Looking for feedback for a potentially lore-breaking character.

[Chris Ganale]

....Well, that escalated quickly.

 

In lieu of getting dragged into the silliness of he said/she said, whether or not people are going to get up in arms about the character, or fighting over if this character's a good idea, I will simply restate my earlier commentary that I 100% support this idea and am making a note that this character of yours, before or after it comes out what they are, would find an immediate friend in Chao Lingshen.

 

On the other hand, if you got near her before it came out, that might accidentally rapidly accelerate the Robot Reveal, by way of Chao's companion being able to detect other Allagan machines in the vicinity.

[-no longer matters-]

While the idea is extremely interesting, you must understand that the community may not accept it as a whole, due to the fact some people might consider it slightly Mary-Sueish (and before anyone says I'm lying: Please don't try to bullshit them. Some people DO avoid roleplaying with characters like this. Denying it doesn't help OP.)

 

I have no qualms with most character ideas, it's lore-bending, but not breaking. It's completely possible Allagans built humanoid robots. I personally only have a problem with people who are demi-gods ("I AM THE INCARNATION OF BAHAMUT AND I IDENTIFY AS GARUDA-KIN!!1!") 

 

So while I personally wouldn't mind rping with you (So long as you don't make your character overly OP or overbearing to other people's RP) Some people are more into the gritty-hyper-realitic rp and might avoid you for this. Take it was a warning.

I kind of agree with Sasha here 100%

 

Personally I don't think it's out of the realm of plausible, but just watch who you mention it around, and really only push it forward around a trusted group and you should be 110% fine. I know people that RP some ridiculous stuff, but only people close to them know about it. Everyone else just see's them as another person.

 

Just know who, and when to reveal it to.

[mongi291]

RE: Allagan mannequin/android not being feasible because they haven't shown that technology , have I missed something? The mannequins in the game seem remarkably "convincing" to me and they're explicitly called mannequins as they are not "flesh-and-blood soldiers." For what we know they can abdroids, I don't know if Eorzeans really have a concept of what am android may be but we know the mannequins are not flesh and blood.

 

 

They don't even have faces, and they're likely mindless as well.

 

 

 

 

Also, if the character is already made, Retcons are still possible. The OP asked for advice and thoughts, and we're giving them.

I know they are faceless and mindless. I thought that it could be possible if a lone Allagan scientist kept one of those manikins for himself and gave it a face and a mind.

[LiadansWhisper]

 

 

I know they are faceless and mindless. I thought that it could be possible if a lone Allagan scientist kept one of those manikins for himself and gave it a face and a mind.

 

It's possible, it's just a bit of a stretch (especially given that we don't really know how advanced the mannequins are in terms of ability to interact/sentience).

[Oli!]

 

 

I know they are faceless and mindless. I thought that it could be possible if a lone Allagan scientist kept one of those manikins for himself and gave it a face and a mind.

 

It's more than just a face and a mind, really. For a machine to be a machine while still not knowing it, they would have to:

 

-- Not only eat and drink, but starve and stop functioning if they don't.

 

-- Crap and piss after they eat and drink.

 

-- Sweat.

 

-- Not only breathe, but require breath.

 

-- Take visible, human-like damage, regardless of whether or not they can feel it (bruise, bleed, break, etcetera.)

 

-- Weigh within the normal confines of a humanoid (the metal, stone, etc, that Allagans make their tech out of is heavy stuff).

 

-- Not interact in fishy ways when encountered with energy or metals (magnetism, etc).

 

-- Not interact in fishy ways when encountered with liquid (short-out, lose articulation in their joints, etc).

 

-- Have facial expressions that are built-in and perfectly articulated, something that we, with all our current real-world technology, are not yet capable of properly doing.

 

-- Probably some other stuff I didn't think about.

 

 

 

Now, other things aside, as soon as you've gotten to the point where you've built a robot that can take a shit and bleeds when you cut their robo-arm off, not only have you gotten to the point of Questionably Robotic, but also the point of Questionably Useful. Why would you go through all the time and thought needed to build a working digestive system for a robot, especially when your civilization has done a bang-up job of growing their cloning and biological industries?

 

It just seems unnecessary. I think you could get more mileage out of an Allagan clone.

[mongi291]

 

 

I know they are faceless and mindless. I thought that it could be possible if a lone Allagan scientist kept one of those manikins for himself and gave it a face and a mind.

 

It's more than just a face and a mind, really. For a machine to be a machine while still not knowing it, they would have to:

 

-- Not only eat and drink, but starve and stop functioning if they don't.

 

-- Crap and piss after they eat and drink.

 

-- Sweat.

