Questions about playing a seeker.

[Ashianna]

 

Though tia would be easier to explain I hope you didn't feel "bullied" (to use a really OTT word) into choosing it by peoples' personal opinions ^^

 

 

Oh no! Not at all! It was actually a point he had brought up when we first started talking about the pair. He didn't believe you could be an adventurer and a nuhn. I was the one that suggested bringing it to you all as there are so many knowledgeable people here and the miqo'te lore is one that I know has been discussed at length here. What better place to pick the brains of like-minded people? 

 

 

 

(Of course if you're going with the pack structure I suggested, if the nunh could convince a small pack to all take up adventuring, that's one possibility.  He maintains his position and authority by leading his pack on adventures.)

 

 

I don't have a Miqo'te (yet, I have a goofball Keeper idea I may or may not run with for laughs at some point), but I skimmed through the thread and this little bit caught my eye.

 

I wonder if something like this could work. It'd be like the Seeker equivalent of a tribal Adventurer's Guild. I could see the Nunh as the "quest giver" and person basically in charge of hunting down quests and assignments, then passing them on to the females, who go out and do them. An almost business-style approach to the tribal life that could be adapted to living in or around the city.

 

... Dangit, now I have two Miqo'te concepts now. Must resist making business-oriented Cactaur Tribe.

 

 

I must have missed that entirely yesterday. That is a very interesting concept indeed. After some discussion we have 2 possibilities. 

 

1 - He was already a Nuhn, but ends up losing a challenge to a Tia. He plays a very noble and honor bound character, so when feelings start to emerge for my character, it is a struggle for him. Ultimately, they choose to leave the tribe and adventure together. Lots of internal conflict for him, which makes for great character development. If we choose this option, we certainly plan to play the pair struggling with the difference between tribal life and city/adventuring life. 

 

or

 

2 - Their tribe was all but destroyed/scattered after the calamity. His character had been traveling alone since, trying to find the other members of his tribe. He manages to find W'aisha and a couple other female members of the tribe, one perhaps with a couple of small children. They band together as a tribe, yet instead of settling down and finding territory, they decide to travel in the hopes of finding other lost members of their tribe. 

 

I have obviously simplified the ideas down to the bare details to make it understandable and not too long of a read (at least not till we are ready to tell the tale!  ). I am curious to hear others thoughts.

 

Edit: K'mih would be happy to meet more tribal miqo'tes!

 

Oh absolutely! I really enjoy the tribal/clan aspect of the miqo'te and would very much love to meet other tribal miqo'tes. Not to say, I wouldn't be happy to meet non-tribal miqo'tes as well, I'm always happy to meet other rpers. It would certainly make for an interesting interactions as she would struggle to understand their lifestyle at first :lol:

[Kamome]

I think both of your options described above align well with the lore and have interesting dramatic hooks. The second one, in particular, is a really nice spin on how to do tribal RP. The first option would probably give you two a lot more flexibility in how you play and RP with others, however.

 

If you two do end up going with the second option, I can see that being a great starting point for RPing with others--personally, I think that would be a wonderful basis for an FC or I guess just a regular RPing group.

 

Nice work!

[Desu Nee]

I seriously avoid Miq'ote for this same reason. Wrapping my head around the tribal customs just gives me a headache, and I always disliked tribe concepts, lol.

[Gegenji]

I seriously avoid Miq'ote for this same reason. Wrapping my head around the tribal customs just gives me a headache, and I always disliked tribe concepts, lol.

 

I'm a bit the other way, I think. It's... hard to explain but I like having more solidified lore and such. It gives me something to align to, or be able to bend with some reasonable amount of explanation. There's also some comfort in being able to put forth an idea and be able to point to something and say "Well, it says in this case..." if someone asks about it.

 

Which, I suppose... would work with most lore, tribal or no.

[Desu Nee]

I seriously avoid Miq'ote for this same reason. Wrapping my head around the tribal customs just gives me a headache, and I always disliked tribe concepts, lol.

 

I'm a bit the other way, I think. It's... hard to explain but I like having more solidified lore and such. It gives me something to align to, or be able to bend with some reasonable amount of explanation. There's also some comfort in being able to put forth an idea and be able to point to something and say "Well, it says in this case..." if someone asks about it.

