How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy')

[ArmachiA]

The only time anything is forced into anything is saying "You need to rp the way I want and with me for reasons." Disagreement isn't forcing anything, however trying to get you to play in the same sandbox as me is forcing the issue. We can all walk away stating our opinions, rping with who we want to rp with - who agree with our point of view - without stating the community needs to act a certain way even if we disagree on the way the how the community "should" act.

 

There's plenty of room for ALL kinds of rpers here, just because we don't agree, doesn't mean we can't rp peacefully

[Gone.]

This is incorrect and takes away from your whole dialogue.

 

It... really isn't?

 

Denying a roleplayer's IC existence is something that will always have OOC implications, plain and simple. To ignore this is a sign of someone that doesn't understand the power and effects our words can have on another and I suggest that anyone who does really needs to pull back and think about what they're saying before it comes out of their mouth.

 

I'm more interested in the following: It's one thing for people to make claims about certain characters, and to write them off as insane or delusional or whatever. I'm not one-hundred percent on-board with that particular choice but I recognize it's a valid one.

 

What do you, however, when the player proves it through some metaphysical means? Some dimensional traveller, to use Klin's example, leaps into another Final Fantasy setting in front of you and comes back with Shantotto. Somebody claiming to be a primal manifests as such in front of you. For the more hardline lore-hounds, a WHM casts Succor or Holy. In short, something that would have a tangible effect on the world and can't be denied by a simple claim of insanity.

 

It's possible to retcon the matter and say that the person only said they did these things, and it didn't actually happen, but that's very much not letting the character lead; it's making an OOC judgment call in the moment and declaring that a fact stated by another player isn't actually a fact. On the other hand, taking the claim on faith and reacting to it means having to grapple with denying it IC at a later date. How do you address this problem?

 

I think addressing a situation like this really depends on the context. I would never deny a White Mage using something like Holy to protect a skeptic in the wild from one of the countless dangers of Eorzea, but to use those powers as a glorified parlor trick is another story. White Magic is currently a taboo; that's not the kind of attention a White Mage wants, at least not one that acquired their powers through legitimate means. In this case, I'd think it'd be better to politely point out these lore points to the player in question. Turn it into a discussion that can better their understanding of the game world as opposed to going straight for blind hostility.

 

As for me? If it's not harming anyone, then frankly it's none of my business, or anyone else's for that matter. There's very little I won't roll with and my exceptions are reserved only for those situations that are just so far-fetched that they enter the realm of F-grade fan fiction from the deepest, darkest depths of the internet. Either that or it's someone approaching a sensitive subject in a disrespectful and insensitive sort of manner (i.e. sexual assault, LGBT issues, etc.)

 

Because my particular interpretation of the lore doesn't make room for the idea that PCs can be white mages (though I haven't actually encountered white mages in-character yet, nor would Kale really know what they are).

 

I'm not going to start shit over it, so likewise, I shouldn't expect to have a different interpretation of the lore forced on me where PCs -are- allowed to be white mages.

 

I'm not going to force you to see my view on it - which is, in lore says only Padjal can be WHMs, are you going to force me to see yours - which is game mechanics means we should be able to play whatever we like?

 

Having your interpretation is fine, but when it creates a hostile, dismissive environment, when it flat out ignores in-game dialog, that's when I'm going to take issue.

 

No, seriously, saying that someone can't be a White Mage goes straight against what's said towards the end of the first job quest:

 

 

 

 

Not exactly flattering for a community that has this tendency to place far too much value on pre-determined questlines over more important things.

 

 

Please tell me how I, someone who believes 100% that PCs cannot be White Mages, and you, someone who 100% believes it doesn't matter can come together and come to an agreement beyond going to our respective corners and leaving each other to rp in peace.

 

You could start by sitting down and asking questions. Try to understand the why behind that choice, the subtext it's intended to build and how it shapes the character in question as they evolve through subsequent events and interactions.

 

I mean, isn't that what storytelling is all about, anyway?

[Aduu Avagnar]

can we not turn this into yet another WHM thread please?

