Spiritual Machine

There are a lot of reasons to disagree with or dislike an idea in roleplay, but I'm always disheartened when I see people whip out the ol' "it doesn't exist in lore so no" chestnut. Between flavor text on Leves, stuff mentioned offhand by NPCs, and things pretty carelessly revealed or elaborated upon by Sightseeing Logs, Postmoogle Quests, etc., it's a safe bet that there's a lot we don't know about FFXIV's lore that could justify a whole host of stuff. Really, when it comes to making a concession about what could exist in FFXIV, the question should never simply be whether it could. Because the answer is, of course it could. The right question to ask is why it should. Is the story you're going to tell using this contrivance going to be compelling and inclusive? Is it going to incorporate what exists in the universe already in an interesting and thought-provoking way? Is it going to inspire and entertain people? Then it will probably gain a wide acceptance in the community. On the other hand, are you trying to shoehorn something from another universe entirely into this one? Just something you like or are a fan of? Is it something without precedent, extrapolated from nothing in particular in the game world, just because this is a convenient venue for you (and your friends) to do so in? Well then, more power to you! But don't be surprised if not a lot of people are interested in acknowledging you in-character. Most folks like their roleplay to be consistent with the world that most of the game is occupied with, so that there is no sense of cognitive dissonance or loss of immersion. That's why you'll find a lot of people shooting down topics like this, even when they might otherwise be optimistic about playing around with what could be possible.

Glamours are described as illusions, but I don't believe they're ever specifically noted as purely visual (correct me if I'm wrong). If that's all it was, one can imagine that all it would take is an errant touch to reveal the truth of things. At the same time though, the wearer of the Glamour may or may not have actually physically changed at all. It's never noted that they themselves have changed form, or that it's something they have to adjust to (though the sources from which we can draw that information are limited). As such, I always accepted a Glamour as a distortion of perception in general, rather than a transformation or a mundane trick. Imagine taking some kind of drug that made you believe you were giant, and everyone else was small. Nothing would have to have changed but your own perception, but as you see, touch and move around regular-sized people, you would be swearing up and down that they were pitiful munchkins, and that you were their towering king. And why couldn't magic just do something like that? Of course the thing that makes this magic so potent is probably what makes it so rare and so fragile. It takes a lot of effort to convince someone that their senses are false, and not all senses are created equal. A Sylph may not know how to compensate their illusion to account for a Elezan's hearing, or a Miqo'te's sense of smell, or even the spatial awareness of an Au Ra who may be better at "sensing" the true size and shape of things. Just an alternative notion of how a Glamour might work.

Whether it's important to me or not is irrelevant. The fact is, people are engaging in some incredibly silly and implausible explanations for playing races that do not yet exist in-game because they don't have the patience. And I find that... well, silly, of course. Honestly, this whole topic probably deserves a thread of its own. I will personally avoid RPing anything that I can't at least reasonably represent in-game for a myriad of reasons, not the least of which is the fact that I would be MUCH better served trying to do so in chat rooms or forums rather than in the game itself. It doesn't matter that I REALLY love samurais and katanas or whatever, I just won't do it until they're in the game proper. No hypocrisy here, nopenopenope. But of course, I have zero control over what other folks want to RP. If that's what rocks your boat, then by all means, have at it! I just won't approve, and how much does that matter to you, really? I foresee this very thing becoming an issue in the future for any new races as well. I'd rather it be nipped in the bud now before it becomes a recurring feature of the game's RP, but of course, that's not going to happen. People will do as they wish, continuity be damned. Easiest thing would have just been to introduce Au Ra NPCs a bit more in advance. I doubt SE care what any of you folks think with regard to roleplay acceptance, but it would have at least been more interesting from the perspective of world-building. It's fair to have expected better of them in that regard. Then again, maybe there will be a Postmoogle quest that explains everything! People will just have to accept, though, that we aren't going to know everything about the world, and we should be ready to adapt to changes added into the game with either the surprise or knowing acceptance of our characters (whichever is appropriate). Like, how many people would have been a member of the Rogue's guild if they knew it was a thing before 2.4? If your character has to know everything about unknown lands, and even everything about who or what can exist in Eorzea at present, then you're going to be doing a lot of backtracking and retconning. Welcome to MMOs. And no, the Quicksand is not the center of the universe, no matter how many people contribute gravity to it. On topic, it's the avoidance of addressing these unrealistic expectations that has sparked all these weighty discussions about the impact of things like Glamours and Fantasias. Otherwise I imagine they might be more relegated to the occasional stray plot device where they belong.

