How has Ishgard been feeding itself?!

[QueenFrejyalen]

[align=center]http://www.finalfantasy.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/ff14-ishgard-city.jpg[/img][/align]

 

[align=center]Ahh, Ishgard.  What a fantastical city in the mountains, steeply positioned above mist and low-laying clouds.  [/align]

[align=center]You boast of your ability to sustain yourselves without mingling with the other city-states of Eorzea, [/align]

[align=center]you are clearly a cut above the rest of us (literally).[/align]

 

[align=center]BUT WHERE DO YOU GROW YOUR FOOD?  OR ANY OF YOUR MATERIALS FOR CLOTHING?  WHERE DOES THE BUILDING MATERIAL FOR YOUR CITY COME FROM?[/align]

 

[align=center]Maybe this was covered in the lore, perhaps I'm missing some vital information - but seriously, how can Ishgard possibly sustain itself with this kind of surrounding environment?  Do they own more land than is being shown to us from afar?  How far do the city limits extend exactly?  I know this is a fantasy setting but I really want to know how they feed and clothe their massive dragon-slaying army......[/align]

[Hyakki]

Some quests and levequests state that they import what they need or hire adventurers to obtain it for them.

[QueenFrejyalen]

Some quests and levequests state that they import what they need or hire adventurers to obtain it for them.

 

Ahh okay.  So if they import...then who do they import from??  I thought that in the MSQ they were very specific about not giving or receiving aid in regards to other city-states or parts of Eorzea.  Or did I misunderstand that part?  @.@

[111]

Well Gathering nodes replenish as soon as you've gotten 3/4 of a group. So they probably just have a few botany/mining points in the city.

 

Oh and sky fishing.

[QueenFrejyalen]

Well Gathering nodes replenish as soon as you've gotten 3/4 of a group. So they probably just have a few botany/mining points in the city.

 

Oh and sky fishing.

 

:lol:

[Maril]

The Ixali beast tribe daily quest would suggest that some specific people may yet win the gi- I mean, favor, of them to do some trading. Though I am also thinking, if they have been attacking/defending themselves from dragons on fronts further away from Eorzea than ishgard, they might have opportunities in areas they managed to secure from the dragons. 

 

Also. Maybe they started eating dragons? Meat would probably be a bit tough but might taste like chicken? Maybe that's like a hidden side to all of the dragoons. They don't just hunt dragons.. They /hunt/ dragons. And their jumping/poledancing aids in butchering as much as it aids in -butchering-. Maybe their regional specialty is a dragon egg souffle?

[mongi291]

The Ixali beast tribe daily quest would suggest that some specific people may yet win the gi- I mean, favor, of them to do some trading. Though I am also thinking, if they have been attacking/defending themselves from dragons on fronts further away from Eorzea than ishgard, they might have opportunities in areas they managed to secure from the dragons. 

 

Also. Maybe they started eating dragons? Meat would probably be a bit tough but might taste like chicken? Maybe that's like a hidden side to all of the dragoons. They don't just hunt dragons.. They /hunt/ dragons. And their jumping/poledancing aids in butchering as much as it aids in -butchering-. Maybe their regional specialty is a dragon egg souffle?

*a Dragoon kills a dragon with Jump*

Grilled dragon skewers for everyone!

[Warren Castille]

Also worth considering is that five years ago, Coerthas wasn't a frosty winter wonderland. It's likely that their entire ecosystem is undergoing massive changes due to the nuclear-winteresque impact of Dalamud. Failing that, Coerthas is also more than just one zone, so it's possible that the bulk of their farming and herding happen elsewhere.

 

[mongi291]

Also worth considering is that five years ago, Coerthas wasn't a frosty winter wonderland. It's likely that their entire ecosystem is undergoing massive changes due to the nuclear-winteresque impact of Dalamud. Failing that, Coerthas is also more than just one zone, so it's possible that the bulk of their farming and herding happen elsewhere.

