FFXIV Lore Q/A

[Gone.]

I concur, however I have honestly never come across any people playing a Doman in that manner.

 

As for me, both of my ladies have a slight accent from their homeland and little more. If they do happen to speak in Doman, it's between others and bracketed like a film script.

[Edda]

So nothing changed, then, as I've been playing the game in Japanese from day-one and got the below cutscene myself.

Nothing changed for you, yes, at least in terms of the cutscene animation. As it is with all dialogue in this game, much of Haurchefant's expressiveness outside of voiced cutscenes is still lost in translation to the vast majority of players.

 

I'm sort of glad that he's more serious in the English version of the game. It fits Ishgard's gritty vibe rather well. That's likely an unpopular opinion though given that I also can't stand Hildebrand who seems to be widely loved...

It's cool that he's more cool, sure. But let's not confuse "enthusiastic" with "serious." Haurchefant is still deadly serious in the JP version of the game, he is just uniquely emotive. The fact that this was completely changed in the NA version for no apparent reason is kind of unsettling, and quite frankly - stupid. That is all I will have to say on the matter, however.

[Gone.]

You could passively-aggressively argue localization woes all day (and ironically I would actually agree with you on them making the hostility entirely pointless) but it doesn't change the fact that the original is still there in the game as an option, you just have to switch VAs to do so.

 

Honestly I'm considering it a non-issue unless someone is willing to sit down and translate the Japanese text and post it alongside the English script.

[Verad]

You could passively-aggressively argue localization woes all day (and ironically I would actually agree with you on them making the hostility entirely pointless) but it doesn't change the fact that the original is still there in the game as an option, you just have to switch VAs to do so.

 

Honestly I'm considering it a non-issue unless someone is willing to sit down and translate the Japanese text and post it alongside the English script.

 

What was hostile about that? The italics? The implication that your choice to watch the JP version from Day One was a minority one? I'm confused.

[allgivenover]

Also in a game with dapper zombies, flying lettuce fairies, snow elves that can turn into dragons and various bizarre elemental personifications hellbent on the destruction of life as we know it, a potion that can change one's race is really low-tier on the weirdness factor.

 

No, it's not low tier at all. Fantasia existing causes many problems in the lore and story that are simply ignored - and now we know why, because it was a meta-item that facilitated game mechanics and doesn't exist in the setting. Sylphs, the Hildebrand plot, dragons shapeshifting, and Ysayle are all cohesive within the story and do not cause the sort of problems that fantasia did, no matter what words you choose in a poor attempt to present them as just as ridiculous as the presence of fantasia.

 

Why would Yugiri hide her face rather than just drink a fantasia?

 

Why wouldn't anyone who wanted to escape notice or deceive someone simply use one to change who they are?

 

Why would we never hear about one being used in the lore, ever?

 

It being "legendary and super rare" doesn't explain enough, and furthermore it just puts it into the territory of Rping a WHM or the Azure Dragoon.

 

Regardless of whatever excuses we come up, fantasia thankfully are not lore by Word of God. I'm not judging anyone who used it in RP - I in fact acknowledged it on a few occasions rather than halt RP so I can fruitlessly lecture people about deductive reasoning, and really I couldn't say for sure they weren't, I just really felt it didn't make any sense for them to exist, no matter how I reasoned through it.

[Maril]

Also in a game with dapper zombies, flying lettuce fairies, snow elves that can turn into dragons and various bizarre elemental personifications hellbent on the destruction of life as we know it, a potion that can change one's race is really low-tier on the weirdness factor.

 

Which is also why I specifically asked from the viewpoint of a common man, since that is where I and most of the social circle I RP with are around. Weird things may happen, but it usually only happens once and to not many people in the whole universe, yet ends up having consequences for many - my discomfort with the fantasia roots in that if I allowed myself to do that, I just imposed onto the universe that changing your entire looks into another race or gender, which then would affect how the world works in general. That is something I am not comfortable with because I do not consider Eorzea to be my universe, I regard it as belonging to the loredevs who sit and write all of the amazing storylines. I do also consider it to be up there on the weirdness factor, but I think that's more because it leads me to imagine how a whole society of shapeshifters would even work.

