Aysun Posted March 17, 2015 Share #151 Posted March 17, 2015 The method DOES matter, they were designing a race so they looked at what races people liked to play, this isn't rocket science So who made the decision to make a race that looked like races people wanted to play? Did the players make that one too or was it just inferred, and if it was, by whom I wonder? I think it's kind of an obvious business model that you give the customer what they want. When an overwhelming amount play x type of design, then they obviously like that design, therefore give them what they like. 1 Link to comment
111 Posted March 17, 2015 Share #152 Posted March 17, 2015 The method DOES matter, they were designing a race so they looked at what races people liked to play, this isn't rocket science So who made the decision to make a race that looked like races people wanted to play? Did the players make that one too or was it just inferred, and if it was, by whom I wonder? I believe you can actually pick your race when you make a character yes. There are like buttons and you can choose between them. Link to comment
Dogberry Posted March 17, 2015 Share #153 Posted March 17, 2015 I dunno, Bryn, I'm seein' plenty soft side under that spoiler cut... If you touch them, they feel like the finest slate rock from the majestic slopes of Gyr Abania. Dogberry can vouch for this, after that one night at the Bacchus Shots competition. Link to comment
Aya Posted March 17, 2015 Share #154 Posted March 17, 2015 Who knew SE wasn't responsible for their own game design decisions. I'd never have guessed before this thread! Edit: And I suppose that means all discussion of whether it was a good or bad decision is really, really silly, since it wasn't their decision at all. Link to comment
Flashhelix Posted March 17, 2015 Share #155 Posted March 17, 2015 Who knew SE wasn't responsible for their own game design decisions. I'd never have guessed before this thread! I'd never guess that it's SE's fault that everybody prefers catgirls over roes, but apparently this is some kinda They Live! situation goin on here Link to comment
Aya Posted March 17, 2015 Share #156 Posted March 17, 2015 I'd never guess that it's SE's fault that everybody prefers catgirls over roes, but apparently this is some kinda They Live! situation goin on here I am curious who you think suggested it was! Link to comment
Brynhilde Posted March 17, 2015 Share #157 Posted March 17, 2015 Can I quote Judith Butler yet? Link to comment
Verad Posted March 17, 2015 Share #158 Posted March 17, 2015 From a commercial perspective, it was a good decision. It will make them more money than less to pay more attention to the actual preferences of the playerbase (races and genders played) than to their stated preferences (polls heavily reliant on self-reporting indicating a desire for a more "beastly" race). From an aesthetic perspective, it could still be a good decision, because while it may not be reflective of verisimilitude, it is far from the sole or even the highest aesthetic goal in fiction, storytelling, and world-creation. Link to comment
Gegenji Posted March 17, 2015 Share #159 Posted March 17, 2015 Both sides of the argument have a bit of a fallacy, if I may pipe up for a moment. On one side is the "safe" choice. Using character data, SE can see what types of races and classes are being played. From that, they can seek to infer that this is what the players want to play. Since they already have evidence that people can and will frequently play these, making something similar ensures that many folks will try (and possible even enjoy) it. We see the same thing with games in general - how much deviation has there been in, like, Pokemon games? If it ain't broke, why fix it? However, there's also the "spaghetti sauce" argument, as I like to call it based on a video about... well, spaghetti sauce. People liked straight tomato because they did not know they could have other options. And when new types were made, people suddenly had new favorites because they didn't even know you could put this or that in tomato sauce! People may not know they want to play a fully bestial race until the option is made available, but it also could be something they can see and go "do not want." It's risky even if there's a chance for great reward, and very few companies like risky. The way I see it, if they see a bunch of people playing male Au Ra over the females, that would pass along similar data - people want to play more bestial than pretty. If there's more bestial options on the females, and a large percentage of folks use them along with an increased influx of femRoes and ladylanders, then there's precedence for players being for a stronger female archetype. Then it won't seem like such a risk, and more of a sure deal. It is still ultimately the company's choice, but it's a choice based off what they think will sell well. And so they look at trends and data and try to find out what would give them the best profit. And, currently, it seems like manly men and pretty ladies. I mean, think about it, how many fat people are in Eorzea? 2 Link to comment
Arelian Solin Posted March 17, 2015 Share #160 Posted March 17, 2015 SEXUAL DIMORPHISM! Okay, but real talk just to head off some of the witty rebuttals. I know that using humans is a poor example, but things like sexual dimorphism to an extreme degree does exist in the real world. Is it a shame that they can't give each race a dramatic height slider? Sure! But they need to keep the silhouette of each race unique and size is a big part of that. Link to comment
