How to properly react to RP you don't like (or 'Punting the Puppy')

[Edda]

In crisis core at the end Cloud was fully healthy on top of the train with no signs of mako poisoning. Yet at the beginning of FF7 he was a vegetable in a wheel chair found by Tifa.

 

In FF7 all the remnants were dead. In Advent Children suddenly 3 more equipped with cell phones guns and bikes appear. Does that suddenly mean lore wise remnants weren't all dead?

 

Way off topic, but what? You're way off on your VII continuity and lore. Cloud wasn't a vegetable until way later in the story, not the beginning, and three new characters from Advent Children are not remnants from original story, they're manifestations of Sephiroth's will in the lifestream.

Cloud was in a vegetable-like state up until the events leading to Zack's death. Once he died Cloud was... magically better! And jumping on trains and shit! And then he vegetable'd again with the whole wheelchair fiasco but seriously now

 

/derail

[allgivenover]

Cloud was in a vegetable-like state up until the events leading to Zack's death. Once he died Cloud was... magically better! And jumping on trains and shit! And then he vegetable'd again with the whole wheelchair fiasco but seriously now

 

/derail

 

/re-derail

 

There's no hole in the story, the ending to Crisis Core is months before VII. Cloud was already coming out of his vegetative state by the end of it, that's more than enough time for him to recover and start his crazy identity crisis.

 

Not here to argue the merits of the story, but "being healthy at the end of Crisis Core and in a wheelchair at the start of VII" and the children being remnants is way way off and not examples of SE making retcons.

 

/end-derail

[Warren Castille]

NERDS.

 

/redererail

 

:cactuar:

[Kage]

Everyone talks about lore-breaking stuff and I haven't actually seen any. Lore-bending, yes. Lore breaking, no....

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Everyone talks about lore-breaking stuff and I haven't actually seen any. Lore-bending, yes. Lore breaking, no....

 

I'm a Garlean that uses magic. A pure-blooded Garlean. Fight me.

[No Longer Exists]

One rather annoying thing that happened back on CoH's official forums for the Virtue server is that the "lore-strict" group decided to never RP with the "lore-lenient" group, and so the lore-lenient group decided to troll and mock the lore-strict group whenever possible. The two groups never had discussions like these to try to reconcile and find common ground. That's... not really helpful or beneficial, in my mind. There's room enough for everyone, and there are stories that can be told without even so much as getting close to a lore boundary.

 

I remember that! The cold stares in Pocket D and the pants-off dance-offs, scathing personal attacks and outright cruelty on both sides. Really annoying/amusing stuff but beneath that was some deep, dark animosity. It made a lot of people, even some heavy RPers back off and go hide in their SG bases which really drove a dagger into the heart of the community. It didn't "kill" anything per se, but I know it strained a lot of people I played with.

 

I, personally, am not one for being lore-strict, despite my inherent desire to see a unified field theory for RP. Much of that is due to seeing what Freelancer described right here and how damaging it was.

 

/rerail

[Aaron]

In crisis core at the end Cloud was fully healthy on top of the train with no signs of mako poisoning. Yet at the beginning of FF7 he was a vegetable in a wheel chair found by Tifa.

 

In FF7 all the remnants were dead. In Advent Children suddenly 3 more equipped with cell phones guns and bikes appear. Does that suddenly mean lore wise remnants weren't all dead?

 

Way off topic, but what? You're way off on your VII continuity and lore. Cloud wasn't a vegetable until way later in the story, not the beginning, and three new characters from Advent Children are not remnants from original story, they're manifestations of Sephiroth's will in the lifestream.

Its been a while with the wheel chair part so i probably messed that up. Yeah but no, the three guys were Remnants. Kadaj even said it.

 

Cloud - "I guess a remnant wouldn't really know."

 

^ implying he's known about them in the past. Aka ff7

 

Kadaj - "So what if I'm a puppet? Once upon a time, you were too!"

 

^ basically saying it and agreeing he was a remnant.

[Melkire]

Everyone talks about lore-breaking stuff and I haven't actually seen any. Lore-bending, yes. Lore breaking, no....

 

I'm a Garlean that uses magic. A pure-blooded Garlean. Fight me.