One of the biggest differences between Eorzea and the real world is that Eorzeans are not living in a digital age, where news and information from across the realm are readily available to all. There is plenty about each region of Eorzea that we don't know--and can't know--because our characters don't possess the shared and stored knowledge of every person who lives in every corner of it. Even in a big city, a few rumors here and there will only scratch the surface of everything there would be to know and see if the citizens had iPhones. What I'm saying is, from your perspective the Au Ra just "appeared". From your perspective Rogues just "appeared" as well. I heard a rumor that a Mammol Ja regularly visits a butcher's stall in West Hawker's Alley to buy enough raw blood sausage to feed a small army. I also heard the Mammol Ja tribes have been becoming increasingly interested in the Arcanist's Guild for reasons unknown. And hey, I heard they hired some dancers at the Gold Saucer who have horns instead of ears and hail from the Far East. Can you believe that?

I'm just going to play it like most of the disguised Au Ra were just really paranoid. Unless some actual, canonical reason is given why there are suddenly Au Ra when there previously weren't, it's safest to assume they were just a rarity, like Duskwights and male Miqo'te, rather than formulate some kind of headcanon to explain ALL Au Ra. As for Glamours in general, I'm not sure how our understanding of them managed to get so complicated. They seem to consistently be full-body illusions that don't stand up to extended use. If they were only visual, they would be a lot easier to break, and if they were more reliable, they'd be used more conventionally and would be seen to break less.

I wasn't really suggesting Glamours were easy. More that they aren't unusual or unheard of. Like a pair of toy night-vision goggles, the technique was probably amazing when first discovered and continues to work as expected, but it doesn't work well unless a lot is put into them, it still takes time and skill and maintenance to keep it working well, and ultimately when it isn't being used for something specific and important, it's regarded as a toy.

The magic of illusion is probably world renowned but costly and limited for most. Ul'dahns and the patrons of the Gold Saucer have had to deal with glamoured demons, for example, and there's no reason to believe based on the quest to unlock Glamours that it's all that rare or difficult--just that no one thought to use it in that fashion before. As for Yugiri, it may have been that an illusion would have been costly or wasteful for a refugee. It may have been impractical too, given how much action she sees and how much time she spends in public (Glamours have been notoriously unreliable in the story). Personally, given the fact that Au Ra are neither restricted in their presence in Eorzea (the patch notes say that they will be Gold Saucer dancers in a few days), nor is the Warrior of Light restricted from having been one this whole time, I strongly believe that Yugiri was never hiding her face because of her race alone. Rather, between being a political target and the representative of the predominantly Hyuran Doman people, you could imagine that the rarity of her race might set her apart and draw attention or empathy away from the Domans. Yugiri probably did not want to distract the Eorzeans from her people's plight. It was already bad enough that they were Easterners. I mean, if you doubt how racist and xenophobic common Eorzeans can be, you may want to check out an Eorzean timeline. Or those old in-world news report posts they did in 1.0.

5. Retcon. He was an Au Ra the whole time but no one ever made a big deal about it because it isn't a big deal.

Except in FFXIV, both dragons and demons have regular ears. I think any relation of the Au Ra race to a contemporary beast species will be about as well explored and ultimately meaningful as the question of whether Miqo'te are related to cats.

No, they never said that. People need to stop saying that. First people really wanted them to be related to dragons, then SE said their motif was demonic and now people really want them to be demons. Some SE staff even mentioned that the motif for the scales was meant to be reptilian. What's next, people are going to start saying they're related to crocs?

