I have a crazy theory about primals. (Some general 3.0 spoilers)

[Marisa]

Tin-foil hat time! Now this is going to start off pretty reasonable, but get worse as it branches out. Stay with me here. 

 

Okay, so let's get the obvious out of the way first: Each 2.0 primal is based around an element: Wind, water, earth, fire, ice, lightning, moogle. But I would venture to say these are all not simply elements, but aspects of magick. And that this list includes two other aspects: Light and Dark. So it would break down like this: 

 

Wind - Garuda

Water - Leviathan

Earth - Titan

Fire - Ifrit

Lightning - Ramuh 

Ice - Shiva

Light - ???

Darkness - Odin

 

But where this gets cool is that, I think, the 3.0 primals are now combining aspects.  

Earth + Fire - Ravana  

Wind + Water - Bismarck 

Water + Fire - Alexander (steam, if you didn't catch that)  

Light + Darkness - Thordan  

 

Let's back up a sec. 2.0 gave us almost every "pure" aspect, except for Light. OR DID IT?!  

I told you this would get weird. I am going to claim here and now that the Heroes of Light died at Carteneau. All of them. Completely dead. Louisoix could no more send Derplander to the future than he could contain Bahamut. After the Calamity, life sucks for everyone. Everything is burning and/or flooded, and there's big monsters everywhere. People are desperate for a savior, kind of like the beast tribes... So, with their combined prayers for salvation, and all the unleashed ether just sitting around in giant goddamn crystals, they unknowingly summon DERPLANDER (Extreme)! 

 

 

Think about it. Dude just appears out of nowhere with no real memory of who he is or what the hell happened to him, but an incredibly strong drive to kill things for his supporters. He proceeds to go punch Ifrit in the face, by himself. Don't give me that crap about 'THE ECHO!', half a dozen people have the Echo. Not one of them punched Ifrit in the face. But Derplander did! And then people give him crystals for payment. What kind of reward is that? The only other people in the world who are paid in crystals are other primals. And even when he loses the blessing of light, he's still powerful as shit! Sure, he still can't be tempered, but no random dude who's lost all his superpowers should be able to just beat Ravana down 1v1. Though art strong, mortal! Bullshit. Though art a goddamn primal. 

 

Finally, why does everyone vaguely remember his face, just because they were at Carteneau? He's an average-sized Hyur, on a battlefield of thousands. Even if he's kicking ass the whole time, the vast majority of soldiers aren't going to see him. Derplander wasn't wiped from their minds; he's an idea in the back of their consciousness. They know him because he's the god they've been praying to, to come save them. He looks familiar because mankind collectively imagined him into existence. And he's not just out to accomplish the big hero stuff; no, Derplander goes and carries grain sacks for downtrodden Lalafell farmers because they've poured all of the little trials and tribulations of their everyday lives into creating this man. He's the combined hopes and dreams of all Eorzeans, big or small. And he's the goddamn Light primal.

 

edit: Urianger already figured it out, and that's why he's being sketchy as hell. You know if anyone would notice, it would be him.

[KitKat]

How to spoiler code? Is Final Coil worth spoiler-warning? Eh, whatever.

 

Final Coil would give you the answer to the Light-aspected Primal, if your theory was to be correct.

[Tierney Weaver]

[ShoggMommy]

An IRL friend of mine who doesn't RP but raid progresses, literally just discussed with me last night. He was of the same mind of this.

[Hyakki]

I feel like the Shiva primal is ice element only because of the calamity (and because FF Shiva has always been ice element).The actual Shiva didn't live in a icy place and churning mists seems like a region rich in wind/lightning or wind/earth. Had the calamity affected Coerthas differently, would Shiva have been of a different element?

 

Also, Derplander is the husbando element primal. I summoned him. Fight me.:ahriman:

[Delilah Scythewood]

Final Coil will give you the answer to the Light Primal aspect, more or less

[Aaron]

Im guessing it's Bahamut.

 

I don't see it as a spoiler, hell just putting "Coil" in there practically screams BAHAMUT IS THE LIGHT PRIMAL.

 

Unless it's that [redacted] dude

[Altitis Acquired]

Stupid question, but who is Derplander?

[Gegenji]

Stupid question, but who is Derplander?

 

In the official cutscenes, the "main character" (the "official" WoL) is displayed as a Midlander Hyur Warrior (though he changed to a Dragoon in Heavensward). He is affectionately referred to as the "Derplander."

[Arelian Solin]

Stupid question, but who is Derplander?

