Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately?

[allgivenover]

People love spectacle and drama. It's way more enticing than reading random story posts from characters you don't care about or you haven't RP'd with.

 

The vast majority of posts on the IC forum get views in the low hundreds, while this topic has 5k as of this post.

 

Look in the mirror if you want to know why aggression is popular here.

 

Also this:

 

However, I feel like when mods edit post to uh... sound nicer? it sort of scrubs that responsibility, like they can say whatever in the moment because a Mod will come and clean it up later no biggie.

 

Unless it brings up personal OOC details or is outright hateful I think posts shouldn't be scrubbed. Especially considering what's scrubbed is never consistent. Mods shouldn't be nannies, but they are here. If people want to post in a way that gets them a bad rep (myself included), let them.

 

It's a minor gripe that I don't see changing any time soon, and maybe I'm wrong about how things should be. However I believe the site is overall a good thing, else I wouldn't have donated.

[Kyrio Lamansque]

Why does discussion inherently turn to people needing to get thicker skin? I think the mod team as a whole does a good job pruning out comments that ride the line. We will continue to do the same thing.

 

Gonna quote the rules on my stance.

 

2. Stand by your words: "Don't say it if you don't want it to be around forever."

 

I take this literally. If I've said something, then it means I've read it over and assume it's going to stick around, whether it makes or breaks me is of my own responsibility. But that's just it. I'm accepting responsibility for whatever I type, which may not be what others are always doing.

 

Even though it was just posted, I felt like I needed to quote this to make sure people get a good read. Earlier in the thread it was mentioned, if you're in an emotional state, don't post. And I treat this like I treat work emails. I'll write it up, look it over. Tweak it. Look it over again. Read it to myself to make sure it sounds good. Yes, aloud. 

 

IMO, the RPC is needed. We need it to help track common events, and serve as the common ground to make connections and have conversations. Conversations demand civility. We don't need thicker skins. We don't need this that or the other taken away from us. IMO, we need to be reminded that we're working for the same goal. 

 

Now, I'm not saying we all join hands and sing Kumbaiya. We have our opinions, we're entitled to them, and we get to voice them. HOW we say them is the fulcrum to what seems to be a lot of problems.

 

Its like the story of the old man who had two wolves in his mind. One basically good, one basically bad. And they're fighting with eachother, all the time. But which one wins? The one the old man feeds.

[K'nahli]

People having a thin-skin is often not the real problem in my experience. Rather, it's other peoples' lack of ability to acknowledge the reasons why their posts have been perceived negatively, furthered by their lack of consideration to clarify their stance while reinforcing a friendly - or at least neutral - tone in such a message.

 

Sometimes people just seem far too concerned with their own voice and the validity of their own opinions to do anything other than default to placing it far above the reactions, thoughts and feelings - spoken or unspoken - of those whom may read it/it was directed at.

 

 

As for intentional hostility... I find that pretty disturbing actually. I understand having a strong opinion on one matter or another and therefore feeling the urge to express how ridiculous the opinion of someone else may seem to you, even if it means being a little sharp or critical, but admitting to frequently using those cases as an opportunity to potentially put someone down just for your own personal amusement as well as indirectly pursuing silent encouragement from others....

 

I'm sorry, I do not like the sound of that and I highly doubt that anything of the kind will continue skimming under the radar at the rate things are going.

I'm familiar with those types of communities and I have to admit that I think it's acceptable in certain places, typically depending on the platform and userbase, but I do not feel that it's something that works for here, and frankly, I do not want to see it turn into such a thing either.

[Branson Thorne]

If you are easily swayed to act or respond a certain way according to another users post count, rep points, or colored name, you're gonna have a bad time in life. My advice is stop trying to copy ssomeone else, and be yourself.

 

Taking away a number baserd rep/post count will solve nothing. The newbie forum poster who is swayed one way to another by post/rep count will still be swayed by just figuring out that another poster is popular. You may as well all limit us to a 5 post per day limit so nobody becomes popular, we wouldn't want them to be able to sway peoples opinions.....

[FreelanceWizard]

Also this:

 

However, I feel like when mods edit post to uh... sound nicer? it sort of scrubs that responsibility, like they can say whatever in the moment because a Mod will come and clean it up later no biggie.

