"Bleed" - Article & Thoughts

[BumblingSeaBiscuit]

Recently, an article came across my facebook on the action known to writers as, "Bleed." This is the spillover between players and characters. I thought that the article itself was a neat perspective to read. I'm sure this has been discussed to the ends of the world and back, and I'm not looking for this thread to turn into an argument but it would be interesting to know how people feel after reading the article. You can find it *here. <3

 

*I apologize if this has already been brought to light, I couldn't find this mentioned anywhere.

[Magellan]

Very interesting article, solid read. I was guilty of a lot of bleed with my first FFXIV character. I was still pretty new to rp, and felt both her joys and her heartaches way too hard. While it made for intensely satisfying, rewarding rp, and a sense of boundless, pure creativity, it also had the Icarus effect: when the story she was in crashed and burned, so too did I. Unfortunately after that, I found myself unable to connect with my characters in any meaningful way.

 

It was a full year before I picked up rp and mmos again, and when I feel bleed at the fringes now, I make sure to strengthen my alibi, as the article coins it. However, I have also managed to find the line where I can connect with my characters again, can fully emphathize with them, even cry and laugh with them, but am able to much better put them down when I am done playing with them and mitigate any sort of negative bleed effect.

 

I see a lot of people make the same mistakes I made, and through my own edperiences know not to judge them by it, but to try and help soften the emotional impact bleed can cause. Only through experience do we learn to identify and properly control this aspect of rp.

[X'zirashah Bakt]

In my experience when we write, we inject little tributes of our soul into our characters, leaving a trail. I have also found that people generally portray three archetypes the best and anything beyond that becomes muddled or blurry.

 

The process that has worked best for me over the course of hundreds of characters is plotting down one trait that can anchor my sympathies to the character to sculpt an organic mold. From there, I decide whether to ink in something completely opposite of my personality to deep waters never navigated otherwise. As it will happen, some characters are prototypes - and you know what, that's okay. 

 

This is an article primarily targeting LARP though, right? It has the same core principles but I think role-play of the likes of what we see on this game needs different consideration. With an MMO like this, it's vastly different because you can hide behind pixels and people tend to be far more drama prone or neck deep in wish fulfillment. In my personal experience, that actually seems to be the biggest problem that role-players face when it comes to "bleed."

 

With LARP, you generally know the people fairly well out of character and there is stricter regulation. It's a good article, but doesn't quite hit the mark to address our type of role-play.

[Dogberry]

Oh wow, it's cool to see Dystopia Rising show up here. DR is the LARP I play in. I've had discussions about "bleed" with the author of this article on the Dystopia Rising facebook page, and she has some really fantastic ideas about debriefings being held after each game. I think I can safely tell you that the bleed I feel after a Dystopia Rising game is vastly different from the bleed I feel from an FFXIV plot.

 

In FFXIV, I am much more likely to experience bleed in. I feel that I am my character's strongest advocate. When bad things happen to them, or I feel they're being treated unfairly, I feel bad for them (even if I'm the one making sure this stuff happens to them). I, more than anyone else, knows my characters struggle, so I root for them. Of course I want them to succeed. It's very easy to get wrapped up in those emotions. It's almost like my character are a relative and I want to look after them sometimes. When those emotions get too strong, I have to pull back a little and take a break until the emotions subside and I can deal with it rationally. This usually takes a couple of hours because I'm aware that it's a game, and a collaborative story. I don't have or want full control over what happens in my character, and can always spin the things that cause bleed into a jumping off point.

 

In Dystopia Rising, the things that happen to my character happen to me. Bleed-out is rampant. When my character can get no sleep because zombies have burst into the shelter he's resting in, I have to physically get up and fight off a bunch of people in costumes with a latex covered sword and shield. When he's hungry and tired from long marches and looking for supplies to bring down to the camp, I'm the one feeling the hunger, the exhaustion, and the paranoia of being exposed in dangerous territory. After a Dystopia Rising event I come home a completely different person, and a lot of people at DR talk about feeling the same way.

 

It's common for a lot of people to want to go to restaurants after events, mostly to mingle, but I've talked with others who say, and I'm among them, that it's a jarring reminder that they've returned to civilization. You just can't get a Red Robin burger in the wastelands. When I get home, the immediate shower I take is the first time I've been actually alone in three days, and I'm enjoying having a little bit of privacy but also kind of worried that someone is going to burst through the door and I'll have to beat them to death with the shower curtain rod. For at least three days I check the surroundings of my car for attackers. I approach blind corners slowly. I always, always, know where my exits are and how many people are around me at any given time. When that song or commercial I hate comes on the radio during my morning commute to work, I don't mind anymore. Do you know how much of a miracle it is that these things even exist?! It sure as shit beats the banjo and bongo combo of Mark and Sand crooning by the bonfire!