 

I moonlight as a deceased Garlean major who was resurrected when a dark ritual ripped his soul back from the void and shoved it into a corpse alongside the soul of a hedonistic scion of House Dartancours, thereby creating what is, in effect, an undead zombie-esque smoke monster worthy of LOST with an eye that see a person's aether, a telepathic connection linking said zombie to others of his ilk in a manner reminiscent of a hivemind, and the difficult-to-explain gift of setting aflame any metal he might touch (FIRE SWORDS, F*** YEAH).

 

Oh, and he bleeds a black ooze that resembles oil.

 

I completely understand that many folks will not want to RP anywhere near this character, and would rather pretend this character doesn't exist. That's fine with me.

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Kadaj's quote was more in reference to himself and Cloud both existing as a legacy of mako experimentation. Can we avoid derailing posts, please? <3

[Aaron]

Sorry! Lol.

[Kage]

Everyone talks about lore-breaking stuff and I haven't actually seen any. Lore-bending, yes. Lore breaking, no....

 

I'm a Garlean that uses magic. A pure-blooded Garlean. Fight me.

He's a walking ________________.

[Harmonixer]

Everyone talks about lore-breaking stuff and I haven't actually seen any. Lore-bending, yes. Lore breaking, no....

 

I'm a Garlean that uses magic. A pure-blooded Garlean. Fight me.

 

 

I moonlight as a deceased Garlean major who was resurrected when a dark ritual ripped his soul back from the void and shoved it into a corpse alongside the soul of a hedonistic scion of House Dartancours, thereby creating what is, in effect, an undead zombie-esque smoke monster worthy of LOST with an eye that see a person's aether, a telepathic connection linking said zombie to others of his ilk in a manner reminiscent of a hivemind, and the difficult-to-explain gift of setting aflame any metal he might touch (FIRE SWORDS, F*** YEAH).

 

Oh, and he bleeds a black ooze that resembles oil.

 

I completely understand that many folks will not want to RP anywhere near this character, and would rather pretend this character doesn't exist. That's fine with me.

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Kadaj's quote was more in reference to himself and Cloud both existing as a legacy of mako experimentation. Can we avoid derailing posts, please? <3

 

 

 

I read this a few times. Then I read it again. Is this serious? Forgive me for not being in the know. I actually want to know!

[Melkire]

Everyone talks about lore-breaking stuff and I haven't actually seen any. Lore-bending, yes. Lore breaking, no....

 

I'm a Garlean that uses magic. A pure-blooded Garlean. Fight me.

 

 

I moonlight as a deceased Garlean major who was resurrected when a dark ritual ripped his soul back from the void and shoved it into a corpse alongside the soul of a hedonistic scion of House Dartancours, thereby creating what is, in effect, an undead zombie-esque smoke monster worthy of LOST with an eye that see a person's aether, a telepathic connection linking said zombie to others of his ilk in a manner reminiscent of a hivemind, and the difficult-to-explain gift of setting aflame any metal he might touch (FIRE SWORDS, F*** YEAH).

 

Oh, and he bleeds a black ooze that resembles oil.

 

I completely understand that many folks will not want to RP anywhere near this character, and would rather pretend this character doesn't exist. That's fine with me.

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Kadaj's quote was more in reference to himself and Cloud both existing as a legacy of mako experimentation. Can we avoid derailing posts, please? <3

 

 

 

I read this a few times. Then I read it again. Is this serious? Forgive me for not being in the know. I actually want to know!

 

https://wiki.ffxiv-roleplayers.com/pages/Rotunda_Crow

 

The wiki entry is about seven months out of date, but the character is still around.

[Kage]

Rotunda crow is just an annoying piece of shite Kage wishes he had personally killed.

[Harmonixer]

Damn son, I don't think I was actually prepared to take that in.

 

I have no negative or positive things to say on it. It is very interesting though! Thank you.

[ShoggMommy]

https://wiki.ffxiv-roleplayers.com/pages/Rotunda_Crow

 

The wiki entry is about seven months out of date, but the character is still around.

 

This had me laughing so hard... in class. I should stop being a bad student.

 

I'm not sure how C'sin would react to that char.

[Chris Ganale]

Everyone talks about lore-breaking stuff and I haven't actually seen any. Lore-bending, yes. Lore breaking, no....

 

I'll do you one better, Franz.

