Thoughts on the Au Ra?

[Kellach Woods]

Also, might still be a work in progress. As in - this is what they're generally going to look like (please look forward to it) but there'll be mini changes throughout.

 

Like, did we actually see anything in-game Au Ra related?

[Naunet]

I find this to be a much more valid argument than "Fuck SE because they're lazy in general."

 

Not actually what I said.

 

RE: the impact of Au Ra - A character's appearance is just as important, if perhaps not moreso, than game play. It's perfectly legitimate to be disappointed in seeing yet again the "aggressive male/beautiful and mysterious female" trope played out.

 

Also, this is a thread discussing the Au Ra, so... of course we're going to talk about the Au Ra.

[Havoc Snow]

Here is the problem, no matter how much you want to say that the Au Ra are just with horns and scales, they aren't. That is just your own personal bias because you don't like the end result that was released, and that is fine. SE can't please everyone, and not everyone is going to like everything. I personally dislike Roegadyn and would never play one, but I'd also never say that they were lazy design because they're just Hyur with bigger muscles and larger size.

 

If nothing else, it is very obvious that the models for their faces are vastly different from those of the Miqo'te and Hyur (Midlander), and the only difference as far as effort and detail go between the Male and Female are that the Males have scales on their face (which was likely intended to replace or represent facial hair).

 

Sitting here and trying to say that their design is lazy is just plain bullshit, and I have no expectations that you will admit to that so don't bother trying to justify yourself to me. The fact of that is this, the people coming in here to complain about the race are just unhappy that they didn't get what they wanted. If you don't like the race that is entirely your right not to, but don't sit here and try to say that the race is shit or lazy or whatever else just because it doesn't fit what YOU wanted.

 

The race is fine how it is, some will like it, some won't. The same can be said for literally every other race in the game.

[Naunet]

There is no need to get so hostile.

 

I think trying to equate dissatisfaction with the Au Ra as the same as calling Roegadyn "hyur with bigger muscles" is rather disingenuous. First of all, it's not the Au Ra in general that most people are critiquing - it's the differences displayed in the males versus the females. The Roegadyn have a distinctive musculature to them, as well as very different face shapes, and male and female roegadyn clearly share a common aesthetic. They are an example of it done right. They're obviously the same race.

 

The same cannot be said for male and female Au Ra. The females are so delicate compared to the males that they look like nearly completely different races. The disappointment comes from how this is a pattern that is played out to a tired degree in so many video games. Why not maintain the aggressive, near-beastial aesthetic of the males in the women as well? They could still be quite beautiful, but in a way that would be in-keeping with the themes established by the males. (Or, y'know, they could go the other way around and have waif-like males.)

 

Instead they made a female that looks extremely human, but with horns and a tail, with a few barely visible scales. The design paradigm is jarringly different.

[Tiergan]

So ...you're free to say that you like the design, but everyone else isn't allowed to say they personally feel it's lazy and don't like it?

 

I haven't read most of this thread, so I don't know if anyone was actively trying to silence you for liking them or not - but everyone here's allowed to feel how they want. You are allowed to enjoy them and feel the design isn't lazy. Other people are allowed to feel bothered by the way the males look vs the females. I'm allowed to think the females look boring as all hell. And we're all also allowed to debate with each other in a civil manner about those feelings, even if we disagree.

 

You don't feel the design is lazy, you might even really like and that's fine. I can respect that. Hell, I main a cat boy - I can't exactly sit and say that I am playing a race that is the paragon of originality instead of straight up fan-service material. I also really like the look of the male Au Ra. but let's not use that as an excuse to be flat at rude and call people's opinions 'bullshit'.

[Perth]

I like to see it much as how it works in real life. Humans come in all shapes and sizes and seeing a woman wih a waifish body as opposed to a man with rippling muscles really isn't unordinary. Likewise, women naturally develop less body hair than men, so I find it fair that reptilian-eske human females have less scales than males. To be honest, the demorphism really isn't that bad at all, and I might dare to say its a bit overly dramatic to call it such at this point in time. I would consider real demorphism being, say... the difference in World of Warcraft races. The difference within Tauren, Trolls, maybe even Draenei considering how despite being the same race they have radically different spines and skeletal structures. That being said, I'm worried Au Ra might look too repetative with how many fleshy hyur-like races are going to be playable.

