My Observations

[Grott]

But it's pretty much all the same thing that's been said every time the OP made a new thread or when others have made them.

 

Reach out.

 

It doesn't happen for us day one.

 

Someone's not automatically allowing my character into their conversation.

 

All wrapped up in different colored boxes, giftwrap, ribbon, etc.

 

I don't think there's any problem with continuing the message of "We're out there, don't be afraid to walk up to us." The OP may be gone, but new players may have the same issue.

 

Reinforcing the idea that most of us won't mind if you waltz on up and start speaking your mind can't possibly do any harm.

 

Plus, it's just a nice discussion to have to see who else is out there and willing to voice their opinions on how to spread RP. Not like there's any rule against continuing a conversation for the sake of conversation.

 

I also like your use of the word "Necro." I've always thought that was a rad prefix.

[Lilia Lia]

I see it less as "us talking to the OP about their concern" and more "us discussing the OP's concern amongst ourselves."

 

It's important to take things like this seriously if we want to be a welcoming community.

[Grott]

I see it less as "us talking to the OP about their concern" and more "us discussing the OP's concern amongst ourselves."

 

It's important to take things like this seriously if we want to be a welcoming community.

 

Absolutely. OP may be gone, but the issue isn't.

[Kichiro Gunji]

As a super newcomer to the RP Community, just reached out yesterday, already had several welcome replies... someone helped me with a bit of lore and I was able to engage in RP last night long after an RP event had gone. 

 

To be fair, I had to create a character that would indeed reach out to people. However, I find a lot of RPers who are new to a server don't do this and then blame the community for not interacting with their anti-social withdrawn character. 

 

So I hope any other new RPers to their respective community realize that the problem might not be with everyone else, but with the character you create to interact with that community. Nobody is forcing you to be the person who stays away from social hubs or places your character in the corner. You might be anti-social in real life, but I encourage you to explore character personalities that may have an easier time of getting into the RP scene. 

 

Alternative, you can create your anti-social gothic character, but realize you may have to do more work to get involved in others' RP by contacting folks OOCly or what have you.

[Kage]

That sounds a lot like "we're trying to show you that you just haven't met the right people!"

 

But instead, may I suggest you towards threads such as these?

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=10821

 

and

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=10818

 

 

The question I ask you, is this thread supposed to become a thread of chiming in "Me too! I'm a welcoming RPer!"

[Addison]

I just want to speak from a new person perspective as well, because as a new person, if I were looking at this thread and didn't have the experiences I've had, I would be a little put off by the accusations thrown up in this thread.

 

I posted my super boring "Hi, I'm new. Look at me" thread and at first glance, it doesn't look like a lot of people took the time to say hi back, right? Looking at that, the community seems rather closed off and cliquish, right?

 

Not exactly.

 

I received multiple PMs from people welcoming me to the community. I've received I don't know how many tells in game. I've found quite a few linkshells already, and though I don't talk much (not anti-social per say, more like social anxiety maybe?), I say hello, ask people how they're doing and what not and all is good. I privately replied to one of the ads in the Making Connections forum and the RP is fantastic thus far. (I do better one on one or very small groups as opposed to large gatherings) People certainly have reached out to me, and look at my post! It's rather boring.

 

Could I do more? Absolutely. But I'm pretty comfortable where I'm at right now.

 

So to all you newbies reading this and getting put off by what's being said here, heed this advice: The effort you put into connecting with people will have a distinct and direct correlation to what type of return you get. In other words, put in some effort into others, and they will put effort into you.

 

EDIT: And to add, things could always be worse. There are many more insular, cliquish, and downright (dare I say it) toxic RP communities out there, and they are much much worse than what I've seen here so far. I've seen new players literally run off of RP communities before. I've been part of a community so insular, that whenever someone new wishes to join their guild, the first question they get asked is "Who are you and why are you hiding on an alt?"

 

So far, my experiences have been extremely positive. I can't say the same about some other communities.

[GloryRhodes]

Shameless, but relevant, self-promotion.

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=11239

[Grott]

That sounds a lot like "we're trying to show you that you just haven't met the right people!"

 

But instead, may I suggest you towards threads such as these?

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=10821

 

and

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=10818

 

 

The question I ask you, is this thread supposed to become a thread of chiming in "Me too! I'm a welcoming RPer!"

