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OOC drama and the RP community. (A rant)


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I a hundred percent agree. I've heard too many times about people being targetted or attacked on Tumblr because of their roleplay decisions or even OOC decisions which can be completely false. I know there are linkshells out there dedicated and used as a purpose of talking of how much you hate certain people or XYZ regardless of your knoweldge of them.

 

Sometimes, the community feels like highschool again, and that isn't cool. We're (mostly) all adults here.

 

What do you mean "again" ?

 

You never left.

DUN DUN DUN

 

 

In all seriousness?  Nerd are a dangerous social category in a lot of ways.  A lot of them never move past the "I am the victim" stage and it just gets uglier for a lot of them towards other people from there.  A pass for terrible behavior.  "Get out of jail free" card because they're the person who never got what they were entitled to so the world owes them and they never stop trying to take what they think is owed. (Spoilers: They're not entitled to anything, this is what makes them baddies)

 

 

Those that move past that? Good nerds.  Good people.

 

Those that don't?

 

BAD NERDS.

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Tumblr sounds like a scary place. Among even RPrs close to me that I respect, I find the cattiness I've glimpsed briefly creeping onto it horribly alienating, to say nothing of the more vitriolic private grudges.

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btw i have a tumblr you will not find cattiness on it but you might find stark raving mad ramblings about teh msq :D

 

* * *

 

I don't think I've ever tried to start shit over people's RP here. I don't have the time, it's not worth it, and I'm about as bad as anyone else when it comes to special snowflakeyness (though I do it more for my own amusement and comedy than for the "privilege" of being OP in RP situations).

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I a hundred percent agree. I've heard too many times about people being targetted or attacked on Tumblr because of their roleplay decisions or even OOC decisions which can be completely false. I know there are linkshells out there dedicated and used as a purpose of talking of how much you hate certain people or XYZ regardless of your knoweldge of them.

 

Sometimes, the community feels like highschool again, and that isn't cool. We're (mostly) all adults here.

 

I was rather amused - and surprised - to be linked to a rather odd comment about a post I made in a thread on this site over on Tumblr not too long ago. Instead of approaching me and asking for clarification I was branded an 'elitist' and some pretty nasty things were said about me - all based on one post that was taken completely out of context and was simply my own personal opinion at the end of the day.

 

I find that sort of thing pretty terrifying even with a thick skin. Especially since the culprit is someone often praised for being 'friendly and an awesome role-player'. Obviously I'm unlikely to ever interact with them myself but it makes me worry that some people are going to avoid approaching me based on rumour and gossip alone.

 

It's a shame, though. 'Communication' is often stated throughout the community as being very important but at the end of the day there isn't a whole lot of it in quite a few cases that would otherwise be resolved with a few polite words. I guess I shouldn't be too surprised that many role-players struggle to agree to disagree though. We're a passionate bunch after all!

 

I've had a "friendly and awesome role-player" in the community write some pretty venomous posts on Tumblr as well with some things I've said twisted and totally out of context, and some downright lies tossed in (and I am but one of many to be the target of this person's "social justice" where harassment is apparently valid if it's used to combat perceived wrongs). That didn't bother me--what was disturbing was how others blindly believed what was written, reblogging and building up this huge thing that never actually happened, acting terribly offended by things that were never said/done and that they were shown no proof of, because there was none.

 

I've even see lies about myself/my FC written by someone posting in this very thread now condemning drama and childish behavior. On that note, there are several people in this thread I've seen involved in drama in one form or another--almost all of us have. The most important thing we can do to combat drama is ask ourselves what we are doing to perpetuate it. Because, like it or not, if it keeps happening to you, you're the common denominator and are likely playing some role in it. And this goes for everyone, of course--myself definitely not excluded. I'm certainly not innocent.

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I try not to gossip too much with one point of exception: if I or anyone whom I trust has a terrible experience with a member of an FC this will negatively impact my opinion of said FC and the capability and responsibility of its leadership. And these experiences and opinions are not ones that I will be frugal in sharing, especially to the new players and RPers I meet.

