ArmachiA

I'm not policing anything. You're policing me by telling me I have to accept a White Mage when I don't believe it's canonically appropriate. They can play a White Mage if they like, I do not have to engage with them if they do. This game doesn't revolve around me, there are plenty of Roleplayers who will accept a White Mage, and there are PLENTY who won't either. And yes they have but they said they would explain later, so until they do it's not even something in my eyes yet. When the devs come in and explain how to be a White Mage, I will be open to White Mages if they follow what the devs have laid out. It's not hard.

I don't argue why you disregard it. I argue that you shouldn't use "lore" as a shield against those who don't disregard it. They are not breaking the lore, they are doing what the GM (the videogame) is telling them they can do. Use any other word, but not "lore" or "canon". That is unfair and makes people feel bad when they shouldn't. Common etiquette =/= What the game dictates/allows. Again, Lore =! Game mechanics. They've came out and said the Lightening Event wasn't Canon. There's no such thing as the Echo bonus in lore, etc etc. The devs are the Word of God. They write the lore, they tell us what to follow. It's that simple. Exactly, and they tell us that you can be any job you can unlock. To disregard what the NPCs and quests give us is, as you said, a decision you (the community) made, and not something the Devs imposed. As I've said before, the game also says we are not from Eorzea and that we should be new to all its customs (that's why NPCs always explain everything and act like we don't know anything beforehand when talking of any aspect of Eorzea). The moment you decide to not respect even this one line, you are breaking the lore. AND THAT'S FINE AND LEGIT. Because maybe you want to RP something else. So can we please stop telling others they are breaking the lore and we aren't? Cause that is a lie. You can look at it from any direction you want, but it is how it is. We cannot dictate that someone cannot be X job, because the game allows that. Simply walk away and move on if it bothers you that much, but don't go telling that person what they are doing is wrong. They are not. I'm probably breaking the lore more by RPing an icemancer (Jet'a is a black mage that only uses ice spells, though more elaborated, to compensate), than they are by RPing a White Mage. Seriously, not to brag or promote, but our RP group has multiple people of certain jobs, and we have also RPd job quests, and all of the participants manage to be happy at each other and what each of us decided to do with our jobs. There is never arguments of this sort. I really wish this harmony could be expanded and reach out to the "open world", but it's sad how impossible this seems to be because IT'S SO IMPORTANT THAT PEOPLE DON'T DO WHAT I DON'T ALLOW MY OWN CHARACTER TO DO... We disregard it because those quest are only for the Warrior of Light, and we're not the Warrior of Light. And even if you were, the Devs outright stat that the job quest was done by ONE person. They said it at fanfest. So your WoL was a WHM, but in another universe someone elses was a DRG. They've SAID this. You keep conflating Game mechanics with world lore. From the WoL POV we can do pretty much anything. But we're just ordinary people. We aren't PLAYING a WoL ( to which the devs also stated, there is only one of). We're actually playing it EXACTLY the way the devs want us too, that there's only one WoL somewhere out there. The devs said it was your character specifically or it was derplander if you choose to disregard it.

Yes. Paladins easily become paladins because of the lore by just... talking to the Sultansworn. They accept ANYONE who wants to be one, calling them "Free Paladins." Paladin is actually the EASIEST job lore-wise to say you are, hence why you see so many. Dragoons go through trials in Ishguard to become one and anyone can undertake the trials, however only ONE person can be the "Azure Dragoon" who holds the eye of Nidhogg (Which I don't believe any roleplayer has ever claimed to be honestly).

There are no other quests except the main quest that allows people to become White Mages and due to the nature of the class (where the Elementals have banned people from being WHMs) a lot of people believe you can't play one, and that quest is for the WoL only, which the devs have said. I don't understand what you mean.

I don't argue why you disregard it. I argue that you shouldn't use "lore" as a shield against those who don't disregard it. They are not breaking the lore, they are doing what the GM (the videogame) is telling them they can do. Use any other word, but not "lore" or "canon". That is unfair and makes people feel bad when they shouldn't. Common etiquette =/= What the game dictates/allows. Again, Lore =! Game mechanics. They've came out and said the Lightening Event wasn't Canon. There's no such thing as the Echo bonus in lore, etc etc. The devs are the Word of God. They write the lore, they tell us what to follow. It's that simple.