 

I'd say a large part of the difference is because of the immersive nature of DR vs. the video-gameyness of FFXIV. Plus, I can always log out of FFXIV. When DR gets too intense, I have a three hour drive home.

[Nebbs]

@Dogberry, as an avid LARPer in my time I can totally relate to that. And the jokes about how do you know you LARP too much are close to true.

 

Yes I checked for my bootknife in a diner on the way back from such an event.

[Aduu Avagnar]

if you're not wearing some armour and carrying a concealed weapon to a LARP dinner or banquet you're doing it wrong....

[Dogberry]

if you're not wearing some armour and carrying a concealed weapon to a LARP dinner or banquet you're doing it wrong....

 

Not to go off topic, but I've pumped gas in West Baltimore dressed like a satyr.

[Warren Castille]

 

 

 

Bleed is, I think, pretty normal when you're effectively writing the path in a choose your own adventure story. We're naturally going to be immersed with fiction; That's the goal, isn't it? Similar to being invested in a movie that makes us laugh or cry, we're pouring a huge number of hours (with the associated real-life costs) into writing an interactive novel. There's nothing wrong with getting some feedback from what transpires.

 

...the problem becomes when these things become largely negative feelings. Getting dragged into a depression spiral over RP is unhealthy and incredibly easy to slip into, sadly. It can be difficult to balance at times.

[allgivenover]

Bleed isn't inherently wrong, which I'm glad the article touched on.

 

New RPers are most commonly guilty of it, but they are hardly the worst offender.

 

In my experience it's most problematic when an RPers only source of self worth and validation is RP. I'd explain further but I'm at work.

[Warren Castille]

Bleed isn't inherently wrong, which I'm glad the article touched on.

 

New RPers are most commonly guilty of it, but they are hardly the worst offender.

 

 

In my experience it's most problematic when an RPers only source of self worth and validation is RP. I'd explain further but I'm at work.

 

I think that's the case for anyone using anything as escapism rather than a hobby. FFXI has a warning screen asking players to not forget their friends, lives, schools or jobs. WoW's loading screens sometimes tell people to take a break. When real life is tough, people have a reflex to shy away and seek happier things. Trouble rarely gets better with time, though, so the sort of things we should be watching for fall by the wayside because it's a lot easier to hang out in the Gold Saucer than it is to do X Y Z real life thing.

 

Of course, if something then sours the RP, there's... bad stuff all around. If your IC-partner suddenly forcefully splits from you, that can leave you in a daze. Guild drama fractures the friendships or relationships that got focused on, leaving someone alone and vulnerable. When the life you've built in-game eclipses the one you live outside of it, there can be jarring emotional explosions if something goes wrong.

 

DOOM AND GLOOM, ROLEPLAY IS THE DEVIL

[Kismet]

My friends and I have always called this "blending", as in blending the line between IC and OOC.

 

When looking for potential RP partners or new recruits to RP guilds in any game, this is one of the BIGGEST red flags we search for. If the character has too much overlap with the person, if their character pretty much just IS the player, or if the player takes things done or said to their character personally... That means it's time to seek other avenues.

 

This is most commonly found in new RPers (as others have probably stated), and in that case, I make exceptions. You're learning and we all had to start somewhere. This is your precious first or second-time character, and you may not quite get (or like) the concept that they are exclusively a tool for entertainment. I understand that.

 

It's when I find traces of this behavior in individuals who have been RPing for a long time that all my alarm bells go off. While dealings vary on a case by case basis, the more unpleasant examples I can recall were extraordinarily unpleasant. I've watched a handful of entire guilds crumble due to this nonsense.

[Warren Castille]

I've watched a handful of entire guilds crumble due to this nonsense.

 

I suspect this to be fairly common in roleplaying circles. It just takes one egomaniac in the center to not like someone's backstory, lore, or attitude to get volatile OOCly, which triggers the domino effect in everyone around them.

 

Statistically, we're due for a blow-up of front-page-news size here sooner or later.

[Hihimi]

Why is escapism being thrown around like a bad word? Is someone roleplaying as a long-distance runner doing it wrong because they are in a wheelchair and always wanted to be a runner? What is wrong with fulfilling our dreams?