 

-- Not only breathe, but require breath.

 

-- Take visible, human-like damage, regardless of whether or not they can feel it (bruise, bleed, break, etcetera.)

 

-- Weigh within the normal confines of a humanoid (the metal, stone, etc, that Allagans make their tech out of is heavy stuff).

 

-- Not interact in fishy ways when encountered with energy or metals (magnetism, etc).

 

-- Not interact in fishy ways when encountered with liquid (short-out, lose articulation in their joints, etc).

 

-- Have facial expressions that are built-in and perfectly articulated, something that we, with all our current real-world technology, are not yet capable of properly doing.

 

-- Probably some other stuff I didn't think about.

 

 

 

Now, other things aside, as soon as you've gotten to the point where you've built a robot that can take a shit and bleeds when you cut their robo-arm off, not only have you gotten to the point of Questionably Robotic, but also the point of Questionably Useful. Why would you go through all the time and thought needed to build a working digestive system for a robot, especially when your civilization has done a bang-up job of growing their cloning and biological industries?

 

It just seems unnecessary. I think you could get more mileage out of an Allagan clone.

But Allagan clones are identical to normal humans. I wanted to play a robot because, even if she doesn't know she's not human, she has to put up with the fact that she's different, as she doesn't know what emotions, love, etc... are.

Still, if playing a manikin is that much of an issue, I might as well delete the character, because I honestly don't know what else to do with her. And I'm not really a fan of retconning.

[Oli!]

 

 

But Allagan clones are identical to normal humans. I wanted to play a robot because, even if she doesn't know she's not human, she has to put up with the fact that she's different, as she doesn't know what emotions, love, etc... are.

Still, if playing a manikin is that much of an issue, I might as well delete the character, because I honestly don't know what else to do with her. And I'm not really a fan of retconning.

 

There are plenty of interesting things that you can do with clones, including but not limited to:

 

-- Pondering whether or not artificial life is really life.

 

-- Pondering whether or not you have a "soul."

 

-- Reflecting on your legacy as one of the last remaining living remnants of a power-hungry and honestly rather terrible society.

 

-- Reflecting on the fact that you have ties to a society that not only no one else has, but also happens to be dead.

 

-- Reflecting on memories embedded into your brain that may or may not be yours.

 

-- Are you really the person you're a clone of, or someone different?

 

-- People sure are gonna want to come after you in order to get some of that Allagan Knowledge Goodness.

 

 

 

 

See? Tons of stuff, and all good.

[mongi291]

 

 

But Allagan clones are identical to normal humans. I wanted to play a robot because, even if she doesn't know she's not human, she has to put up with the fact that she's different, as she doesn't know what emotions, love, etc... are.

Still, if playing a manikin is that much of an issue, I might as well delete the character, because I honestly don't know what else to do with her. And I'm not really a fan of retconning.

 

There are plenty of interesting things that you can do with clones, including but not limited to:

 

-- Pondering whether or not artificial life is really life.

 

-- Pondering whether or not you have a "soul."

 

-- Reflecting on your legacy as one of the last remaining living remnants of a power-hungry and honestly rather terrible society.

 

-- Reflecting on the fact that you have ties to a society that not only no one else has, but also happens to be dead.

 

-- Reflecting on memories embedded into your brain that may or may not be yours.

 

-- Are you really the person you're a clone of, or someone different?

 

-- People sure are gonna want to come after you in order to get some of that Allagan Knowledge Goodness.

 

 

 

 

See? Tons of stuff, and all good.

I see. But that means I have to do some major retconning (what little she recovered of her memory was two unknown men discussing about an unknown manikin, so... yeah), and everytime she interacted with someone, I had her act to reflect her lack of emotions as a robot.

[LiadansWhisper]

 

 

I see. But that means I have to do some major retconning (what little she recovered of her memory was two unknown men discussing about an unknown manikin, so... yeah), and everytime she interacted with someone, I had her act to reflect her lack of emotions as a robot.

 

If you go with the Allagan Clone idea, you could still be unaware that you are a clone, and you could still have the memory of the unknown people talking about a manikin.  She could still have a lack of emotions as a clone - maybe something went wrong, maybe she was traumatized and can't remember why but avoids emotions.  There are lots of options!

[Oli!]

 

 

I see. But that means I have to do some major retconning (what little she recovered of her memory was two unknown men discussing about an unknown manikin, so... yeah), and everytime she interacted with someone, I had her act to reflect her lack of emotions as a robot.

 

You can keep the emotionless nature. Some people have trouble expressing emotions. Others, due to upbringing or physical trauma, are incapable of expressing, understanding, or describing emotions. Maybe something went wrong in the cloning process. Maybe she was "programmed" that way (and we know that some form of mental programming exists for clones; the two encountered in the Crystal Tower storyline had the memories of their original copies imprinted into them).