 

Again, there's no stopping someone who really wants to do it, which isn't the point here either..  I heavily doubt anyone (sane) would like to attempt to police RP - but it gives me something I can refer to when people question my views, which (hopefully) will not result in everything spontaneously self-combusting during the course of the conversation. 

 

I'm also not saying there's anything wrong with different views, I just wanted to illustrate why it is I and potentially others get uncomfy around stuff like that.

[Kichiro Gunji]

There's so little about Duskwights out, would love time to pick the brains of the lore team about them.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

There's so little about Duskwights out, would love time to pick the brains of the lore team about them.

 

You might enjoy these threads, if you've not already seen them.

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=2947

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=8599

[Kellach Woods]

I'm just waiting for what else they're gonna declare uncanon.

[Kichiro Gunji]

There's so little about Duskwights out, would love time to pick the brains of the lore team about them.

 

You might enjoy these threads, if you've not already seen them.

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=2947

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=8599

I have not! Going through them now. :3

[Aaron]

I always checked up fantasias to magical sex changes. . . Or drag. . . Or. Something. Idk.

 

It really didn't bother me people used it. A simple "ok." And id never touch it again.

[Lilia Lia]

If any of you think this is going to beat back the tide of IC Fantasia, then I think you're severely underestimating people's willingness to come up with novel justifications for Fantasia.  I actually don't think I've ever met someone who "drank the Fantasia potion" and that was the story of their race change.

[Aysun]

1. Would a regular average joe in Eorzea be able to get their hands on a Fantasia potion, it does not appear to be widespread as it is. And if so, is there a reason why it does not appear to be used by people in power/ people with evil agendas?

 

A: While the Fantasia potion has some in-world flavor text, it’s mainly meant to be seen as a meta object. For example, you wouldn’t see it’s use, or reference to its use in storylines since in effect it doesn’t actually exist (… So far. You never know if something might change )

 

Using fantasia in RP confirmed to be lore breaking.

 

I know this won't stop anyone. But it's good to see a dev response to justify keeping it out of my own RP circles and ignoring it, rather than just rely on sound reasoning.

FUUUUCKYESIKNEWIT.

 

...ahem. That is all. /goes to read more.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

If any of you think this is going to beat back the tide of IC Fantasia, then I think you're severely underestimating people's willingness to come up with novel justifications for Fantasia.  I actually don't think I've ever met someone who "drank the Fantasia potion" and that was the story of their race change.

 

It's not even just IC fantasia. It's pretty much every heavily debated lore topic. (Like WHMs, people being Azure DRGs or DRGs out of Ishgard, or, or...etc. It could go on FOREVER). And really, it's ultimately up to the RPer and the people RPing with that RPer to judge if something should be ok. We (calling out everyone here) really have no obligation to forcibly include someone or their view on the lore if we -really- do not agree with it. It's a gradient. Likewise, I'm just as free to point to whatever sources are in my favor for a given topic, or to only RP with the people who have a similar view of the game.

 

Realistically, even if people suddenly stopped calling it fantasia, they'd just find some other way of using a fantasia in an IC fashion, whether it was as simple as plastic surgery, a sex change operation, or some wacky aether hijinks that somehow morphed a person entirely. The realism faction is not particularly high with this concept. It is stated in the game that people can effectively break down their bodies into aether, which is how teleportation works. Why then, could a person somehow not "accidentally" or perhaps purposely, teleport and come out different? Wouldn't it only need some advanced aetherial manipulation then? For a serious or plot-driven storyline, such things are just as plausible and possible.

 

A gimmick character isn't going to care what the lore says, and will likely keep using fantasia potions IC if they find it fun.

[Aysun]

If any of you think this is going to beat back the tide of IC Fantasia, then I think you're severely underestimating people's willingness to come up with novel justifications for Fantasia.  I actually don't think I've ever met someone who "drank the Fantasia potion" and that was the story of their race change.

 

That's the thing. People HAVE used the potion ICly. Drank it. Became something else. Drank another one, returned to original state. Etc. That's what bothers me. If people want to roll with glamour, or whatever as a reason for Fantasia usage, go ahead - but the actual potion being created/used ICly was what always made me cringe.