 

this is about responding to RP that people don't agree with. Which can, and does happen. Not about interpretations of lore regarding the Jobs.

 

if you don't like the way the RP is going, back off, leave it be. Don't kick a shit and cause an argument. People will have disagreements.

[Altitis Acquired]

can we not turn this into yet another WHM thread please?

 

this is about responding to RP that people don't agree with. Which can, and does happen. Not about interpretations of lore regarding the Jobs.

 

if you don't like the way the RP is going, back off, leave it be. Don't kick a shit and cause an argument. People will have disagreements.

 

Exactly this!

[Askier]

You gotta live and let live baby.

 

People are here to rp and have a good time. And we all have different versions of "a good time."

 

Some people love dat ERP, so let 'em.

 

Some people love to have deep, complex plots that span months of real world time. *Stares wide eyed and Roen and Nero*

 

Some people just want to kick ass and take names, hence why the Grindstone is so huge all the time.

 

Point is, everyone is writing basically fan fiction, and you will not agree with everyone's fan fiction.  Honestly, I think Warren has a great idea. 

 

For example, if I come across someone who doesn't believe something my character has done and calls them a looney IC, I'm just going to rp they are drunk or disillusion and kindly excuse myself IC from them.  No need to throw an OOC issue.

 

And if someone makes an outlandish claim, like saying a bunch of Garlean Airships blew up Ul'dah or something and I'm in Ul'dah, which in my universe is fine, I'm simply gonna have my character look around and shrug and roleplay that my character thinks the other character is crazy. I'm still getting to roleplay a brief scene but I'm not attacking anyone's version or their story OOC.  People have a right to write their fan fic, so let them.  Just cause they wrote it, don't mean you gotta treat it as the golden writ from the hand of God themself.  RP fun. It's a game.  Its made of 1's and 0's.  It could all get deleted tomorrow by a solar flare.

 

So have with it and don't waste your time hatin'.

[Warren Castille]

This is incorrect and takes away from your whole dialogue.

 

It... really isn't?

 

Denying a roleplayer's IC existence is something that will always have OOC implications, plain and simple. To ignore this is a sign of someone that doesn't understand the power and effects our words can have on another and I suggest that anyone who does really needs to pull back and think about what they're saying before it comes out of their mouth.

 

Except that's still wrong. Not every disagreement ICly is some staggering social commentary. Read what I quoted again: OP makes it sound like EVERY instance of someone grousing with you ICly is someone being assblasted OOCly. That's wrong, plain and simple.

 

If you're so sensitive that any IC criticism is automatically assumed to come from a place of player-to-player contention, you should reassess the reasons you're RPing.

 

Edit, attempt to clarify: Warren's been given a lot of shit in RP. I've also been told by one particular stick in the mud that my concept was wrong (Can we stop using Lion-O as an example? He's a troll, it is known). I've been slapped ICly for... whatever reason. I've been spit on. I've had people pick fights. All of this was IC, and not once did I presume that it was because of OOC emotions.

 

To assume that IC=OOC means that you assume your character concept is so solid and so correct that no one would ever take umbrage with it. This is the first error: Someone doesn't believe I'm an Immortal Flame, so clearly they're butthurt OOCly and reflecting that ICly. Someone doesn't believe I fell in love with a Padjal and learned Succor in the wild, so anything they say is wrong. Someone doesn't believe X about my concept, so clearly the backlash is because Y.

 

That's wrong. It's an incorrect assumption that dismisses not only IC interaction ("This guy is clearly just a troll") but it also makes you look really, really bad OOCly, as in "This person is incapable of accepting that their story stretches elements of the plot so thin that it collapses immersion for anyone approaching them."

 

If my backstory is that Warren is the sole survivor of a daring Garlean raid on Ul'dah that killed thousands and he is imbued with the souls of all of the deceased and he once fought the new Emperor when they were kids and that's the REAL reason Garlemald is invading, I can't just assume people who deny that are haters. That's so arrogant, so colossally stuck up, my brain can't even fathom it.