 

It wasn't? Damn. That means Ophelie's story is flawed. If there wasn't snow she could have easily went back to home and she would have never been abducted by the Ixali and Garuda. I guess it's RETCON TIME!

[Steel Wolf]

Well, the floating islands that flutter around Ishgard still appear to have some temperate climates somehow despite their altitude. Perhaps there's some agriculture going on there?

[allgivenover]

Some quests and levequests state that they import what they need or hire adventurers to obtain it for them.

 

Ahh okay.  So if they import...then who do they import from??  I thought that in the MSQ they were very specific about not giving or receiving aid in regards to other city-states or parts of Eorzea.  Or did I misunderstand that part?  @.@

 

They were talking about military aid, not trade. Commerce isn't really aid.

[Virella]

Trading is still very much a thing, and they still manage to grow some food. There is a tiny plot of land in the Observatorium were you can see them working onto their soil, so they are very much capable of adjusting. Don't forget, the Ishgards are hardened people, a bit of snow is not going to stop them!

 

As for clothing? Sheeps are a thing within Ishgard. They still mine as well, so weapons and armour are still being crafted.

They really still got their own economy going on. It is not as if they would be completely lost without outside help, however, Ishgardians are very good at acting they don't need any help of outsiders, yet continue to import goods from adventurers and co.

 

The snow simply didn't make things easier for them, but they are far from completely relying onto outside help, else they wouldn't be as cocky as they are.

 

Anyhow this thread has plenty of leves and can explain things better then I can currently (I just woke up, okay???)!

[Ashianna]

While it's certainly a far more selective crop, it is possible to garden in the winter. Living in the northern US, I'm no stranger to these types of gardens :lol: As others have said, there are still animals and fish around. I imagine they do alright for themselves, though from what I have read in the leves that I've done, some are more open to outside aid than others.

[Warren Castille]

Coerthas, to me, always looked particularly hardy, let's say. It's mountainous, but it was green and lush. It's possible the sorts of things they'd grow and raise there could have adapted. It's not as if, say, Cosa del Sol suddenly froze overnight. Maybe their wild life and agriculture shifted slightly instead of immensely.

[Aya]

One has to imagine that they barely get by - relying mostly on expensive imports and hunting.  Any stockpiled food ran out long ago.  Starvation is probably a serious problem on the lower levels. The effects of permanent winter honestly seem t be undersold :-X

[Sounsyy]

Also worth considering is that five years ago, Coerthas wasn't a frosty winter wonderland. It's likely that their entire ecosystem is undergoing massive changes due to the nuclear-winteresque impact of Dalamud. Failing that, Coerthas is also more than just one zone, so it's possible that the bulk of their farming and herding happen elsewhere.

 

 

Piggybacking off of Warren's post...

 

 

This was the 1.0 map of Coerthas, which was still an alpine region - cold, snowy winters and such - but wasn't yet completely frozen over pre-Calamity. As you can see, the region hasn't changed much in 2.0, and SE has pretty much confirmed that Heavensward will re-open up these other outside regions as new Coerthas zones.

 

 

Anyways, the Coerthas Lowlands to the south as well as the Miller's Glade region in the Fields of Glory to the East were actually farmlands in 1.0. Sheep/Karakul provided wool for clothing and textiles, as well as milk and meet. The lowlands were fed by the runoff waters of the White Maiden. There were also several hamlets in the surrounding areas, Falcon's Nest, which in 2.0 we learned was frozen over solid when the Snowcloak glacial shift came in from the west. Then Owl's Nest in the East, which in 2.0, access has been blocked off.

 

Here's also a few snippets of Fishing and food item description lore on how Ishgard might feed themselves and what:

 

Maiden Carp

Large schools of these dark silver fish can be found in the White Maiden and her tributaries. Their tendancy to gather in great numbers makes them quite easy to catch, and as such they have been a staple for those living in the Twelveswood since the time of the first settlers.

 

Leafy Seadragon

Though once found all across the five seas, seadragon numbers are now but a mere fraction of what they once were, due in part to Ishgardian culling parties.

