Racial relationships

[Leomoon]

So I was just thinking about this but how do you all think cross races dating is seen? Like a Roegadyn and a Miqo'te? or a Hyur and Elezen? or even a Lalafel and a Mqio'te?

 

It's just something I have been thinking, How are this races seen as lovers, is it normal? Is it strange?

[Aduu Avagnar]

We see a hyur and miqo give out tge wanderers palace quests, and there is a human trying to woo Momodi in the delivery quests. So thdy are thrre, however theh seem rare?

[Maril]

Well, I know that between the seeker/keeper clan it's widely frowned upon, to the point that off-spring with mixed blood are shunned away. 

I think it really comes down to how tolerant your character is and what they've been exposed to, what their culture is.. I'd imagine Ishgardians would frown upon any relation with a "heretic" and probably most people would be uncomfortable with a roegadyn/lala couple. 

But at the same time you may have like a hyur that had seen plenty of odd couples and might not mind all that much.

Out of my characters, none of them really have major negative thoughts about mixed couples, but he is secretly ashamed of being related to a keeper/seeker mix offspring that is his half-sister. He'd never say it out loud though, ever.

[Warren Castille]

As Sastra mentioned, a lot of it has to do with cultural upbringing. If we stick to the canon lore for adventurers (that is, that we're not from around here anyway) it doesn't make a lot of sense to carry Eorzean biases with them. Anyone playing a native, though, is going to have grown up amidst the sometimes-fanatic racism and politicking that are prevalent in the society.

 

Of course, there's always going to be free thinkers who buck off that sort of mentality and just mesh with people they want to, but there is strong reinforcement to stick to your own kind: Ala Mhigan Highlanders tend to stick together as the collective outsiders on the continent, all stripes of Elezen have their own racial biases that make them all think they're superior and everyone else is below them, miqo'te of a tribal bent all believe that mating outside of the tribe/clan weakens them, etcetera.

 

I'm generalizing, of course, but there ARE racial tensions in Eorzea. Adventurers tend to not care as much, is all.

[Kellach Woods]

I'd think among the City-States it wouldn't be all that uncommon that such romances would be attempted. However, attempts don't mean successes and I'd wager it'd be more common among adventurers than anyone else.

 

The two races I could see have a problem in general with interracial relationships are Elezen and Miqo'te. Funnily enough, they're the two races who's two "clans" had direct opposition in their history (WW/DW feud over the pact with the Elementals, Keeper/Seeker thing that might have happened but I don't know Miqo history).

 

And even then, you have societal norms to consider as well - I'd say there's more of a chance between an Ishgardian Elezen and Hyur to shack up together (all vs. the dragons) than the same combination in, say, Gridania.

 

Lalas would likely be the race that have the least problems.

[Kage]

It was said in the lore panel that the biggest obstacle was the cultural racial divide. Hyur and Elezen were specufically mentioned by Fern that the two races were recently at war with each other. I think I remember correctly when they stated that it was a hyurxelezen relationship that would be in the future in Heavensward that PCs would see reactions to.

 

It's implied or outright stated by the Hyur and Miqo'te fay couple that hand out the Wanderer's Palace HM quests that the reason they were essentially stigmatized is not because they are fay but because they are interracial

[Kellach Woods]

It's implied or outright stated by the Hyur and Miqo'te fay couple that hand out the Wanderer's Palace HM quests that the reason they were essentially stigmatized is not because they are fay but because they are interracial

 

Yeah, Miqo'te would probably be the one race I'd believe the interracial thing would not work well with partially since their societal structure leaves no real place for outsiders. I don't think, say, a Hyur could take a Nunh title for example.

[Dravus]

Based on what we see in-game it seems like they're a lot rarer than what player character couples may imply. There's also a lot of historical conflict between the city states and the playable races. If not for the Garlean Empire and Primals requiring a united Eorzea I have no doubt that that would only be a matter of time before infighting occurred.

 

One major obstacle is that even with it being established that interracial couples are frowned upon a lot of role-players drag real world morality into the mix and so any character who paints it as a negative is usually perceived as a villain or worse yet, it devolves into OOC drama and mudslinging.

[Kage]

Also, the alchemists questline is specifically a er... well it's about a romance between a Hyur and a Miqo'te. It didn't seem like there were issues other than the fact that er...

 

the miqo'te female was a dead mage sultansworn:

 

[Bopdoot]

Based on what we see in-game it seems like they're a lot rarer than what player character couples may imply. There's also a lot of historical conflict between the city states and the playable races. If not for the Garlean Empire and Primals requiring a united Eorzea I have no doubt that that would only be a matter of time before infighting occurred.

