Character Creation: Assessment and Critique

[LiadansWhisper]

 

 

 

One of the reasons as to why I stopped playing a Highlander, personally. I figured I might as well go down the 'classically handsome' route instead since it's just as satisfying to me as 'rough and rugged' but it's actually possible to reflect it in-game.

 

It's truly a crime.  More hair options would be amazing.

 

I'm still trying to figure out why we wear sandals everywhere  tho.  

 

If this was ment in any seriousness, I think it's something to do with how the models are rigged. They are always in some kind of 'shoe' and unable to be rendered otherwise. The texture would stretch out and look weird over a foot mesh.

 

It bugs the hell out of me too, but like I said- pretty sure it's the model itself being a problem.

 

I know there is probably a really good reason for it, but I miss being able to go bare foot.  I would love to see a pair of shoes in the game that lets you appear to be barefoot, but I don't know if that's possible.

[Mercer]

Criticism of parts of a game doesn't mean you dislike the game. There are always ways for games to improve, and criticism is the examination on what could be improved.

 

I'd love to see FFXIV have a better character creator. It's the one thing that's missing from a fantastic game. I'd like to see some more options, body sliders, power customization, etc and so on. That doesn't take away from the fact that they push out content more reliably than any other MMO developer with a consistent patch cycle that delivers content on every front, from PvP to endgame to casual play to roleplay.

 

Do I wish the Au Ra had some more diversity to their height and body choices? Sure, it'd give some more diversity to the roleplayers. At the same time though, I understand the restrictions that Square has with the PS3 and PS4.

 

Let's just keep it civil and remember that criticism to a fantastic game should not be regarded as a personal attack. It's a game, made by a developer for profit, mind that FFXIV has a lot more developer love than most. It's nothing personal, we'd just like to see some things improved, even if it is just a pipedream.

[FreelanceWizard]

Are you unhappy about it on principle, or because the result wound up being something that does not appeal to you? Granted, it's ok to be both.

 

Mostly, it bothers me on principle. Artists, in my mind, shouldn't be kowtowing to financiers; doing so is basically throwing art under the bus in favor of making money. We already give those with capital far too much control over our society, IMO. But that's a discussion for a different thread.

 

With that said, I actually like the appearance of the race -- there's actually not a single race in XIV I don't like the looks of. Whether I like it in general or enough to play one depends on the lore. I'm still waiting for the explanation of the extreme sexual dimorphism.

 

Also, yes to being able to go barefoot. I really don't like that we can't do that.

 

Now with that said, work time:

 

One initiative I'd like to get back to is not zapping posts out of the threads. I will, however, request that those discussing genderqueer issues in games in general either take it to PM or another thread over in Off-Topic. Thanks.

[Gegenji]

It was mentioned that money/resources isn't a valid arguing point (or something akin to it), but I'd have to argue that it very much does. Especially with a Triple-A title, it shouldn't be all that surprising that situation like the hated "focus group data" event that led to the Au Ra would occur. It looks like a cash grab because that's what it is - they want to sell as many copies of Heavensward as possible.

 

And you can't say it hasn't worked: even here on the RPC, we have plenty of excitement for it. Some people came back specifically for it. That's what they are going for. You could say the same thing about the new classes - tons of people are clamoring for DRK and MCH.

 

With that in mind, it is an unfortunate truth that the minority's voice will likely be left unheard. Beastly and/or burly females won't be added or able to be made beyond what already exists because too few of the player base plays them to make it look like a sound investment on SE's part. Of course, they wouldn't know how well a more monstrous or or brawny race might do, but it's a two-way street: just as  it could do well, it could just as likely be ignored by all but a few niche players.

 

Niche markets are not as profitable. The best I believe they can provide is the small nods here and there that they've done so far. And if there is generally positive reactions to these nods, by enough of the player base, then it starts looking more and more like a net gain for the company to invest into it more.

 

The issue is how to translate that into people wanting a more robust character creation system? I agree that it's lacking in several areas (where's my fat heroes?), but I am unsure of a "safe" method for them to test the waters. Especially considering the only way to adjust a character's overall shape and appearance outside of character creation is with a store-bought item.

 

The best I can see happening is that they add a new face or two and see how many people Fantasia into using them. I just can't see the implementation of ass sliders and the like without a very public and widespread demand for them.

 

So, as regrettable as it may be, we are stuck working with what we have and letting our imaginations cover for the rest. I'd really enjoy a muscle slider for Chachan, but I still somehow manage to portray that burl that doesn't actually exist on his model. And I'm content enough wit that until some large movement takes place to let SE know that the majority of the player base is wanting - and willing to pay for - a more robust character creation system.

