IC interactions with the REAL WoL?

[Kellach Woods]

Well, in terms of the named Ixal ones, we have magical healing. Perhaps they get taken from the field and healed when they fall? Even if we dismiss those particular FATEs as impossible to repeat, it doesn't necessarily follow that no FATE represents a recurring issue. In fact, a great many FATEs appear to represent recurring problems, whether animals overrunning an area, Garleans testing new war machines, or people needing escort through dangerous areas.

 

As for levemetes, it's important that they be canon, because levequests are the whole basis of the adventuring economy in Eorzea. Individuals or groups go to the Adventurers' Guild or nearest levemete and commission a leve to take care of some problem that they're having, and the levemete hands it via leveplate to an appropriately authorized adventurer who completes the task. Upon verification and turning in the leveplate, the levemete pays the adventurer.

 

I come from a school of RP (which runs all the way back to EQ ) where the world is integrated into the RP. If the world says, "hey, around here, coeurls tend to run amok" through a FATE, then that's the case. If it says, "there's this story about this mysterious woman from some other reality," then yep, that's true too. There's a famous investigator named Hildibrand, rocs periodically assault Camp Dragonhead, and yes, some pink-haired woman was allegedly teleporting around and being reported on by the various newspapers (which apparently only target the rich and adventurers :?). If SE says, "this is why this works," then that's how it works, and that's that. I accept it because that's the stated lore, even if I don't agree with it .

 

There's an octopus demon thing manning the registration at the Colisseum, Greg exists and willed his companion back to life as a primal, Godbert Manderville runs around in his skivvies and nobody bats an eye except an inquisitor that REALLY LOVES his line of work, Lolorito drives restaurants out of business just because he's a mustache twirling villain, Ul'dah wiped out Sil'dih with a zombie plague and there was a city-wide conspiracy to hide that truth, the Mamool Ja have a ceremonial mating dance that's too lewd for life, Moogles deliver mail and get crunk (or vice-versa), there's an idol Elezen bard group looking for their worldwide debut, the greatest weaponsmith in all the land is crafting weapons-grade kettles, Brickmans from Dragon Quest somehow made their way over to Eorzea and everyone was suitably confused (I suspect the Thug somehow brought them over here, we're on to you, thug), Kain actually existed in Ishgard's lore and so did Mog in the Moghome moogles' lore.

 

Need I go on?

[K'nahli]

I'm not sure I'm getting the part where people are suggesting that the WoL from the cutscenes might represent someone else entirely when the exact same person represented us in the Heavensward cinematic.

[Aaron]

I just know that cat girl is probably real tired of having to fuck that same horny Roegadyn in that Costa De Sol fate.

 

You'd think she'd quit after going to him every what 30 minutes?

 

Goodness gracious it's probably like throwing a penny down a volcano.

[Dis]

I look at it this way.  Final Fantasy XIV is basically a low-scale shonen anime anyway.  Have you seen the way certain NPC's fight and stuff? It all seems legit to me. 

 

A game based on realism, it isn't. 

 

That said, Glioca has never interacted with the WoL personally, but has been in a several-mile vicinity during various events (such as Steps of Faith) where the WoL was stated/seen to be present.  None of my other characters are that far along or that developed, and the other character I have who is is literally -just- now learning to punch things that aren't totally stationary.

[Kellach Woods]

She work hard for the money.

 

So hard for the money.

 

She work hard for the money so you better treat her right.

[Evaleigh]

Everyone knows the REAL WoL is mute.

[Flynn Bladebreaker]

I'm not sure I'm getting the part where people are suggesting that the WoL from the cutscenes might represent someone else entirely when the exact same person represented us in the Heavensward cinematic.

Comment by a dev:

 

"So yes, the Midlander male, Miqo’te female, Roegadyn male, Elezen female, and Lalafell female in the recent trailers are in fact the same ones that appeared in the 1.0 trailer! (Yes, the black mage is the Elezen female from the morbol party, not the snooty male from the Midlander’s party. The robe & hat conceal some of her more distinguishing features, and we all know there was no bust size adjustment feature back in 1.0).