 

Emporer Fish

This giant freshwater fish lives out its adulthood feeding in the Indigo Deep before returning all the way back up to the head of the White Maiden to spawn. Its eggs are considered a delicacy among Ishgardian nobility and the Ul'dahn elite, and this has led to severe overfishing of the species. Now it is believed that only a few hundred remain.

 

Dzemael Gratin

Passed down through generations by the Dzemael family, this dish consists of thinly sliced popotoes and eft tails baked in a creamy white sauce.

 

(Dzemael Gratin is a bit of a lore flub actually. Popotoes are from the New World, and the New World was only recently discovered 16 years ago by Merlwyb. So it's not possible for this dish to have been made with popotoes for "generations" likely another tuber or root vegetable substitute.)

 

Knight's Bread

A hard, leavened rye bread traditionally eaten by the knights of Ishgard.

 

Trapper's Quiche

Eggs, cheese, and chopped eft blended together and baked in a flaky crust. A favorite amongst Ishgardian nobles.

 

Crowned Pie

A galette-style pie decorated with a golden crown and served at Ishgardian festivals.

 

 

As for what Isghardian farms and gardens might be growing:

 

Coerthan Carrot

A long orange root vegetable commonly grown in the rocky alpine soil of the Coerthas region.

 

Dzemael Tomato

A rare crossbreed of ruby tomato developed and perfected by House Dzemael botanists.

 

Alpine Parsnip

A long white root vegetable indigenous to the mountainous region of Coerthas.

 

Faerie Apple

A tart variety of apple commonly found growing in the cool mountain passes of Coerthas.

 

Mirror Apple

A sweet yet sour variety of apples native to Coerthas. When polished, the skins become so shiny it is said one can see their own reflection in them.

 

Pixie Plums

A tart fruit commonly grown in mountain orchards in the Coerthas region.

 

Rye

A dark variety of rye grass commonly found growing in the higher elevations of Mor Dhona and Coerthas.

 

 

Hope this helps! ^^

 

 

EDIT: Also interesting fact, since I saw mention of sky fishing in here, none of the Sky Fish have lore stating that they are eaten. In fact, some of the larger sky fish are actually (mistakenly) thought to be Dravanian beasts.

[Sylastair]

One has to imagine that they barely get by - relying mostly on expensive imports and hunting.  Any stockpiled food ran out long ago.  Starvation is probably a serious problem on the lower levels.  The effects of permanent winter honestly seem t be undersold :-X

This. I have always imagined Ishgard in a serious state of famine and disrepair. That coupled with their ever increasing religious fanaticism and isolationist mentality makes me see it as the FFXIV version of North Korea.

[Flickering Ember]

Aren't there non snowy regions of Coerthas as of Heavens ward? Perhaps they get their food from there or perhaps they depend on dravanian territories won in the war? They were already a mountainous region to begin with and probably know how to survive in cold winters. However, with permanent winter, I imagine their population must be hurting but they are too proud to admit it.

[Aya]

Aren't there non snowy regions of Coerthas as of Heavens ward? Perhaps they get their food from there or perhaps they depend on dravanian territories won in the war? They were already a mountainous region to begin with and probably know how to survive in cold winters. However, with permanent winter, I imagine their population must be hurting but they are too proud to admit it.

Well... the rulers are definitely not starving. Would they be too proud to admit that their lower classes are starving?  They probably don't much care :-X

[Dravus]

Ishgardians? They're secretly cannibals!

[Khadan]

EDIT: Also interesting fact, since I saw mention of sky fishing in here, none of the Sky Fish have lore stating that they are eaten. In fact, some of the larger sky fish are actually (mistakenly) thought to be Dravanian beasts.