 

Because I would be totally willing to add my signature to the pile.

[Wymsical]

Really, the best way to make happy both those who wanted short females and feminine males (like me) and those who want rough horned women and tall Au Ra men would've been to make two physically different clans, with different emotes and customizations. I'm still annoyed that only Hyurs got that candy. You'd think that in two years they could've designed two clans separated by something more than scale color.

 

Because it's essentially making two different races. Wholly new meshes, faces, features, the way armor and clothing fits on them, ect. It's a lot of work and they did it once; sadly, there's very few people playing the second half of that race. Given how much else they were doing with HW, I understand why they probably considered it but were unable to justify that amount of work for what might've very well been another 40% of a 6%.

[Zhavi]

 

 

 

Hahahaha.

 

Okay, for an example, the troll female faces besides the pretty one (pre the graphics update, I don't know what they look like now), could easily qualify for rugged.

 

Weathered, lined, rough-around-the-edges, a little fierce: you can achieve this with roe to a degree, but with the Au Ra, with the horns and the scales -- I was just hoping for something taller and meaner and maybe a little less of the typical beauty.

 

(I'm starting to realize from these discussions that what I want to see is a very narrow aesthetic -- but, I dunno, I'd be okay with fifth face options for races that go a little outside of the box for that race, which lets the devs have their target audience while still filling for the niche lovers)

 

I think an easy middle ground would be to provide options within the race selections to add or discard characteristics like hair, or more chiseled/rugged features.  I'd love to see them add things like that in addition to hairstyles (which I think someone else suggested, too?).

 

Yeah. I wouldn't mind if for the next expansion they didn't add a new race and instead upgraded customization of current races. That way you're not cutting out time necessary for new gear and emotes and stuff (as the time/people who would be doing the customization would be doing that instead of building stuff for a new race), while still giving people something new to play with.

 

That would tick off all the boxes of things that would make me happy.

[Harmonixer]

 

 

 

One of the reasons as to why I stopped playing a Highlander, personally. I figured I might as well go down the 'classically handsome' route instead since it's just as satisfying to me as 'rough and rugged' but it's actually possible to reflect it in-game.

 

It's truly a crime.  More hair options would be amazing.

 

I'm still trying to figure out why we wear sandals everywhere  tho.  

 

If this was ment in any seriousness, I think it's something to do with how the models are rigged. They are always in some kind of 'shoe' and unable to be rendered otherwise. The texture would stretch out and look weird over a foot mesh.

 

It bugs the hell out of me too, but like I said- pretty sure it's the model itself being a problem.

 

I know there is probably a really good reason for it, but I miss being able to go bare foot.  I would love to see a pair of shoes in the game that lets you appear to be barefoot, but I don't know if that's possible.

 

Technically, there is. It's possible to make a 'barefoot' shoe. The problem is, it would have to equipable. Then you couldn't wear anything on the bottom, plus possible stretching textures and seams where the 'shoe' ends.

 

I strongly believe it's easier for the modelers to have a 'shoe' on at all times because of (coming full circle now) PS3. It's part shortcut, part hardware.

 

Unrelated, but related. I have reason to believe the Au Ra males use male Miqote bones for their rigging. It's eerily similar in the videos I've seen. I hope it changes, it's the only thing I don't like. Very bouncy and sort of out of place considering their frame is so large. If it is, again it would be a shortcut because they wouldn't have to build a new model completely.

 

At this rate, they are just really burly stretched out cats for the males. But I like to think there's some more than that. We'll see though.

[Mercer]

It was mentioned that money/resources isn't a valid arguing point (or something akin to it), but I'd have to argue that it very much does. Especially with a Triple-A title, it shouldn't be all that surprising that situation like the hated "focus group data" event that led to the Au Ra would occur. It looks like a cash grab because that's what it is - they want to sell as many copies of Heavensward as possible.

 

And you can't say it hasn't worked: even here on the RPC, we have plenty of excitement for it. Some people came back specifically for it. That's what they are going for. You could say the same thing about the new classes - tons of people are clamoring for DRK and MCH.

 

With that in mind, it is an unfortunate truth that the minority's voice will likely be left unheard. Beastly and/or burly females won't be added or able to be made beyond what already exists because too few of the player base plays them to make it look like a sound investment on SE's part. Of course, they wouldn't know how well a more monstrous or or brawny race might do, but it's a two-way street: just as  it could do well, it could just as likely be ignored by all but a few niche players.