 

Unless it brings up personal OOC details or is outright hateful I think posts shouldn't be scrubbed. Especially considering what's scrubbed is never consistent. Mods shouldn't be nannies, but they are here. If people want to post in a way that gets them a bad rep (myself included), let them.

 

It's a minor gripe that I don't see changing any time soon, and maybe I'm wrong about how things should be. However I believe the site is overall a good thing, else I wouldn't have donated.

 

If you'll think back to when I was first given the magic admin hat (sadly, a decision I've been coming to regret), my primary weapon against bad actors was the thread lock and warning combo -- locking to prevent people from sniping back, and warning the participants to cool them down. Other than some pretty rare exceptions, I largely didn't get rid of posts. Unsurprisingly, this didn't and hasn't sat very well with people.

 

Post removal has been a more recent approach to moderation in response to the concerns people have been bringing up here and on other threads and PMs. I tend to agree that the best approach to tone is to let people see others' true colors, as it were. However, a lot of the hostility over the last few months has been crossing the line, which has prompted the use of post removal and thread slicing more than in the past. Also, newer moderators are still getting a feel for the right approach.

 

At any rate, what we're working on going is mostly a framework for what sort of actions will get a warning (in the name of transparency and consistency) and what warnings will do to those who repeatedly get them (in the name of civility). The basic forum rules will remain the same.

[OttoVann]

If you are easily swayed to act or respond a certain way according to another users post count, rep points, or colored name, you're gonna have a bad time in life. My advice is stop trying to copy ssomeone else, and be yourself.

 

Taking away a number baserd rep/post count will solve nothing. The newbie forum poster who is swayed one way to another by post/rep count will still be swayed by just figuring out that another poster is popular. You may as well all limit us to a 5 post per day limit so nobody becomes popular, we wouldn't want them to be able to sway peoples opinions.....

 

Don't intentionally misconstrue me. A lot of people here outright ignore anything that someone posts who joined recently, posts little, or lacks high value-rep. This is not at all about new people being swayed to anything. This isn't about stopping popular people from being liked, it's about hiding post-counts/join dates get typically ignored. A lot of us have been around a lot of forums for a long time, and we all know it happens. Why not just remove many of the common tools that people use to easily discriminate?

 

More importantly, if we're actually being honest, most 'popular' people here sequester themselves away into google hangouts and skype group chats and ignore almost everyone here not in those groups, that are invite only.

[ArmachiA]

Is there a way to pull a Something Awful/4chan and like if someone says something snarky at the bottom of the post it says:

 

[user was given a warning for this post]

 

[user was banned for this post]

 

Instead of completely editing it? Or would that not go over well?

[OttoVann]

I'd like that, however, on those sites' forums, typically when someone gets those messages everyone else goes complete apeshit and says MODS = GODS. It becomes a huge humor spectacle when it happens, lots of laughing.

[Harmonixer]

I did it, I finally read through everyone's posts!

 

I'm actually surprised that a fair amount of people that I thought would have opinions on this, are no where to be found. I'm hardly instigating, mind you. It was really an observation.

 

Speaking of which, I've had the pleasure of speaking to a fair amount of you now. In my short, 3ish months on being actually active on this game? I made a few friends, working on some new ones and have for the most part discovered who I'll be avoiding and luckily, more than I'd like to pursue continued interactions with.

 

You might ask 'wtf does this have to do with anything?' Well, none of it would have happened if I hadn't met people on here in some way. Be it LS, FCs, whatever. Lots of posts catch my eye. I've actually been lurking here since 1.0. I just never bothered to reg because I wasn't actively playing and I enjoy being part of a community semi-actively.

 

I've watched people come and go, see the 'drama' and seen lots of very happy people. But more recently, it's seemed mostly positive. A lot of the threads I've participated in, were pretty cool discussions and I learned a lot of stuff. Some of the so-called troublemakers are actually really grand people, come to find out. At least, from my interactions.

 

I didn't list my character for a long time, I don't have a wiki because the race I plan to play isn't even in the game yet. When I joined some LS, the most common thing I heard was 'holy chit, you're Harmonixer from RPC? I didn't even realize'. Part of that was the plan, I guess?