[OttoVann]

Why is escapism being thrown around like a bad word? Is someone roleplaying as a long-distance runner doing it wrong because they are in a wheelchair and always wanted to be a runner? What is wrong with fulfilling our dreams?

 

Nothing, but RP elitists will shit all over it.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Why is escapism being thrown around like a bad word? Is someone roleplaying as a long-distance runner doing it wrong because they are in a wheelchair and always wanted to be a runner? What is wrong with fulfilling our dreams?

 

Nothing, but RP elitists will shit all over it.

 

Told myself I wouldn't post here, but here goes.

 

Blending makes better characters, in my opinion. But it has also got this stigma as of late that "a person who blends in their RP" isn't "stable" enough to separate IC from OOC. Which I do not agree with. But then it'll be argued that "blending a little it OK everyone!", but who judges that amount?

[allgivenover]

The word 'escapism' has kind of a negative bend for me because it implies I indulge my hobby to escape something in my life. I RP because I enjoy it. Not because I need to escape some aspect of my life. I would still do it even if every aspect of my life was perfectly satisfying.

 

In fact I'm immediatly wary of overtly depressed RPers who explicitly seek escapism, as they are most likely to manifest bleed in a negative way. While a wheelchair bound RPer escaping reality isn't inherently bad, it certainly is if that is the sole reason for the roleplay or the individual never moves on from the escapism.

 

Indulging in an imaginative situation you can't take part of IRL is not automatically escapism. When I RP a mage it is not because I cannot cast spells IRL. It's the same for the well adjusted wheelchair bound roleplayer.

 

And... although I have no research to back this up I do feel that most RPers tend to RP for the "wrong" reasons, those reasons being disatisfaction with real life and low self esteem/self validation. It is why so many RPers are on the young side, and why so many more give up the hobby by the time they reach my age, and why bleed can be so devastating.

[allgivenover]

Why is escapism being thrown around like a bad word? Is someone roleplaying as a long-distance runner doing it wrong because they are in a wheelchair and always wanted to be a runner? What is wrong with fulfilling our dreams?

 

Nothing, but RP elitists will shit all over it.

 

I'm comfortable with being labeled an elitist.

[Warren Castille]

Escapism: the tendency to seek distraction and relief from unpleasant realities, especially by seeking entertainment or engaging in fantasy.

 

Immersion: complete involvement in some activity or interest

 

One does not necessarily beget the other.

[Berrod Armstrong]

The word 'escapism' has kind of a negative bend for me because it implies I indulge my hobby to escape something in my life. I RP because I enjoy it. Not because I need to escape some aspect of my life. I would still do it even if every aspect of my life was perfectly satisfying.

 

In fact I'm immediatly wary of overtly depressed RPers who explicitly seek escapism, as they are most likely to manifest bleed in a negative way. While a wheelchair bound RPer escaping reality isn't inherently bad, it certainly is if that is the sole reason for the roleplay or the individual never moves on from the escapism.

 

Indulging in an imaginative situation you can't take part of IRL is not automatically escapism. When I RP a mage it is not because I cannot cast spells IRL. It's the same for the well adjusted wheelchair bound roleplayer.

 

And... although I have no research to back this up I do feel that most RPers tend to RP for the "wrong" reasons, those reasons being disatisfaction with real life and low self esteem/self validation. It is why so many RPers are on the young side, and why so many more give up the hobby by the time they reach my age, and why bleed can be so devastating.

Escapism doesn't necessarily mean a departure from BAD THING IN LIFE -- it can simply be escape from boredom; which is the basis of entertainment. The term has been used too much to highlight those who try to get away from the less pleasant parts of life. The implication is based on a lack of that understanding.

[Caspar]

Why is escapism being thrown around like a bad word? Is someone roleplaying as a long-distance runner doing it wrong because they are in a wheelchair and always wanted to be a runner? What is wrong with fulfilling our dreams?

I think it's not so much that as the fact that not everyone is a skilled enough writer or cool-headed person to recognize when they've ceased to be objective about their own character. I think that a skilled writer can in fact write a character that resembles themselves and still make a captivating story. (Look at how often professional writers write novels about writers...) A player with a strong sense of objectivity can recognize the character is not them, and they don't need to react to things that happen to their character the same way their character does, or vice versa. The problem is that few of us are professionals, or 100% objective, and being too attached to the character because it resembles ourselves can sometimes lead to unpleasant rp. Like when a player gets offended and acts out against other players because their character basically is them, and other characters ICly insulted or disagreed with their character. Or when a player becomes somewhat as attached to their fictional romantic interest as their character does, and dislikes being asked to give them some time to rp with other characters.