 

The stock Warrior of Light that they've used in the trailers.

[Altitis Acquired]

Stupid question, but who is Derplander?

 

In the official cutscenes, the "main character" (the "official" WoL) is displayed as a Midlander Hyur Warrior (though he changed to a Dragoon in Heavensward). He is affectionately referred to as the "Derplander."

 

Oh, I always thought his name was Meteor, due to this:

 

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Adventurer_(Final_Fantasy_XIV)

[LiadansWhisper]

Let's back up a sec. 2.0 gave us almost every "pure" aspect, except for Light. OR DID IT?! 

 

It did, but it was not Derplander.  If you don't mind Final Coil being spoiled, read on.

 

 

The "Light" Primal is Phoenix, which we discover is what became of Louisoix.

 

Unfortunately for your theory, the Warrior of Light was, in fact, catapulted into the future.  That has to do with Thaliak, and not Louisoix.  Trust me, there was enough aether to do the job.  

 

Edited to Add: Here is the cutscene that shows what really happened:

 

1xOOFCltZuc

 

[Shizuno]

So, even with us knowing who the light primal is (thanks Liadan )  I'm still thinking that even if the derplander wasn't a primal before, he's definitely slowly becoming one. Or at least teetering right on the brink. And it wouldn't be crazy to think that all of the hopes and wishes of the people the derplander has helped along the way are the driving force behind the insane amount of power that the derplander holds. 

 

I mean...look at the last scene after clearing the Reactor.

 

(edited for bad phone grammar!)

[LiadansWhisper]

So, even with us knowing who the light primal is (thanks Liadan )  I'm still thinking that even if the derplander wasn't a primal before, he's definitely slowly becoming one. Or at least teetering right on the brink. And it wouldn't be crazy to think that all of the hopes and wishes of the people the derplander has helped along the way are the driving force behind the insane amount of power that the derplander holds. 

 

I mean...look at the last scene after clearing the Reactor.

 

(edited for bad phone grammar!)

 

You might want to go and pay some closer attention to certain things that happen in the MSQ with regards to the Dragons, and specifically a revelation about the origins of a particular Elder Primal.

 

 

To-wit, I don't think it's possible for a living being to become a primal.  Use his or her body as a host for another entity created by faith and prayers?  Yes.  That person themselves become a primal?  Not so much.

 

[Aduu Avagnar]

So, even with us knowing who the light primal is (thanks Liadan )  I'm still thinking that even if the derplander wasn't a primal before, he's definitely slowly becoming one. Or at least teetering right on the brink. And it wouldn't be crazy to think that all of the hopes and wishes of the people the derplander has helped along the way are the driving force behind the insane amount of power that the derplander holds. 

 

I mean...look at the last scene after clearing the Reactor.

 

(edited for bad phone grammar!)

 

You might want to go and pay some closer attention to certain things that happen in the MSQ with regards to the Dragons, and specifically a revelation about the origins of a particular Elder Primal.

 

 

To-wit, I don't think it's possible for a living being to become a primal.  Use his or her body as a host for another entity created by faith and prayers?  Yes.  That person themselves become a primal?  Not so much.

 

 

 

 

 

I point you to Thordan and his knights twelve

 

[Jana]

That 3.0 example doesn't work either; it's the same situation as Iceheart becoming Shiva. The difference is that these are cases of people taking on personas of past heroes to summon, not they themselves becoming Primals. It's like if Jana got people to pray to her and gathered crystals, she wouldn't become Jana Extreme... At least as far as we know.

[Aduu Avagnar]

That 3.0 example doesn't work either; it's the same situation as Iceheart becoming Shiva. The difference is that these are cases of people taking on personas of past heroes to summon, not they themselves becoming Primals. It's like if Jana got people to pray to her and gathered crystals, she wouldn't become Jana Extreme... At least as far as we know.

what's the difference? currently our working knowledge is that a Primal exists within the aether and is coalesced when summoned. What if this is how other primals start?

 

 

who is to say that Heretics could not summon Shiva, but now as a purely aetheric construct now that she died.

 

[LiadansWhisper]

That 3.0 example doesn't work either; it's the same situation as Iceheart becoming Shiva. The difference is that these are cases of people taking on personas of past heroes to summon, not they themselves becoming Primals. It's like if Jana got people to pray to her and gathered crystals, she wouldn't become Jana Extreme... At least as far as we know.

what's the difference? currently our working knowledge is that a Primal exists within the aether and is coalesced when summoned. What if this is how other primals start?