 

There are definitely cliques here. There are certainly celebs, even if you don't want to be labeled as such. I'm sorry, it's just something that happens in social circles. However the things you do with such labels, chosen or not, is very important.

 

I've said it before, -most- of the people I've interacted with have been very kind of me. I don't really leave an impression around here I don't think. Most people don't even recognize my character in game. (Who can blame them, I've fantasia'd him oocly a number of times, I didn't even start actively rping him until maybe a month ago?) Whenever I've asked about events, I'm given the proper info or directed to where I can find it. If I've asked someone to RP, they are able to communicate to me accurately if they can or want to. I have been ignored, but I know for mostly certainty that it was not intentional.

 

There are people that have said things to me that have -really- rubbed me the wrong way. It's vague, I know. But the catch is I've not thought to myself:

 

'This community is really hostile.'

 

Or

 

'Things sure are heating up.'

 

I don't think I'm popular. I don't think I'm hated. I like to think I'm mostly neutral in the regard to the general populous.

 

Things I have noticed:

 

A fair number of people who aren't regulars are very quick to proclaim 'RPC is a shithole! It's so fucked up how this and this happens, and me-me-me-me and my friends are really looked down on!'

 

Some of the more popular people have even said things much to my shock like 'So and so is a horrible person and this and that!' when me, the person typing this has seen nothing but wonderful things coming out of this persons fingertips on my screen.

 

Does that mean they are indeed faultless and not capable of things that they are being accused of behind their back? No, but I would say the sheer amount of negativity coming from people that have shown me that they are mostly negative and generally unhappy sure does tell me a LOT about their own thought process.

 

Surprise, I don't think a single one of us here is special. I actually think a fair amount of you are wonderful, I hope some of you who have taken the time to listen to what I've said think I'm at least somewhat worthwhile. But I'm not going to get really hung up if you don't. The community that I normally frequent is extremely hostile and very hateful. I've seen some absolutely horrible shit come from it.

 

Which brings me to the next part.

 

If I had to really wager on the subject. I'd say more good is coming from here than harm. Most of the raw things being said, are behind each others backs. I usually get to hear about it from people because of gossip, random things I catch from going to events and just observing in general. I don't think removing rep or stars or whatever is going to make a bit of difference.

 

I don't think 'growing thicker skin' or 'being more sensitive' is suddenly going to fix stuff. It's going to take effort on all parties to figure out what they are really trying to say. Altho I do agree some people need to stop playing victim, because that actually is taking place in a lot of cases.

 

My theory is, the people who think this place is the worst thing ever will do better to just actually leave. I don't think their horrible people at all. I think they'll be happier exposing themselves to different outlets and realize that they are as much of the problem as they claim to be against.

 

Someone recently pointed out to me, it's healthy to vent a little. Without the intent to harm others, sometimes you just have to bitch a little. I'm supportive of this, but once it becomes a consuming facet of your existence, it's better for you to place your passion somewhere else. You'll be happier, I promise you.

 

As for the OP? I think it's just a matter of some people being much bolder with their opinions because more people are becoming brave enough to say things in general. It's a rise, a reaction and it's not very different from how it's always been. Denial on my behalf? I certainly hope not, nothing is at stake for me here.

[Edvyn]

Is there a way to pull a Something Awful/4chan and like if someone says something snarky at the bottom of the post it says:

 

[user was given a warning for this post]

 

[user was banned for this post]

 

Instead of completely editing it? Or would that not go over well?

i'd love that shit personally, bring it on

 

_{Moderator note: do not say that the mods smell bad or you will be getting a punishment friend!}

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

 

 

MOD EDIT:

(USER WAS GENUINELY BANNED FOR THIS POST FOR FALSELY ADVERTISING ACTIONS NOT TAKEN BY SITE STAFF)

[Faye]

I'd like that, however, on those sites' forums, typically when someone gets those messages everyone else goes complete apeshit and says MODS = GODS. It becomes a huge humor spectacle when it happens, lots of laughing.