 

Which, I suppose... would work with most lore, tribal or no.

I'm not saying I don't like solidified lore, I do. I do like to make exceptions and bend and explore the concepts and shucks, I even got ideas as we speak it's just that Miq'ote in particular just...doesn't attract me I suppose. I'm all for lore and I plan on making an Ishgardian soon, may be more of my own tendency to not like tribal concepts than anything, if I really wanted to make a Miq'ote I would.

Not saying I find Miq'otes boring, I seen many awesome ones play aamzing concepts on them, Tias specially and I do find interesting, I just don't see myself making a tribal Miq'ote. I like to have a character that follows certain lore, but that I can have any personality I wish and interactions in the way I want, and even though it definetly don't do that, Miq'ote lore seems a bit too cookie cutter for me, unless I just make the SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE.

 

Dunno, some things just don't really feel rational just...eh.

[Naunet]

I think tribes are kind of like nationalities, not political allegiances. If you were born a wolf, and start a new tribe, it's still the wolf tribe, just a different wolf tribe.

 

 

I was basing my knowledge off of this wiki page which is based off of this community post, but of course, wikis, anyone can edit, yada yada yada, so I do apologize if my understanding is totally off-base and just based off of some random dude's rambling.

 

I've never seen anything in the official lore about the added letter, and it's certainly not something shown in-game. My understanding has always been that the letter prefix remains the same, but "the Hipparion Tribe" is made up of more than one population, possibly with dramatically different customs depending on distance/isolation. Still starts with K, though.

[Kage]

Here's the lore post.

 

When the Seekers of the Sun came to Eorzea from their homelands, there were only 26 tribes. Since that time, there have been some males who, instead of defeating their tribe's nunh and becoming a breeding male by normal means, opt to leave the tribe and form their own. However, it is rare for female Seekers of the Sun to follow these males, so these newly formed tribes almost always die out.

 

This does not mean that it doesn't happen.

If a male leaves to form his own tribe, he will replace the letter from his original tribe (for example, the "Y" in Y'shtola) with a new one. Since the 26 letters of the Eorzean alphabet are already taken, the new tribal prefix will be often be two letters (Ma -> Ma'shtola) which are of the tribe-forming male's choosing (and all people in his tribe will use that same prefix).

 

His last name will be Nunh, as he is now the new breeding male (as designated by himself) of his new tribe.

 

While not impossible (people can do what they want with their names), a Seeker of the Sun choosing his mother's name to be his last, would amount to shunning his culture and adopting the rules of the Keepers of the Moon. There will be some Seekers of the Sun who will respect this, but others who frown upon it.

 

Hope that helps!!

 

Edit: While I'm at it, totally interesting things about seekers...

Nunh and tia are the same as both plural and singular. So no "tias" or "nunhs"

 

In regards to how big hunting grounds are, they're big enough to sustain a population of 20-50 females and the few odd tia.

[FreelanceWizard]

Yep, to the best of my knowledge, that's correct. "Normal" miqo'te branches of a tribe in the tribe's various hunting grounds all use the same letter, but they can have very different traditions, personalities, and behaviors.

 

The added letter thing only applies when a tia sets out on his own and attempts to start a totally new tribe, as opposed to going through the normal approach of acquiring new hunting grounds or defeating an existing nunh. This post describes that, and this post explains that it's quite rare and marks those involved as outcasts.

 

The terminology is pretty tricky. Here's a simple breakdown for those who're confused:

• Clan: A sub-race. For miqo'te, those are the Seekers of the Sun and the Keepers of the Moon. The Seekers are broken down further into 26...
  
• Tribe: A set of miqo'te of common descent from the 26 original groups that traveled to Eorzea during the Fifth Umbral Era. Tribes use a prefix letter based on a totem animal and consist of multiple...
  
• Hunting ground: A territory in which one group of miqo'te lives, with a single nunh, some tia, and 20-50 breeding females.
  

Certainly, other divisions besides these could exist (such as a "territory" that consists of multiple hunting grounds that work together, a "branch" that consists of multiple hunting grounds that share traditions due to common descent, or even subdivisions of a single large hunting ground with their own nunh and some sort of tribal council), but clan-tribe-hunting grounds is the "basic" structure outlined in the dev lore posts.