Verad Posted March 17, 2015 Share #161 Posted March 17, 2015 Both sides of the argument have a bit of a fallacy, if I may pipe up for a moment. On one side is the "safe" choice. Using character data, SE can see what types of races and classes are being played. From that, they can seek to infer that this is what the players want to play. Since they already have evidence that people can and will frequently play these, making something similar ensures that many folks will try (and possible even enjoy) it. We see the same thing with games in general - how much deviation has there been in, like, Pokemon games? If it ain't broke, why fix it? However, there's also the "spaghetti sauce" argument, as I like to call it based on a video about... well, spaghetti sauce. People liked straight tomato because they did not know they could have other options. And when new types were made, people suddenly had new favorites because they didn't even know you could put this or that in tomato sauce! People may not know they want to play a fully bestial race until the option is made available, but it also could be something they can see and go "do not want." It's risky even if there's a chance for great reward, and very few companies like risky. The way I see it, if they see a bunch of people playing male Au Ra over the females, that would pass along similar data - people want to play more bestial than pretty. If there's more bestial options on the females, and a large percentage of folks use them, then there's precedence for players being for a stronger female archetype. Then it won't seem like such a risk, and more of a sure deal. Ah, Gladwell. Of course, he recognizes that there is also the possibility of one choice being vastly preferred over any others with the ketchup analogy. Link to comment
Berrod Armstrong Posted March 17, 2015 Share #162 Posted March 17, 2015 Who knew SE wasn't responsible for their own game design decisions. I'd never have guessed before this thread! Edit: And I suppose that means all discussion of whether it was a good or bad decision is really, really silly, since it wasn't their decision at all. I think there's something off here. Let me see if I can set things straight. We, the players, generated data. SE took this data into consideration when making the decision. SE is responsible for the decision based on this data. SE is also responsible for keeping their business running, and the game in existence. We, the players, are responsible for the data that influenced the decision. It was their decision. Based on our data. It was a good decision for SE, because it was good for the business. It was a good decision for the players, because they got what they wanted -- according to the data! A minority/minorities did not get what they wanted -- in terms of the aesthetic. There are avenues for them to voice what they want, and perhaps come together to represent this want so that next time around, maybe they can get it! ...there's...nothing really wrong with any of this. The fact that they are actually open to giving the player base what they want instead of shutting up in a room and making the decision without even considering us is AMAZING. It means, that if YOU HAVE an idea for a race, and several other people share it with you, YOUR VOICES can be heard and influence the content of your product! Yes! They are responsible for the decision. It's an AWESOME decision because it means that as players we actually have power. Sure, we need to get together and represent, but if we REALLY WANT SOMETHING...we can do it, and GET it. 1 Link to comment
Brynhilde Posted March 17, 2015 Share #163 Posted March 17, 2015 Out of pure curiosity dont lynch me, did anyone upon seeing the fem Au Ra for the firs time go, "YES THAT'S ME I WILL PLAY THAT"? I have a few friends in my FC and elsewhere who are planning on going male Au Ra, but I haven't heard from anyone going female. Link to comment
Aya Posted March 17, 2015 Share #164 Posted March 17, 2015 Yes! They are responsible for the decision. Thank you for literally saying all that I was saying. I really do appreciate that! All credit and discredit for it goes to SE. We may disagree on our own judgement of the decision (that's personal opinions for you!) but I really didn't think that saying SE was responsible for a decision that they made could ever be so controversial. Link to comment
Flashhelix Posted March 17, 2015 Share #165 Posted March 17, 2015 Upon seeing the Au Ra my reaction was "meh" because fantasia is dumb and alting makes me wanna self-terminate Link to comment
Arelian Solin Posted March 17, 2015 Share #166 Posted March 17, 2015 Out of pure curiosity dont lynch me, did anyone upon seeing the fem Au Ra for the firs time go, "YES THAT'S ME I WILL PLAY THAT"? I have a few friends in my FC and elsewhere who are planning on going male Au Ra, but I haven't heard from anyone going female. I personally know a huge handful of women that are thrilled to have female Au Ra designed as they are and would absolutely have not played them if they were the large and bestial designs that other people want. Link to comment