[Havoc Snow]

So ...you're free to say that you like the design, but everyone else isn't allowed to say they personally feel it's lazy and don't like it?

 

I haven't read most of this thread, so I don't know if anyone was actively trying to silence you for liking them or not - but everyone here's allowed to feel how they want.  You are allowed to enjoy them and feel the design isn't lazy.  Other people are allowed to feel bothered by the way the males look vs the females.  I'm allowed to think the females look boring as all hell.  And we're all also allowed to debate with each other in a civil manner about those feelings, even if we disagree.

 

You don't feel the design is lazy, you might even really like and that's fine.  I can respect that.  Hell, I main a cat boy - I can't exactly sit and say that I am playing a race that is the paragon of originality instead of straight up fan-service material.  I also really like the look of the male Au Ra. but let's not use that as an excuse to be flat at rude and call people's opinions 'bullshit'.

It's not anyone's opinion I am calling bullshit, as I said you're entitled to not like them, but how would you feel if I said I didn't like your character's history compared to mine and that made your story intrinsically lazy? It's an accusatory term, and one not fitting for what I think you (or others) are trying to convey. The race isn't lazily designed, it just doesn't fit your liking.

 

I also personally feel that this whole argument about sexual dimorphism is the stupidest thing I've read in this community since that time someone came on here to accuse everyone who played a Lalafell of being a pedophile because of Momodi's dialogue.

[Oli!]

Oh god what did I start

[Zyrusticae]

No, it's totally lazily designed. Come on, who are you fooling?

 

Throwing on some scale patches and horns is the barest minimum of effort for a new 'race'. If my backstory consists of a few summary sentences that go over the most obvious and mundane details of my character's life you would be WELL within your rights to critique me for it. As far as I'm concerned, the Au Ra are not far removed from that level of effort.

 

Edit: For the record, I was really hoping for something more like this:

Or this:

[Havoc Snow]

No, it's totally lazily designed. Come on, who are you fooling?

 

Throwing on some scale patches and horns is the barest minimum of effort for a new 'race'. If my backstory consists of a few summary sentences that go over the most obvious and mundane details of my character's life you would be WELL within your rights to critique me for it. As far as I'm concerned, the Au Ra are not far removed from that level of effort.

 

Edit: For the record, I was really hoping for something more like this:

Or this:

10/10 would not play this. 10/10 will play the Au Ra we got.

[Flickering Ember]

My thing is - concept artists are always thinking about silhouette.  It's important because you want people to be able to look at a character at a glance and instantly know what they are.   A lot of times, some concept artists will even start concepting creatures by drawing out a silhouette first and then designing on top of it.

 

If we made silhouettes of all the different races, most of them would be pretty easily distinguishable ...except maybe miqo'te and midlanders if we cropped off the cat ears and tails.  They tried to make up for it by giving them noticeably larger, cat-like eyes, a slightly different facial structure from midders - (or a very different facial structure if you have the older male miqo'te nunh face).  If you put a hyur midder and a miqo'te side by side, you can visibly see the differences in their faces.

 

What we've seen of female Au Ra doesn't really do that. The silhouette just reads "female midlander with horns and tail".  Their faces just have a few scales tacked on, but overall look like midlanders or like they're trying to squeeze the features in somewhere between midlander and miqo'te.

 

At the end of the day, I'm not really going to lose any sleep over it - but it's very hard to argue that the same level of work in making the male Au Ra unique went into the females too.

 

I find this to be a much more valid argument than "Fuck SE because they're lazy in general."

 

I find that I won't be losing any sleep, either. Just another change to FFXIV that for some reason, despite its utter insignificance in comparison to every other change, gets the most attention for the stupidest reasons.  Au Ra will not be changing gameplay in the slightest, people. It's the 3 new classes they just announced, new flying mounts, and new mechanics centered around flying that will.