 

But that still leaves one question—was the party an actual party, or were they merely symbols meant to represent you, the players? Well, you can breathe easy knowing they are both. They all ventured into Eorzea at the same time as you did. They all did similar quests, and lived through similar adventures. They exist as your characters exist (in a virtual world-sort of existence). The fact that you haven’t come across them is probably the same reason you haven’t come across my character, Amanda Hugginkyss (or maybe you have? /wink). They’re just somewhere else. Though, maybe you’ll stumble across their party in the future. Or maybe you won’t. How’s that for committing to an answer?"

 

Though I can't find the original source, this basically says Derplander and pals exist like our characters do, we just haven't seen them until recently in 3.1, confirming our WoL isn't Derplander.

[Aaron]

Fucking mind blown.

[Val]

I'm not sure I'm getting the part where people are suggesting that the WoL from the cutscenes might represent someone else entirely when the exact same person represented us in the Heavensward cinematic.

Comment by a dev:

 

"So yes, the Midlander male, Miqo’te female, Roegadyn male, Elezen female, and Lalafell female in the recent trailers are in fact the same ones that appeared in the 1.0 trailer! (Yes, the black mage is the Elezen female from the morbol party, not the snooty male from the Midlander’s party. The robe & hat conceal some of her more distinguishing features, and we all know there was no bust size adjustment feature back in 1.0).

 

But that still leaves one question—was the party an actual party, or were they merely symbols meant to represent you, the players? Well, you can breathe easy knowing they are both. They all ventured into Eorzea at the same time as you did. They all did similar quests, and lived through similar adventures. They exist as your characters exist (in a virtual world-sort of existence). The fact that you haven’t come across them is probably the same reason you haven’t come across my character, Amanda Hugginkyss (or maybe you have? /wink). They’re just somewhere else. Though, maybe you’ll stumble across their party in the future. Or maybe you won’t. How’s that for committing to an answer?"

 

Though I can't find the original source, this basically says Derplander and pals exist like our characters do, we just haven't seen them until recently in 3.1, confirming our WoL isn't Derplander.

 

Reading this just sounds like their usual dodgy answers for lore and at the same time saying none of them exist in your game because your character is taking their place. Otherwise, it's just a cutscene for a game. There doesn't have to be a story behind it.

[Warren Castille]

I look at it this way.  Final Fantasy XIV is basically a low-scale shonen anime anyway.  Have you seen the way certain NPC's fight and stuff? It all seems legit to me. 

 

A game based on realism, it isn't. 

 

I implore you to instead look at how the majority of the NPCs fight. Realism it isn't, but only the exceptional few manage to break through the anime barrier. I'm yet to see a rank-and-file Brass Blade do more than swing his sword mindlessly and die to ants out in Thanalan.

[Kellach Woods]

I implore you to instead look at how the majority of the NPCs fight. Realism it isn't, but only the exceptional few manage to break through the anime barrier. I'm yet to see a rank-and-file Brass Blade do more than swing his sword mindlessly and die to ants out in Thanalan.

To be fair, Thanalan ants are notorious for being dicks.

 

Especially around and/or in Cutter's Cry.

[Aaron]

I look at it this way.  Final Fantasy XIV is basically a low-scale shonen anime anyway.  Have you seen the way certain NPC's fight and stuff? It all seems legit to me. 

 

A game based on realism, it isn't. 

 

I implore you to instead look at how the majority of the NPCs fight. Realism it isn't, but only the exceptional few manage to break through the anime barrier. I'm yet to see a rank-and-file Brass Blade do more than swing his sword mindlessly and die to ants out in Thanalan.

When you ignore the fact those ants are monster sized this sounds kinda hilarious.

[Dis]

There are sliding scales of people in the world.  Some who are stronger, some who are weaker, and some who are in-between.  It's easy to recognize that some NPC's are going to be weaker, but there are going to be some who are stronger, and those roles shouldn't be strictly relegated to NPC's.

 

It takes all kinds to make up the world.  I myself have a range of strength in characters.  I have one very strong (Glioca), two moderately strong (Aelden, Zehra) and the rest are moderate to mildly skilled, depending on their field of expertise (Dark, Reimu, Ulos'a, Galiena, Liviana), but it stands to reason that there are people who are gifted or skilled enough to battle alongside the WoL, even if not specifically shoulder-to-shoulder with him/her/them, and those should and can also be player characters. 

