[Split] Gender Behind the Writing

[Faye]

Don't get me wrong, I understand that most of the time women are better at writing female characters and men are better at writing male characters. There are toooons of exceptions to that rule, though, or the difference is often to slight it doesn't really matter. It's kinda the same as saying "preferably not a bad RPer." If quality of RP is what he's concerned about, why not just say that instead? Probably because it's kinda off-putting to read even if you fully understand where someone is coming from.

 

In my personal experience, I've had a ton of problems with lesbian catgirls played by RL men in their 30's. That seems like a weirdly small and niche group, I know, but it's surprising how many characters fall into that category, and every one I've met has been interested in three things: stirring up buttloads of drama OOC like they're living their secret fantasy of being a high school girl, seeking out tons of ERP, and spending what time isn't dedicated on the first two things godmodding, being a Mary Sue, and trying to make their character be the ultimate badass. I've ran into this type in XIV so often it isn't even funny. But if I put "Looking for RP friends, preferably not a lesbian catgirl played by a 30-year-old man," once people realized it was actually serious and not a joke, they'd probably find it preemptively judgmental and offensively discriminatory... because it is.

 

Bad RPers are bad RPers. There are much worse offenses than someone who can't write well for the gender of the character they're playing. I'd much sooner tack up "No godmodders" or "No Mary Sues" or "No OOC crazies who will cause buttloads of drama." So if it's for the sake of preserving RP quality, I don't understand why someone's RL gender is the most serious potential problem.

 

And I'm sorry if calling it "weird" seems antagonistic, but that's just how it is. I'm not sure what words would be better. Sketchy? Strange? Shady? Suspicious? Sexist? All have pretty negative connotations that may upset someone, which makes sense, given that it's a negative feeling. It's difficult to find positive words for negative things.

[Kinono]

Kino and her husband are fictional characters.

 

Kino and her husband are opposite genders.

 

Kino and her husband are played by two separate people.

 

These people are the same gender.

 

These people do not posses sexualities where they would be attracted to each other in real life at all.

 

These people do not care about the previous two lines because of the first line.

 

The end.

[Gegenji]

 

I dunno. This whole topic strikes me as kinda being too easy to swerve into the skeevy.

 

It boggles me that people feel comfortable making all sorts of assumptions about him, and are creeped out by him, and yet feel utterly no desire to understand why he stated what he stated.

 

*snip*

 

This thread bothers me, because it is skating ever so close to the edge of double standards.

 

That's kinda more what I mean. While some of the way it was presented leans one way, that doesn't mean what he intended. However, it's easy enough for the thread to derail into the topic of what he said rather than what he meant. Which leads to "skeevy" (i.e. sketchy, dangerous, flame-attracting) discussion over the importance of who is sitting behind the other screen.

[Zhavi]

 

That's kinda more what I mean. While some of the way it was presented leans one way, that doesn't mean what he intended. However, it's easy enough for the thread to derail into the topic of what he said rather than what he meant. Which leads to "skeevy" (i.e. sketchy, dangerous, flame-attracting) discussion over the importance of who is sitting behind the other screen.

 

My apologies, sir!

[OttoVann]

I think one thing to consider, I just had this thought cross my mind as I was making a sandwhich.

 

I think perhaps, what a lot of people reacted to was a sort of subliminal "This is asking for trouble" to the OPs request. People who may not be able to easily rp with other men on catgrills might not be ready for romance RP.

[K'nahli]

And I'm sorry if calling it "weird" seems antagonistic, but that's just how it is. I'm not sure what words would be better. Sketchy? Strange? Shady? Suspicious? Sexist? All have pretty negative connotations that may upset someone, which makes sense, given that it's a negative feeling. It's difficult to find positive words for negative things.

 

Ah, it was more to do with the original OP's replies up to that point. I was of the firm impression that he was feeling ganged up on regardless of everyones' intent(not that I can blame him). In such a position, it's far easier to feel offended by terms with negative connotations - particularly so when they're being echoed repeatedly by multiple posters.

 

No need to apologise though, I didn't mean to imply you were anywhere near in the wrong for doing so. You were just expressing your opinion, but it just didn't seem like something that was being received very well no matter how kindly you or anyone else put it.

[Kage]

...the inferred tone in this thread seems to be aggressive towards an opposing viewpoint. Fuck, my post said you aren't wrong, which you seem to be okay with, but then you reiterate the whole debate over the other half of my point being that he's not wrong either. I'm not accusing anyone of anything.

 

The "general opinions" in this thread are borderline hostile. Repeating them, moreso.

First bold: Isn't that the point of discussions? I mean, if everything was the same we wouldn't ever... have a discussion? One point of view is argued through, discussed, etc?

 

I'd only made 2 posts in the original thread this was split from.

First: Just don't talk about real life gender suggestion.

Why? Because you then get to make the judgment on the quality of the RP and not on the genitals behind a screen. If that's really what it is.