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I try not to gossip too much with one point of exception: if I or anyone whom I trust has a terrible experience with a member of an FC this will negatively impact my opinion of said FC and the capability and responsibility of its leadership. And these experiences and opinions are not ones that I will be frugal in sharing, especially to the new players and RPers I meet.

 

As an FC leader myself, I think it's prudent to let the FC leader know what's going on and see how they handle the situation before you pass any judgement on their leadership or the quality of the FC as a whole. All it takes is one bad newbie who wouldn't last long anyway, or one member having a bad a day or acting under the radar of the FC. We are not omniscient and don't always know what happens or how people behave when we aren't watching. I'm grateful anytime someone would rather communicate and let me know what's going rather than condemn me/my FC based on actions of someone who's likely to get the boot soon anyway. As for other FC leaders, whenever someone is causing trouble I often speak with their FC leader. Most are very grateful and apologetic. Occasionally you'll get someone who doesn't care or who behaves just as badly as the behavior you're reporting to them, but, well... I suppose that's when it's valid to pass judgement. After all, snap judgments and a lack of communication are what lead to so much of the drama being discussed here.

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Yeah I know what you mean, I try my best to not get involved in any of that but it can be hard when its constantly around ya. I have friends who do the very same, and I even find that I sometimes slip and jump on the drama bandwagon but that is very rarely. If somebody I know talks negatively about a player or FC, even If I simply just say " Yeah "; it does not mean I agree with them. It is not something I like to deal with personally though and is definitely not something I'd like to prolong if I somehow find myself in such a mess. The group I do hang out with the most in game currently have been very good on that front though so I'm glad for that. I had a few negative quotes sent to me a few times that paint me in a negative light, I just ignore it and try not let it bother me at the end of the day. I had quit the whole RP scene on different MMO scenes twice before because of reasons, and I hope It does not lead me that way again but so far the FFXIV community has been pretty good to me.

:)

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As an FC leader myself, I think it's prudent to let the FC leader know what's going on and see how they handle the situation before you pass any judgement on their leadership or the quality of the FC as a whole.

An understandable sentiment. On the few occasions I have had a bad experience with someone and felt the need to address their FC leader I have done so. But many of the people who play this game and are a part of this community are extremely conflict averse; when pressed they just want to put the situation behind them and not think about it anymore. At that point, lacking explicit details or proof, it would be disrespectful of both them and the FC leader to approach the FC leader.

 

With all that said, I am extremely unsympathetic to FCs who make it a habit of shifting blame to "bad apples". I come from EVE, where Alliances have codified and explicit rules which are enforced upon hundreds (if not thousands) of members with considerable efficacy. Granted, the communities and players of EVE have significantly more avenues to make a rulebreakers life in game a special kind of hell, but I maintain the opinion that a good FC is differentiated from a decent FC by rigid and strongly enforced rules and a thorough application policy. And I believe that good FC leaders and administrators need to have a strong understanding of not only how their community exists on its own, but how it exists in the environment of the server as a whole so that problems and perceptions can be addressed and remedied.

 

In short, maintaining an FC's PR is the sole responsibility of its owners and operators. I, nor anyone else, is obligated to find out if a bad apple is the norm or exception. Every member you bring into your FC is a representative of your FC to the entire community at large and I would urge every FC leader or operator to stress that point in bold, italics, and underlined large font.

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I had a stalker track me down on Balmung after they recognized the Hammersmith name (I am not good at pretending to be someone else)

 

They sent a "friend" out to probe questions out of me and, after a bit, I told them to fuck off and tell it to the stalker.

 

Then I talked to the FC leader of the "friend" who had been used as the go-between creeper.

 

I havn't heard from the creephat since.  I'm happy about that.

 

Sometimes the system does work

 

Use it.

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As an FC leader myself, I think it's prudent to let the FC leader know what's going on and see how they handle the situation before you pass any judgement on their leadership or the quality of the FC as a whole.

An understandable sentiment. On the few occasions I have had a bad experience with someone and felt the need to address their FC leader I have done so. But many of the people who play this game and are a part of this community are extremely conflict averse; when pressed they just want to put the situation behind them and not think about it anymore. At that point, lacking explicit details or proof, it would be disrespectful of both them and the FC leader to approach the FC leader.