[Ha'uruh Nunh]

I've had to defend Howl's "nunhship" (though he's never himself introduced himself by the title nor even spoken of it save to two people) more times than I care to say.

 

Suffice it to say that most RPers who are aware of the lore behind the position will usually have an IC reason for why their character is a nunh and an adventurer.  A lot of us get a lot of scrutiny and flak about it too.  Since Howl's particular circumstances aren't public knowledge, I usually just say that it's involved in his backstory more than anything that he claims publically.

[K'nahli]

Not to keep this going, (he says, while doing just that) though it doesn't say exactly if a Nunh is considered the leader, it would make sense that the strongest of the tribe, in this can, the Nunh, would be leader of said tribe.

 

No as stated before, none of this isbfacts, and is just my own opinion

 

I know you mentioned that it's only your opinion but...

 

Nunh status does not equate to leadership within a tribe, and in fact, very few nunh ever become leaders.

(taken from here)

 

...that's why most people don't associate nunh with being leaders. While strength is an admirable and welcoming trait to have in one's leader, I don't necessarily agree that it would generally make more sense for them to automatically take the role, especially if the tribe as a whole was aware that a nunh in particular wasn't exactly the wisest guy around.

[Branson Thorne]

Not to keep this going, (he says, while doing just that) though it doesn't say exactly if a Nunh is considered the leader, it would make sense that the strongest of the tribe, in this can, the Nunh, would be leader of said tribe.

 

No as stated before, none of this isbfacts, and is just my own opinion

 

I know you mentioned that it's only your opinion but...

 

Nunh status does not equate to leadership within a tribe, and in fact, very few nunh ever become leaders.

(taken from here)

 

...that's why most people don't associate nunh with being leaders. While strength is an admirable and welcoming trait to have in one's leader, I don't necessarily agree that it would generally make more sense for them to automatically take the role, especially if the tribe as a whole was aware that a nunh in particular wasn't exactly the wisest guy around.

 

Hmm, I stand corrected, I totally missed that!

[K'nahli]

B-But your opinion is totally justified, of course! There lore explicitly implied that it can and does happen, simply not that often ^^

[Branson Thorne]

B-But your opinion is totally justified, of course! There lore explicitly implied that it can and does happen, simply not that often ^^

 

I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong:)

[Aya]

Its a shame that male Seekers require a last name.  Wouldn't it be better just to let it go unstated?  That said, how much of this is just due to the random name generator providing "Nunh" as an option and players having no clue that it entails something?

[Gegenji]

Another interesting thought here is this: Nunhs are usually only challenged by Tias, right? So yes, he's the strongest male in the tribe. Not the strongest overall. There could reasonably be a female who has more pull, more clout, or just plain stronger than the Nunh.  They do go out on the hunts and all.

 

So the current Nunh may not even be the strongest in the tribe either, just stronger than the rest of the males.

 

EDIT: "strong stronger"? I type good. STRONG STRONGER STRENGTH STRONG STRONG. HUGE GUTS. RIP AND TEAR.

[K'nahli]

Another interesting thought here is this: Nunhs are usually only challenged by Tias, right? So yes, he's the strongest male in the tribe. Not the strongest overall. There could reasonably be a female who has more pull, more clout, or just plain stronger than the Nunh.  They do go out on the hunts and all.

 

So the current Nunh may not even be the strongest in the tribe either, strong stronger than the rest of the males.

 

*nods*

 

Whenever I say "the strongest" I typically add "male at least" in there too just to be safe but I sort of like the notion of him being the best overall as well, at least in my tribe's personal circumstances, since it feels as though it gives his position more meaning since females don't go through the same process...

 

WHICH MAKES ME WONDER.....

 

 

Given this setup, surely females whom are lackluster hunters(few though they may be) would drawn upon some concern too? In the case of a shaman/healer whom avoids hunts you could argue that a coupling would be to ensure at least one birth from a mother whom has an affinity for dealing with aether perhaps, but aside from that...

*thinks*

[Gegenji]

Given this setup, surely females whom are lackluster hunters(few though they may be) would drawn upon some concern too? In the case of a shaman/healer whom avoids hunts you could argue that a coupling would be to ensure at least one birth from a mother whom has an affinity for dealing with aether perhaps, but aside from that...