 

I mean, the idea was there were how many dozens at the Steps of Faith to repel the dragons the first time?  There's no reason that someone can't play a character who was there, either who came from Ishgard itself to come out and defend, or those from outside the city who came up on the flank of the invasion to try and help pincer them.

 

And yeah, those ants aren't ants.  They're man-sized ants.  That's not exactly just little ants.  And they 'die' because there's no way to respawn NPC's except grinder, and that gives downtime in the quest of the NPC's vanishing where the players have to fight the mobs in the Fates and such on their own. 

 

I mean, you CAN keep them alive with healing.  Some NPC's DO heal and such.  We see it in the MSQ.  They're not all suffering from meatgrinder syndrome, just some of them.

[Val]

it stands to reason that there are people who are gifted or skilled enough to battle alongside the WoL, even if not specifically shoulder-to-shoulder with him/her/them, and those should and can also be player characters. 

 

 

I'm just going to have to respectfully disagree with this. No characters should ever fight alongside/interact with the Warrior of Light, shoulder-to-shoulder or not. You could make a character that is powerful enough to stand toe to toe with a primal solo. But why would you? Not only does that not sound remotely entertaining, but it's kind of taking a crap on all the other RPers in the world around you. I feel like it's kind of a respect thing. It's also the same reason (primarily for me, at least) that I abhor seeing people RP NPC characters in the middle of the city. No one can, or should, be able to stop them because they're powerful PC-RPed NPCs. If people want to RP them, do so privately. It's disrespectful to take them publicly.

[Dis]

it stands to reason that there are people who are gifted or skilled enough to battle alongside the WoL, even if not specifically shoulder-to-shoulder with him/her/them, and those should and can also be player characters. 

 

 

I'm just going to have to respectfully disagree with this. No characters should ever fight alongside/interact with the Warrior of Light, shoulder-to-shoulder or not. You could make a character that is powerful enough to stand toe to toe with a primal solo. But why would you? Not only does that not sound remotely entertaining, but it's kind of taking a crap on all the other RPers in the world around you. I feel like it's kind of a respect thing. It's also the same reason (primarily for me, at least) that I abhor seeing people RP NPC characters in the middle of the city. No one can, or should, be able to stop them because they're powerful PC-RPed NPCs. If people want to RP them, do so privately. It's disrespectful to take them publicly.

 

I did specify that in scenarios like at Steps where there were more than just eight people fighting against the oncoming horde.  Mercenary companies typically include people of all sorts of strength levels and capabilities.

[Val]

it stands to reason that there are people who are gifted or skilled enough to battle alongside the WoL, even if not specifically shoulder-to-shoulder with him/her/them, and those should and can also be player characters. 

 

 

I'm just going to have to respectfully disagree with this. No characters should ever fight alongside/interact with the Warrior of Light, shoulder-to-shoulder or not. You could make a character that is powerful enough to stand toe to toe with a primal solo. But why would you? Not only does that not sound remotely entertaining, but it's kind of taking a crap on all the other RPers in the world around you. I feel like it's kind of a respect thing. It's also the same reason (primarily for me, at least) that I abhor seeing people RP NPC characters in the middle of the city. No one can, or should, be able to stop them because they're powerful PC-RPed NPCs. If people want to RP them, do so privately. It's disrespectful to take them publicly.

 

I did specify that in scenarios like at Steps where there were more than just eight people fighting against the oncoming horde.  Mercenary companies typically include people of all sorts of strength levels and capabilities.

 

That's all well and good, but my response was about the idea of being on the same power level as the Warrior of Light. If people wanna be at mass events, by all means. Just don't say your character saved the WoL or that you became his best friend or some other crap.

[Dis]

Strictly 'as strong' as the Warrior of Light, then no, because it's obvious that the WoL has the specific blessing of Hydaelyn.  That said, I definitely agree, none of this 'saving the WoL' or 'best friends' with him/her/them.  I'm all for lore stretching, but that's more like lore snapping.

[Kellach Woods]

I saved the WoL from hunger once.

 

Well, they looked hungry at the time and I was roasting some miqabobs.

 

Okay so maybe I just gave them one out of sheer fanboyism.