 

With all that said, I am extremely unsympathetic to FCs who make it a habit of shifting blame to "bad apples". I come from EVE, where Alliances have codified and explicit rules which are enforced upon hundreds (if not thousands) of members with considerable efficacy. Granted, the communities and players of EVE have significantly more avenues to make a rulebreakers life in game a special kind of hell, but I maintain the opinion that a good FC is differentiated from a decent FC by rigid and strongly enforced rules and a thorough application policy. And I believe that good FC leaders and administrators need to have a strong understanding of not only how their community exists on its own, but how it exists in the environment of the server as a whole so that problems and perceptions can be addressed and remedied.

 

In short, maintaining an FC's PR is the sole responsibility of its owners and operators. I, nor anyone else, is obligated to find out if a bad apple is the norm or exception. Every member you bring into your FC is a representative of your FC to the entire community at large and I would urge every FC leader or operator to stress that point in bold, italics, and underlined large font.

 

Of course! The thing is just that you don't always know someone's true colors, even when you think you do. I'm sure everyone here can say they've had someone around and trusted them only to regret it, be it a former friend, ex bf/gf, etc. An FC's leaders are responsible for ensuring quality in their membership, but sometimes wolves in sheep's clothing make their way in. There's no foolproof way to prevent it, especially without a very long and detailed application process that likely neither officer nor applicant would want to deal with. And certainly, it's no one's obligation to find it if someone behaving badly is an outlier or the norm, but negative assumptions are wont to breed more negativity.

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Yeah I know what you mean, I try my best to not get involved in any of that but it can be hard when its constantly around ya. I have friends who do the very same, and I even find that I sometimes slip and jump on the drama bandwagon but that is very rarely.

 

I can understand that as well. When you speak to a person on a regular basis who mainly likes to gossip or use you as a sounding board for their heated opinions, it can sometimes get a little difficult to keep yourself from slipping up as well. And even if you do manage to keep your nose mostly clean from acting out on any unfair or misled biases, sometimes you end up being guilty simply by association to those who are a little more liberal with their opinions in the eyes of others.

 

Of course! The thing is just that you don't always know someone's true colors, even when you think you do. I'm sure everyone here can say they've had someone around and trusted them only to regret it, be it a former friend, ex bf/gf, etc.

^And this. Very much this.

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especially without a very long and detailed application process that likely neither officer nor applicant would want to deal with.

I would suggest, as a mere matter of personal experience, not dismissing a lengthy, intrusive, and detailed application process out of hand.

 

When I played EVE I joined and stuck with a single corporation: it was called EVE University and it was one of the largest and most famous corporations in the entire game. It catered explicitly to new players and functioned with the express purpose of teaching people how to play the game.

 

If you ever talk to anyone who has joined and been a part of the Uni in the past they'll likely tell you about how long and elaborate the application process was. At best you could expect to be in within a week of applying and doing an interview. But in the busier seasons when a lot of new players were coming into the game and being referred to the Uni there were wait times that could last for one or even two months before the mods who handled applications got to you. This long application wait time wound up becoming a sort of rite of passage and cultural landmark unique to the corporation. Something for members old, new, and aspiring to commiserate and bond over together.

 

Of course that long wait didn't exist in a vacuum; the Uni frequently hosted events open to those outside of its immediate membership (which some FCs like yours already do to an extent) and also had a chat channel open to use by members and non-members alike. Thus it was easy for anyone to be involved with the corporation, but it was a testament to patience and desire for someone to actually join.

 

And to tie back in to my original point, I think there's something to be said for only recruiting those people willing to jump through the hoops and wait out the application periods; because just by making that effort you know those people not only want to join you but are already invested in being a part of your community.

 

This approach doesn't work for everyone but I believe that it played a significant factor in creating one of the tightest, well-behaved, and most loyal online communities I've ever seen.