 

The question I would ask in return is, "Does it matter?"

 

We're just having a conversation. Is this not a site to meet like-minded individuals? I get that this thread isn't really "going anywhere" but does that mean we have to retreat into our separate silent corners of the internet? That's not really how connecting with people works. I'm enjoying reading and giving my own input in the thread and others seem to be enjoying the ability to share their stories about being new in the community, and it's helping everyone get an idea of what needs to be done to welcome RPers. We don't need to move threads and yell "IT'S CRUNCH TIME. WHAT ARE YOUR IDEAS?" some times these things can just develop over a naturally flowing discussion.

 

Why do we need to shut it down? You can just not read it anymore. I get that you may feel the need to check in because it's a thread you've posted in before, and you get frustrated that things are being repeated. But that happens. Why is this important enough to post three separate times asking why we're speaking to each other?

[Shuck]

'Nother snip.

 

And another addendum: It also helps keep a recurring issue present in literally every single roleplayer hub (including this one) in focus. When you see something become a pattern, you look into it, regardless of how much you might personally care.

 

Like me, I don't know these people, and I couldn't possibly give less of a shit about cliques, and inner circles, and the myriad of motherfuckers RP'ing in /party, in their houses, or holding a "private" session in a public place (which is hilarious in it's own right).

 

But...I mean, is the goal here really to just shut down communication? Is this a thread you want to see repeated? When do we, as hobbyists, look at what goes on and honestly talk about shit, then? Is it never? Do we want it to be never?

[industrythirteen]

Talking with Addison some, some things I've considered. 

 

• Addison said in the conversation we were having "I don't show up at a bar on friday night and magically expect my friends to appear. I have to call, plan ahead." I hadn't thought of that initially, I snorted, and told her she was right! 
  
• Bars (taverns) are the worst places to meet people IRL (subject to differing opinions, of course.) I tend to go to bars with people I already know. 
  
• In many stories, taverns are where stories begin. Sometimes. They certainly don't stay there in most fantasy settings. Even so, this is the deliberate choice of a single author, where the entire story is contrived from the beginning. Nothing is left to chance, it's all planned. There is no sonder considered, as every actor and event is meant to tell a very specific story. RP, in my experience, does not work like a novel. There are too many variables that are not controllable. We cannot control other people, only our own behavior. We can certainly plan with them, however. 
  

I understand that breaking into RP can be a challenge for new RPers. This isn't anything new, this hasn't changed, and it happens to be an ongoing issue, and there are many reasons why this is, and I don't think this is necessarily isolated to FFXIV. I don't think there is ultimately one solution. I don't blame some folks for being frustrated, nor do I blame them if they haven't figured out what they need to do yet for a solution that works best for them. 

 

For any number of problems that I have to solve daily, sometimes the correct solution for me isn't immediately clear, and it takes some flailing on my part to figure out what I need to do. I think the same can be said for finding RP. I think some expectations need to be tempered, and some self-examination may be required if the problems persists if honest and sincere efforts haven't produced any results. Do I keep doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results? What can I do differently? Have I not thought through what I'm doing thoroughly enough? Have I planned my character to the point that their story is already told before I even begin? Is my character fun for me to play, or do I feel like I'm pulling my own teeth out? Am I entertaining other people? 

 

My FC purposely engages new players for this very reason. The theme is 'starting over.' Bearcave and I want to give them some place to start. However, we ask that folks met us halfway, tell us what they want out of their RP, and we will see what we can do to connect them to other members they might enjoy RPing with. After that, it is up to the player.

[Kellach Woods]

If it's okay to flail about and be frustrated as a new person, why is it okay to shit on 'em for doing so?

[Grott]

If it's okay to flail about and be frustrated as a new person, why is it okay to shit on 'em for doing so?

 

Not really understanding this question. Wouldn't the logical response be along the lines of "You can flail around and be frustrated, but you may get shit on for doing so."?

 

Also, who is shitting on new players here?

[Kellach Woods]

Older threads mostly, this one's been pretty clean.

 

Question was mostly facetious - 'cause this isn't the first time this very same topic's been breached, and every single time it was thinly-veiled attempts at making the new people feel bad for not being able to breach a pretty damn thick veil of established "canon".

 

Hell, I've been here a year and for most of the people here I may as well not exist so.