 

Have a fishing quest dialogue =)

 

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/I_Believe_Fish_Can_Fly

 

Firminnant:

Greetings, traveler. Visitors from Limsa Lominsa are rare to these rare climes. I am told you seek to fish the magnificentcloud cutters that grace the Sea of Clouds. As squires, we practice catching our dinner, but the task is trying for even the most experienced among us. How one unaccustomed to the chore might hope to succeed where so many accomplished fishermen have failed is beyond me. But mine is not to stand in the way of foolhardy endeavors. The fish float upon inflating pockets of vapor, allowing them to ride currents of air. They are thus able to escape predators and take refuge in the clouds. Moreover, an aerial fish requires an aerial worm, in this case hoverworms. Such is the extent of knowledge that I can confer unto you. I fear the remainder is a matter of experience and skill. I should wish you good luck--you will surely need it.

 

Apparently them skyfish are edible and consumed not all that rarely =P

[Sounsyy]

EDIT: Also interesting fact, since I saw mention of sky fishing in here, none of the Sky Fish have lore stating that they are eaten. In fact, some of the larger sky fish are actually (mistakenly) thought to be Dravanian beasts.

 

Have a fishing quest dialogue =)

 

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/I_Believe_Fish_Can_Fly

 

Firminnant:

Greetings, traveler. Visitors from Limsa Lominsa are rare to these rare climes. I am told you seek to fish the magnificentcloud cutters that grace the Sea of Clouds. As squires, we practice catching our dinner, but the task is trying for even the most experienced among us. How one unaccustomed to the chore might hope to succeed where so many accomplished fishermen have failed is beyond me. But mine is not to stand in the way of foolhardy endeavors. The fish float upon inflating pockets of vapor, allowing them to ride currents of air. They are thus able to escape predators and take refuge in the clouds. Moreover, an aerial fish requires an aerial worm, in this case hoverworms. Such is the extent of knowledge that I can confer unto you. I fear the remainder is a matter of experience and skill. I should wish you good luck--you will surely need it.

 

Apparently them skyfish are edible and consumed not all that rarely =P

 

Nice! Was just going off the fishing text from the guide. Usually there's lore in there about who eats them, but wasn't in the log. Glad to see cloud cutters are actually eaten. ^^ Since this is all fishing guide gives you:

 

Cloud Cutter

The swiftest inhabitants of the Sea of Clouds, cloud cutters will fly straight in a single direction for malms before quickly turning at some unthinkable angle and darting off in another direction. On rare occasions, they have been known to puncture the armor plating of airships.

[Coatleque]

It's not that hard to imagine really. How do people survive in the northern reaches of Alaska, Canada, Siberia?

 

Before agriculture, we were primarily carnivores. Chances are, the majority of their food is fish/meat and they import grains.

 

Being in the mountains, they probably have an abundance of stone and ore to build with or trade.

[Khadan]

There's also likely demand for resources only found in Coerthas. Both in mining and botany you'll find things like Jade, spruce lumber, Darksteel ore (rare), and as per mining leves "Blue Mythril". There's also an Ixali daily quest for miners to harvest "Furite", a key component to making the alloy known as Ishgardian Steel. Many many others, as well. =) I imagine in just Coerthas alone, there's a treasure trove of trade commodities for export that Gridania, a veritable 'bread basket' nation, would willingly trade their foodstuffs for.

[QueenFrejyalen]

Thanks everyone for your responses!  :thumbsup:

I agree that they might be eating the dragons they slay, and that they are likely not surviving THAT well through this forced winter.  I think once we can get to Ishgard, it'll be interesting to see if these predictions about their social classes will be accurate, because it sounds like it so far.  And I hadn't thought about all the sheep in the Coerthas Highlands, so having their wool imported to their city would make a lot of sense!

 

Also I had not played during 1.0, so I was not aware how large the map of that area was, and wasn't sure if Ishgard only owned the land in the city limits or if they actually ruled over an entire "country" of land outside the city-state.  I can't wait to see the new maps that'll come out soon to compare to the ones shown here.  =D

 

As a side note, my main RP character is from the mountain range near Ishgard (or was, depending on how this plays out) but they relied on a nearby valley to grow their own food and materials as well as trade routes that they created in the mountains.  So I guess I'll be studying Ishgard in-depth once the rest of the lore comes out.