What comes next?

[Erik Mynhier]

So there is a thread on the official forums about the next tank, found here: Thread.

 

I thought this was interesting and was wanting to expand it a bit to what you suspect will be coming down the line in the coming year, and very importantly, why you think it will. I'll just repost what I wrote already but I'll add other stuff down the way.

 

I believe the next Tank job will be Samurai, and here's why I think that.

 

1. They are drawing from FFT right now pretty heavily, and have been sort of since the ARR reboot. The skills of the SAM in FFT have a defensive feel to them. They could be easily adapted to our current system.

 

2. Its one of the most demanded Jobs, both here in the West and in other markets, importantly their home market.

 

3. There are many iconic jobs in FF, but few have Heavy Armor. As it stands now, playstyles in this game share Armor sets. So looking at outfits worn by Tanks there are only a few that would seem to fit the look. Maybe Templars, Judges (actually also possible as the Judge look is found in the Empire, see #4) or Knights (which are often separate from PLD/DRK). So as they seem to keep things in a pattern, there are actually few iconic options. As much as a blink-tank or Mage style tank would be fun, I don't see them letting that happen.

 

4. We have been told the next push will take us into the Empire, and with the importance of Doma and Ala Mhigo (both having ties already to "Eastern" style Jobs, Ninja/Monk), it is most possible that we shall see an Eastern flair to counterbalance the Western feel of the upcoming expansion (western dragons, knights, castles, an astrologer job, a "cowboy" job, and so on). We may not only see Samurai (Japan), but other Eastern flavored jobs like Dancer (Near East), or Mystic (China). Both the Near East (middle east to americans) and China are growing markets for this game and the global economy at large. It makes sense to see them represented in a game like this, if only stereotypically.

 

5. Because..... Samurai

[Kellach Woods]

I agree that it can't really be Knight - That usually replaces Paladin when they don't want the class to cast White Magic right out the gate (which also explains why the current Paladin class can crossclass with CNJ - However, the functionality of the Knight class in FF1 is definitely Paladin-like, and more importantly the "Knight" is the titular Warrior of Light as per Dissidia/Theatrhythm).

 

I also personally believe it'll be Samurai, and my personal hopes are that it'll come with Perfect Dodge type mechanics to go with the Swordmaster interpretation of Bravely Default, bringing a reactive way of building threat by successfully doing counters to your enemies' attacks or something to that extent.

 

Alternately, I'll take references to Cyan/Cayenne for 500, with a special bar to charge by NOT attacking. Would be even more blatant because I shouldn't have to spell it out for you people.

 

But here's what could be if it's not the very obvious Samurai -

Magic Knight - Though not typically a tank based class, they could easily make it that like they did for Dark Knight. Dark Knights were also not famed for using two-handed swords. (Even the titular Cecil used sword and board and FFIII was so biased towards using dual-wielding we may as well not count it) so they could even have their swords changed.

 

Red Mage - Typically the only "mage" class that can equip good weapons, and in III had their own subclass of weapon that only they could use. Very out of left field, and would certainly be something meaty enough in mechanics to warrant playing.

 

Blue Mage - Though IIRC I heard that they would never implement this class due to the difficulty of matching it with XIV's system, I feel that since they'd be tanks, it would also make sense that their abilities come from experiencing enemies' attacks. Though I have to admit, Self-Destruct on a Tank sounds like the best way to troll groups so I doubt that'd ever happen even if I want it really bad.

 

Here's what could NOT be -

Berserker/Viking - Too close in inspiration to Warrior in XIV for them to really be implemented. Viking has the maritime inspiration to the Marauder, and Berserker led us to the Inner Beast mechanic.

 

Geomancer - Though the power of the Earth could very well offer interesting armor, it's too close in theme to Conjurer for it to be a thing, but tanking with Bells would be hilarious.

[Chris Ganale]

Yoshi's already said that SAM will be dps, not tank.

[Kellach Woods]

Source pls.

[Dravus]

death knights please blizzard

[Chris Ganale]

It was in one of the live letters. He said that SAM felt more a dps than a tank to him. It was a while ago and my girlfriend follows those more closely than I do.

[Perth]

Located with a quick Google search~

 

[Kellach Woods]

Eh, I'd take "inside feels more" as something he'd push more for, but I wouldn't treat that as gospel.

 

Mostly because they'd have to come up with something else for a new tank. The possibilities are kind of exhausted.

[Chris Ganale]

My google-fu is clearly not up to scruff.

[Zyrusticae]

He said something similar about Dark Knight - something about it not being heroic and as such he'd rather not have it in the game at all, but lo and behold the first official reveal was DRK. (I'm guessing other folks internally sold him on it by comparing the class to Batman.)

 

Wouldn't be surprised if he reneges on SAM as DPS and we end up getting it as tank, AS WAS ALWAYS MEANT TO BE KTHX.

 

Seriously tho, we need more tank classes. Need! And if we get SAM as tank I swear I will never play anything else!

[Chris Ganale]

No, it's really not meant to be tank. We have two sword tanking classes already, what we need is a sword dps.

