]

I might be bitter though. It was not easy getting into a party for primal clears back then on Hyp, not when you were monk.

 

Still not honestly. /comfort Hyp PFs are like the worst.