 

(Also immediately assuming people fear interrupting something important is kinda false, Usually it's more an experience of trying to horn in on some RPz but backs start turnin'.

 

Different situations for different new people.)

[Shuck]

Hell, I've been here a year and for most of the people here I may as well not exist so.

 

Just a year? Bitch, you be trippin'.

 

Anyway, the walls might appear thick, but what's thicker still is the padding of egos. Reaching out to others means admitting you're probably not as cool as you think you are.

 

It means accepting that you don't know what'll happen, and that you might actually be wrong about some shit. Just dead wrong. Totally, completely wrong.

 

And being wrong is not something roleplayers like. They see rules, and think of prisons. That goes for the old guard too, not just new people. The problem's double-sided.

[Kichiro Gunji]

Again, complete newcomer here, so I might be missing a lot of context. But this problem isn't unique to this RP community. If it is indeed a problem.

 

However, why should I want to be involved with a majority of the people here? There are enough that I can get help, there are resources here for me to use to RP with the community and to know where to go. Why should I feel they all acknowledge me and recognize me? Even after 3 years, that seems like a lot of people to make impressions on and keep track of.

[Shuck]

However, why should I want to be involved with a majority of the people here? There are enough that I can get help, there are resources here for me to use to RP with the community and to know where to go. Why should I feel they all acknowledge me and recognize me? Even after 3 years, that seems like a lot of people to make impressions on and keep track of.

 

These are great fucking questions, no lie.

 

I mean, I don't even think these people are particularly helpful, but you raise a great point: Who cares if the RPC doesn't acknowledge you? Why would anyone? This is part of the problem. This need for validation.

 

Also: See, this is why these threads are good, and communication is good. Right here. It's fucking beautiful.

[LimeOfDoom]

I wasn't going to respond to this thread even though it touches on a subject that I find myself frequently seeing on the RPC forums for MMOs but then you fine people went and necro'd it for me and now here I am.  First and foremost to address the OP regardless of the fact that it seems they are lost and will not be returning.  I, too, love spontaneous RP it is my preference but I know why I prefer it and you've yet to give an answer as to why.  I could speculate but that would be less than pointless since the likelihood that you will return to tell us one way or the other seems slim.  So I will share my reason instead, I prefer spontaneous RP because my life is abnormally hectic.  The times where people are normally busy are when I have all the free time in the world and the times when people are normally free to participate in their leisure activity of choice are the times when I find my ability to attend an event or the like the most compromised.  With that said, when I first tried a more structured style of roleplay I found that I was able to enjoy it so my first bit of advice is to try getting out of your RP comfort zone (at your own pace of course) and see if you can't find a happy compromise.  If you have a reason for despising planning of any kind in roleplay you will have to share it because without the reason understanding why you are unwilling to simply send someone a tell asking if they are willing to RP with you in impossible and therefore giving appropriate advice is impossible.

 

The second piece of advice I'd offer you is that when you make a post like this, you are saying that your current experience with the game is not what you'd like it to be and you are asking others to assist you in correcting this.  So, for example, when you say things like, "I greatly appreciate everyone who responded and those who actually did friend me.  Sadly I just can't take the ignoring of my character anymore."  You are doing yourself a disservice because firstly, there a multiple threads now that have proven there are people willing to help you and you present yourself as either oblivious to or disinterested in their efforts to assist you and frankly that's not the way to get people to continue helping you.  I choose that specific quote because of its inherently oxymoronic nature.  In the first sentence you acknowledge and thank people for reaching out to you and then immediately turn around and melodramatically declare that being ignored has become too much for you.  In the interest of not being an asshat I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that while people reached out to and friended you it never ended up yielding any actual RP and that is why you continue to be distressed.

 

I'd like to close off the section of this post specifically dealing with the OP by adding that I would have said more, most of it falling along the lines of suggestions about how to break into a new RP community based on my 16 plus years of RP in MMOs but pretty much everything else I had to say has been said very well by multiple other people in this thread and all the others you've made.  So I genuinely hope you don't feel personally attacked or offended, just trying to point out things that I think may be of use to you should you choose to return.

 

To address the much broader conversation that has developed in this thread I must first commend Lilia and Uther for seeing an opportunity to remind other people who may be struggling with problems similar to the OP and taking the initiative to try and help them as well as the OP.