[Lydia Lightfoot]

If she's still on another server at this point, then as soon as you transfer her, you're effectively wiping the slate clean anyway.

[mongi291]

If she's still on another server at this point, then as soon as you transfer her, you're effectively wiping the slate clean anyway.

She's already on Balmung. I already started RPing with her.

[Oli!]

If she's still on another server at this point, then as soon as you transfer her, you're effectively wiping the slate clean anyway.

She's already on Balmung. I already started RPing with her.

 

I would honestly just suggest retconning the character. It's not as bad as it sounds, and there are honestly more interesting, more open, and more lore-friendly approaches to the sort of themes you want to get at.

[Lydia Lightfoot]

If she's still on another server at this point, then as soon as you transfer her, you're effectively wiping the slate clean anyway.

She's already on Balmung. I already started RPing with her.

 

I would honestly just suggest retconning the character. It's not as bad as it sounds, and there are honestly more interesting, more open, and more lore-friendly approaches to the sort of themes you want to get at.

 

I agree with Oli. Don't waste the $18 by deleting and remaking. She's such a new character that it will undoubtedly have little to no impact on anyone else's RP for you to retcon her (it's unlikely that anyone even knows she isn't an ordinary organic anyway, so in a sense, it's a your-mind-only retcon). 

 

That said, I'd also like to suggest an entirely different thought: Consider abandoning the idea altogether and coming up with an entirely new concept for the character. The reason I suggest that is because it feels to me like this whole thing falls into the category of "special because of what she is", which is very challenging to execute without coming across as superficial or snowflakey. I mean no offense to you personally with that statement - that's been a general observation of mine over years of roleplaying. 

 

The more "deep" approach is instead to consider making a character that's "special because of who she is". That's defined by behavior and actions and personality, all of which largely have nothing to do with what someone happens to be. In fact, often if the what is itself overly emphasized and special, the who ends up feeling less significant and memorable.

 

Case in point: A man sees a robber steal the purse of an old woman. He chases the robber and tackles him, wrestling him into a locked hold until the police arrive, and saving the old woman's purse - a purse which contained not only her money, but medicine that she needs to take every few hours or she could become hospitalized. The man is lauded for his courage and bravery, his selfless risk and potential sacrifice for the sake of another is the stuff of gossip and local reputation, and for months afterwards he's hailed in his favorite bar as a hero.

 

Or, if he was an invincible alien from the planet Krypton, people on the street said "Oh, hey Superman," and continued on with their day without any further thought about what he'd done, because his what is so special that the who becomes less memorable.

[mongi291]

If she's still on another server at this point, then as soon as you transfer her, you're effectively wiping the slate clean anyway.

She's already on Balmung. I already started RPing with her.

 

I would honestly just suggest retconning the character. It's not as bad as it sounds, and there are honestly more interesting, more open, and more lore-friendly approaches to the sort of themes you want to get at.

 

I agree with Oli. Don't waste the $18 by deleting and remaking. She's such a new character that it will undoubtedly have little to no impact on anyone else's RP for you to retcon her (it's unlikely that anyone even knows she isn't an ordinary organic anyway, so in a sense, it's a your-mind-only retcon). 

 

That said, I'd also like to suggest an entirely different thought: Consider abandoning the idea altogether and coming up with an entirely new concept for the character. The reason I suggest that is because it feels to me like this whole thing falls into the category of "special because of what she is", which is very challenging to execute without coming across as superficial or snowflakey. I mean no offense to you personally with that statement - that's been a general observation of mine over years of roleplaying. 

 

The more "deep" approach is instead to consider making a character that's "special because of who she is". That's defined by behavior and actions and personality, all of which largely have nothing to do with what someone happens to be. In fact, often if the what is itself overly emphasized and special, the who ends up feeling less significant and memorable.

 

Case in point: A man sees a robber steal the purse of an old woman. He chases the robber and tackles him, wrestling him into a locked hold until the police arrive, and saving the old woman's purse - a purse which contained not only her money, but medicine that she needs to take every few hours or she could become hospitalized. The man is lauded for his courage and bravery, his selfless risk and potential sacrifice for the sake of another is the stuff of gossip and local reputation, and for months afterwards he's hailed in his favorite bar as a hero.

 

Or, if he was an invincible alien from the planet Krypton, people on the street said "Oh, hey Superman," and continued on with their day without any further thought about what he'd done, because his what is so special that the who becomes less memorable.