 

Gameplay isn't the only feature people care about though, especially in a roleplaying community like this one. Character creation and customization is not only important on an OOC level where people take time and effort to make an image that either represents them or an idea, but it is also important on an IC level where the looks, lore, and bearing of a race and character place a direct impact on RP.

 

My character, a large muscular woman who loves hugs and talks like Tarzan, would be perceived completely different if she was a hyur woman. The more unique the races are the more flexible a lot of our RP concepts can be. 

 

I didn't want a carbon copy of a roegadyn, honestly, but I was hoping for something a little more dragon-like and a little less waifish. Because I am disappointed, I won't be fantasia-ing my alt like I planned. It doesn't impact my gameplay but it does impact my RP which does impact my fun. (Because we RP for fun, right?)

[Clover]

I don't know, the way people talk about this new race doesn't sound like mere personal opinions. Not liking it is a thing, but saying that SE is lazy or did a bad job with the design, or implying that people who roll this race don't deserve RP attention is a bit... harsh?

 

I mean, I personally find it very beautiful, not lazy at all. SE hasn't been lazy about anything they do anyway. Also, I will definitely be RPing a character, and I don't see why anyone doing the same should have to feel guilty about it. Can't we all agree that a design is obviously not going to appeal to everyone, which doesn't mean that the design itself is bad? By saying that SE did a bad job with it, you're discarding the opinion of all the people who do like it (X_X)

[Havoc Snow]

I don't know, the way people talk about this new race doesn't sound like mere personal opinions. Not liking it is a thing, but saying that SE is lazy or did a bad job with the design, or implying that people who roll this race don't deserve RP attention is a bit... harsh?

 

I mean, I personally find it very beautiful, not lazy at all. SE hasn't been lazy about anything they do anyway. Also, I will definitely be RPing a character, and I don't see why anyone doing the same should have to feel guilty about it. Can't we all agree that a design is obviously not going to appeal to everyone, which doesn't mean that the design itself bad? By saying that SE did a bad job with the design, you're discarding the opinion of all the people who do like it (X_X)

I seriously could not agree with this statement more.

[Dat Oni]

I don't know, the way people talk about this new race doesn't sound like mere personal opinions. Not liking it is a thing, but saying that SE is lazy or did a bad job with the design, or implying that people who roll this race don't deserve RP attention is a bit... harsh?

 

I mean, I personally find it very beautiful, not lazy at all. SE hasn't been lazy about anything they do anyway. Also, I will definitely be RPing a character, and I don't see why anyone doing the same should have to feel guilty about it. Can't we all agree that a design is obviously not going to appeal to everyone, which doesn't mean that the design itself bad? By saying that SE did a bad job with the design, you're discarding the opinion of all the people who do like it (X_X)

I seriously could not agree with this statement more.

Seconded.

[Kellach Woods]

Hell if you ask me Miqo's should never have been made.

 

Still RP with 'em tho.

[Oscare]

Honestly, if you're not happy with the models, then don't be happy with the models. I understand why you don't, but I agree with Clover -- don't say it's 'lazy' designing. 

 

I understand why you think it's lazy since it does look like a hyur midlander with different textures, but it's unfair to call it 'lazy'. If you ask me, a very lazy move would have been not implementing them in the first place. They're going through the effort of making it playable for us.

[Salinas]

The moment I laid my eyes on the female model I whispered, "Beautiful delicate dragon princess."

 

... I know there's a few people who are disappointed with how the females ended up... b... ut... they are... just so... friggin... pretty to me.

[Zyrusticae]

Please. You can like something and still admit that a bare minimum of effort went into its creation.

 

I mean, for cryin' out loud, I play Miqo'te! I KNOW all they did was make them cute and throw on some cat ears+tail and I still enjoy playing as one. It's still incredibly lazy, simplistic character design (especially considering they're really just modified Mithra).

[Aya]

I'm with Tiergan.  If someone thinks its lazy he should feel free to say so.  If you disagree, don't say, "you shouldn't say its lazy."  Why shouldn't I?  If you disagree, explain why and try to change the person's mind.  I don't personally think its lazy (I think they're just making what people want, as this thread suggests), but I can see why someone would think that.