 

One major obstacle is that even with it being established that interracial couples are frowned upon a lot of role-players drag real world morality into the mix and so any character who paints it as a negative is usually perceived as a villain or worse yet, it devolves into OOC drama and mudslinging.

You would hope people could be more mature but I'm afraid I've witnessed this type of "ic to ooc dramallama" often enough in rp communities.  

[E'irawen]

I can't say I've seen anyone OOCly protesting to it.

 

Lore wise though, it just kind of depends. ICly with characters, it depends, too. All about upbringing and background.

 

My characters personally do not give a flying turd. One is a midlander-miqo mix and, sometimes she gets a bit insecure about it yes, but I haven't had anyone in RP blast her for it, IC or OOC.

[Kage]

There's also that one part allll the way back in 2.0 main story quest when one of the Imperial Hyuran guards was crushing on Tataru majorly.

 

According to one person back in 1.0 "a quest in 1.0 for a love potion/soup that a female Miqo'te had me gather ingredients for because she wanted to get into the pants of some lalafell."

 

I forget who it was Thancred was with but in one of the Ul'dah quests in beginning of ARR, Thancred is flirting with two girls, one of them an Elezen.

 

Hweeeee

(Hyur x Miqote)

 

(Hyur x Miqote)

 

(Roe x Hyur)

[Berrod Armstrong]

Inter-racial relationships thrill me OOC, because it opens up a lot of avenues for roleplay.

 

I'll use Warren's marriage to Sei as an example. Berrod was at the ceremony, and while he was very happy for them both, he still muttered and wondered why Warren couldn't find himself a nice highlander girl to make some babies and keep the blood thick. He's an Ala Mhigan-blooded Highlander to the core, and while he may not have any active hostilities against the other races, courting them is questionable. He makes an exception for Roegadyn, but only because they most closely match his model of what an individual should be -- traditionally. 

 

Long story short, he doesn't think it's strange, he just sorts of laments that people do it and water down 'good' bloodlines.

[Kamome]

Kage mentioned this above, but here is the full text from the panel at fan fest on Koji-Fox's lore explanation for the lack of accepted interracial couples:

 

From FFXIV's Head of Localization (English):

 

A: Some of the lore makes it sounds like the conflict between the Hyur and Elezen got pretty heated while others make it sound like a long standing tension. What was the extent of those hostilities?

 

MCKF: I touched on this a little bit today in the live stream and there was a question about relationships between the races and crossbreeding. A lot of it doesn’t happen because while we have all these races living together in Eorzea, there’s this tension between them. That’s there because they have these histories of fighting for a long time and then not really making up, but agreeing to disagree and living together because it’s better than living by ourselves and being more susceptible to Garlean attacks or whatever. We work together because we have a common enemy type of thing.

 

Most of the races don’t really like each other and it”s gone on through multiple Eras. There are times when Eorzea has been more populated by one race over another and there will be conflict there. With the Hyur and Elezen, that’s very recent. In the sixth astral era, Elezen migrated in and in that era they were like “we’re the first ones here!” even though they weren’t, but they were the first at the beginning of the sixth astral era and they settled and of course the pesky Hyur who are everywhere come in and the Elezen are like “oh my god we left you that whole continent up there why are you here!” and the Lalafell come in and you have these cycles of clashing and moving part and that gets ingrained in their society and their racial cultures. There’s always these power struggles, you’ll have times when the Lalafell rise for whatever reason and they’ll side with one group and then turn on another group and that’s one of the reasons there’s not a lot of interracial relationships because even though they’re living in the same towns it’s like well yeah… but you’re an Elezen.

 

F: I can just imagine some young Elezen bringing home a Hyur woman and the Grandma going “Why couldn’t you have found a nice Elezen girl!”

 

MCKF: There’s a lot of that going on. Like i mentioned in the stream, in the future we’ll have some characters that are half one race and half another and we’ll see how they’re treated in society and quests with that.

 

 http://gamerescape.com/2014/10/22/fan-fest-2014-interview-with-michael-christopher-koji-fox/

[SessionZero]

To be honest, I like that facet of the established lore. I like the fact that everyone in Eorzea is not all kumbaya and sunshine and rainbows. It's a tumultuous place, with real tension between the races (with varying intensity) and it provides a unique angle from which to approach your roleplay. How would my character's preconceived notions and prejudices affect this decision? 

 

For my part, I do play Reilan as a traditionally-reared Ishgardian Elezen, with all the prejudices that entails. He won't be a racist dick to your face, but he has subtly different reactions to things based on which race perpetrates the action he is reacting to. It makes me really think about how my roleplay is going to come out, and it's a great way to tep outside your comfort zone.