 

Niche markets are not as profitable. The best I believe they can provide is the small nods here and there that they've done so far. And if there is generally positive reactions to these nods, by enough of the player base, then it starts looking more and more like a net gain for the company to invest into it more.

 

The issue is how to translate that into people wanting a more robust character creation system? I agree that it's lacking in several areas (where's my fat heroes?), but I am unsure of a "safe" method for them to test the waters. Especially considering the only way to adjust a character's overall shape and appearance outside of character creation is with a store-bought item.

 

The best I can see happening is that they add a new face or two and see how many people Fantasia into using them. I just can't see the implementation of ass sliders and the like without a very public and widespread demand for them.

 

So, as regrettable as it may be, we are stuck working with what we have and letting our imaginations cover for the rest. I'd really enjoy a muscle slider for Chachan, but I still somehow manage to portray that burl that doesn't actually exist on his model. And I'm content enough wit that until some large movement takes place to let SE know that the majority of the player base is wanting - and willing to pay for - a more robust character creation system.

 

Because I would be totally willing to add my signature to the pile.

 

Hi there, welcome to AAA game design where everything is about profit and trying not to drown in a sea of crap.

 

In all seriousness, I'd like to retread on something about FFXIV. The fact that this is a series on a second chance. Heavensward is really the first content we've seen since ARR was first developed. Yoshi-P has said that voice recording for the full 2.0 patch cycle was done before 2.1 launched. Features, ideas, story have all been done before the re-launch two years ago. 

 

This is the first content shown that has been developed with the idea that FFXIV may be profitable. Even then, the plans and designs for Ishgard have been building since 1.0, five years ago. That is something that I think people lose track of during a game development cycle, all this plans and creations have been in place literally for years before they are shown.

 

To be blunt, game design is rarely on the same timeline as current events. It can take up to three years of real time for game development to catch up. All the concept and story work for this expansion is done, it's in production. Concepts for classes and races for the expansion after that are what are being developed now or might even already be done. MMO design is not a cut and dry process, it takes literal years to move from concept to production to launch. With as structured and consistent of a patching environment as XIV has, it's guaranteed that if Square does want to expand on it's race availability it's years out.

[Hyrist]

Mostly, it bothers me on principle. Artists, in my mind, shouldn't be kowtowing to financiers; doing so is basically throwing art under the bus in favor of making money. We already give those with capital far too much control over our society, IMO. But that's a discussion for a different thread.

 

With that said, I actually like the appearance of the race -- there's actually not a single race in XIV I don't like the looks of. Whether I like it in general or enough to play one depends on the lore. I'm still waiting for the explanation of the extreme sexual dimorphism.

 

Also, yes to being able to go barefoot. I really don't like that we can't do that.

 

Now with that said, work time:

 

One initiative I'd like to get back to is not zapping posts out of the threads. I will, however, request that those discussing genderqueer issues in games in general either take it to PM or another thread over in Off-Topic. Thanks.

 

I can't fault that logic - that's the very reason why I did not go into Graphic Design. But regardless of whether or not you or I agree on the matter, it is the sad reality that as much 'artistic' as a game can feel, it falls far more into the field of Graphic Design, than Fine Arts.

 

And the unspoken devil of Graphic Design is that you are, in reality, selling out your artistic talent to the customer. It's not your baby, it's just your work. Gaming often wags back and forth across that line frequently.

 

As far as the Lore of the Race is concerned - I maneuvered myself to have my character in a situation in which her own race is Foreign to her. While I had not yet made the decision for a race change, the character long ago made foreshadowing that she was not as she appeared to be, and that even she did not understand it (and, in fact, feared it and tried to flee from the truth.) The fact that she's not even the same Race she was raised to believe is only the beginning of her journey of self discovery - in many ways.

 

It's actually working out very well and I'm excited to lead into this twist in her story.

 

Sidenote: I don't envy you, your hat. *pat pat*

[Blue]

If the races design is truly profit-driven, and as such strongly based on demand, are we to imagine the next one will be Viera? People have been crying for it since that very first misfortunately worded poll back in 1.0...

[LiadansWhisper]

If the races design is truly profit-driven, and as such strongly based on demand, are we to imagine the next one will be Viera? People have been crying for it since that very first misfortunately worded poll back in 1.0...

 

It's quite possible that it will be.  However, Yoshi-P and company do seem inclined to do "surprises," and Viera would be the "expected" next race.  So we may end up with an actual Dragon race, or something completely different.