[Kellach Woods]

I've yet to see anyone who completely said fuck the lore not being disrespectful towards anyone who is lore compliant. Nor have I seen a special snowflake who didn't want to lord it over other RPers either.

 

That's great if you have encountered these people. I haven't.

[Warren Castille]

I've yet to see anyone who completely said fuck the lore not being disrespectful towards anyone who is lore compliant. Nor have I seen a special snowflake who didn't want to lord it over other RPers either.

 

That's great if you have encountered these people. I haven't.

 

That's probably the most insightful thing about this all. By and large, people bumping heads on this won't ever run into one another. It's not really an issue, but it could be, so we've all got to get our dander up about it.

 

PEOPLE I'VE NEVER MET WHO I MIGHT NEVER MEET MIGHT NOT APPROVE OF ME, THE HORROR

[Desu Nee]

At this point I'm actually confused what we're talking at all. I don't mean to detract from the talk, but honestly, what ARE we talking about?

[Aaron]

At this rate it's going to get to people arguing over why everyone can teleport because not everyone can do it in reality. 

 

Or why are you wearing the WoD gear.

 

Or why do you have a demon brick following you.

 

Or why are you wearing dem earrings. 

 

If someone wants to be a WHM IC. unless they /explicitly/ involve you. (Rps something like "X casts the genuine Holy around the two showing they are a true WHM) then does it really matter? 

 

Odds are really that

 

- You probably won't even see them enough after to even care what they rp as.

 

- If you do see them more and rp with them then you like the person OOC enough to not care.

 

- You'll realize they don't really care what you think they'll rp a WHM anyway. 

 

All in all it's their $15 a month. They can do what the hell they want. It's one of the reasons Aaron IC knows a fucking Miqote monk/battlemage that wields all elements like the avatar and is also a master swordsman (despite not once ever using a sword IC. Said person just said they was because Aaron got so known IC to be a badass with a blade.) at what? 23? 

 

Is it ridiculous? Oh yeah.

 

Is it the the point I refuse to ICly fight them? Yep it's to the point Aaron readily allows them to hit him. All he does is dodge.

 

Am I going to stop them from rping like that? Nope. Not my sub, and there's plenty people that will rp with them despite me not going that route. So my opinion is the minority. 

 

Sometimes people need to stop with finding every little thing that isn't lore accurate and just roll with it. Not like if you do a dice roll that WHM who's in lore is so powerful is gonna wreck you're simple gladiator in a scrap.

[No Longer Exists]

*Peeks out from under his hat* 

 

So....when did we break the 4th wall? It has been my understanding since the dawn of online roleplaying that what was once called "metagaming" was a societal no-no.

 

Metagaming In laymen's terms, the use of information outside of the parameters of the game to affect the game itself. The reverse being the use of in game information to affect the world outside of the game.

 

This is something that every RPer should be made aware of and generally is. I did a quick google search for "Roleplaying, mixing IC and OOC" and was immediately gifted with rprepository.com and its statement about the distinction between being in character and out of character.

 

The following statement may sound harsh and I apologize for all the hurt feels it may cause:

 

 

You are not your character, this is a game. If you are feeling real, legitimate, emotional anguish over the events and activities surrounding your character in this game; I suggest you seek counselling.

 

 

Why did I say that? Because I am afraid that if you are feeling these things about a programmer generated sequence of code and pixel, then you have "moved into the castle in the sky".

 

We all have a certain level of attachment to our characters, we built them, we nurtured them, we watch them grow. However, most of us also know to how to separate. Some do not. If people want to hear more about this from me, please let me know in PM and I'll ramble about it in another thread. For the moment, allow me to return to the topic at hand.

 

In my not-so-humble opinion (and some may already be aware of this facet of my personality for better or worse), if I don't like your story, your details, or even the way you misspell every other word? I excuse myself and never come back. Plain and simple. 

 

"But Hatter? Why would you do that?"

 

Simple, it's my time and I'll use it the way I want to. 

 

"But Hatter! That's rude!" 

 

I agree. It is rude. It is unfair. Equally, it is unfair to me to sit on a game and stare at a chat box full of things I do not care about nor have any interest in for hours. Hours I could spend doing something I enjoy.