[Dogberry]

In regards to the heated tension between Elezen and Hyur, I think I've got a few ideas about how they can work that out. You can read all about it in my fanfiction entitled "Sharp Ears and Soft Kisses".

[Kamome]

With the above statements in mind, I always make the assumption that stigmas around interracial dating and marriage would vary between Ul'dah, Limsa Lominsa and Gridania. I.e., you'd see maybe more stigma between Elezen and Keepers of the Moon or Hyur and Keepers of the Moon in Gridania, between perhaps Dunesfolk and Plainsfolk in Ul'dah, or Hyur and Dunesfolk--so on and so forth. In Limsa Lominsa, the Sea Wolves make up both the majority of the 'bad guy' Pirates but also seem almost as populous and integrated into the power system as hyur--especially in the surrounding farms (though many there are former pirates). I still think there would be a lot of tension if a Sea Wolf and Hyur were together. 

 

That said, class and majority status also play a role. You'd probably have less interracial dating and marriage among the higher end of the spectrum: Dunesfolk/Midlander in Ul'dah, Midlander/Sea Wolves in Limsa, and Wildwood/Midlander in Gridania. I think we see a lot of flirting with and sexualization of miqo'te across Ul'dah and Limsa Lominsa because they are, from all appearances, something of a lower-class race. It really seems apparent with the 'prostitute' miqo'te NPCs in Limsa and the dancers in Ul'dah. It makes sense, too, because of the relatively recent/ongoing integration of miqo'te into urban culture. 

 

All this said-and-done, we are, canonically, adventurers from outside of Eorzea. Does the player character even have a stake ICly in this old wounds and conflicts? What are the histories of interracial conflict in Othard and elsewhere? Sharlayan? Y'shtola seems very well-integrated and respected as a miqo'te from Sharlayan. From Koji-Fox's other comments, interracial marriage and breeding seems almost like it would be common within Garlean territory because they recruit and indoctrinate all races and essentially treat them as equals because the ultimate goal is to earn your Garlean citizenship.

 

/endramble

[Kinono]

I'm gonna be self-serving and just talk about examples of it in my own RP, because that's the hand I got and I wanna contribute!

 

Kinono has dated two miqo'tes before, but they were both of the... "no risk of baby-making" variety. Based on what I've seen in quests, at least, dating and relationships seem not to matter so much, and the current belief is that it's the offspring that the populace would have a problem with.

 

Now, Kino is married within her own race/clan, but during a random off-hand conversation where they were talking about their experiences with other races, and the fact that lalafell tend to not have a problem dating non-lalafell, while the opposite tends to not be as true (based on interactions with PC characters, nothing lore-abiding). Her husband, Babazan commented that it's "easier to ignore stigma when you're the relative outlier," which... seems to be a very universal truth, even outside our given setting.

[Kamome]

Personally, I primarily play three Midlander Hyur women with very differing views on interracial relations:

 

Kamome, a Doman immigrant from a very small village who has had next to zero contact with other races (excluding Garleans and, by extension, Highlanders) before arriving as a refugee to Limsa Lominsa. She rarely saw 'unmasked' Garleans, only one Garlean soldier who was racially a Highlander, so she has an ingrained fear of Highlanders, but understands their status as a fellow conquered people at the same time, making her view of them very conflicted, psychologically. She doesn't have /any/ context for Eorzean racial relationships and treats all non-Midlanders the same, basically--curiosity tempered with a cautious distance.

 

Rosalind, a native Ul'dahn from a higher-class family. Her parents were academics who worked at the Milvaneth Sacrarium before it was destroyed. Therefore, she has been utterly /steeped/ in Dunesfolk culture since she was a kid. She sees herself, despite Midlanders having a pretty high class position in Ul'dah, as a minority within academic/religious life. Dunesfolk seem to utterly dominate the Sacrarium and the Ossuary. So she views Dunesfolk with utmost respect--having absorbed their sense of racial superiority through proximity. Somewhere deep down, she probably feels she will never be as intelligent as most Dunesfolk. Also, as a very non-physical, more intellectual/knowledge-driven character, she is romantically attracted to lalafell for their intellects. She's an example of a character who reacts to interracial conflict and competition by idealizing and emulating the higher status race rather than hating it. I guess somewhat of an Uncle Tom, if she was a more ambitious character.