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Even with a long drawn out application, bad people will slip threw. I have stories, I have so many stories of people we thought were decent, didn't raise any red flags and eventually were shown to be incredibly manipulative or drama filled.

 

On the other hand, really, what your FC puts out could be seen very differently by very different people. My FC is well known for being lore compliant, which we think is a GOOD thing. There are people out there though, who believes that makes us babysitters and elitist. People's perceptions of your FC will be marred regardless. We put a lot of work into making people in the FC feel welcome, and we've gotten more than a few "You guys are way friendlier and inclusive then some people told me." All because of my posts on here about liking, and following, lore.

 

Controlling your FC rep is hard to do, you can't watch your members all the time and you have no idea who's going to end up ruining the reputation of your guild. As an FC leader when you hear "One person can ruin your FCs rep" it is INCREDIBLY stressful because it feels like I have to police everyone in my FC all the time and I don't like doing that. I am one person, trying to control the actions of 70 others is nearly impossible.

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Here comes the part where I show up in a thread.

 

I'll start off by saying: Hey, OP. Welcome to the party! This is how roleplayers do. It's how they do everywhere, in literally every single game. They will claim maturity, and reason, and inclusiveness, etc.

 

What this actually translates to is: If you are willing to join in the hugbox, you can stay. If you disagree with someone, or don't give the proper/expected accolades and backpats, you are an elitist/troll/fake roleplayer/dick/literally the devil.

 

I say this from experience. It's a wild ride, let me tell you.

 

Anyway,

 

You don't counter harassment with more harassment, you don't counter the truth with lies (or even "half-truths"), and you certainly don't fix a problem between two (or more) players by spreading the word and attempting to get the whole community involved. Those who claim that this "helps" the community are lying to others and themselves.

 

I have never encountered a community that so successfully managed to harass and harm people while deluding themselves into thinking they are innocent and doing it for "the better". Harassment is not cool, and regardless of your issues with other players, talking shit and bending the truth to make yourself look better DOES NOT make you a better person. You have a problem? Keep it between you and the player, spreading the fire is not only counter-productive, but it makes you look like shit. This isn't high school.

 

As much as I love this bit? And I do. Sincerely, I do: You will never get these people here, or any roleplayers anywhere else to accept this. Ever. Man, I remember back during the last time me and mine were around here? We were told that we were "fake" roleplayers for pointing out a problem with an event's narrative. The dude in question didn't do his research, tried to pawn a widely known plot point/fact of the setting as a new development, and when our characters stood up and said "Yo, this is not news", it was decided, unanimously, that Misericorde was a "troll FC", and not real roleplayers.

 

We've also been told that our realism isn't welcome in this world/community. When we had linkshell leader's meetings (I don't know if those still happen.) There was chatter amongst the leaders present of "taking care of troublemakers".

 

What I'm saying is: Much like Ron Perlman says, war never changes. The root cause of that is that people don't change. Roleplayers, as a whole, are some impossible motherfuckers, and will always be impossible motherfuckers.

 

That doesn't mean don't try to rock the boat, though. Please do.

 

Good on you for expressing yourself, though. Good fuckin' luck after the fact, because they will probably never take you back now.

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I'm one of those people who trash talks.  That said, someone usually has to do something so shitty it makes me genuinely furious in order to push me to that limit.  Most of the problems I've had with people in the community at all have been strictly OOC drama, and those were mostly players I migrated into 14 with.  Since I've joined, I don't think I've had a bit of drama that's been genuinely IC that's caused me to rant/vent about another player.  However, those players I have had issues with, I've warned those who I've come in contact with who get 'close' to them.  Usually something along the lines of "There was this drama, so be careful you don't get entrenched in it."

 

Otherwise, I'm not willing to say anything behind someone's back that I won't say to their face.  That probably makes me seem like a pretty nasty individual, but I just don't believe in saying it about them if I'm not willing to say it in front of them.  That said, even my OOC issues, I've just kind of given the shoulder lately.  Even the worst drama I had wasn't worth holding on to, because it limited my interactions with people because I was avoiding certain players.  So I just started playing where I wanted, when I wanted, and I've been having a lot of fun with it.  