[Kellach Woods]

Realistically, even if people suddenly stopped calling it fantasia, they'd just find some other way of using a fantasia in an IC fashion, whether it was as simple as plastic surgery, a sex change operation, or some wacky aether hijinks that somehow morphed a person entirely. The realism faction is not particularly high with this concept. It is stated in the game that people can effectively break down their bodies into aether, which is how teleportation works. Why then, could a person somehow not "accidentally" or perhaps purposely, teleport and come out different? Wouldn't it only need some advanced aetherial manipulation then? For a serious or plot-driven storyline, such things are just as plausible and possible.

 

We have sprites, animals and voidsent that can literally glamour themselves into beings of an entirely different shape.

 

I can understand not wanting to accept fantasia at face value but come the fuck on.

 

I'm not a fan of devs introducing in-game items, with flavor descriptions, and then going out of their way to say "this item isn't real". Would have preferred that they used the Mog Station entirely to switch that but I suspect they never thought of that.

 

* * *

 

White/Black magic refers to a very specific subset of magic that draws its power (aether) from the land itself rather than with Nature's consent/their own power.

 

Briefly, black magic started killing the planet because black mages used it indiscriminately, white magic was thus gifted to certain individuals to counteract them, and the resulting conflict was the equivalent to an apocalypse-level event. Both eventually returned under severely restricted format (Granted to a specific caste of Gridanians for White magic, studied in dark shadows and beastmen for Black magic).

 

So, while you could technically refer to CNJ/THM spells as white/black magic respectively, they are not White/Black magic in the lore sense.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Realistically, even if people suddenly stopped calling it fantasia, they'd just find some other way of using a fantasia in an IC fashion, whether it was as simple as plastic surgery, a sex change operation, or some wacky aether hijinks that somehow morphed a person entirely. The realism faction is not particularly high with this concept. It is stated in the game that people can effectively break down their bodies into aether, which is how teleportation works. Why then, could a person somehow not "accidentally" or perhaps purposely, teleport and come out different? Wouldn't it only need some advanced aetherial manipulation then? For a serious or plot-driven storyline, such things are just as plausible and possible.

 

We have sprites, animals and voidsent that can literally glamour themselves into beings of an entirely different shape.

 

I can understand not wanting to accept fantasia at face value but come the fuck on.

 

I'm not a fan of devs introducing in-game items, with flavor descriptions, and then going out of their way to say "this item isn't real". Would have preferred that they used the Mog Station entirely to switch that but I suspect they never thought of that.

 

They probably never considered a mogstation-based approach. ...but I mean, fantasia likely just recycled the 1.0->2.0 code to edit appearance.

 

But there is a difference between a fantasia and a glamour. A very big one.

 

Glamours are purely visual. They might as well be holograms. A tank that's glamoured themselves with emperor's wear will still make clanking sounds with their armor. (Although this is not rendered in game, which is a pity.) A glamour does not alter physical properties. I could glamour a slug to look like a kitten. You try to pet that "kitten" and you'll be feeling a slimy slug still.

 

A fantasia -does- modify the body. It doesn't make much sense in an IC facility, but that's what we get for meta-items for happy players. It's not less insane than say....getting primal weapons. Average person A would never be able to do that!

[Kellach Woods]

A fantasia -does- modify the body. It doesn't make much sense in an IC facility, but that's what we get for meta-items for happy players. It's not less insane than say....getting primal weapons. Average person A would never be able to do that!

On that last one if you really want to be technical, they're all 3-star crafts.

 

The demimateria/EX Primal item would be a pain to get but yes.

 

(which reminds me I kinda need to get the Talons of the Vortex for a glamour piece)

[Kellach Woods]

Those demimateria come from weapons that somehow magically appear when a primal is killed. Assuming a primal is summoned no more than 3 times (NM, HM and EM), and the HM is the -only- one that drops demimateria-able weapons (because they're only Ifrit, Garuda, Titan and Mog iirc?), it's basically impossible. BUT THEY'RE PRETTY. AND PLAYERS WOULD WANT THEM

 

It's already stretching the imagination that they're only summoning them three times (and even then one of them is so non-important it's not necessary for the MSQ - they are technically only summoned twice and once for Levi/Ramuh/Shiva)

 

Eh, I'm honestly using it as a canonical weapon that looks like talons for a specific monk set. I still need to make it, mind, but that's not a problem.