 

And that's the point. Frankly, there's never been an obligation involved in any MMO community or otherwise that dictates getting along. It is a conscious choice and as a choice, it has the capacity to go the other direction. Each individual must remain aware of that conscious choice that each other individual makes to put up with your particular brand of fantasy and be grateful/respectful of it. That is the crux of socialization. No one is required to associate with anyone. I've said this before and I will say it again: Appreciate the attention that you get.

 

As for this, that, and the other thing: See previous message. It all applies. Being polite, unfortunately, is in the eye of the beholder. You can't dictate how someone will take your behavior, ever. You can only hope for the best.

 

I'm Black Hat......and I apologize.

 

Cheers.

[Warren Castille]

At this point I'm actually confused what we're talking at all. I don't mean to detract from the talk, but honestly, what ARE we talking about?

 

I'm attempting to point out that presuming IC-feedback as OOC-saltiness is a fallacy, and I'm doing a poor job of it!

 

OP posits that somehow he knew a detractor was OOC-bristling and "lied" to say it was IC-only. Not knowing the circumstances or conversation that's entirely possible, but assuming it's true every time is incorrect.

[Desu Nee]

Funny note that, because Quki is a talented thaumaturge and is not even 20. I'm pretty sure some people would be bothered by that, with or even without context.

[Desu Nee]

Regarding Black Hat position, you definetly have some points, but Mixing of IC and OOC is, like all aspects of life, and human personality in general, not a bad thing. It's true that one should separate fiction from reality, and being overly affected by fiction isn't a VERY healthy thing, but to propose, and raise a banner of complete distinction of the two universes is wrong.

 

We built our characters, we watch them grow and interact, and sometimes, the stories we write or live affect us. Because again, it may be fiction, but a fiction purpose is more than just give us a timesink. A history can make us laugh, make us sad, make us feel awesome. In many ways, we are living that, even if not as a blatant self insert, and the immersion factor can be as good as in a book, and I highly doubt one can really enjoy a written story in it's entirety without at least without immersion yourself a bit in the story.

 

So no, I disagree the point that IC and OOC merge is a inherently bad thing. As many say, we are writing and living a fanfiction, and I care little if it's a bunch of codes, and graphics. What matters is the story, by that logic a book is nothing more than a bunch of codes and paper.

[Aaron]

Funny note that, because Quki is a talented thaumaturge and is not even 20. I'm pretty sure some people would be bothered by that, with or even without context.

No personally the age doesn't bother me. You can be 5 for all I care. Natural talent exists in varying quantities.

 

I think I worded my post wrong. What I meant was the person would randomly say they suddenly could use this and that when they saw fit.

 

When I first met them all they could do was punch stuff hard. I know this for a fact because we constantly rped and gave each other a glimpse of our skills.

 

A month later, it's suddenly their a master of every element. And also a master swordsman. 

 

Maybe im not explaining it good but yeah. I thiught it was inconsistent.

[Kage]

The point in which people "will walk away" from certain RP isn't just a person's character. It could be -how- the character is played. Does the player just do whatever they want which makes others feel that the RP is too erratic? Are they inconsistent? Are they like me who tends to get moody and burns bridges until there's nothing left? DID I DO THAT RIGHT WARREN

 

Do they start trying to make IC decisions for your character and then also keep complaining about it OOCly?

 

If you don't think you can get along, it is better for everyone involved to not have to put up with it. Everyone's time is precious, why get upset about what someone thinks?

 

I've probably interacted with someone whose some people here -would- think was the most snowflakey/bending/orbreaking lore concept ever. I initially wanted to dismiss them and their character but I found the idea fun. They didn't present it in a way that I thought was "wow wtf just no." I played with it, had fun, the end. I could also have had Kage simply dismissed the notion and thought they should be taken away for their safety and others'.

 

The ball stops when you are definitely being OOCly fucked over. But I've only ever seen that when some people thought that characters defending a barmaid who was being harassed by someone (dropping glasses all over the place) were OOC "white knights" and that it was taken OOC.