 

^ Transparency is nice, especially because people are silly and like to believe that if they don't see the punishment, it doesn't happen, but ultimately making a spectacle of disciplinary actions keeps the drama going longer and leads to more hurt feelings in most cases.

[Aya]

Don't intentionally misconstrue me.  A lot of people here outright ignore anything that someone posts who joined recently, posts little, or lacks high value-rep.  This is not at all about new people being swayed to anything.  This isn't about stopping popular people from being liked, it's about hiding post-counts/join dates get typically ignored.  A lot of us have been around a lot of forums for a long time, and we all know it happens.  Why not just remove many of the common tools that people use to easily discriminate?

 

More importantly, if we're actually being honest, most 'popular' people here sequester themselves away into google hangouts and skype group chats and ignore almost everyone here not in those groups, that are invite only.

Really?  Our community is so small that everyone knows everyone else, who is hiding those post counts supposed to fool?

 

Ultimately I really feel that this is an overall positive and mature community that has provided a generally phenomenal atmosphere since I first joined it.  We don't require a heavy hand to do so, and certainly don't need the scissors taken away from us so that we don't hurt ourselves.  A little reminder of the ancient wisdom of Wyld Stallyns is, I suspect, all that is really needed most of the time: "Be excellent to each other." 

 

I think moderator input to posters perceived as causing problems is all that would be helpful in most cases (we do not have any real trolls here, its part of why I love this community).  This input should perhaps be more quick to respond than it is at the moment (and the usual process of closing threads and whatnot is always an unfortunate necessity).  But heavy-handed attempts to shape the community from the top are both unnecessary, and likely to cause more harm than good to this environment.

[Flashhelix]

A lot of people here outright ignore anything that someone posts who joined recently, posts little, or lacks high value-rep.

 

I haven't seen anything even remotely resembling this. Hint-hint. If you post, and then somebody with a higher rep posts, then people start responding to that person's post instead of yours, chances are that those people know that person, and are their friends. So if we're gonna start demonizing having friends on the RPC then I think there's gonna be a serious case of butts in the mustard, friend

[Melkire]

A lot of people here outright ignore anything that someone posts who joined recently, posts little, or lacks high value-rep.

 

Hiding these things, while possibly worthwhile, doesn't stop this from happening, at least not according to my previous moderating experiences. People respond more frequently to people they know or have interacted with before. That's just how it is. That's just how people are.

 

Thought I'd point that out.

[OttoVann]

A lot of people here outright ignore anything that someone posts who joined recently, posts little, or lacks high value-rep.

 

I haven't seen anything even remotely resembling this. Hint-hint. If you post, and then somebody with a higher rep posts, then people start responding to that person's post instead of yours, chances are that those people know that person, and are their friends. So if we're gonna start demonizing having friends on the RPC then I think there's gonna be a serious case of butts in the mustard, friend

 

But no one said we are demonizing having friends until you did, and we both know that you knew that wasn't my point. I'm also skeptical that hiding the fact that someone joined two weeks ago versus two years ago does that, or that someone who has 30 posts compared to 3000 posts all of a sudden having an equalized voice ala post count/rep hidden does that.

 

A lot of people here outright ignore anything that someone posts who joined recently, posts little, or lacks high value-rep.

 

Hiding these things, while possibly worthwhile, doesn't stop this from happening, at least not according to my previous moderating experiences. People respond more frequently to people they know or have interacted with before. That's just how it is. That's just how people are.

 

Thought I'd point that out.

 

Oh I know it wont stop it, and theres nothing wrong with people being dismissive of those that aren't their friends, that's their choice. But it does lessen the effect when everyones posts are normalized in there efficacy when a majority of forum goers on any forum use seniority markers to gauge how much value to give a post they just read.

[Kellach Woods]

Really?  Our community is so small that everyone knows everyone else, who is hiding those post counts supposed to fool?

 

Everyone knows everyone else, really?

 

That I have to question. Same with the assumption that everyone's friends here.

[Flashhelix]

A lot of people here outright ignore anything that someone posts who joined recently, posts little, or lacks high value-rep.