 

 

James Reilly, or "Ghost", is a member of SeeD who fell through a crack in time and space during the events of Time Compression in FF8 and landed in Eorzea a year or two after the Calamity. He has three modern-ish firearms, ammunition for same (though he burned through a good chunk of his 7.62 NATO at the Steps of Faith), body armor, and a smattering of miscellaneous supplies you'd expect a soldier to carry.

 

But does anyone know that? Hell no. For all anybody who walks up to him would know, he's just that guy who hangs out in the Drowning Wench all the time and makes jokes about being a Maelstrom ambassador.

 

 

In Franz' words: fight me.

[Askier]

I made a character once. He was a sick butler cat with super manners and lots of diseases.

 

Then Osric shot him on the bridge to death after sick kitty lead a mass terror campaign against Ul'dah and complicated loads of player characters and their stories.

 

So the sick little kitty was resurected into a new body, a female body and fused with a female soul and became an assassin. 

 

Then the female soul kicked out the little cat soul but little soul defied death and managed to crawl out of the very realm of chaos back into reality where he currently plots to destroy all of creation with his new void powers.

 

Jin'li is so snowflake it hurts. He is op, special, and unique. And you know what? I never force anyone to rp with him but a bunch of people actually really enjoy rping with him. So just cause you have a dude that -stretches- cannon laws don't mean they can't be fun for people. Especially if they are a baddy.

 

My.normal dude, Ki, is about as generic as they come. Lol.

[Kellach Woods]

One rather annoying thing that happened back on CoH's official forums for the Virtue server is that the "lore-strict" group decided to never RP with the "lore-lenient" group, and so the lore-lenient group decided to troll and mock the lore-strict group whenever possible. The two groups never had discussions like these to try to reconcile and find common ground. That's... not really helpful or beneficial, in my mind. There's room enough for everyone, and there are stories that can be told without even so much as getting close to a lore boundary.

 

I remember that! The cold stares in Pocket D and the pants-off dance-offs, scathing personal attacks and outright cruelty on both sides. Really annoying/amusing stuff but beneath that was some deep, dark animosity. It made a lot of people, even some heavy RPers back off and go hide in their SG bases which really drove a dagger into the heart of the community. It didn't "kill" anything per se, but I know it strained a lot of people I played with.

 

I, personally, am not one for being lore-strict, despite my inherent desire to see a unified field theory for RP. Much of that is due to seeing what Freelancer described right here and how damaging it was.

 

/rerail

 

AIN'T NO GETTING OFF THIS DERAIL WE'RE ON.

 

The in-fighting and general unfriendliness of Virtue were one of the reasons I stuck with the Victory RP group, which oscillated between Victory and Virtue for different sets of characters.

 

* * *

 

So far I don't think I've done much lore-breaking, but I have contributed to many lorefudgings over time as I'm of the opinion that if you can roll it in-game you can play it. Just some classes/jobs require more knowledge of the lore and how to work it.

[Hammersmith]

One rather annoying thing that happened back on CoH's official forums for the Virtue server is that the "lore-strict" group decided to never RP with the "lore-lenient" group, and so the lore-lenient group decided to troll and mock the lore-strict group whenever possible. The two groups never had discussions like these to try to reconcile and find common ground. That's... not really helpful or beneficial, in my mind. There's room enough for everyone, and there are stories that can be told without even so much as getting close to a lore boundary.

 

I remember that! The cold stares in Pocket D and the pants-off dance-offs, scathing personal attacks and outright cruelty on both sides. Really annoying/amusing stuff but beneath that was some deep, dark animosity. It made a lot of people, even some heavy RPers back off and go hide in their SG bases which really drove a dagger into the heart of the community. It didn't "kill" anything per se, but I know it strained a lot of people I played with.

 

I, personally, am not one for being lore-strict, despite my inherent desire to see a unified field theory for RP. Much of that is due to seeing what Freelancer described right here and how damaging it was.

 

/rerail

 

AIN'T NO GETTING OFF THIS DERAIL WE'RE ON.

 

The in-fighting and general unfriendliness of Virtue were one of the reasons I stuck with the Victory RP group, which oscillated between Victory and Virtue for different sets of characters.

 

* * *

 

So far I don't think I've done much lore-breaking, but I have contributed to many lorefudgings over time as I'm of the opinion that if you can roll it in-game you can play it. Just some classes/jobs require more knowledge of the lore and how to work it.