 

As for the nature of the walls roleplayers put up between themselves and other roleplayers, I first and foremost agree that they are as much an obstacle for the people who put them up as they are for those who they keep out.  I will readily admit to having been guilty of such things myself in the past, but in my defense during this time in my roleplaying experience I was literally 9 to 12 years old.  In an attempt to understand others who create these kinds of barriers I'll share my thoughts on why it was I did it and how I was able to work past the problem.  

 

I started isolating myself from others because I was petrified of doing or saying something wrong.  I was a nine year old who was playing Everquest with my parents controlling when and for how long I could play and I'd find myself regularly feeling like the odd person out because of my young age.  So when I started roleplaying I was desperate to seem like I fit in and I think that is the root of the problem, or it was for me.  When you are roleplaying you the player shouldn't really be worrying about anything, you are inhabiting another person when you are IC and anything that happens during your time IC has no direct bearing on you whatsoever, even if like most writers you put a little bit of yourself into your character you are still not your character.  

 

Now I can understand someone rebutting this point by saying that there is the investment in your character and when you tell stories in a collaborative manner you risk something happen to your character or conflicting with your plans for their story that you cannot abide.  To this I would say so what?  You are omnipotent when it comes to your character, if something goes down during some RP that you aren't cool with, do a small side story to right what was wronged or simply retcon it.  If anyone gives you any guff about it then they are probably a right proper ass and you shouldn't care what they say or think anyway.  The notable exception being that if your character is deeply involved in a storyline with other equally committed parties and you try to change something that affects their characters too, in this instance it is probably best to reach out to those involved and solve the problem together.

 

Now back to fade back into the shadows.  :tonberry:

[Kellach Woods]

Eh, it's just nice to feel wanted I guess and lately in-game ain't been what it's used to be.

 

Doesn't help that I'm kinda stuck in "find interesting RP or just grind your last levels to 50 on BRD/PLD" but that's just me personally.

[Mae]

The question I would ask in return is, "Does it matter?"

 

We're just having a conversation. Is this not a site to meet like-minded individuals? I get that this thread isn't really "going anywhere" but does that mean we have to retreat into our separate silent corners of the internet? That's not really how connecting with people works. I'm enjoying reading and giving my own input in the thread and others seem to be enjoying the ability to share their stories about being new in the community, and it's helping everyone get an idea of what needs to be done to welcome RPers. We don't need to move threads and yell "IT'S CRUNCH TIME. WHAT ARE YOUR IDEAS?" some times these things can just develop over a naturally flowing discussion.

 

Why do we need to shut it down? You can just not read it anymore. I get that you may feel the need to check in because it's a thread you've posted in before, and you get frustrated that things are being repeated. But that happens. Why is this important enough to post three separate times asking why we're speaking to each other?

(Purists are probably going to nitpick that I'm going to tell this story/joke wrong. I don't care, the message I'm trying to convey is there)

 

A man was taking a cruise on a ship. He was up on deck, alone, in the middle of the night and slipped overboard. No-one saw him fall, and the ship sailed out of sight.

 

"Please, God! Save me!" The man prayed. The man tread water for an hour, and then a Coast Guard boat arrived. They tried to pull him on deck, but he resisted.

 

"No! God will save me!" And the Coast Guard boat left.

 

The man tread water for another hour, and a Navy rescue helicopter arrived. They sent down one of those platforms for the man to climb onto so they could hoist him to safety, but he refused to get on it.

 

"God will save me!" And the Navy rescue helicopter left.

 

The man continued to tread water, refusing help from fishing boats, shipping barges, and tankers that passed by. Hours and hours passed before, exhausted, the man drowned. When he arrived in Heaven, the man stormed up to God.

 

"Why didn't you save me?!"

 

And God looked at the man.

 

"... Who do you think sent the Coast Guard, Navy helicopter, the fishing boats, the shipping barges, and that oil tanker?"

 

 

This is the relationship that some of us who were there when this thread was originally posted had with the author. Someone who came to the community on a couple occasions asking for help, but either didn't put in much effort (look at the posting dates) or snubbed those who reached out. And then sort of turned around and blamed the community.

 

It's fine that people want to discuss that it's sometimes hard to break into RP. And it's fine that people want to offer advice to help others break into RP. It's just that those who are aware of the actual context of the OP would rather see this particular thread fall into obscurity and not be necro'd. 

