Alexander difficulty (and other things)

[Seriphyn]

As a result, Alexander has both a normal (story) mode and a savage mode. The normal mode will be higher difficulty than that of the Extreme Primals, but easier than Second Coil of Bahamut's Savage Mode. 

 

Well, that's still quite the gate. But this should not be taken to be 100% reliable.

 

More here.

[Chris Ganale]

Harder than EXs? I'm so dead. So much for easy mode story. D=

[Dat Oni]

The design of the gear for white mages was not intended to have a 'feminine' look, specifically — rather, it was based on Final Fantasy I's iconic white mage, who happened to be a female character.

 

Excuse me...

 

[Aaron]

Mmmmm Harder than Ex Primals.

 

Ima live through the same hell I did with L eviathan Ex when it first came out.

 

My body is ready.

[Kage]

I'm pretty sure there's been a mistranslation / misunderstanding. Coil itself has been considered harder than the Extremes without echo and overgearing. It doesn't make sense to make Story mode the exact.same.thing and have... Savage even harder than Savage???!!

[Zyrusticae]

That's weird.

 

I thought Alexander normal is supposed to be in-between Coil + Echo and the Crystal Tower series, while Alexander Savage is just slightly harder than regular Coil.

[LiveVoltage]

Savage+Savage=Double Savage. At least they did the math when making a difficult endgame, lol.

 

I think its good that they do this, so at least players can experience the normal mode for the story then dive into savage when they want to get serious about endgame or doing it for completionist stuff. In this way nobody is left out, everyone has a chance to get through it and experience the story and the hardcore players have their own corner they can run off too and put a sign over saying "No casuals allowed." lol.

[Edda]

I'm pretty sure there's been a mistranslation / misunderstanding. Coil itself has been considered harder than the Extremes without echo and overgearing. It doesn't make sense to make Story mode the exact.same.thing and have... Savage even harder than Savage???!!

 

That's weird.

 

I thought Alexander normal is supposed to be in-between Coil + Echo and the Crystal Tower series, while Alexander Savage is just slightly harder than regular Coil.

 

Yeah I'm pretty sure Alexander Savage is going to be the one that is harder than the Ex Primals but not as bad as Savage SCoB. Making "story mode" harder than something like Ramuh Ex makes little sense. There is most likely a mix-up in there somewhere.

[111]

I hope it's about as hard as first coil, which, if you think back on it, was actually pretty easy.

 

People had no issue usually pugging anything up to t5, which even now is mostly only hard because dive bombs and tornados are very finicky. The real issue is that 2nd and 3rd coil became way more complicated and intricate. I think if they keep Alex on 1st coil level, it will be a good balance of challenge/accessibility.

[Dravus]

Since difficulty is entirely subjective it's hard to say whether or not it's 'too easy' or 'too hard' but I find myself pretty satisfied with the story version. It's reasonably challenging in that you'll wipe if people don't learn from their mistakes and focus on adhering to mechanics but it's not super complex to the point where it's very unlikely that a random group will succeed.

 

I enjoyed fighting each of the bosses with a preference for the third, final and first in that order. The groups I were in - formed through the duty finder - wiped a few times but we kept at it and nailed each boss after a few attempts.

 

I absolutely love the raid's aesthetics and music. It's really cool. I didn't actually think I'd like it at first, but I did.

[Marisa]

I found the first 3 bosses to be a breeze, and this is coming from someone who never cleared turn 6. Mind you, this is on day 1. Nobody should be unable to get through this raid, if you're willing to try it a few times.

[Gegenji]

I'd have to agree. I didn't have too much trouble except for the last boss... the first time through.

 

Running through the third and fourth fights again to try and get my drop, though, I've noticed that not knowing the mechanics (as a tank, specifically) will really hinder the party's effectiveness on the third boss. It goes from being what feels like a breeze to watching as a third to half your group just... explodes. Which I suppose is fitting - you definitely need to know the mechanics for the last boss in order to manage him.

 

I've actually only managed to down the last boss once over several attempts. It's always the second and last phases that seem to catch people. Second is just a "oh, you have to do this" sort of situation most of the time... and things go smoothly after that, but the final phase can get quite hectic - especially as a healer.

 

I'd go into more details, but I don't want to spoil any of the fights for anyone. :blush:

[Tumensuns]

Floor 1 and 2 were pretty easy, mechanically and all. Floor 3 had more concepts, but was fairly easy. Floor 4 requires a bit more coordination with the team, and I think that's the only fight so far that's equivalent to an Extreme Primal fight.

[Caspar]

I'm done with it completely. I won't comment on how hard I think it is, as I raid frequently and my perception of what is difficult is skewed, but I will say it is fun, and its complexity is beyond that of some typical weekly towers bosses IMO. I'm certainly ready for HM, and would like to see the gear be unlocked for that.