 

Oh god, I remember the virtue Pocket D.

 

The Knocker King was a proto-hammersmith personality back then.  I only ever hung out at the Cape broadcasts on Virtue, but what fun it was to have a horde of Tweedle bots with macro actions.

[ArmachiA]

Just another two cents. As a person who has a knack for writing descriptive lore myself and has even studied the lore of many sources (Anime, All the star wars and to a lesser extent, some FF games) I noticed no lore is ever 100% non ambiguous. A lot of gray areas are left open to promote imagination of the stories setting. 

 

So the lore addicts are in themselves really are setting themselves up for failure if they're trying to stick 100% to lore as that's the thing, there's always a gray area somewhere.

 

 

I keep seeing this argument be made and it's pretty much.. not how Lore people think. There are some parts of lore that we believe are 100% confirmed (That some people obviously don't believe - I.E WHite mage) but most of the time you can't follow lore 100%. It's impossible, there's not enough lore.

 

Basically what we do is Inductive logic to see if SOMETHING would be possible.

 

[video=youtube]

By using other pieces of evidence in lore, people decide on their own if the gray areas would be possible.

 

Using the Miqote Dragoon thing: Using inductive logic - Miqote came over to Eorzea awhile ago, before Ishguard closed their doors. Some will make the logical leap that Miqote dragoon can happen because of that - which there is evidence to support. And some may decide it's not a thing.

 

MOST Lore people are like that, I've actually never met someone who thought lore compliance meant "Sticking with the lore 100%" because it's not logically sound.

[Aaron]

Just another two cents. As a person who has a knack for writing descriptive lore myself and has even studied the lore of many sources (Anime, All the star wars and to a lesser extent, some FF games) I noticed no lore is ever 100% non ambiguous. A lot of gray areas are left open to promote imagination of the stories setting. 

 

So the lore addicts are in themselves really are setting themselves up for failure if they're trying to stick 100% to lore as that's the thing, there's always a gray area somewhere.

 

 

I keep seeing this argument be made and it's pretty much.. not how Lore people think. There are some parts of lore that we believe are 100% confirmed (That some people obviously don't believe - I.E WHite mage) but most of the time you can't follow lore 100%. It's impossible, there's not enough lore.

 

Basically what we do is Inductive logic to see if SOMETHING would be possible.

 

[video=youtube]

By using other pieces of evidence in lore, people decide on their own if the gray areas would be possible.

 

Using the Miqote Dragoon thing: Using inductive logic - Miqote came over to Eorzea awhile ago, before Ishguard closed their doors. Some will make the logical leap that Miqote dragoon can happen because of that - which there is evidence to support. And some may decide it's not a thing.

 

MOST Lore people are like that, I've actually never met someone who thought lore compliance meant "Sticking with the lore 100%" because it's not logically sound.

I've met some. It was pretty ridiculous. 

 

Not gonna say their names though because im not that kinda evil lol

[KitKat]

In my experiences, the people who get the most defensive over these topics are the people who are most aware they're taking big liberties with things.

 

 

I'm a pretty staunch advocate for allowing players to RP as a White Mage. My post history can attest to that. I do not actually play one, however. This opinion is more a broad generalization than actual truth.

 

In all honesty, this whole argument is like politics. Too many people lean too far in one direction and are unwilling to meet in the middle. You know, for all my bluster about roleplaying as a White Mage, I actually consider myself more on the lore nazi side of the fence. My point is that there is a middle ground, a ceasefire zone if you will. We should all strive to congregate around there so we have more people we can have pretendy fun times with. Sure, there will be outliers: people so strict on the lore that they won't budge, and people so liberal with the lore that they're basically Kryptonian.

 

Most of us should be able to reasonably meet in the middle.

[Gone.]

Meeting somewhere in the middle is a nice thought, but it takes the willingness of both parties to make that happen. Unfortunately I don't see that happening here.

[ArmachiA]

Isn't, "I'm gonna do what I want and you do what you want and we won't bug each other" meeting in the middle? Seems like a fair compromise to me.

 

Cuz I hate to tell you "Players should be able to play White Mages" isn't a middle ground. It's the opposite of my belief that they shouldn't.

[KitKat]

It's not meeting in the middle. It's refusing to even meet in the first place.