[Gegenji]

Red Mage - Typically the only "mage" class that can equip good weapons, and in III had their own subclass of weapon that only they could use. Very out of left field, and would certainly be something meaty enough in mechanics to warrant playing.

 

Blue Mage - Though IIRC I heard that they would never implement this class due to the difficulty of matching it with XIV's system, I feel that since they'd be tanks, it would also make sense that their abilities come from experiencing enemies' attacks. Though I have to admit, Self-Destruct on a Tank sounds like the best way to troll groups so I doubt that'd ever happen even if I want it really bad.

 

FFTA also has Red Mages starting to use rapiers and other fencing swords, too, so you'd have a unique weapon set for them. I could also see them following some of FFXI's roots and having the Spikes and the Elemental attack buff spells to help support. Perhaps another DPS class that can Swiftcast-Rez like SMN, too?

 

Blue Mage I see being like the BRD, though. Utility. If they implemented it, I would figure they'd have a wide array of abilities of varying effects to help assist in all sorts of different situations. Stuff like Mighty Guard for mitigation, White Wind for healing, Bad Breath for debuffing, that sort of stuff. Even Explosion might work like the version of the Bombs that DON'T die after using it - perhaps as an AoE that does damage to the caster as well?

 

As for new suggestions from me, well, a lot of the ones I'm interested in were already mentioned. I do remember a friend of a friend mentioning they'd like to see Beastmaster come back from FFXI. Grab yourself a buddy and use THAT to fight things.

[Zyrusticae]

No, it's really not meant to be tank. We have two sword tanking classes already, what we need is a sword dps.

 

Well, I completely disagree. Katanas are intrinsically different from greatswords and sword and board, and we're going to get an active parry/dodge tank class at some point so it may as well be SAM (since it wasn't NIN).

 

That being said, it's not like I'm not sympathetic to people who want a SAM DPS class (particularly since, historically, katanas have always been fragile weapons poorly suited to parrying and blocking). The problem is that it is likely the tank role will be understaffed even after the release of DRK, and I want that problem to be solved. It's either they throw in another tank class sooner than later OR they change group compositions across the board, and the latter is a much, much bigger and more destructive change.

 

Or I could be jumping the gun here and DRK ends up more popular than both of the current tank classes combined. Wouldn't that be an interesting curveball? Heh. Either way, I don't want DPS queues remaining this lengthy forever. Throw them folks a bone, you know?

[Kellach Woods]

Tanks/Heals will NEVER be staffed enough for the needs of any MMO.

 

There are simply too many DPS classes that are fun to play as opposed to these two roles which simply aren't for most players. I lucked out and they made WAR fun as hell for me but until they solve that mechanical problem, it doesn't matter how fast the queues are, it doesn't matter how rewarded you are for it, few people will want to do it.

[Chris Ganale]

You very, very much underestimate the popularity of DRK. It's in at least the top 10 most popular jobs, if not top 5.

[Zyrusticae]

Tanks/Heals will NEVER be staffed enough for the needs of any MMO.

 

There are simply too many DPS classes that are fun to play as opposed to these two roles which simply aren't for most players. I lucked out and they made WAR fun as hell for me but until they solve that mechanical problem, it doesn't matter how fast the queues are, it doesn't matter how rewarded you are for it, few people will want to do it.

Hence why I want more tank classes that are fun to play to help mitigate the issue.

 

Funny thing, from my memory Aion never really had this problem simply because both templars and especially gladiators were (probably still are) really fun to play and also very competent at dishing out as good as they take. Every time someone says tanks will always be understaffed, I think back to that game.

 

Then again, I am biased as someone who usually mains a tank class to begin with. Still, FFXIV is particularly egregious in this regard and this is largely because the game's ridiculous 1-1-2 group composition completely ignores the reality of the game as it stands. Since that's not changing, the only solution is to throw in MOAR TANKS.

 

Btw, Astrologian is more popular than Dark Knight, as weird as that sounds. Unless that poll is not a representative sample (and at 5000 votes that is extremely unlikely), healers will still be considerably more common than tanks, though Machinist's lack of popularity may help balance things out a bit.

[Gegenji]

Btw, Astrologian is more popular than Dark Knight, as weird as that sounds. Unless that poll is not a representative sample (and at 5000 votes that is extremely unlikely), healers will still be considerably more common than tanks, though Machinist's lack of popularity may help balance things out a bit.

 

Wait, wait, the Machinist ISN'T popular? Maybe it's just Balmung, but I've been hearing plenty of people that want to switch their main over to Machinist as soon as it drops. Heck, there are plenty of folks RPing people who use guns already.

[Kage]

Btw, Astrologian is more popular than Dark Knight, as weird as that sounds. Unless that poll is not a representative sample (and at 5000 votes that is extremely unlikely), healers will still be considerably more common than tanks, though Machinist's lack of popularity may help balance things out a bit.

 

Wait, wait, the Machinist ISN'T popular? Maybe it's just Balmung, but I've been hearing plenty of people that want to switch their main over to Machinist as soon as it drops. Heck, there are plenty of folks RPing people who use guns already.

It... might be the whole "god I know a new DPS will be super popular so I'll run a healer because it's easier to heal than to tank!"