 

So I think it's not so much wish fulfillment is inherently bad, just that it often is a sign of bad rp, because nobody is a flawless actor or writer, completely capable of shutting out all bleed in both directions. Most players would do well just to avoid it entirely for their own sake, or not play with people who blatantly indulge in it too much. I think it's natural to seek it out for most people, but to not indulge that instinct too deeply can have a positive effect on your writing ability in game, I feel.

[allgivenover]

The word 'escapism' has kind of a negative bend for me because it implies I indulge my hobby to escape something in my life. I RP because I enjoy it. Not because I need to escape some aspect of my life. I would still do it even if every aspect of my life was perfectly satisfying.

 

In fact I'm immediatly wary of overtly depressed RPers who explicitly seek escapism, as they are most likely to manifest bleed in a negative way. While a wheelchair bound RPer escaping reality isn't inherently bad, it certainly is if that is the sole reason for the roleplay or the individual never moves on from the escapism.

 

Indulging in an imaginative situation you can't take part of IRL is not automatically escapism. When I RP a mage it is not because I cannot cast spells IRL. It's the same for the well adjusted wheelchair bound roleplayer.

 

And... although I have no research to back this up I do feel that most RPers tend to RP for the "wrong" reasons, those reasons being disatisfaction with real life and low self esteem/self validation. It is why so many RPers are on the young side, and why so many more give up the hobby by the time they reach my age, and why bleed can be so devastating.

Escapism doesn't necessarily mean a departure from BAD THING IN LIFE -- it can simply be escape from boredom; which is the basis of entertainment. The term has been used too much to highlight those who try to get away from the less pleasant parts of life. The implication is based on a lack of that understanding.

 

While that may be your intended use of the word the actual definition is exactly as Warren posted.

[Berrod Armstrong]

Escapism is mental diversion by means of entertainment or recreation, as an "escape" from the perceived unpleasant or banal aspects of daily life. 

 

It can also be used as a term to define the actions people take to help relieve persisting feelings of depression or general sadness.

 

I actually agree with Warren's definition. Boredom is also an unpleasant reality. Escapism is not exclusively a means to run away from some overarching depression or hardship. My intended use of the word is based on what it actually means -- all of it, not a skewed perception of one aspect of it.

[Warren Castille]

(Look at how often professional writers write novels about writers...) A player with a strong sense of objectivity can recognize the character is not them, and they don't need to react to things that happen to their character the same way their character does, or vice versa. The problem is that few of us are professionals, or 100% objective, and being too attached to the character because it resembles ourselves can sometimes lead to unpleasant rp. Like when a player gets offended and acts out against other players because their character basically is them, and other characters ICly insulted or disagreed with their character. Or when a player becomes somewhat as attached to their fictional romantic interest as their character does, and dislikes being asked to give them some time to rp with other characters.

 

That captures the crux of it, though: A writer's plot isn't going to be steamrolled by an outside force doing something wrong to him. The writer might suddenly fall into a depression because of something in real life, but the fiction is completely in control of the writer. The trick with roleplay is that none of us are truly in control of our destinies here if we share our worlds with other people; It's cooperative, not single player. The writer will likely not be surprised by a sudden betrayal or break-up or loss of life or something happening in-world, but the same can't be said for those of us living in it.

 

For what it's worth, I do agree with Franz: Good characters require a spark of soul or life to be real enough to me, and while the best writers can inflate a flat character without using something like that, I don't know how many of the folks in Eorzea can strive to that level. I've had my mood infect Warren and Warren's infect me, but I'm lucky enough to realize when that's happening most of the time.

 

There's nothing wrong with being invested. There's something dangerous, though, when it's the only thing you have to invest in.

[Caspar]

I agree. My life is pretty banal. I play to entertain myself, so in a sense even I'm guilty of escapism. I, however, try my best not to make my character resemble myself, so that I lack even the chance to blend, let alone the desire to. I think it is natural for people to indulge at least somewhat in escapism, and unrealistic to expect everyone to avoid it like the plague.

 

I mean, usually I want to tell the other player as little about myself as possible. I'd rather they not even recognize I exist and play with my character without worrying what I'd think. If there was something I was invested in, it's my desire to write certain scenes, and I almost always end up broadcasting those ideas to the people I play with. So there's still some tension between what I want and what the plot demands.

[Hihimi]

So the vibe I'm getting from this conversation is generally a negative one, and I'm going to bow the fuck out before I do something I regret.