The Devs. The Devs said it. White Mage Lore is the only class that is barred by a separate race of demi-gods who can decide whether or not someone becomes one or not. And they've decided no one gets to be one except the protectors of the shroud, the Padjal. The ELEMENTALS have banned people from being White Mages, period. And the Devs have stated only the WoL ever becomes one.

Which Ferne has stated, categorically, is that only one person became a White Mage through the WHM job quest. yup. Lore =! Game mechanics. Those are two very different things

We disregard it because we aren't playing the outside of Eorzea, Echo having, Blessing of Hydaelyn, Warrior of Light Chosen one. We're playing other people in the world. The side characters. Not every single Eorzean is from outside of Eorzea and THAT's who we're deciding to play - the rest of the population. That's completely lore appropriate, I have no idea what your getting at here?

I'd like to extend the Night Blades to be put in the rotation for training areas :3

Honestly? Just read this thread for both sides of the issue (It does get heated at the end but this is the rpc so ) http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=10545

Which is done 95% of the time, except in the case of White Mage specifically. Because there are many many people who believe the lore does. not. budge on it and they are perfectly within their right to believe that. You're telling people who are open to a Miqote Dragoon or a Black Mage (Which is VERY difficult in lore to pull off) because of those grey areas, that they also have to be open to White Mage when they believe the lore very explicitly says that PC's cannot be one. There is no grey area. White Mage lore is the EXCEPTION, it isn't the rule and White Mage players need to recognize it's a VERY polarizing issue (As we have seen).

Isn't, "I'm gonna do what I want and you do what you want and we won't bug each other" meeting in the middle? Seems like a fair compromise to me. Cuz I hate to tell you "Players should be able to play White Mages" isn't a middle ground. It's the opposite of my belief that they shouldn't.

I keep seeing this argument be made and it's pretty much.. not how Lore people think. There are some parts of lore that we believe are 100% confirmed (That some people obviously don't believe - I.E WHite mage) but most of the time you can't follow lore 100%. It's impossible, there's not enough lore. Basically what we do is Inductive logic to see if SOMETHING would be possible. [video=youtube] By using other pieces of evidence in lore, people decide on their own if the gray areas would be possible. Using the Miqote Dragoon thing: Using inductive logic - Miqote came over to Eorzea awhile ago, before Ishguard closed their doors. Some will make the logical leap that Miqote dragoon can happen because of that - which there is evidence to support. And some may decide it's not a thing. MOST Lore people are like that, I've actually never met someone who thought lore compliance meant "Sticking with the lore 100%" because it's not logically sound.

The only time anything is forced into anything is saying "You need to rp the way I want and with me for reasons." Disagreement isn't forcing anything, however trying to get you to play in the same sandbox as me is forcing the issue. We can all walk away stating our opinions, rping with who we want to rp with - who agree with our point of view - without stating the community needs to act a certain way even if we disagree on the way the how the community "should" act. There's plenty of room for ALL kinds of rpers here, just because we don't agree, doesn't mean we can't rp peacefully

Please tell me how I, someone who believes 100% that PCs cannot be White Mages, and you, someone who 100% believes it doesn't matter can come together and come to an agreement beyond going to our respective corners and leaving each other to rp in peace. I'm not going to force you to see my view on it - which is, in lore says only Padjal can be WHMs, are you going to force me to see yours - which is game mechanics means we should be able to play whatever we like?

Because my particular interpretation of the lore doesn't make room for the idea that PCs can be white mages (though I haven't actually encountered white mages in-character yet, nor would Kale really know what they are). I'm not going to start shit over it, so likewise, I shouldn't expect to have a different interpretation of the lore forced on me where PCs -are- allowed to be white mages. Bingo.