[Desu Nee]

Funny note that, because Quki is a talented thaumaturge and is not even 20. I'm pretty sure some people would be bothered by that, with or even without context.

No personally the age doesn't bother me. You can be 5 for all I care. Natural talent exists in varying quantities.

 

I think I worded my post wrong. What I meant was the person would randomly say they suddenly could use this and that when they saw fit.

 

When I first met them all they could do was punch stuff hard. I know this for a fact because we constantly rped and gave each other a glimpse of our skills.

 

A month later, it's suddenly their a master of every element. And also a master swordsman. 

 

Maybe im not explaining it good but yeah. I thiught it was inconsistent.

Well yeah it is. Don't worry, this ain't a snipe.

[Cavistus]

I've been accused on multiple occasions of passive-aggressively denouncing another player's character by accosting them IC. And to some degree, I can understand why, but Allister is a painfully mundane person that has been known to be an asshole, a bigot, and mildly racist.

 

Allister once overheard an individual in the Quicksand claim they killed people to devour their souls, and so he openly laughed and said they were full of themself. I was then hit by a barrage of OOC tells from their friend, exclaiming that I should "learn about someone's character before passing judgement on them like that".

 

On many occasions, Allister has made snide remarks to a group of people who literally lick each other's bodies in public. He'll also comment at people who are dressed in nothing but strings, as well as people who are dressed head-to-toe in full battle armor.

 

I had to explain to them in detail that it was my character who was passing judgement, not me as a player. Because that's the truth.

 

If someone were to walk into a tavern and start seriously discussing killing people and devouring their souls, I'd honestly be surprised if everyone in the room completely ignored that.

 

If a couple were to start making out, it's all too common for a passerby to shout out "get a room!"

 

Allister is "that guy".

 

As a result, he's gotten the shit kicked out of him on multiple occasions for his loud mouth. Allister is almost the polar opposite of how I act in real life, so it's actually a ton of fun to roleplay as... when people can separate IC and OOC.

 

If someone's character gets insulted in RP and they personally take that insult in the same way it was intended at their character, they probably inserted way too much of themself into their character.

[Warren Castille]

In my experiences, the people who get the most defensive over these topics are the people who are most aware they're taking big liberties with things.

 

[Hammersmith]

In my experiences, the people who get the most defensive over these topics are the people who are most aware they're taking big liberties with things.

 

 

 

This is sometimes the case.  Sometimes it's someone who is really, really full of themself and can't stand to be/don't think anyone deserves to challenge them.  Which explains why they take the liberties and ignore the idea of strife/challenge.

 

Both cases are pretty terrible and take a lot of work to "fix", work I'm not interested in investing in someone I just met in a walk up RP.  I'm doing this for fun, not to be your pet therapist.

 

That said, what do I do when I hit someone who's dwelling outside the realm I consider acceptable?  First: I keep away from them.  Not my buisness, I can choose to guide my IC interaction away from such realms.  I'm a player and the author, I'm not just hitchhiking on my char's view and I'm not powerless. I can make decisions OOC that affect IC because Shit Can Be Not Worth Dealing With.

 

This is called being responsible.

 

It gets more complicated later, like when someone insists on continuing to be in your orbit and continues to ignore what you consider to be tactful play.

 

That's where you tell them OOCly to please go.  You disengage them, make it clear the differences make this Not Fun.  If they keep trying to crowd in without respecting what you are looking for in RP, you circle your wagon of friends and burn the bridge.

 

Most people? Most sane people? Understand the need to adapt and respect.  They'll shift or already be within the realm of reason.

 

Some people don't want to, and that's fine, they can go full Goku Space Wizard Paladin Unicorn with the 500 others.  There IS a place for everyone.  Just a matter of finding where yours is.

 

Passive agressive never works.  It just causes drama.  Being direct is hard too, since it's unsubtle and people take it personally, and it's really hard to say "Man. No. I don't like playing with you. Please, go away." without someone assuming it's an attack and a hostile cirtique.