[Gegenji]

Btw, Astrologian is more popular than Dark Knight, as weird as that sounds. Unless that poll is not a representative sample (and at 5000 votes that is extremely unlikely), healers will still be considerably more common than tanks, though Machinist's lack of popularity may help balance things out a bit.

 

Wait, wait, the Machinist ISN'T popular? Maybe it's just Balmung, but I've been hearing plenty of people that want to switch their main over to Machinist as soon as it drops. Heck, there are plenty of folks RPing people who use guns already.

It... might be the whole "god I know a new DPS will be super popular so I'll run a healer because it's easier to heal than to tank!"

 

Ah, still suffering from Post-Ninja Syndrome. That makes sense. I know I certainly planned to and did level PLD and WAR both to 50 on Gogon on the back of a thousand Ninjas.

[Kage]

Btw, Astrologian is more popular than Dark Knight, as weird as that sounds. Unless that poll is not a representative sample (and at 5000 votes that is extremely unlikely), healers will still be considerably more common than tanks, though Machinist's lack of popularity may help balance things out a bit.

 

Wait, wait, the Machinist ISN'T popular? Maybe it's just Balmung, but I've been hearing plenty of people that want to switch their main over to Machinist as soon as it drops. Heck, there are plenty of folks RPing people who use guns already.

It... might be the whole "god I know a new DPS will be super popular so I'll run a healer because it's easier to heal than to tank!"

 

Ah, still suffering from Post-Ninja Syndrome. That makes sense. I know I certainly planned to and did level PLD and WAR both to 50 on Gogon on the back of a thousand Ninjas.

I ran out of WAR and WHM really fast >.>; leaving me to level melee in the wake of all da ninjas. /cry The brief moment I had to level BRD was when I knew what melee queues were like when BRD/BLM leveling queues were bad. Now it's melee. 30 min queues again. I can't read trends >.>;

[Warren Castille]

To continue mucking up the tank/nottank argument:

 

People tend to play ROLES, not CLASSES. Making Samurai a tank will not add to the pool of people playing tanks: It will certainly have people level to the level cap on it, and for a brief period of time, low level roulette will have more tanks in it, but ultimately, people do not want the responsibility of playing a tank in an MMO. Similar to healers not knowing what they're doing and being afraid of looking bad, the social pressure of being the first in line to wipe your entire group forces people away from playing the class.

 

People might fall in love with Samurai and play it in fates, and dungeons, but it will not make a meaningful number of people moving from DPS to Tank as their primary role.

[Gegenji]

People tend to play ROLES, not CLASSES.

 

Right. We've seen that on a couple occasions here already, with folks actively being worried about going into the endgame dungeons due to not wanting to screw the run up. It takes a bit of work to try and overcome that feeling, and it still might not be completely vanquished. I've been kinda tempted to try the EX Primals, for example, yet I'm still worried about messing something up even with an i121 SCH and an i124 PLD.

[Zyrusticae]

There is some leeway in that given all the places where bad DPS can and will wipe the whole party. This is especially true in any situation where DPS checks are a thing (though any outside of Coil or Odin are generally too easy to succeed at, and they did end up nerfing AK's DPS check for a reason).

 

At any rate, I guess I'm an exception here then, because I play classes and not roles. I'm just at home playing BRD as I am playing DRG as I am playing WAR, though I did get bored of WAR after playing nothing but it for several months straight, which is why I want another tank class that is actually interesting to me. You're really, really spoiled for choice with DPS classes but even after DRK is released you'll have three tank class versus three healing classes versus seven DPS classes, which is just a weird place to be.

 

If I am allowed to be completely selfish here, I just want a stylistically cool katana-wielding tank class that I can play for no other reason than that is a class that I would play ALL THE TIME and I don't want to deal with DPS queues. The role is otherwise irrelevant to me. I will likely play SAM even if it ends up a DPS class, but I will be moaning about missed opportunities all the while.

[Kage]

If I remember correctly Yoshi-P mentioned some time ago that he envisioned a Samurai job, if they would have one which they currently don't, as a DD

[Gegenji]

Oh, I think there's plenty of folks who play the classes for the classes. If not for the base mechanics of that class, then possibly for the fluff. The latter is doubly so in an RP server like Balmung, though I have seen cases where the character is one class IC and the player uses another OOCly as their "main."

 

Heck, I would go so far to say I would totally make Chachan a SAM if such a thing dropped. While I'd still say that IC he was a Paladin (since at that point I'd HOPE he had finished his Trials and been properly knighted), I always like to think that a bit of Doman style has crept into how he fights (to the point that I imagine his sword toss more like the Fuma Shuriken than what's shown). As such, a oriental-style swordsman would probably fit him better.

 

Stuff like that just goes... beyond the basic "tank/healer/DPS" angle, but I think that's a given considering. And then there's the people playing things that have no class at all to go with them.

 

... If they do include a Samurai, though, I'm hoping they have a Gil Toss style attack (their "ranged" attack a la the Shield Toss/Tomahawk/Throwing Knives?). I still fondly remember Zeninage from FF5.