 

I haven't seen anything even remotely resembling this. Hint-hint. If you post, and then somebody with a higher rep posts, then people start responding to that person's post instead of yours, chances are that those people know that person, and are their friends. So if we're gonna start demonizing having friends on the RPC then I think there's gonna be a serious case of butts in the mustard, friend

 

But no one said we are demonizing having friends until you did, and we both know that you knew that wasn't my point. I'm also skeptical that hiding the fact that someone joined two weeks ago versus two years ago does that, or that someone who has 30 posts compared to 3000 posts all of a sudden having an equalized voice ala post count/rep hidden does that.

 

everybody already has an equalized voice, this is one shabby sheila of an argument here, we've got radish up to our quarterstacks and the meaning of my post wasn't clear

 

rep/post counts only have meaning to people who don't have them and thus blame the lack of such on why they don't get more attention than they'd like, an artificial problem

[Aya]

Really?  Our community is so small that everyone knows everyone else, who is hiding those post counts supposed to fool?

Everyone knows everyone else, really?

 

That I have to question. Same with the assumption that everyone's friends here.

I think most of the regular users know who the other regular uses are and recognize a new person without any reference to a post count, yes :-X

[Branson Thorne]

If you are easily swayed to act or respond a certain way according to another users post count, rep points, or colored name, you're gonna have a bad time in life. My advice is stop trying to copy ssomeone else, and be yourself.

 

Taking away a number baserd rep/post count will solve nothing. The newbie forum poster who is swayed one way to another by post/rep count will still be swayed by just figuring out that another poster is popular. You may as well all limit us to a 5 post per day limit so nobody becomes popular, we wouldn't want them to be able to sway peoples opinions.....

 

Don't intentionally misconstrue me. A lot of people here outright ignore anything that someone posts who joined recently, posts little, or lacks high value-rep. This is not at all about new people being swayed to anything. This isn't about stopping popular people from being liked, it's about hiding post-counts/join dates get typically ignored. A lot of us have been around a lot of forums for a long time, and we all know it happens. Why not just remove many of the common tools that people use to easily discriminate?

 

More importantly, if we're actually being honest, most 'popular' people here sequester themselves away into google hangouts and skype group chats and ignore almost everyone here not in those groups, that are invite only.

In part, this is excatly what I mean about people being fragile. I replied to no one in particular but the overall topic in general, and you took it as "intentionally misconstrue me" simply because I disagreed.

 

Now you may have not meant anything by this, I'm just using it as an example.

[K'nahli]

I have difficulty believing that such things really deter people from reading the posts of newer/less frequent users. If it's a topic you're skimming through anyways and are only curious for a specific few's answers then yeah, sure. Otherwise I imagine that everyone is curious to read any and all input.

 

Albeit that's just me. I can't really say that it's not a possibility either.

[Cliodhna Eoghan]

My concern with that: There's already an existing attitude towards anyone with a certain number of reputation bumps. I won't invoke the off-topic "P" word but a week won't change any single person's opinion that's already on this board: The red names and green numbers are already noted by the people who will take umbrage with them.

if people are staring to suggest removing the rep mods or hiding them, then maybe they should hide the red text on names too. sure it started as a great idea; let's all help fund the rpc because we love this site...but now even something done with the best intentions is possibly under fire of being "toxic" to newer players or those that haven't donated for one reason or another.

 

.....i'm sure a few of you noticed my sig is in a spoiler tag. shortly after i changed it to it's current one i was asked polity to change it or hide it due to the content being possibly considered "unsafe" for work computers and there was comment of it possibly causing crashes with some peoples phones even though i was told it wasn't too mature or out of bounds content for the rpc's tos itself.

 

i'm sure i could have raised hell over it and started pointing fingers about other sigs that are past the size guidelines or other art posted that has a risque look to them, but nope. stuffed it in a spoiler and carried on without an issue. why? because where as i like my sig and i dont think it's a problem....it made some people feel uncomfortable while trying to browse the rpc at work or on their phone. both were valid reasons to me and it didn't hurt for me to be a little accommodating for them overall if it was just a minor change i had to make.