 

Second: Bringing up an event thread from a year ago that is an example of the type of negative feedback one might get with this type of mentality, that this type of RP may not be what some people here would encourage, want or participate in. Why? Because it's the same as mentioning casually to people that not everyone will really quite like a Mary Sue/Gary Stu in RP that wants to be the main character in everyone's RP.

[Desu Nee]

My philosophy is always "If you're not comfortable, don't do Romance RP"

I generally don't care, it's RP. I know, late for opinion and I don't add nothing, but it's the ROLE of PLAY. ROLE. NOT YOU. ROLE

[Faye]

And I'm sorry if calling it "weird" seems antagonistic, but that's just how it is. I'm not sure what words would be better. Sketchy? Strange? Shady? Suspicious? Sexist? All have pretty negative connotations that may upset someone, which makes sense, given that it's a negative feeling. It's difficult to find positive words for negative things.

 

Ah, it was more to do with the original OP's replies up to that point. I was of the firm impression that he was feeling ganged up on regardless of everyones' intent(not that I can blame him). In such a position, it's far easier to feel offended by terms with negative connotations - particularly so when they're being echoed repeatedly by multiple posters.

 

No need to apologise though, I didn't mean to imply you were anywhere near in the wrong for doing so. You were just expressing your opinion, but it just didn't seem like something that was being received very well no matter how kindly you or anyone else put it.

 

I can't blame him for feeling ganged up on, especially at this point after this was split into a separate thread... Just gonna say that was a mod and not me and I don't think this was the best decision. x_x Not that this is a topic that shouldn't be discussed, but rather, it shouldn't be opened with calling him out by name and using his quote in particular. I think that's only going to distract from the actual conversation of RL Gender vs IC Gender and make it all still about his statement. Seems like his thread was locked just so the poor guy could become the focus of another, brand new thread solely centered around his words...

[Gegenji]

 

That's kinda more what I mean. While some of the way it was presented leans one way, that doesn't mean what he intended. However, it's easy enough for the thread to derail into the topic of what he said rather than what he meant. Which leads to "skeevy" (i.e. sketchy, dangerous, flame-attracting) discussion over the importance of who is sitting behind the other screen.

 

My apologies, sir!

 

No worries! I was more frightened that I was being misunderstood. :blush:

 

People who may not be able to easily rp with other men on catgrills might not be ready for romance RP.

men on catgrills

catgrills

 

[Maril]

Personally I do not care. I've been in the position where I've thought that RP'ing the gender that isn't yours was a bit weird - not because it felt wrong, but because I couldn't at the time put myself in the mindset of the opposite gender. But it is something that I've gotten over if you would, from simply being around people who do it. I am a female IRL. 

About a year ago I jumped into playing a male character for the first time, which in some ways saved me from the worst end of an RP burnout because it challenged me in a completely new way. My first reaction to it has always been "But I hardly know how a you-know-what-works!". I enjoy playing the character greatly these days, but I live in paranoia about other RP'ers cutting the contact to mine because of it - Which has happened. And I know, you can say that "They're just bad people then!" but like.. It doesn't ease on the discomfort of it. I'd rather get tips and tricks on how to do it better, than just get walked out on. 

 

And if I might be honest.. When I see someone requesting a specific ooc gender it's a huge red flag for me. You might not mean to sound like it matters because of romantic elements that may or may not cross into the realm of OOC, but that is exactly what you end up sounding like, to me - because of past experiences and even the folk that blatantly state such to be the reason.

[Melkire]

Disclaimer: below are my personal views, and do not represent any official RPC stance or position on the matter.

 

 

Let's just put it out there instead of dancing around the issue: people reacted negatively (and are still reacting negatively) because of fears of sexual and/or emotional predation.

 

Personally, I am aware of at least one recent incident within this community that involved male-to-female abuse, and would not be surprised that that incident is what had everyone on edge earlier today. That said, I'm very, very disappointed that members of this community would, as someone else so colorfully put it before I did, preemptively reach for the torches and pitchforks with regards to a simple request made by a completely different member of the community who, as far as I'm aware, is unassociated with the aforementioned incident, or any incident, for that matter. I am especially disappointed because, in this case, clarifications had already been made.

 

Mob mentality. "Guilty until proven innocent".

 

Yech.

[SessionZero]

You can just avoid stating what gender the player is behind the character.

 

I think some people still think I'm a guy after RPING as tiny Lala Kage for a while.

 

<-- Totally thought Kage was a dude until this post.

[Faye]

Maybe I'm... insensitive or can't read or something, but most of the posts I've seen criticizing the guy have been pretty tame and not exactly closed-minded or jumping the gun...? Most people have expressed confusion or suspicion, which I'm fairly certain implies they're not only open to explanation from the OP but hoping/asking for one. I haven't seen anyone scream at the dude, "You want OOC sex/romance and nothing you can say will prove me otherwise, let's get 'em guys!!"