[Paradox]

You know the funny thing? There's nothing that says you haven't met the WoL. But how would you *know* exactly? He/She/It is given menial jobs by 75% of the fucking population, ALL THE TIME. For all you know, you may have met them, asked them to fetch you something, like a barrel of squid, and paid them a pittance of gil because you really needed it, and it was a shop emergency. I'm just sayin. The peasants interact with the WoL daily. They just generally dunno who the fuck they are except 'this person solves problems'. For all anyone knows, YOU could be the Warrior of Light. Funny how that works just how the Devs said..

 

Food for thought.

[Warren Castille]

Sliding scale of power, for sure, but it's probably something closer to 90% "normal" > 8% "adventurer" > 2% "superpower" > "WoL"

 

Roll a one million sided die. If you roll over 920,000 you can be awesome. If not, you're a part of the world and you die to FATE enemies.

 

You know the funny thing? There's nothing that says you haven't met the WoL. But how would you *know* exactly? He/She/It is given menial jobs by 75% of the fucking population, ALL THE TIME. For all you know, you may have met them, asked them to fetch you something, like a barrel of squid, and paid them a pittance of gil because you really needed it, and it was a shop emergency. I'm just sayin. The peasants interact with the WoL daily. They just generally dunno who the fuck they are except 'this person solves problems'. For all anyone knows, YOU could be the Warrior of Light. Funny how that works just how the Devs said..

 

Food for thought.

 

Again, debatable. We're given a clear list of the MSQ quests the WoL does. We're not questgivers. Anything beyond that is making it up as we go along.

[Paradox]

Sliding scale of power, for sure, but it's probably something closer to 90% "normal" > 8% "adventurer" > 2% "superpower" > "WoL"

 

Roll a one million sided die. If you roll over 920,000 you can be awesome. If not, you're a part of the world and you die to FATE enemies.

 

Honestly, as long as they don't say 'I'm related to X NPC', or 'I'm best friends with X NPC' or 'I can drop any Primal/Dragon/etc with one hit all by myself' or whatnot, then they can be strong. Then they can be strong enough to help down a major enemy like a Primal or a dragon lieutenant. If they have the Echo or mooks to throw in front of them or anything, the Lore says it's possible, so I'm not going to tell them what they can and can't be. Not everyone wants to be the 'everyman', and saying someone is a bad roleplayer because they want to be strong is not only judgmental, but it's flat wrong. I've known many good roleplayers who've played strong characters. /shrug/ And 'strong' is also a matter of opinion and situation as well. This idea that a group of people can say 'you can only be awesome if we say so or X happens' is bad enough, but the fact people listen to it makes me even sadder. And it is policing, no matter how you spin it.

[Warren Castille]

Sliding scale of power, for sure, but it's probably something closer to 90% "normal" > 8% "adventurer" > 2% "superpower" > "WoL"

 

Roll a one million sided die. If you roll over 920,000 you can be awesome. If not, you're a part of the world and you die to FATE enemies.

 

Honestly, as long as they don't say 'I'm related to X NPC', or 'I'm best friends with X NPC' or 'I can drop any Primal/Dragon/etc with one hit all by myself' or whatnot, then they can be strong. Then they can be strong enough to help down a major enemy like a Primal or a dragon lieutenant. If they have the Echo or mooks to throw in front of them or anything, the Lore says it's possible, so I'm not going to tell them what they can and can't be. Not everyone wants to be the 'everyman', and saying someone is a bad roleplayer because they want to be strong is not only judgmental, but it's flat wrong. I've known many good roleplayers who've played strong characters. /shrug/ And 'strong' is also a matter of opinion and situation as well. This idea that a group of people can say 'you can only be awesome if we say so or X happens' is bad enough, but the fact people listen to it makes me even sadder. And it is policing, no matter how you spin it.

 

No one is saying that anyone not playing an "everyman" is a bad roleplayer. Consider your point though: People without the Echo regularly slaying primals? The first thing Ifrit does is try to Temper people, and Levi does it as a matter of desperation. Garuda does it when things get tense, too. So if you're helping to down a primal and you -don'-t have the echo, you're one of the extremely lucky people to not come out of the fight dead or a mindslave. We're discussing specifically knowing the Warrior of Light (which means you were present for one of the specific primal killings, or the MSQ) and tangentially places of power (the weekly/daily/FATEs we can't tell have any actual precedence for lore basis).