[Kage]

From what I saw, they -did- consider Viera but their art concepts were not what they wanted in the end so they didn't go with it. There were some screens somewhere with Viera concepts.

[Mercer]

If the races design is truly profit-driven, and as such strongly based on demand, are we to imagine the next one will be Viera? People have been crying for it since that very first misfortunately worded poll back in 1.0...

 

That depends, I'd say it's likely. They were one of the races they attempted when Heavensward was in it's concept stages and there is a ton of concept out art about them. The Au Ra are a combination of two different race designs being hybridized into a final product, a combination of Demonic and Dragon concepts.

[Mercer]

One last thing before I head off.

 

Variety seems to be the name of the game here, people want more variety in the characters they want to create. I would like to reiterate that variety takes time. The Au Ra are something completely different that the game has not seen before. They stand out as very unique, given there demonic and draconic imagery, the wide size differences, the large variety of skin tones.

 

Do they rely heavily on moe and shonen themes? Yes, but nothing else in this game has really done that look. Regardless of how focus tested they maybe, they are definitely unique in the game world. It hints that Yoshi-P and the developers do want a diverse and strange world to explore, as each race does bring something unique to that table as far as looks, stature, muscle structure and diversity goes.

[Warren Castille]

As has been mentioned, "just" doing two tribes is effectively asking for four unique models, skeletons and motion-capture parts. This is what takes so long when designing new races, to my knowledge - Unless you want copy/pasted/palettechanged people, there's a lot of design and work that goes into them.

 

I hope we get more options in the future, too, but it's also true I'm happy with my characters at the current time.

[OttoVann]

Id like to see the bunny people. It would be a profit driven thing too since like 65% of japanese characters are miqo, almost all female. More subscribers, more racial diversity, plus they look good and are tall.

 

Why not

[Wymsical]

As has been mentioned, "just" doing two tribes is effectively asking for four unique models, skeletons and motion-capture parts. This is what takes so long when designing new races, to my knowledge - Unless you want copy/pasted/palettechanged people, there's a lot of design and work that goes into them.

 

I hope we get more options in the future, too, but it's also true I'm happy with my characters at the current time.

 

Additionally, half of Highlander and Roegadyn was already done so it was a lot less work to just add females. That's probably why Roegadyn and every other race are only palette swaps (and a few other details) and Hyur are the exception. 

 

I don't see two vastly differing clans/tribes happening again unless fewer gameplay/areas/ect are being added.

[Warren Castille]

Additionally, half of Highlander and Roegadyn was already done so it was a lot less work to just add females. That's probably why Roegadyn and every other race are only palette swaps (and a few other details) and Hyur are the exception. 

 

I don't see two vastly differing clans/tribes happening again unless fewer gameplay/areas/ect are being added.

 

It actually goes a little further than that. I could be wrong but I thought that the split eye color was locked to Keepers at first before becoming a universal character option. There's a lot of homogenization in character creation now.

 

That is, if I'm remembering correctly. I'm trying to recall character building in 1.0 but it was a lifetime ago.

[Flickering Ember]

Here's the thing and it was mentioned in the previous thread. A race like Au Ra isn't bringing in a significant player base that wasn't there already. It is more of the same and I see it as a race that is essentially generating hype amongst the existing player base rather than pulling in new folks who don't feel represented in this game's character creation.

 

I would have passed on this game without female roegadyns being added. At this point it is the only races I would consider playing.

[Kismet]

If we had absolutely no "husky" races to choose from in XIV, I'd be more disappointed about the inclusion of the Au Ra. But that isn't the case. We have Highlanders and Roegadyn. A good handful of MMOs don't even have one "burly" option for players, let alone two. Is it equal to the amount of pretty races we have? No. Is it better than nothing? Very much so.

 

Now, if I'm going to touch on the limitations of the character creator itself (i.e. "why isn't this more like Aion/PSO2/Black Desert/etc?"), I like ones that are very involved. Even before I knew RP even existed as a thing anyone did, I just loved making characters. It's a fun process in itself. However, if the CC needs to be limited in order to make the rest of the game fantastic (and the LARGE majority of XIV is indeed fantastic), then I'm totally okay with that. It's a small price to pay, imo, for consistent high quality content updates and an attention to detail that most other studios are too cheap to give a damn about.