You know...I never thought of that. As far as I know Au Ra are the one thing accessible from the get go however we don't know where they came from or how they fit into the story if at all. Even if they make a reason for their appearance it does mean that the warrior of light would have needed to be an Au Ra from the beginning. Though as I say this, there is a little nagging voice in the back of my mind saying we should just pray they decided to ignore this and allow us to at least be the race we want from the get go since the alternative is they lock that behind MSQ too. The Warrior of Light is a foreigner. See, considering that as soon as we found out what race Yugiri was, we also knew that it would be a playable race from the start of the MSQ, I figured that it was never really a matter of Au Ra needing to hide themselves in Eorzea. "Lady Yugiri, forgive me for observing, but... your choice of attire seems like to evoke feelings of mistrust." "Men are wont to fear the unfamiliar. We know this from experience. We seek only to spare the people of Ul'dah unnecessary disquiet." "We." It's pretty clear that she thought a bunch of foreign refugees in Ul'dah would cause enough of a stir as it was without their leader being revealed to be of some rarely seen, horned weirdo race. At best it would draw attention away from her people's plight, and at worst it would be even harder for Eorzeans to relate to and therefore sympathize with the Domans. And wasn't she always thinking about the Domans over herself?

I can do that, but there's so many and I don't know if the lady has a man or not. In short I'm kinda afraid lol So what you're saying is that you wouldn't want to put all that time into roleplaying with someone for nothing, right?

That's more a typical Western trope though, is it not? Like with Captain Planet and My Little Pony. Off topic, it's a big Japanese RPG trope, right up there with killing your gods. Do you even Final Fantasy brah? Actually there are a lot more examples of that trope being played straight from Anime/Manga than Western shows on the TV Tropes page for it. Especially when it comes to those Magical Girl ones--they never quite have the power to shoot the biggest lasers without charging up the ol' Inner Monologue o' Friendship. Captain Planet was way more realistic actually. To defeat pollution, you put together five magical rings, and by their powers combined you summon someone else to deal with it. On topic, I tend to make characters who have limited or typical abilities but the intellect to use them in creative ways. A lot of crazy stuff can be deduced out of the lore for what people are basically capable of if they try. Now that can be more of a challenge than leaning on a more nebulous source of power or experience, but that's part of the fun. Oh, I thought you meant friendship being an actual power, like "pew pew, I wield the power of Friendship!", and not the actual moral boost friendship can give you in a realistic way. Are you saying the Heart of the Cards isn't an actual power, you fiend?

That's more a typical Western trope though, is it not? Like with Captain Planet and My Little Pony. Off topic, it's a big Japanese RPG trope, right up there with killing your gods. Do you even Final Fantasy brah? Actually there are a lot more examples of that trope being played straight from Anime/Manga than Western shows on the TV Tropes page for it. Especially when it comes to those Magical Girl ones--they never quite have the power to shoot the biggest lasers without charging up the ol' Inner Monologue o' Friendship. Captain Planet was way more realistic actually. To defeat pollution, you put together five magical rings, and by their powers combined you summon someone else to deal with it. On topic, I tend to make characters who have limited or typical abilities but the intellect to use them in creative ways. A lot of crazy stuff can be deduced out of the lore for what people are basically capable of if they try. Now that can be more of a challenge than leaning on a more nebulous source of power or experience, but that's part of the fun.

What, no one here gets their powers from friendship? I thought this was a Japanese RPG.

I must have missed the part of the Adventurer's job description where they're supposed to be bringing down corrupt clergy and noblemen, all the while not getting paid to do that. Yeah I'm thinking Dark Knights are a pretty unique concept in this game's lore actually.

People will stop making them when people stop posting in them.

I would have been interested in seeing the original concept art toned down in terms of proportions--seriously, those FemRa must be suffering ungodly amounts of back pain--and used as the model for the Xaela, at least. The only other race that has such a distinct difference in silhouettes in terms of proportion are the Hyur with Highlanders and Midlanders. Having the Xaela retain more of their bestial features--heavily scaled arms, claws, longer horns, etc--would have served as a much more interesting differentiation from the sedentary Raen as opposed to splashing a different colour palette on them and calling it a day. And, like you said, it would tie more into their warlike nature. I suppose such duality in physical aspects doesn't make sense if they're supposed to be the same species, but still. That's some lost potential, there. I think it's funny that it's still the Au Ra females that are getting all the attention in this discussion. I mean, I see a lot of dramatic language in this thread, but I feel like a truly even-handed assessment of the race is that they're Miqo'te. Minus cat. Plus demon. And personally I think that's the only reasonable complaint with all the petite young Midlanders and Seekers running around. They're just less unique than they could have been. AND THE SAME GOES FOR MALES. Come on folks, don't act like Lolita-chan's the only problem here while ignoring the angry-looking, triangular, slightly more well-proportioned horned Elezan in the room! There was a lot of potential for both genders of Au Ra to look way cooler than they turned out. Whether due to character data limitations or an old fashioned lack of gumption, we're just going to have to do our best to make the Au Ra we got look unique among the existing races. I'm with Nero that a perfect world would see more physiological differences between Raen and Xaela that would satisfy everyone's itch. But I say a perfect world would take it a step farther and give us some even more hardcore-looking Xaela males as well!