[Kichiro Gunji]

I have no problems with RP'ers having a bit of special snowflake in them, everyone should hav license to be the protagonist of their own story. I'm no elitest and would rather all RP'ers enjoy themselves when I interact with them. However, I can definitely see how this might present challenges in a continuity of lore setting.

 

-ponders-

 

Will have to be creative then. Soulstones and magic do seem to give you a lot of tools to use creativity with wide boundaries.  

 

Thanks for the insight! Gives me a lot to think on.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Those demimateria come from weapons that somehow magically appear when a primal is killed. Assuming a primal is summoned no more than 3 times (NM, HM and EM), and the HM is the -only- one that drops demimateria-able weapons (because they're only Ifrit, Garuda, Titan and Mog iirc?), it's basically impossible. BUT THEY'RE PRETTY. AND PLAYERS WOULD WANT THEM

 

It's already stretching the imagination that they're only summoning them three times (and even then one of them is so non-important it's not necessary for the MSQ - they are technically only summoned twice and once for Levi/Ramuh/Shiva)

 

Eh, I'm honestly using it as a canonical weapon that looks like talons for a specific monk set. I still need to make it, mind, but that's not a problem.

 

We most definitely fight Ifrit, Garuda and Titan three times. The game gives us lore/quests/story for each encounter. This is, however, deviating from the topic of this thread..

[Kellach Woods]

Oh yeah - as you learn more of the lore you'll probably find ways to bend it to your whims for what you want to do. You might have to compromise a bit but I can't think of anything I may have wanted to do that I could not do.

[Kichiro Gunji]

So Scorpio should be terrified or in disbelief if anyone claims to actually be a black mage.... and in awe or disbelief if they are a white mage? Hmmn, that seems rather unfair to RP'ers if they simply want to RP as their chosen job class.

 

Honestly, people should be allowed to play whatever they want. If you want to play your job class go ahead. Though do be aware there are those who may not appreciate it. However. It is your character, not their's. Enjoy your time in the game. If you want to play that character go ahead and do it. While I don't play a WHM or a BLM icly, I know there are others who did and infact in game? The community in general doesn't care. There are those here who will get upset, I've seen it. But. In the end this is your character and you're welcome to play what you want. Not everyone will want to rp with it, but you gotta find your own sort of people who will accept it.

 

Do know though that white magic and black magic aren't things that you would want to flaunt in public because of the Mage Wars. Even if there wasn't a stigma against WHM to begin with, the fact that black mages and white mages caused a big situation would not be something kindly looked upon.

 

Basically just keep in mind that there are some who may not agree to the way you play, but play it how you want regardless. They don't have to rp with you afterall, and they shouldn't be forcing their view onto you. If they do, just kindly excuse yourself. At the same time people shouldn't try to force their view onto others and expect others to rp with them.

That's pretty much been my philosophy with RP for 5-6 years. But I can definitely understand being super strict about lore and wanting immersion to be exactly what you say it is. I was an elitest in the past, I get it. Just takes too much energy and I feel it limits myself to play that way. So yeah, knowing this, I understand now how/why mages would be regarded the way they are.

 

Reminds me a bit of how mages are treated in the Dragon Age world, but worse. I can understand why anyone on Eorzea would fear or be wary of them, a near world ending experience would affect cultures for generations. I personally plan on playing as a Scholar, but this helps me learn how other RP'ers will react and why I might run into resistance in places. It also helps me with forming my own creative backgrounds or how my character might react to others.

 

So all of your input is invaluable to me, I greatly appreciate it.

[Martiallais]

Back on topic I go!

 

-Duskwights in Ishgard: CHECK

-Ha ha! Fantasias: CHECK

 

This thread:

[Zoetrooper]

I will more than likely be pruning some of this thread when I get home from work ( if another mod doesn't get to it first ). That said I would like to kindly remind everyone to please stay on topic.