 

 

my point (i have one i promise) is this is quickly heading into everyone talking about various ways to censer posts, comments, likes rep mods and people wanting to show that they support this site with a red flavor to their text. yes things have gotten a bit crazy in here and yeah i did post earlier that i did notice it myself in regards to new players not getting as much attention but as it was also pointed out; that's a bit of a two way street and some connections don't work out while others do. the point is that both need to make an effort. (as i can attest i have one i'm working with through pm to get some sort of connection and another i plan to meet up with later tonight....once i finish making dinner actually, this is also how i met a few of you in game was posting here either in your thread when you started or mine i posted shortly after joining.)

 

..but getting back to the topic of removing or censoring the rep mods; why do we need to hide them for new members to feel more at ease? if the community is open and welcoming (which i know it can be and has been many many times in and off game) why should they feel that it's intimidating? a lot of these were handed out for good posts that were helpful to one person or another.

 

as i mentioned earlier, warren helped me with my initial planning on my shots contest ("rolz....what's that? .__." i believe was the reply when he suggested it) i had no idea how to go about it and when i first found his profile on here, i looked at the post count and the amount of rep mods...both are pretty fricken big numbers, but i shot of a pm saying hi, i was new, had an idea for an event and was wondering if i could get some help figuring it out. got a reply shortly after and we were on our way. he was open, nice and giving suggestions for me to gnaw on and work with. shortly after i forgot the big numbers and instead of them being viewed as "better than me" they looked like points proving how dedicated he was to this site and rp.

 

yes i realize that some rep mods given to users were gained through hostile means but if you look at mine and i'm sure a whole ton of others; you'll see a lot were given for saying nice, thoughtful, funny and encouraging things. not every plus1 is given over something negative....but as warren also stated in his post; i don't always have time to stop and say "hey that gif really made me lul" or "i agree" and i'll be honest it does make me smile when i get one because i know it made that person happy for a minute. please don't take away things that were meant to be good and encouraging in attempts to cut out the bad parts that are starting to form.

 

as far as hostile posts go; proofreading is a wonderful thing....i think if people take a moment to really read their replies and think how it sounds to others and not just how it sounds to themselves could really make a change in some of the more heated debates. the lack of body language and verbal tone/inflection does make things a bit more difficult (not to mention some having english as their second language that can sometimes cause miscommunications) i feel are valid enough reasons to be a bit more careful when posting your reply in a more "touchy" thread.

 

everyone should be able to discuses their feels on something even if it's conflicting to someone else. but if we take the time to make sure it's presented while trying to keep our cool; we don't need the mods to clean up spill after spill...or at least quite as much. i'm sure there will still be a flair up here and there, but if you try to talk to someone as you would in person instead of not...i think it goes a bit better. even if both parties decide to agree to disagree in the end. (as stated before; we all pay our own sub and have our own ideas about our rp and best way to do things.) sometimes the opinions mesh sometimes they don't. but instead of trying to force the other party; its okay to say "i tried and they're really set but i still don't agree" and take a step back.

 

i've seen more than one say that their posting as of late and everyone being hyper aware of it lately has been making them self conscious to post and are debating on posting less now....the ones that feel they're in the wrong i'm sure are going to make an effort to change for the better...and if overall tension can go down...i'm sure this will help everyone feel more at ease when loggin in.

 

i really do love this site and consider it an online home. i have right now five tabs open and i check it on my phone most times when im out,though i don't post in all of them, i read a lot of the threads across most the boards. (even if the more gif heavy threads cause it to crash sometimes....:lol: ) but i worry if so many are feeling the need to post less for fear of either enforced censorship or self censorship to avoid the former; how open and welcoming will a barely used forum be? i know we as a community can get over this bump, we just gotta work together....old and new members. how's the song go?

look to those who walked before to lead those who walk after

[OttoVann]

Whats a red name mean / do? I wasn't quite sure what it was.

[Branson Thorne]

Whats a red name mean / do? I wasn't quite sure what it was.

 

It's just a small monthly sub we pay to help keep the RPC going. It just means you are one of those people who donated.

[Aya]

It means I'm out painting the town red!

[OttoVann]

Whats a red name mean / do? I wasn't quite sure what it was.

 

It's just a small monthly sub we pay to help keep the RPC going. It just means you are one of those people who donated.

 

Oh word. Where is that advertised?