IC (oh God not OOC) news: Last night, after a big battle at the end of a story arc, we lost our leader Ellion Goto, who's spirit and determination created the Night Blades two years ago. Ellion Goto was a character played since 2010 - though way back then he was a Highlander (No Manqote back then!) and the character's death, here now in 2015, hits a sad note for many of us in the FC. His death will affect many, many storylines in the future, and it is sad to see such a great, well-thought out character come to the end of his journey. Ellion's name came from the Roegadyn words for "Exiled Gatherer" - which was actually "Elilon" but he found it hard to pronounce. The nickname Ellion stuck however and proved to be quite apt - a man who gathered those outside the fringes of society together as a family. Because of this event, I'm unsure if recruitment will open up at the scheduled time (Due to story things) Our Leader. Our Friend. Goodbye, Goto. We will miss you.

Generally what I do really depends on the situation as a whole - 1. If the person is not in my FC. I don't expect anyone not in my FC (Or roleplaying closely with my FC) to follow our rules about lore. So if I see someone out and about and I'm talking to them IC and they call themselves the DREADED White Mage or whatever Armi will make a comment (Since she's from Gridania) of disbelief and the scene will continue. That's it. Once the scene is over and if the person isn't lore compliant I just won't try to rp with the person that closely again, though if I see them in a public setting I'll acknowledge their presence ICly. 2. A person is in my FC If it's blatant lore breaking (And not just a different interpretation of lore which happens WAY more often than you think it would) the officers will pull them aside and tell them to change a certain thing, then work with them to make sure the character isn't destroyed in the process. We have to do this, since all players sign a lore compliance agreement when they get in, it actually isn't fair to let lore breaking sit on ANYONE. I'm even subjected to scrutiny. I don't think all IC arguments about what is and what isn't are Passive Aggressive IC/OOC snipping but I have seen plenty of RPers get upset OOC and use IC anger as a way to channel it (Then pretend they aren't upset OOC and so above it all T_T). A lot of the time though, it can be just... the character disagreeing. My character would certainly not believe someone is something, its okay if she expresses that disbelief. Yes, I may not believe it's lore complaint but it doesn't mean my character can't have that disbelief because of my stance. It's perfectly within the realm of her character. The best advice is never act like an ass. You can be respectful about your disagreements. This is a large server and not everyone is going to mesh, but it makes NO SENSE to burn OOC bridges over different RP styles. Don't forget to be awesome.

Thanks guys! I'm not doing anything overly complicated, I'm using Bancroft's template (With Ilwe'ran's relationship system since I liked his more complex one). Eventually I'd like to flip over to Ilwe'ran's template permanently (So pretty ) but I'm a Wikinoob so that's definitely later. Funnily enough. the new relationship symbols went in just fine, but the Gallery section doesn't snap back to the middle, it just hangs over to the right under the Relationship section... and I did nothing to it. I'm still working on it though . Hopefully I'll have it up by the end of the week.

We have a Night Blades deck. It is brutal. I can't even list any examples here, it's that bad.

Which is us! To clear up future confusion, we have the same tag and name as the Grindstone but we aren't the same group. Spawned from the same group in FFXI (Which, in turn, was spawned from my LS the Crimson Pirates), but the FFXI LS founder Ellion quit after a few years (In which the NB and Crimson Pirates merged then moved to WoW) while the FFXI NB remained. We're the NB/CP FC, they are the FFXI FC. Okay? OKAY! Zax is a pretty fresh transfer from Gilgamesh and wanted to try Gilga style fighting match here. I'm probably going to get with him about running these in conjunction with the FC Training Parade (Like have it a day or two after each one so people can use what they've learned) since it allows for both weapons and magic. At this point I'm not sure if my character came come yet, she uh.. may not be fit, but we'll see!

There were some really good ideas for cross FC stuff that wasn't too overwhelming or hasty more "Lets set up a crafting LS for airships" "Do training sessions in different houses" and less "LET'S DO A WHOLE SERVER PLOT" I think we really went about it the right way.

This is such a good idea that came out of the FC summit. I'm excited.

I'm actually working on one... and now I remember why I never did one T_T I put the coding in exactly from another persons page and it's freaking out. But it's an exact copy! So I'm working around it. I hate coding.

I just went and read through these. A lot of people gave some good advice in each of those threads... but it seems OP posts something like this then never comes back to work with the community on it. It's a shame he refuses to work with people, it's going to make him miss so many opportunities.