 

Yvane, another native Ul'dahn who's family comes from a military background. She's around a lot of Highlanders and Midlanders--they seem to make up a big portion of the lower ranks of the Brass Blades and Immortal Flames, with Dunesfolk apparently higher-up? So she's most comfortable around other Midlanders and assimilated Highlanders. Her character is strange because her family and social status have completely fallen through the floor, and she is basically living among the lowest of the low-class Ul'dahns. So, she's grown comfortable with Sagolii miqo's, refugee Highlanders, you name it. She is at the bottom so she can't afford to be racist. She's also an avid womanizer, and a very open-minded character to begin with, so she'll flirt with any woman she encounters, really. Regardless of race.

[Bopdoot]

Inter-racial relationships thrill me OOC, because it opens up a lot of avenues for roleplay.

 

I'll use Warren's marriage to Sei as an example. Berrod was at the ceremony, and while he was very happy for them both, he still muttered and wondered why Warren couldn't find himself a nice highlander girl to make some babies and keep the blood thick. He's an Ala Mhigan-blooded Highlander to the core, and while he may not have any active hostilities against the other races, courting them is questionable. He makes an exception for Roegadyn, but only because they most closely match his model of what an individual should be -- traditionally. 

 

Long story short, he doesn't think it's strange, he just sorts of laments that people do it and water down 'good' bloodlines.

*flexxx* Yesss Highlanders are the pinnacle of aesthetics. :thumbsup:

 

Hee hee, in all seriousness this is the same attitude Amelia and her brother have about other people.  I think IC "racism" can be a great avenue of conflict to keep things interesting.

 

As a personal opinion, I think interracial couples obviously happen, but I think you would still many folkyfolk that have a 1950s(American) mentality of "(S)he'd be better off with their own kind..."

 

Yknow??

[Whittledown]

It's all situational. Upbringing. Life experience, all of it.

 

Take someone like Obsidian Hornet. Her first experience with love was with a Highlander male, this colored her view of them and led to her having relationships more easily with them despite her being a Roegadyn. But she also understands that issues like breeding are important, that's why she broke off her engagement with Gharen Wolfsong. She wanted him to have the chance to meet a nice Highlander girl and make some babies.

[Brynhilde]

Inter-racial relationships thrill me OOC, because it opens up a lot of avenues for roleplay.

 

I'll use Warren's marriage to Sei as an example. Berrod was at the ceremony, and while he was very happy for them both, he still muttered and wondered why Warren couldn't find himself a nice highlander girl to make some babies and keep the blood thick. He's an Ala Mhigan-blooded Highlander to the core, and while he may not have any active hostilities against the other races, courting them is questionable. He makes an exception for Roegadyn, but only because they most closely match his model of what an individual should be -- traditionally. 

 

Long story short, he doesn't think it's strange, he just sorts of laments that people do it and water down 'good' bloodlines.

 

Brynhilde is much the same. She comes from a very old and traditionalist Ala Mhigan Highlander family, and as such still possesses bit of what you could fairly describe as bigotry against other races. It seems sensible to me to believe that a culture (Ala Mhigo) both consisting of a majority race (The Highlanders, presumably) and steeped in a love of war and conquest would naturally foster a sense of racial supremacy in many of its citizens.

 

So Bryn has disdain for Highlanders who 'mix' with Midlanders, whom she derides as 'Half Hyur'. She considers Miqo'te primitive and licentious, and judges any non-Miqo'te who pair with them. She feels that Elezen are unduly arrogant and, owing to their willowy frames, unattractive. Lalafell are avaricious and weak, and are children to her eyes.

 

She has respect for (and no small amount of attraction to) Roegadyn, due to their physical strength. She does still fall prey to the stereotype of them being brutish and simple, though... Which, of course, is the typical view of the Ala Mhigans!

[SessionZero]

 

She does still fall prey to the stereotype of them being brutish and simple, though... Which, of course, is the typical view of the Ala Mhigans!

 

Can confirm, Reilan thinks Highlanders are good meat shields and not much else

[Warren Castille]

Anyone who's met Sei knows she isn't your typical miqo'te, and I'd like to think the folks who've met Warren would think he's got good instincts for who to partner with.

 

At any rate, the folks who would say otherwise would do well to not utter it in front of either of them!

 

It's like any culture, really: The deeper you are ingrained to it, the higher the pressure to cleave to your own kind.

[Jana]

Most of Jana's racism is more casual than outright hatred, for example, on the topic of Sei and Warren, Jana kept her mouth shut but wonders just why they'd bother mixing anyway. There are plenty of nice Highlander girls and civilized Miqo'te men. And while she herself can find other races attractive, she has enough hang-ups over dating in general that she (usually) won't act on any impulses felt toward Keepers, much less anyone else.

 

OOCly, I think it's lots of fun and provides even more avenues of RP for the characters involved and even third-parties!