cuideag Posted March 17, 2015 Share #167 Posted March 17, 2015 Out of pure curiosity dont lynch me, did anyone upon seeing the fem Au Ra for the firs time go, "YES THAT'S ME I WILL PLAY THAT"? I have a few friends in my FC and elsewhere who are planning on going male Au Ra, but I haven't heard from anyone going female. If I decide to race change or roll anything new at all, probs going straight to male Au Ra. As it stands I don't have a reason to abandon either of the two best races (lala and highlander) nor the will power to pick up another alt. Link to comment
Berrod Armstrong Posted March 17, 2015 Share #168 Posted March 17, 2015 Out of pure curiosity dont lynch me, did anyone upon seeing the fem Au Ra for the firs time go, "YES THAT'S ME I WILL PLAY THAT"? I have a few friends in my FC and elsewhere who are planning on going male Au Ra, but I haven't heard from anyone going female. A few of my friends are rushing toward the ladydarguns like there's no tomorrow. I'm considering having a female rah-rah in addition to my boy rah-rah as well, because I really love how they look. Them haunted eyes. That brittle, yet dangerous air about them. Eeeee Link to comment
Kage Posted March 17, 2015 Share #169 Posted March 17, 2015 Out of pure curiosity dont lynch me, did anyone upon seeing the fem Au Ra for the firs time go, "YES THAT'S ME I WILL PLAY THAT"? I have a few friends in my FC and elsewhere who are planning on going male Au Ra, but I haven't heard from anyone going female. If I decide to race change or roll anything new at all, probs going straight to male Au Ra. As it stands I don't have a reason to abandon either of the two best races (lala and highlander) nor the will power to pick up another alt. ^Pretty much this + femRoe. I love the male Au Ra aesthetic and thought that I might actually fantasia into it. .... but I realized I like Lalakage too much and I just can't alt. Link to comment
Aya Posted March 17, 2015 Share #170 Posted March 17, 2015 personally know a huge handful of women that are thrilled to have female Au Ra designed as they are and would absolutely have not played them if they were the large and bestial designs that other people want. The original thread is filled with this sort of testimonial. I wouldn't play Au Ra anyway, I don't think, but I certainly understand it. In that sense I'm part of the data set that SE used to reach the conclusion that the more feminine females are preferred. I would still preferred they not bend them that way, but what can you do? Link to comment
V'aleera Posted March 17, 2015 Share #171 Posted March 17, 2015 SE has said they took desires to look more beastial in consideration while making the female Au Ra. Maybe it will be enough to satisfy people who prefer that aesthetic over the dainty Hyur-with-horns we've already seen, maybe it won't. I am reserving judgment on that until the benchmark/character creation stuff is released. Link to comment
Flashhelix Posted March 17, 2015 Share #172 Posted March 17, 2015 Yes! They are responsible for the decision. Thank you for literally saying all that I was saying. I really do appreciate that! All credit and discredit for it goes to SE. We may disagree on our own judgement of the decision (that's personal opinions for you!) but I really didn't think that saying SE was responsible for a decision that they made could ever be so controversial. Does the discredit go to SE for basing a decision based off player preference? Because I don't think somebody could really blame them for going off the preferences of their playerbase unless one held the belief that SE shouldn't listen to the playerbase on things like this. Link to comment
Wymsical Posted March 17, 2015 Share #173 Posted March 17, 2015 Out of pure curiosity dont lynch me, did anyone upon seeing the fem Au Ra for the firs time go, "YES THAT'S ME I WILL PLAY THAT"? I have a few friends in my FC and elsewhere who are planning on going male Au Ra, but I haven't heard from anyone going female. 300% yes. I didn't even know they existed (taking a break from the game), two people I knew linked me the reveal about two seconds apart with 'THIS IS TOTALLY YOU'. And they were so right. That basically sealed me coming back (that and astrologian.) What can I say? I have a particular aesthetic that I really, really like. I was even more excited to hear about the 'demon' influences because that can lend a really interesting air to a character. Link to comment
Ette Posted March 17, 2015 Share #174 Posted March 17, 2015 Out of pure curiosity dont lynch me, did anyone upon seeing the fem Au Ra for the firs time go, "YES THAT'S ME I WILL PLAY THAT"? I have a few friends in my FC and elsewhere who are planning on going male Au Ra, but I haven't heard from anyone going female. Creepy vacant eyed chicks with promised diverse customization options are my aesthetic. She's going to ride on the shoulders of her giant husband and gore people with her flippin' sweet horns. I have a crap ton of preliminary sketches to compare to the CC when it comes out and a loose backstory written up that'll be changed varying on lore. So, yeah, 100% on board with that train. 4 Link to comment
Aya Posted March 17, 2015 Share #175 Posted March 17, 2015 Does the discredit go to SE for basing a decision based off player preference? Because I don't think somebody could really blame them for going off the preferences of their playerbase unless one held the belief that SE shouldn't listen to the playerbase on things like this. Honestly, Mister Helix, I feel like you have not read anything I've said in this entire thread. Link to comment
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