 

[insert obligatory commentary about how the PS3 is holding back XIV's true potential here]

[Zhavi]

If we had absolutely no "husky" races to choose from in XIV, I'd be more disappointed about the inclusion of the Au Ra. But that isn't the case. We have Highlanders and Roegadyn. A good handful of MMOs don't even have one "burly" option for players, let alone two. Is it equal to the amount of pretty races we have? No. Is it better than nothing? Very much so.

 

 

The problem with them is more lore related than anything else, at least from my perspective of me being whiny.

 

That and, I dunno, highlanders are fierce but in the way of a fiercely beautiful Greek goddess. Roes are closer but they're lacking something (and their lore isn't terribly appealing to me). What I'd like is something a little more inhuman, a little more rugged, and a little more badass with some options that go for 'tough' over 'beautiful'.

 

I'm being exceptionally picky, but there you have it. *waves special snowflake flag*

[industrythirteen]

Personally, I'd like to know how the art team tests their designs. How do they choose what gets modeled? Do they run their models by others, test to see what is or isn't going to be picked? Do they test for eastern and western sensibilities? Maybe that bottom right Au Ra male face is super popular in japan, but I see it used less on the RPC and tumblr. 

 

I've found myself thinking, and sometimes saying out loud to no one but myself "Oh. If only this weren't there, or if that was over..." with many of the options. To me, I see a lot of wasted potential, but again, it's only my opinion. It's not just FFXIV, or the Au Ra (which I love, not to give anyone any impression otherwise.) I see it across the entire genre. 

 

Without fail, I have never seen any MMO change any character creator after beta, or take player feedback seriously regarding the character creator, or the models, or what options people would like to see in addition. Of course, I haven't played all MMOs, but I've played some of the bigger-named titles from the past twelve years. I've seen barber shops added, maybe some hair styles, but for the most part, what we get is what we get. I don't like it anymore than anyone else. And I'd like to think developers can do better. I'd like to see developers do better. 

 

A quick quip. Please indulge me. Not sure what happened to, and I paraphrase, "You'll be able to make the females look beastial, too." Except, I don't see anything that looks beastial, at all, and I wonder now if that's just something lost in translation, or if I just have an idea that radically differs from what Yoshi P thinks is beastial. Probably.

[SessionZero]

A quick quip. Please indulge me. Not sure what happened to, and I paraphrase, "You'll be able to make the females look beastial, too." Except, I don't see anything that looks beastial, at all, and I wonder now if that's just something lost in translation, or if I just have an idea that radically differs from what Yoshi P thinks is beastial. Probably.

 

The wording used was something more akin to "succubus", which means something far removed from bestial in my opinion.

[industrythirteen]

A quick quip. Please indulge me. Not sure what happened to, and I paraphrase, "You'll be able to make the females look beastial, too." Except, I don't see anything that looks beastial, at all, and I wonder now if that's just something lost in translation, or if I just have an idea that radically differs from what Yoshi P thinks is beastial. Probably.

 

The wording used was something more akin to "succubus", which means something far removed from bestial in my opinion.

I dunno, man. I still have a really different idea of what I think a succubus, even an FFXIV succubus, looks like.

[Hyrist]

Here's the thing and it was mentioned in the previous thread. A race like Au Ra isn't bringing in a significant player base that wasn't there already. It is more of the same and I see it as a race that is essentially generating hype amongst the existing player base rather than pulling in new folks who don't feel represented in this game's character creation.

 

I would have passed on this game without female roegadyns being added. At this point it is the only races I would consider playing.

 

Its far too early to make any consequential statements about the attraction of any component of Heavensward to new players, because we are not currently at the Heavensward release point. While those can speculate that it is 'more of the same' that depends entirely on the perspective of the recipient. 

 

It is the same in the fact that it is a humanoid race with set variants appealing to a specific aesthetic style that follows the theme of protagonists in the game.

 

It is not the same in the fact that it is the first race featuring such a broad gender variation (size wise), and as of yet unwritten lore with its own in-storyline introduction. It is also the only available player race that can amount to possessing scales.

 

Unfortunately, a lot of what people seem to describe or desire as a new race or option tends imply that what they want is a full on beast-race of some sort, or closer too. Ignoring the lore difficulty aspect of having any race stray too far into beastmen territory, comes the system and writing manner in which such characters would find themselves at odds with such beast-men. (The common beastman insult of "Smoothskins" come to mind.)

 

If we are to get a future race, my preference and recommendation would be of a race that takes the gender-line trends of Au Ra and reverses them - featuring a larger, stronger, perhaps more angular females to their male counterparts, who would then be more demure.

 

However, that is not Au Ra - and I rather like Au Ra as it's presented.