 

That said, I understand where OP is coming from.  People tend to be pretty toxic to each other during any kind of conflict.  It happens, it really does.

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I remember back during the last time me and mine were around here? We were told that we were "fake" roleplayers for pointing out a problem with an event's narrative. The dude in question didn't do his research, tried to pawn a widely known plot point/fact of the setting as a new development, and when our characters stood up and said "Yo, this is not news", it was decided, unanimously, that Misericorde was a "troll FC", and not real roleplayers.

 

We've also been told that our realism isn't welcome in this world/community.

 

Haha yeah... Good times.

 

Anyways, when it comes to OP's complaint and probably everything else said here (I didn't read all of it because what are you nuts? I have shit to do. Like play Mario and die a little inside for not having friends.): This is kind of a standard hazard for any social group. People will start "drama" and gossip and exclude others for silly reasons, like disliking a character's hat or something. Everyone is going to talk behind everyone's back. Seriously, if your name isn't Shuck, Orlog, or Zarek (that's right, buddy. You're on my good list. Welcome to the sleazy life), chances are I've linked something dumb you've said to someone else and said "look at this guy." Unless you've only said things I like, in which case I haven't.

 

I'm rambling for the sake of poor humor. In any case, I see the frustration in OP's OP. I get it. I'm right there with you. Unfortunately, it's the nature of the beast. Everyone here will tell you "THOSE PEOPLE THAT DO THAT ARE THE WORST" and to "Surround yourself with positive people who value you for you" and apparently no one here would ever stoop that low. But we do. We pick stupid reasons not to like people, and we find people with the same feelings and complain together. 

 

My advice to you would be to keep on keepin' on. As Shuck said, a few years ago the people who knew about Misericorde (we're really not that popular, but we like to think we are) did not like us. They just can't handle playas who keep it real nawmsayin. And there are probably a few people who still don't like us. But you just have to ignore it and be more cautious in making friends. No need to cry over spilled milk. 

 

I'm barely awake right now, and I no longer remember the topic of this conversation. Something about drama and gossip and people getting mad OOC for IC shit. Those people that do that are the worst. Surround yourself with positive people who value you for you. No one in this community would ever stoop that low.

 

Always remember:

haters-gonna-hate-batman-rollerblading.jpg

 

I'm outie 5000. Smell ya later.

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Of course! The thing is just that you don't always know someone's true colors, even when you think you do. I'm sure everyone here can say they've had someone around and trusted them only to regret it, be it a former friend, ex bf/gf, etc. An FC's leaders are responsible for ensuring quality in their membership, but sometimes wolves in sheep's clothing make their way in. There's no foolproof way to prevent it, especially without a very long and detailed application process that likely neither officer nor applicant would want to deal with. And certainly, it's no one's obligation to find it if someone behaving badly is an outlier or the norm, but negative assumptions are wont to breed more negativity.

 

Amen sister, both to the regret statement and needed quality control process. Ever since we added a process (its odd how we do it ive been told by members, but they like it) our members are happy, I'm happy, and we grow better as word of moth spreads. The good people we have in here I attribute to the advice you gave me to step up and take charge back awhile ago. Not just quality control at adding but a continual eye on things. As you see clicks form, harassment start, or just general meanness, as a group leader you have to catch it and fix it if possible.

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To be honest, I'm not sure I know a community where these things don't happen, be it in games, RP, forums, real life. It sucks, but people are people. All anyone can truly do is move on.

I know right? It's like always that one person that wants to start something with everyone that furthers shit down into chaos.

 

/pushes away fries

 

Too much salt I don't want it anymore.

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I know right? It's like always that one person that wants to start something with everyone that furthers shit down into chaos.

 

Quietly reading this thread and I'm not sure what you mean by this. Could I get some clarification?

 

Are you referring to the OP as someone who wants to start trouble, or...? I'm not quite sure what you're trying to convey here.

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I know right? It's like always that one person that wants to start something with everyone that furthers shit down into chaos.

 

Quietly reading this thread and I'm not sure what you mean by this. Could I get some clarification?