 

I'm not the police, no matter how you spin it.

[Paradox]

The discussion also went into knowing specific NPCs far early on, not just the WoL, so it kind of went off topic from the beginning. And then it always gets into discussions about power levels, lore about other things, and then it goes here and there and everywhere. We've already determined more or less knowing the WoL directly is impossible more or less since they have no representation in game other than ourselves. So all one can hope to do is be in the same place at the same time, without seeing them. Admittedly even if you did see them, you'd never know. Even if you were at the primal battle *with* them, which one of the eight or more is the WoL? There's not a little token on their head determining it, so honestly IC interactions with ARR's WoL really wouldn't be possible. Now, interactions with the 1.0 Warriors of Light might have been possible since there were more of them, so someone from before the Calamity might can say "Oh yeah, I met that guy" Well. Wait, no, can't remember them, that's right. So yeah, knowing them IC might be impossible as a direct point of view.

 

But when it went off topic into power levels, what you can and can't do, etc, and everyone was responding to that, I just put my two cents in about that whole mess. /shrug.

[Warren Castille]

The discussion also went into knowing specific NPCs far early on, not just the WoL, so it kind of went off topic from the beginning. And then it always gets into discussions about power levels, lore about other things, and then it goes here and there and everywhere. We've already determined more or less knowing the WoL directly is impossible more or less since they have no representation in game other than ourselves. So all one can hope to do is be in the same place at the same time, without seeing them. Admittedly even if you did see them, you'd never know. Even if you were at the primal battle *with* them, which one of the eight or more is the WoL? There's not a little token on their head determining it, so honestly IC interactions with ARR's WoL really wouldn't be possible. Now, interactions with the 1.0 Warriors of Light might have been possible since there were more of them, so someone from before the Calamity might can say "Oh yeah, I met that guy" Well. Wait, no, can't remember them, that's right. So yeah, knowing them IC might be impossible as a direct point of view.

 

But when it went off topic into power levels, what you can and can't do, etc, and everyone was responding to that, I just put my two cents in about that whole mess. /shrug.

 

That's an entire retraction from your point about people being able to interact with them.

 

You know the funny thing? There's nothing that says you haven't met the WoL. But how would you *know* exactly? He/She/It is given menial jobs by 75% of the fucking population, ALL THE TIME. For all you know, you may have met them, asked them to fetch you something, like a barrel of squid, and paid them a pittance of gil because you really needed it, and it was a shop emergency.

 

So can we know him or not? I understand wanting to say yes and not no to people wanting to do creative things, but this is a little more divisive than just "sure, go for it."

 

It doesn't change the various levels of power random roleplayers can hope to attain, nor it is "policing" what people say they can do. The premise sets itself: The WoL marches into Ishgard for 3.0 alone, with his allies defeated and missing. Anyone wanting to add onto that by showing up and helping is free to write their own fanfiction, but the story of the game will not ever reflect that.

 

To repeat: No one is policing what anyone else can or cannot do. The conversation is on what's most believable and how to best "fit in" to the world's lore. NOT the community's lore: The actual, MSQ-based given lore bits we have as of this patch. Being the best friend of a major NPC is problematic.

 

"Oh' date=' I was Drizz't's/Aragorn's/Rand's/Frodo's/Estinien's best mate in school, we're totally best buds."[/quote']

[Paradox]

It's not so much divisive but it's both possible and impossible. Like Schrodinger's Miqo'te.  Ugh, describing it is a chore with my head pounding and I know I'm not saying what I'm actually getting at. How to put it. I guess basically the idea is, even if you met them it wouldn't matter, because you wouldn't be able to describe them accurately, because there is no accurate way to do so, because the WoL is everyone doing the MSQ and as of right now there's no visible representation of them in-game like there is derplander. So you can't really interact with them and know it's them, because they only exist as the situation demands because to everyone else they're just an adventurer. And the events occurring around them likely would just be rumor to the general public, or news reports. And no pictures.

 

Edit: I don't think Estinien had a best mate in school. He was kind of a dick.