 

 

But having this simply be the end of Alexander is unsatisfying. I want more; we never even got to see the full size of the thing.

 

[Merri]

The fights are fun, albeit a bit straight forward, but I suppose that's to be expected with what they were aiming at. Looking forward to savage, though. Already deep into speculation mode with my static on how they'll add onto pre-existing mechanics.

 

Kind of hope they add another tier of difficulty over savage, though. If it winds up sitting between coil and savage coil as they said, I'm worried about there not being another set of "you aren't going to clear this unless you have max vit melded crafted accessories and a lot of time on your hands" set of turns. Something for us hardcore raiders to really dig our teeth into again. But I suppose only time will tell on how difficult Alexander savage actually is.

 

 

But having this simply be the end of Alexander is unsatisfying. I want more; we never even got to see the full size of the thing.

 

 

 

It isn't even close to being over. They're doing the same release schedule as coil/CT in ARR. One set of floors for Alexander, then one section of the new 24 man raid in the following patch, followed by another set of floors for Alexander in the next patch and so on.

 

There's shots of Alexander upright out of the water, which will likely be how he appears during the final set of floors. You can actually already find the collision for the other arm on an island across the river. There's a set of rocks in the shape of his feet there as placeholder until the phasing for it is unlocked in a later patch.

 

[Aris]

The mechanics are all quite straight forward, so it's mostly just about a bit of coordination.

 

I think SE have got it right with difficulty/story-mode. It's doable at i170 minimum and in a few months time people's ilvl will be higher once again. It won't be as daunting for anyone who doesn't do any raiding at all but wants to catch up on the story. I'm super interested to hear from anyone who doesn't raid to know what they think about it. :surprise: Please give me a shout if anyone would like a friendly face going into it!

 

Looking forward to Savage mode.

[Kage]

I haven't quite done Floor 4 but I got to do Floors 1-3 last night with a few people "I could count on."

 

Didn't feel like pugging half a group for what is the equivalent of like Ramuh Ex with randoms.

 

Anyway, this is from a person who has liked raiding, might feel burn out, just want competent players.

 

My Alexander NM experience was queue into DF alone for Floor 1 and immediately get bombarded with the fact I didn't use Selene :> The trash got to 8 stacks before dying even with my DPS and two people were ranting about actual DPS numbers under parse. I didn't feel like reporting two dumbasses. 15 minutes of my life wasted to bad dps.

 

Queue in with friends. GET ANOTHER BAD DPS GROUP. Numbers were used over VOIP. At min iLvl I don't think Alexander can be run like LotA/ST/WoD where most people pull very... well lackluster numbers. As HEALERS WITH NO FUCKING ACCURACY ON OUR GEAR RAWR we had to do damage in cleric stance where we miraculously did not wipe. Milliseconds before Self-Destruct went off!

 

Floor 2-3 went better. Beat them both on 2nd shot. :>

 

Floor 1 is that hurdle for people who ran things sub-OK until they over gear the content me thinks.

[allgivenover]

Ramuh Extreme at its introduction was way harder than A4.

 

Though I still wouldn't want to try it with randoms.

[Gegenji]

Floor one and two I had no issues with - but I DF'd it and got the drops first go, so I didn't do them repeatedly. Still, I would definitely say Alex1 requires more attention and coordination that Alex2 given their bosses. We actually straight up ignored one of the mechanics in Alex2 because we had a MCH on hand (though I asked about it just so I knew).

 

I had to repeat 3 and 4, though, and that's where I started seeing the issues. Alex3 is very much a knowledge fight. If people don't know what to do, you will die, especially if the people in the dark are the tanks. However, once people know what to do and do it, the fight isn't that bad. It gets a little hectic at the very end with the damage going out, but it isn't insurmountable.

 

Alex4, on the other hand, I've come to find requires an understanding and coordination that - not to be rude or anything - most DF folks cannot or seemingly will not bring to the table. You're frequently having to change focus to higher priority targets, avoid/absorb/mitigate all different kinds of damage being thrown out, and the last phase is a really obnoxious cluster of a lot of damage going out all over the place with an extra added bonus to make things even more hectic for the healers.

 

I've managed to defeat Alex4 once and didn't get the drop. The past two days of trying to get another kill and another chance at a drop has basically killed my desire to try Alex4 anymore. At least Alex3 I had several successes where the rolls were just bad - almost every Alex4 I've been in other than the one victorious one has ended in a vote abandon. It's starting to feel like that bash against the wall I did for endgame raiding in WoW, but with a new group every time instead of a static. I understand it is still new, and that wipes are going to happen (and repeatedly), it's just that my desire to keep pushing right away over waiting a month or two until everyone's more familiar and geared up to handle it has basically waned to nil.