 

Are you referring to the OP as someone who wants to start trouble, or...? I'm not quite sure what you're trying to convey here.

The OP? No. Not at all.

 

Im referring to how in every circle of people there's always that /one/ person who just has to be the one to go to another group of people and talk about someone behind their backs. Whether out of jealousy, anger, or just a loony emotional state.

 

Or hell, maybe they do it because they want validation in something said person disagreed with. Reasons are endless.

 

Its common in social groups if not an outright given. And because of this, there's always drama to be had one day or another.

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Excellent brain food,

 

This brings up some interesting ideas... After reading other peoples posts it definitely seems a common line that a good deal of this (what's a good term for it. "OOC back chat"? I feel like gossiping can be seen as fairly mundane. Anyroad.) Malignant Gossiping occurs towards people who used to be part of "X group" or "Y FC" and rarely towards the wandering vagrants.

 

Despite my lack of involvement with my current FC, and the way I skulk about the world in general it still surprises me how often I get a "Oh but I thought all of that FC was like ____ or didn't like ____ people and that you were an asshole" or what have you in compared to when I was a "freelancer". Although I was arguably ruder ICly/and less schedule reliable. Sometimes I wonder how Eorzea would be without FC's..

 

It would be an interesting experiment to compare how often people were bothered/harassed on a monthly basis broken down by how active they are in the RPC/ how many/what FC's and the same for linkshells. on an OOC vs IC basis as well as just time wise. (like theoretically, could having any more than one or two OOC LS's dramatically increase the amount of shittalking you have to go through?) None of that being an excuse for the harassers of course, I just like data.

 

Also because that leads me to wondering, since one of the two blow ups that i've been around (that I can recall) happened in an OOC LS. How's the fall out to these situations (on average)? I was in a linkshell when some frankly disturbing "he said she said" went down between the leader and some members about someone who had recently been booted, and I just left the shell asking them to reinvite me when they were done being a bunch of sassy sammies (I hate hearing about other peoples IC relations OOCly because i'm one of those "keep the encounter pure and free from potential meta information" peeps, and had made that clear upon joining mind you..) evidently not toeing the line and hearing how bad this removed person was, wasn't the right decision and I was denied re-entry.

 

Out of Curiosity, whats the rate of retention when this stuff happens? afaik I was the only person to leave due to the malignant gossiping although others have mentioned that they simply filtered the channel if it was a "practical" LS with a use (eg. Balmungs Finest.).

 

Thoughts? Either way Sasha well put.*

 

Edit: Miss spelt OP's name, much dishonor.

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I feel like a thread of this nature crops up every few months, and it's always the same things being repeated by nearly the same people.

 

So let me start this post off by making one thing very clear: Calling out shitty behavior, no matter who it is, is not starting drama nor is it toxic. It is the antithesis to what made other MMO communities as horrible as they are now. Letting manipulative behavior continue all while pushing it under the rug to avoid any perceived drama is exactly where problems start.

 

That said. 

 

It's possible to go overboard--it's possible to take it too far. You should never call someone out until you have confirmation of someone's shitty behavior first hand (See: The botched failzeroth bullshit on tumblr before Heavensward came out. That wasn't cool).

 

If you see someone doing something you don't like? Call them out on it. You don't need to make huge diatribes on tumblr or the RPC about it, but pulling people aside and telling them that you don't think their behavior is acceptable is good and necessary for a community--any community--to thrive. Making blanket ranting posts doesn't make anything better, it just makes people slightly butthurt because what if they're talking about me? It's passive aggressive at best.

 

Accepting how things are, if you don't like it, isn't necessary and isn't really all that good for one's enjoyment of anything. Be the change you wish to see! 

 

And after all that, I say that this community really isn't half as bad as any ranting posts/tumblr drama makes it out to be. It's one of the most diverse (OOCly at least), positive and friendly communities I've ever had the enjoyment of being a part of. If you focus too much on the negative, it's easy to see nothing but that.  Smile! Tell some dumb motherfuckers that they're being negative/too aggressive and distance yourself from them if they respond poorly to that.

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