 

Which is part of the liability of dealing with Humanity at large, I guess.

 

I have a large amount of flex in my tolerance.  You're super special unique snowflake ninja Lord of the East who's secretly a king? Fine.  My guy isn't going to swallow that line, and he's going to assume you're lying.  Because he's an asshole.  And it can be hilarious to see the interaction there.

 

The minute you start yelling at me OOC to respect your Royal Authority, or your millions of Gill, or your Godlike Powers that Are Unique and Special and Better than I Am, well.

 

I got an ignore button and a "power off" button to boot.

[V'aleera]

In my experiences, the people who get the most defensive over these topics are the people who are most aware they're taking big liberties with things.

 

 

This post is constructive, positive, and useful to the discussion at hand.

 

Mod note by FreelanceWizard: User was warned for this post (section 1, minor, intentionally provocative in a negative manner). If you don't agree with someone's opinion, feel free to refute it, but sarcastic sniping is not acceptable.

[Flickering Ember]

At this point I'm actually confused what we're talking at all. I don't mean to detract from the talk, but honestly, what ARE we talking about?

 

I'm attempting to point out that presuming IC-feedback as OOC-saltiness is a fallacy, and I'm doing a poor job of it!

 

OP posits that somehow he knew a detractor was OOC-bristling and "lied" to say it was IC-only. Not knowing the circumstances or conversation that's entirely possible, but assuming it's true every time is incorrect.

 

This is so important to me as a RP subject that several times I've contemplated making its own thread. I know exactly what you are talking about, Warren, and I've witnessed it soooo many times throughout the years. Most of my experiences have come through friends, who RP with X person then make presumptions about the player based on RP in OOC channels.

 

People always state not crossing IC and OOC as being the number one rule, and yet people are doing it constantly. They don't realize they are doing it. This is a really good example of how you can unwittingly cross that border.

 

Just don't make assumptions ever about a player based on what or how they RP. That is not only IC/OOC crossing, but it's an example of poor communication.

[Verad]

In my experiences, the people who get the most defensive over these topics are the people who are most aware they're taking big liberties with things.

 

 

 

I'm not sure how this is a revelation. They're the ones that get the most crap for it. They're the ones who get targeted by shaming blogs, who tend to get "constructive" tells from strangers on a regular basis, who have to worry about "If I reveal this thing that I've put some thought into, are they just going to write my character off as crazy? Am I going to lose somebody I've been RPing with for a while?"

 

This is neither baseless, nor provocative. It's all quite true. Why do you make it sound like a mark against them?

[Hammersmith]

 

Just don't make assumptions ever about a player based on what or how they RP. That is not only IC/OOC crossing, but it's an example of poor communication.

 

Oh man this.

 

I have had a longtime stalker/creephat go nuclear weirdo on me because they assumed I was, mentally, Hammersmith.  And they kept coming back to start shit about it because they thought I needed to be fought and destroyed and "kicked out of every RP group they were ever a part of" to quote something from years ago that I still chuckle at.  

 

I got called satan, , a sociopath, and just an asshole. They recently saw me on FF14 enjoying myself at a Fate and started the fire up again, adding other things Hammer doesn't do, but that they assumed evil people must do, like calling me a bigot and a misogynist. I am Evil Being to them, because I play a char who's not shiney, happy, and nice.

 

I am a lot of things but man, I am not not all of the above.  I am my own person, separate from my Char and some people -do not know the difference-.

 

Thankfully: Ignore button, report feature and having a lot of emotional resilience as well as a lot of pity for someone getting that worked up about something That Is Not. I hope they get help, that kind of thing normally comes from a really dark place that needs support to get out of.

[SunTzu7]

Generally, if RP descends into a massive OOC argument about various aspects, then I start eyeing the emergency exit.

 

I love getting into arguments, but not really while RP's actively going on. Hit me up later for arguments.

 

Also if RP doesn't agree with me (see for example, futa lala's. No, don't ask. Context doesn't help.), then I just basically go 'NOPE.' and leave. Sometimes I'll be polite and wait a little after making my excuses.