 

Tuesday I was eager to get through on Gogon so I could go through it again on Chachan. Wednesday I was asking if it was required for the MSQ so I can see if I could skip it entirely on Chachan. :lol:

[allgivenover]

I understand it is still new, and that wipes are going to happen (and repeatedly), it's just that my desire to keep pushing right away over waiting a month or two until everyone's more familiar and geared up to handle it has basically waned to nil.

 

You might as well wait unless you set up a group to farm it weekly for the drops you need. We've got a six month gap before the next part and in a month everyone will be geared to the point that all these duty finder bads have forgotten how many times they failed and assert that it's "too easy".

[Dravus]

If people rush to do something over and over within a short period of time then it stands to reason that there's a risk of them burning out. It's a matter of weighing one's desires and the potential reward. Does one need the near gear immediately or can they, in fact, get by by tackling content at a pace that isn't liable to cause them frustration?

 

I prefer the latter approach myself.

 

I feel it's also prudent to point out that the raid has only been out for a couple of days. A lot of players will be going in blind to better experience the thrill of fresh content first hand. It's not impossible to rally a struggling group together and whilst there's certainly situations that cannot be salvaged I've found that if I take the time to explain stuff in a calm and detailed manner then people do tend to learn from their mistakes and the group succeeds.

[Kage]

Mechanics is easier to teach in DF though than telling people that their rotation or damage output is lacking.

 

A small 3% boost from Selene isn't going to cut it for some.

 

Which is why some will still need to outgear and Echo Alexander Story Mode.

 

Focus and/or choose when to AOE. Choose the best person to do bombs (I watched the one melee who was in the tank not get all the bombs and since one tank was just holding, they spun the guy around the whole time like a top.

 

Floor 3 was actually really simple once people had a good idea of what to do. Make sure you aren't near the tank. Spread whatever links. Tanks grab tether / pull this way / swap at whatever.

[Dravus]

The thing is even if someone decides to do the raid with a group outside of the duty finder then they're still going to have to deal with the occasional silly mistakes (which even the most seasoned raiders succumb to from time to time) and if it's someone's debut into a raid then it'll usually take a handful of runs until they work out the most efficient means of performing their task(s).

 

I may simply be lucky but as someone who has completed a great many dungeons since the game's re-launch the majority of groups I have been in have been decent whereas only a tiny portion have been terrible.

[allgivenover]

I attempted to duty finder A1 four times before giving up and going with friends, so I think those of you that went in and cleared in one or two shots were probably just lucky.

[Gegenji]

Mechanics is easier to teach in DF though than telling people that their rotation or damage output is lacking.

 

A small 3% boost from Selene isn't going to cut it for some.

 

Which is why some will still need to outgear and Echo Alexander Story Mode.

 

Focus and/or choose when to AOE. Choose the best person to do bombs (I watched the one melee who was in the tank not get all the bombs and since one tank was just holding, they spun the guy around the whole time like a top.

 

Floor 3 was actually really simple once people had a good idea of what to do. Make sure  you aren't near the tank. Spread whatever links. Tanks grab tether / pull this way / swap at whatever.

 

Right, it usually just took some explaining and I got plenty of Alex3 kills after a few hiccups here and there. I just got a few bad rolls in a row before finally getting my weekly item.

 

Alex4 is on a whole different level, though. You gotta eat these things - but not too many or you'll die! You gotta kill these adds - but keep them apart or there'll be explosions! You gotta keep people healed - but two of them get shunted away regularly to an area where, if they die, you can't get to them... and there's a bit at the end where you also have a very damaging, long-lasting dot on you that you have to deal with while dodging AoEs and keeping people up.

 

Oh, and if you run too close to the other healer when you have it, you both explode.

 

So basically there's a lot of ways things can go wrong. Someone eats too many things and takes more damage than you can heal. Lasers don't get blocked so someone takes too much damage. People who get shunted away die so you're basically down one or two people. Healers either letting someone die to keep themselves up... or trying to keep everyone else up and dying in the process.

 

It's not just a mechanics check, it's a skill check and a coordination check. And the last bit is a DPS race to kill the boss before the damage gets to be too much to manage. In all my runs, we usually manage to make it to the second phase or even the last phase... and then we stumble. Adds run free and people blow up in second phase, or the chaos in the last phase gets to be too much and people start dropping.

 

(Most annoying for me is when the other healer dies, because this is NOT a fight you can one-heal and I have to spend time getting them back up because I just used a Swiftcast Emergency Heal Succor on everyone to top off from the last big hit on a bunch of people and oh god the tank's HP is getting low and... yeah.)