If they had gone with the original Au Ra designs, people would have complained about how hyper-sexualized the female bodies were, or how under-muscled or less savage they were compared to the males.

We've discussed this before. Genital size is NOT proportional to body size. Remember the gorilla 2-inch penis... I'm not even talking about genital size. D: Just the body mass, man. That gorilla thing makes me chuckle every time... I still don't see how this would be an issue. He should not be laying on top of her or otherwise bearing his weight down on her regardless. How do you think two humans of large weight discrepancies get it on IRL? From a distance, obviously. Since their gizmos would be long enough for that, right?

If I'm not mistaken, it's more that humans have a greater chance of variance in size instead of it being directly correlated to size? Might be. What most people overlook is that it works both ways. I mean, when we're talking "genitals", are we just thinking of the male ones? Source: My 5'0 cousin and her nearly 7'0 husband had a kid about a year ago.

I feel like people who find the difference to be personally jarring are perfectly justified in thinking so. It's a pretty alien concept, after all. But those people who comment on the logistics of intercourse between the two genders get me. I mean, isn't it a bit gauche to go around telling people how little you know about how sex actually works?

Why ya'll gotta be short shaming, eh? I'm not against short people. They make great arm-rests. You're not the only one. Though it seems this is what the masses want - creepily short females paired with much bigger guys who look like they'll snap their women in two. :roll: Not that there's anything wrong with that, it just isn't to my personal tastes. Yeah, I'm here. I think it just is a little strange. I guess being as tall as the average 14 year old in someone's country is pedophilia now. Better update all the RP police rules quick. Nono, its not about pedophilia. its just a little surprising. The Devs said there were going to be options to make them look more ... scary? i forget the exact quote. But I assumed, or thought it'd be from 4'9ish to 5'5 at least. Miqo'te females get between 4'11 and 5'4, rounding up. Can't be scary if you're small, right?

And I think this is okay. Some may see it as cliche, others may see it as creative, and some just won't care. People can decorate their sandbox as they please, so to speak. We can choose not to play in it. I know, but their lore is so rich! It is like someone is stabbing me in the stomach every time I hear those sort of lines. Everyone kinda just, makes up a sob story and rolls with it. Like whoa, why is everyone in Eorzea so unfortunate? Why does the player need to be the -last- superspecialsoleremainingpersonleftoftheirtribewhoshehatedbecauseitwasabusiveandsoshewasadoptedbyhyur. Their lore is so rich? Where is it all then? Oh, here it is. Xaela: "Unlike their sister clan, the Raen, who lead solitary lives hidden behind the savage peaks of Othard's eastern reaches, the Xaela are free spirits who roam the vast western steppe in close-knit tribes hunting, gathering, and warring as their ancestors have for countless generations." Raen: "Unlike their sister clan, the Xaela, who bloody the land with their endless tribal conflict, the Raen have embraced a life of tranquility and solitude, long abandoning the nomadic lifestyle of their ancestors to settle the deep valleys of Othard's mountainous eastern reaches. Only on rare occasions will one emerge from the valley mists to seek adventure in realms afar." Emphasis mine. So do Raen have to come up with a believable story too? Because we really can't extrapolate any useful lore from Yugiri's situation--it's too unique (selfless defender, last of her people, lives with huyr, made leader of a group of refugees). What we do know is that Xaela sojourn in the western regions of Othard. If anything, that makes them a more common presence on most of the continent than their reclusive kin. That also makes them more likely to have encountered the Garlean march first. Remember that Doma in the far eastern mountains was one of the last city-states to be brought under Garlean rule.