 

 

who is to say that Heretics could not summon Shiva, but now as a purely aetheric construct now that she died.

 

 

 

The difference appears to be that they have to be very, very dead.

[Gaspard]

That 3.0 example doesn't work either; it's the same situation as Iceheart becoming Shiva. The difference is that these are cases of people taking on personas of past heroes to summon, not they themselves becoming Primals. It's like if Jana got people to pray to her and gathered crystals, she wouldn't become Jana Extreme... At least as far as we know.

what's the difference? currently our working knowledge is that a Primal exists within the aether and is coalesced when summoned. What if this is how other primals start?

 

 

who is to say that Heretics could not summon Shiva, but now as a purely aetheric construct now that she died.

 

 

a primal is a dead, powerful being summoned into the world. either as standalone entity or through a host/avatar. summoned as such through the prayers of their believers.

 

the warrior of light is neither dead, nor being prayed for towards. people cheering him on and hoping for his success =/= prayer.

 

It IS possible that, once uon his death the WoL could be summoned once more as a primal, but i doubt we will get to see that.

[Shizuno]

There's a lot of possibilities here, especially with the way that the lore team likes to bend things. While, yes, we have no concrete reason to believe that the current WoL is a primal or a primal-in-the-making, the opposite is pretty apt as well - we don't really have any concrete evidence that says is can't happen either. 

 

Ultimately, yes, it is just a crazy theory, but it certainly a fun one to consider. While it's far more likely that the Warrior of Light is really just that strong because of Hydaelyn's blessing, it definitely feels like there should be more to it. I mean, we know that there are hundreds of Hydaelyn's chosen roaming around, though none hold a candle to what the WoL is capable of as far as we know - and while that's most likely just main-character-syndrome, making the WoL to be some sort of pseudo Primal would be a very interesting way to explain the power he holds.

 

I mean, here's another crazy theory. What if Hydaelyn is actually the one powering the WoL as a primal? 

 

 

 

This theory is going to be totally outlandish, and I apologize for that. But it may be fun to consider, even if it's crazy. 

 

We see throughout the 3.0 storyline that the WoL is reconnecting with the crystals one by one, which clearly represent Hydaelyn. But what if they were actually representative of just crystals? 

 

What if Hydaelyn actually decided that the best way to rid the world of the primal threat was by fighting them with a primal? I mean in the lesser of two evils, sense. Use one primal that she more or less has dominion over to take out the others, leaving only one? Yes it's absolutely bonkers, but we clearly see that the WoL is able to easily stand toe-to-toe with the other Primals. 

 

And I mean, like I said before, so many people are (figuratively) praying for the WoL's success that there's really no shortage of that type of power to back it up. Plus, with Hydaelyn backing him, the WoL has easy access to the crystals for a power source.

 

All of this, of course, leads up to the Warrior of Darkness showing up to turn out the light, so to speak. After all, we can't leave a Primal alive.

 

 

 

 

 

I mean, it's a crazy theory, yeah. Do I think it's likely at all? Not a chance in hell. But it's still a fun thought exercise.

[Merri]

 

 

Finally, why does everyone vaguely remember his face, just because they were at Carteneau? He's an average-sized Hyur, on a battlefield of thousands. Even if he's kicking ass the whole time, the vast majority of soldiers aren't going to see him. Derplander wasn't wiped from their minds; he's an idea in the back of their consciousness.

 

Figure I might chime in here. As far as this is concerned, they address this in the legacy storyline. New players come in on a carriage in ARR, and are simply new adventurers arriving to the realm much as legacy players did back during the opening of 1.0.

 

Legacy players, however, return from the teleportation spell Louisoix invoked.

I made a GIF of that scene awhile back which you can see here. At the end of the legacy ARR storyline, everyone does remember you, as Hydaelyn had only blocked their memories of you for one reason or another. Cid actually knows before everyone else, as his third eye let him see past the blocked memories, but he keeps it a secret from everyone else. You share a neat scene with him aboard the Enterprise as you go to fight Garuda, where he reminisces with you about the last time you were on the airship together and defeated Nael van Darnus back during 1.0. His reasoning for keeping it a secret is that if the world knew their hero had returned, the eyes of the world would be on them, their enemies included. Could also be a valid reason as to why Hydaelyn had blocked everyone's memories. She didn't want attention drawn to you, so you could work unhindered.