I am not a good enough RPer to let my character be defined by who she is instead than what she is. I just... can't do that. I never seem to pull that off, no matter where I'm RPing. I already struggle to give my characters a distinct personality.

[Lydia Lightfoot]

I am not a good enough RPer to let my character be defined by who she is instead than what she is. I just... can't do that. I never seem to pull that off, no matter where I'm RPing. I already struggle to give my characters a distinct personality.

 

I bet you're more capable than you believe!  

 

The best thing I can say about how to achieve that is not to try. That's part of the problem of the what I am approach - it comes across as too deliberate. The "trying" on the part of the player becomes obvious, and that obviousness can cause some people to become wary. They might worry that the player is "up to something", if that makes sense. 

 

So instead of going out of your way to try to intentionally be special... just roleplay. Be a relatively ordinary sort of character from an ordinary sort of background, and let who she is become defined by what she does, the adventures she finds herself involved in, and the amusing situations she encounters with her friends. I bet you've done that a lot on Isaulde, haven't you?

[mongi291]

I am not a good enough RPer to let my character be defined by who she is instead than what she is. I just... can't do that. I never seem to pull that off, no matter where I'm RPing. I already struggle to give my characters a distinct personality.

 

I bet you're more capable than you believe!  

 

The best thing I can say about how to achieve that is not to try. That's part of the problem of the what I am approach - it comes across as too deliberate. The "trying" on the part of the player becomes obvious, and that obviousness can cause some people to become wary. They might worry that the player is "up to something", if that makes sense. 

 

So instead of going out of your way to try to intentionally be special... just roleplay. Be a relatively ordinary sort of character from an ordinary sort of background, and let who she is become defined by what she does, the adventures she finds herself involved in, and the amusing situations she encounters with her friends. I bet you've done that a lot on Isaulde, haven't you?

Well, Isaulde is a Dark Knight, with a semi-tragic past (toned down from the original idea, though). She is an outlaw, having killed lots of Temple Knights to the point that she's been (ICly) confronted about it and almost arrested by Ser Paulecrain of the Heavens' Ward. She doesn't really open herself to others because she doesn't want to hurt them, as her life is a struggle against not only her enemies but her darkside (and she almost ICly killed someone due to that).

I wouldn't call that a "normal character".

[Oli!]

 

I am not a good enough RPer to let my character be defined by who she is instead than what she is. I just... can't do that. I never seem to pull that off, no matter where I'm RPing. I already struggle to give my characters a distinct personality.

 

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

Give it a go, you'll like RP more as a result.

[mongi291]

 

I am not a good enough RPer to let my character be defined by who she is instead than what she is. I just... can't do that. I never seem to pull that off, no matter where I'm RPing. I already struggle to give my characters a distinct personality.

 

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

Give it a go, you'll like RP more as a result.

I'd have to Fantasia + Name Change, but that'd cost me too much. And I'm too busy for a third character.

[Oli!]

 

I am not a good enough RPer to let my character be defined by who she is instead than what she is. I just... can't do that. I never seem to pull that off, no matter where I'm RPing. I already struggle to give my characters a distinct personality.

 

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

Give it a go, you'll like RP more as a result.

I'd have to Fantasia + Name Change, but that'd cost me too much. And I'm too busy for a third character.

 

 

Keep the character and name. Just change their concept.

[mongi291]

 

I am not a good enough RPer to let my character be defined by who she is instead than what she is. I just... can't do that. I never seem to pull that off, no matter where I'm RPing. I already struggle to give my characters a distinct personality.

 

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

Give it a go, you'll like RP more as a result.

I'd have to Fantasia + Name Change, but that'd cost me too much. And I'm too busy for a third character.

 

 

Keep the character and name. Just change their concept.

She's called Enigmatic Girl ingame. She doesn't even have an actual name, how can I have her be a "normal" character?

[Hyakki]

Make her enigmatic for another reason.

 

You've been given you plenty of suggestions on how to alter the character without completely abandoning the Allagan concept. Its up to you if you want to heed the advice or scrap her because it's too hard/time consuming/costly/whatever.

[mongi291]

Make her enigmatic for another reason.

 

You've been given you plenty of suggestions on how to alter the character without completely abandoning the Allagan concept. Its up to you if you want to heed the advice or scrap her because it's too hard/time consuming/costly/whatever.

I think I'll change her from an android to a clone. At least I don't have to retcon her completely.

[Branson Thorne]

I've retconned 3 times already. They wasn't involved in any deep RP and was pretty much just known by walkups only. Because of that, no harm no foul.

[mongi291]

In the end, I've decided to drop the idea entirely, and work on another character. Thanks for all the feedback, anyway.