 

Personally, I was hoping for an explanation because I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe his initial claim of not pursuing any OOC romance. But the only responses he gave were pretty much "It's what I prefer" and "I SAID PREFERABLY!!" Those replies didn't exactly help me understand where he's coming from any better.

[K'nahli]

I can't blame him for feeling ganged up on, especially at this point after this was split into a separate thread... Just gonna say that was a mod and not me and I don't think this was the best decision. x_x Not that this is a topic that shouldn't be discussed, but rather, it shouldn't be opened without calling him out by name and using his quote in particular. I think that's only going to distract from the actual conversation of RL Gender vs IC Gender and make it all still about his statement. Seems like his thread was locked just so the poor guy could become the focus of another, brand new thread solely centered around his words...

 

*nods*

 

I was only about to click onto the second page when I realised that it had been closed and split so I can't speak for the intent but I think you're right in that he shouldn't really remain the subject of the matter, even if he is no longer reading it. Having said that I'm sure it simply wasn't anticipated ^^

 

*Quickly flicks back through thread*

 

 

 

Edit:

 

Maybe I'm... insensitive or can't read or something, but most of the posts I've seen criticizing the guy have been pretty tame and not exactly closed-minded or jumping the gun...? Most people have expressed confusion or suspicion, which I'm fairly certain implies they're not only open to explanation from the OP but hoping/asking for one. I haven't seen anyone scream at the dude, "You want OOC sex/romance and nothing you can say will prove me otherwise, let's get 'em guys!!"

 

Personally, I was hoping for an explanation because I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe his initial claim of not pursuing any OOC romance. But they only responses he gave were pretty much "It's what I prefer" and "I SAID PREFERABLY!!" Those replies didn't exactly help me understand where he's coming from any better.

 

It's subjective I think. From an outside point of view you can say that nothing particularly accusatory or mean was said but the tone of the messages, particularly so when they occur in bulk, can definitely be taken as harsh. At the end of the day, I personally don't think it's anyone's fault since everyone had the best intentions. Misunderstandings happen.

[Melkire]

Thread's been pruned. Took me a while to get to it, since I'm doing this from work.

[K'nahli]

Thread's been pruned. Took me a while to get to it, since I'm doing this from work.

 

Miii, sorry! I got a little caught up in myself. I should have done so sooner in your stead.

 

In any case, let's try to keep to the topic in a general sense as opposed to the specific instance involving the other user ^^

 

In which case, to add my own very, brief input.... I must admit I am slightly of the opinion that I'd be wary knowing there was a male behind the screen of another female character if said female character was of a certain.... style. I'm a male myself so it's nothing to do with the gender itself but unfortunately it usually does seem to be male gamers that come off as creepy when it comes to certain areas.... and I say that as someone with zero experience with romance RP; just the general things you encounter in the wonderful world of online games - and perhaps the internet in general.

[Desu Nee]

I think the thread served it's purpose really. Can't we talk about awesome crossdressers now?

 

[OttoVann]

Otto looks fucking amazing in a skirt. Ive posted proof before, shall I do it again?

[Edvyn]

looking for a black mage who also practices black magic OOC

 

zazas zazas nasatanada zazas 8-)

[Desu Nee]

Otto looks fucking amazing in a skirt.  Ive posted proof before, shall I do it again?

yes

[Phayte]

I'll put it out there that I'm ok rather people have a preference or not in terms of RL gender, especially if that person is new to RP. When I first started roleplaying, I wanted to be open because that was the politically correct thing to do. However, when I did actually learn the other person's gender, my IC and OOC interaction with them immediately changed.

 

Years later though, I honestly couldn't care less what you were. I won't ask, but if you offer, it won't affect me one bit either. I think this even goes beyond just the gender issue and more about being too quick to judge. I understand that most people had good intention of trying to help people keep their minds open and broaden options, but I think it does the exact opposite.

 

Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but I find it somewhat sad to think about killing someone's desires RP just over this reason (so long as it wasn't intentionally malicious or predatory). I think after the first few posts, it should have just been left to that person to make their decision and move on. We could have easily turned away someone who would've been a great addition to the community just because of first impressions.

[Gegenji]

I think the thread served it's purpose really. Can't we talk about awesome crossdressers now?

 

 

Most people can't seem to tell a boy lala apart from a girl lala most of the time, does that count?

[Faye]

looking for a black mage who also practices black magic OOC

 

zazas zazas nasatanada zazas 8-)

 

some1 cant understend how 2 practise black mageic inless they r black mage irl

[Gegenji]

looking for a black mage who also practices black magic OOC

 

zazas zazas nasatanada zazas 8-)

 

some1 cant understend how 2 practise black mageic inless they r black mage irl

 

I won't RP with any Scholars unless their player can accurately describe the pros and cons of the various battlefield strategies used during the American Civil War.