[Kellach Woods]

I understand why you think it's lazy since it does look like a hyur midlander with different textures, but it's unfair to call it 'lazy'. If you ask me, a very lazy move would have been not implementing them in the first place. They're going through the effort of making it playable for us.

 

Not necessarily.

 

The fact that it looks just like a midlander leads me to believe it's NOT COMPLETE YET. Did we see an in-game model? Or did we only see the concept art. Concept isn't implementation. Saying it's lazy or not is basing ourselves on design decisions so far removed from the consumer that we can't say for sure. Hell, I've seen what lazy design does - it can ruin games. (soooooo many anecdotes on that, most of them I'm unable to tell due to losing my job maybe.)

 

I still don't care for the female design and think it should be more in line (albeit with Yugiri as tiniest version) with the male design though.

[Ette]

Not overly disappointed with the design to be honest considering it’s from the creators of Too Many Belts and What Is That Hair Doing and An Abundance Of Catpeople and The Great Butt Exodus 2k13. Final Fantasy has a pretty distinct thing when it comes to playable races. I knew what I was paying for. Maybe in the future they might supply that demand but if it's low in demand it won't be high in supply.

 

Currently I’m actually pretty enamored with the idea of the Au Ra. I like them in theory. They’re something new, their lore could be cool, and I really really want to see what’s going on there. What's their culture like? How are they going to incorporate a new race into the world? What's their culture like? Were we looking at a min height female next to a max height male? What the hell is their culture like c'mon I really wanna know.

[Tiergan]

I don't really understand how some people feeling the design could have been better and feels lazy invalidates the opinion of people who love the design and like it as is. It's not discarding opinions, it's merely disagreeing with them. We can disagree and still be cool with one another. I respect that people love the race and I can see why (the ladies are very pretty!) - and I have no problem with people who actively enjoy the Au Ra female look and can't wait to play as one.

 

While I don't love the design, I don't hate it either. I do think they're extremely pretty and look forward to seeing people run around and RP as them - particularly the darker-haired variant I've seen floating around Tumblr.

 

I don't see why anyone would actively refrain from RP with someone playing as a female Au Ra unless they're a huge jerk. (In which case, you're probably not missing out on much by not getting to RP with them.)

 

As a person playing a cat man, I'm basically playing the "fan service race". It's no secret that some people view the miqo'te in a less than positive light. But as long as folks don't:

 

1) harass folks playing as miqo'te/au ra

2) decide myself and others not worth RPing with because we're playing miqo'te/au ra

3) decide I must be a poor RPer because I decided to go with a cat man or someone else decided to roll a female au ra

 

- I can respect folks for feeling however they do about them, whether or not they agree with me.

[Oscare]

Not necessarily.

 

The fact that it looks just like a midlander leads me to believe it's NOT COMPLETE YET.

Actually, this might be entirely true.

 

I will admit defeat since everyone is entitled to an opinion whether it's lazy or not.

 

@Lafi: I'm led to believe that those models are the 'default' models. Default meaning that you don't change a single option at all, not changing the sliders or colors. Which is why I'm not really too sold for the males -- I'd need to see more options.

[Clover]

But I don't consider it lazy ;

I consider it a beautiful and inspiring design. I don't need uber complicated designs that would likely have no visual appeal to me, just for the sake of saying "oh, this is very original, I've never seen such deformity before!". SE was aiming to create visually appealing characters, and in my opinion they succeeded. That they look humanoid and there are other humanoid characters in-game doesn't mean that it's a lazy or uninteresting design.

 

My problem is that the way people word this whole mess goes beyond simply saying that they personally don't like the race. Saying that a design is bad or lazy is quite a broad statement.

[Havoc Snow]

 

I understand why you think it's lazy since it does look like a hyur midlander with different textures, but it's unfair to call it 'lazy'. If you ask me, a very lazy move would have been not implementing them in the first place. They're going through the effort of making it playable for us.

Did we see an in-game model? Or did we only see the concept art.