 

After you defeat the Ultima Weapon, she returns everyone elses memories and they all remember you and your deeds from 1.0. This continued on into Heavensward, even. At one point some one is going on about your accomplishments, and if you were a legacy player who completed the 1.0 main scenario, they mention you've defeated two legatus' (Darnus and Baelsar) as opposed to new players who've only defeated one, that being Baelsar. Suffice it to say, people are well acquainted with your deeds from 1.0 after Hydaelyn returns everyone's memories.

 

As far as it goes, I uploaded a handful of the legacy cutscenes awhile back.

 

 

[Kage]

I would hesitate to say that we -know- primals to be dead beings. The few primals we have seen, yes. In fact, we know very little about the primal nature. The ones who do are those that we oppose, the Ascians. How can we then talk about definitives?

 

Eikons may be similar in nature to the current primals but they pose a far more serious threat the likes of which we do not know as they are far more powerful. The first example of eikons we have are The Warring Triad. We know that the Garleans did not just make up the word 'eikon' but are actually using this derived from the Allag who captured and sealed the three eikons, The Warring Triad to power their Floating Continent, Azys Lla.

 

The ascians taught people who rebelled against the Allag the power to summon primals, perhaps even Eikons?

 

After all, what has sustained the Warring Triad's existence these 5000 years?

 

If the 'primal' must be dead, then what does Phoenix represent? We have been told -so far- that Phoenix is a Primal, but Phoenix was not something that Louisoix worshipped and certainly not the people who were praying at the locations when they powered his botched spell that turned him into Phoenix.

 

 

I'm not totally convinced the the WoL is becoming similar to a primal, but it's something to theorize about. In fact, OP, after many people started to finish the MSQ, there were others on Reddit and the official forums who wonder if perhaps the fact that we are gaining powers almost above gods is a symbol and sign of how we are in fact 'hope incarnate' and that this hope from others is fueling our own deeds and is allowing us to be much much stronger.

[Hammersmith]

As for pulling heros out as primal avatars or stand alones

(Shiva, Moggle Mog)

 

 

The lifestream exists, and everything passes through it.  If a hero dies, they go back into it. If a God dies, they go into it, if a Primal dies, they go back into it.  Which means everrrrry thing they did, and were, soul and person and otherwise, aetherically, hits that stream and...stays there.

 

Souls get recycled, so the cutscene we see in the MSQ tells us (Sans say: Ascians, who cheat), but everything they were, in terms of aetherically, is wound up in the lifestream and for all intents and purposes, never really leaves once it hits. Once you're dead, you're part of the lifestream, atherically, forever.

 

 

There's a good chance that enough belief and power can pull that memory, that ....Echo... of a person's aether out of the lifestream.  

 

It means anything that had a hard enough impact and was "Large" enough to leave a big enough echo could get pulled back as a primal, with enough belief and enough crystals powering it.  I doubt we'll ever see PEASANT MC PEASANT THE PRIMAL, but the idea of something like say...Mythril Heart or Iron Eater...if anyone started a cult around those two dead but having existed heros?  

 

They might show up.

 

They might be -pissed-.

 

 

Actually I would love to be able to take a mythril/iron avatar form as a WAR....even if it meant being a mini primal.

 

 

That would be -badass-.

[Gegenji]

They might show up.

 

They might be -pissed-.

But that's the thing - it's not actually them.

 

Moggle Mog is the Moogles' idea of what their legendary king was like.

 

The Enkidu that Gilgamesh summoned is not his actual stalward companion.

 

Shiva is nothing more than what Iceheart thinks she is - and gets told off by Hraesvalgr and told that her Shiva is not his Shiva.

 

And, I may have misread it, but the Bahamut that was held in Dalamund - not actually the original Bahamut - he is a Primal based on the original Bahamut.

 

They are nothing more than ideas and concepts being given shape through belief and the power of crystallized aether. So Hammersmith making himself the physical vessel for the Primal of Mythril Heart of Iron Eater would only be him housing his idea of one of those two - not the actual person.

 

As such, there needs to be no original person. No death. Just a story or an idea and enough faith and power behind to make it manifest.

 

 

[Kage]

As such, there needs to be no original person. No death. Just a story or an idea and enough faith and power behind to make it manifest.

 

 

Isolated spoiler'd point for emphasis. Bolded for more even.

 

Hence why I think it's not impossible for the WoL to either be given powers not unlike the primals and eikons or even the idea that the WoL might need to FIGHT SOMEONE ELSE'S MANIFESTATION OF THE WOL !