*thinks*

 

I would think so. The goal is to provide a strong next generation, on both fronts. Like your example, even a shaman - though possibly physically weak - provides a boon to the tribe that will want to be maintained. Same with, say, a good leader of men or tactician. They are still doing something to give back to the tribe, even if it's not through actively participating in the hunts.

 

If you had a sickly female born that grew up to be little more than another mouth to feed and nothing to give back to the tribe, however, I could certainly see them being considered not worthy to bear the Nunh's children. The resulting offspring may carry the strengths of the Nunh, but they may equally be weakened by the weaknesses in this particular female. Heck, in a more primitive/hard-pressed tribe, I could even see her being cast out and left to fend for herself (or die).

[Naunet]

Suffice it to say that most RPers who are aware of the lore behind the position will usually have an IC reason for why their character is a nunh and an adventurer.  A lot of us get a lot of scrutiny and flak about it too.

 

Or, y'know, maybe the RPer in question isn't roleplaying an adventurer... people make an awful lot of assumptions.

[K'nahli]

Same with, say, a good leader of men or tactician. They are still doing something to give back to the tribe, even if it's not through actively participating in the hunts.

 

If you had a sickly female born that grew up to be little more than another mouth to feed and nothing to give back to the tribe, however, I could certainly see them being considered not worthy to bear the Nunh's children. The resulting offspring may carry the strengths of the Nunh, but they may equally be weakened by the weaknesses in this particular female. Heck, in a more primitive/hard-pressed tribe, I could even see her being cast out and left to fend for herself (or die).

 

Yes, exactly. You worded it better than I have. If not raw physical strength then at least some, desirable attribute. Though my tribe doesn't seem to see it that way, I find it pretty understandable to be just as careful with females too.... assuming a tribe can afford to be so picky(population and age distribution-wise).

[Desu Nee]

I'm just reading this and learning since I made a Keeper alt that will possibly be from a mixed tribe.

 

 

Seriously, hypocrital as fuck I am.

[K'nahli]

I'm just reading this and learning since I made a Keeper alt that will possibly be from a mixed tribe.

 

 

Seriously, hypocrital as fuck I am.

 

Hypocritical?

[Gegenji]

I'm just reading this and learning since I made a Keeper alt that will possibly be from a mixed tribe.

 

 

Seriously, hypocrital as fuck I am.

 

Hypocritical?

 

Desu made a couple posts in these sorts of threads about not getting, or being very interested in, tribal cultures like the Miqo'te. The fact that she has a Keeper alt and planning to make her own tribe would certainly seem like quite the 180, don't you agree?

 

... Also, still thinking about that Cactaur "business" Seeker tribe. I only just got started on my goofball Judge alt, I can't be thinking about ANOTHER alt already. :blush:

[Desu Nee]

Oh, because I said earlier that I wouldn't ever make a Miq'ote because I dislike tribal concepts.

 

 

Then Balmung opened and I made 3 alts. One of them is a Keeper I will use Fantasia later to tweak better, and she's a Keeper. Since I didn't like the Keeper lore and I like making stuff, I do plan on making a mixed tribe, since I did heard from the lore ( Don't ask, I don't remember ) that those case exists and it makes their offspring naming complicated.

 

SO, I'm not only making a Miq'ote. I'm making a tribe. Going completely against what I said :U

[K'nahli]

Ahh! I remember that now actually. Sorry for the confusion, haha.

 

 

@Gegenji

Well do keep us updated please! I'd like to hear how it goes ^^

[V'aleera]

If you had a sickly female born that grew up to be little more than another mouth to feed and nothing to give back to the tribe, however, I could certainly see them being considered not worthy to bear the Nunh's children. The resulting offspring may carry the strengths of the Nunh, but they may equally be weakened by the weaknesses in this particular female. Heck, in a more primitive/hard-pressed tribe, I could even see her being cast out and left to fend for herself (or die).

The only problem I have with this line of speculation is that it's not addressed in the lore outside the game and the only in-game lore actually contradicts it: one of the main questlines for the U tribe/Forgotten Springs area is about a female Seeker who is clearly just terrible at being a huntress. But rather than denigrate her for her failures, she's constantly assisted and encouraged and eventually guided toward a path that is more becoming of her skills.