 

That's all.

[Grott]

(Purists are probably going to nitpick that I'm going to tell this story/joke wrong. I don't care, the message I'm trying to convey is there)

 

A man was taking a cruise on a ship. He was up on deck, alone, in the middle of the night and slipped overboard. No-one saw him fall, and the ship sailed out of sight.

 

"Please, God! Save me!" The man prayed. The man tread water for an hour, and then a Coast Guard boat arrived. They tried to pull him on deck, but he resisted.

 

"No! God will save me!" And the Coast Guard boat left.

 

The man tread water for another hour, and a Navy rescue helicopter arrived. They sent down one of those platforms for the man to climb onto so they could hoist him to safety, but he refused to get on it.

 

"God will save me!" And the Navy rescue helicopter left.

 

The man continued to tread water, refusing help from fishing boats, shipping barges, and tankers that passed by. Hours and hours passed before, exhausted, the man drowned. When he arrived in Heaven, the man stormed up to God.

 

"Why didn't you save me?!"

 

And God looked at the man.

 

"... Who do you think sent the Coast Guard, Navy helicopter, the fishing boats, the shipping barges, and that oil tanker?"

 

 

This is the relationship that some of us who were there when this thread was originally posted had with the author. Someone who came to the community on a couple occasions asking for help, but either didn't put in much effort (look at the posting dates) or snubbed those who reached out. And then sort of turned around and blamed the community.

 

It's fine that people want to discuss that it's sometimes hard to break into RP. And it's fine that people want to offer advice to help others break into RP. It's just that those who are aware of the actual context of the OP would rather see this particular thread fall into obscurity and not be necro'd. 

 

That's all.

 

Good joke. Everybody laugh.

 

No, seriously, it's a great analogy, and I get that the dude who started this thread is probably just some bratty dickhead.

 

But we've completely left him in the dust. He's no longer relevant to the conversation about new RPers looking for friends. At this point, he's more the exception than the rule. I get why no one who tried to help this dingdong wants to see his thread brought up again, but I don't know what to tell you. We're here, we're conversing, and it was going pretty well until it became a conversation about the reason for the conversation.

 

If we're being honest, this could be moved to another thread. But I'm very lazy and only partially interested in this to begin with, and I'm already here.

[Verad]

 

But...I mean, is the goal here really to just shut down communication? Is this a thread you want to see repeated? When do we, as hobbyists, look at what goes on and honestly talk about shit, then? Is it never? Do we want it to be never?

 

Can I say yes, or is this rhetorical?

[Shuck]

Can I say yes, or is this rhetorical?

 

You can say pretty much whatever you want, but like a lot situations in life, one of these answers is going to be totally wrong.

 

Eh, it's just nice to feel wanted I guess and lately in-game ain't been what it's used to be.

 

This, however, is productive. Why. Why do you want to feel wanted? What makes you feel unwanted? Let's get uncomfortably specific here.

[Verad]

Can I say yes, or is this rhetorical?

 

You can say pretty much whatever you want, but like a lot situations in life, one of these answers is going to be totally wrong.

 

Then yes, as close to never as humanly possible. If nothing else I'd like something like the RP equivalent of a "Have you tried restarting your modem?" to provide to players having these complaints.

[Addison]

Can I say yes, or is this rhetorical?

 

You can say pretty much whatever you want, but like a lot situations in life, one of these answers is going to be totally wrong.

 

Then yes, as close to never as humanly possible. If nothing else I'd like something like the RP equivalent of a "Have you tried restarting your modem?" to provide to players having these complaints.

 

Restarting your modem won't always fix internet issues, and sitting in brooding silence and just accepting things for the way they are won't always fix issues in a roleplay community.

[Verad]

 

Restarting your modem won't always fix internet issues, and sitting in brooding silence and just accepting things for the way they are won't always fix issues in a roleplay community.

 

Yes, and when that happens, it is perfectly reasonable to post about it. I would nevertheless like to minimize the amount of people who need to post about it as much as possible. Because as other people in this particular shambling corpse have noted, sometimes you get people who are clearly posting without having tried restarting the metaphorical modem.

 

And, of course, talking about things for which there can be no clear solution in a voluntary hobby with a fluid and decentralized population base isn't always going to fix issues either. But it can make people unnecessarily unreasonable at each other about it.