Popcorn in Eorzea?

[Kiera Hawkeye]

With the recent openings of pizzeria's in Eorzea, a question occurred to me. Would there be popcorn? Similar to our modern day theater popcorn? I know that we have millioncorn, but are there any specific mentions of popped corn somewhere, in a CUL leve possibly?

 

Thank you!

[Kilieit]

Wikipedia says that the earliest archaeological evidence of popcorn is from Mexico around 3600 BC.

 

Maybe it's an ancient New World delicacy that Merlwyb and her explorers retrieved the recipe for (at the same time as millioncorn for cultivation)?

 

I don't have any sources that it definitely exists, but we know millioncorn exists, originates from the New World, and has been brought back to Eorzea. We know the culinary equipment needed to make popcorn also exists. So it's possible someone's invented it!

 

...I'd be curious to see if there is a CUL reference to it though.

[Sounsyy]

As my current levequest project is 78% done and I just did a quick search of all levequests from Unsynwilf Greensleeves, I can say with 99.5% certainty popcorn does not show up in any CUL leve or quest.

 

That said, millioncorn has been grown in Eorzea since the Year 1500, they have the means to make "popcorn" and several CUL levequests and recipes do make references to other millioncorn-made foods, like grits. It wouldn't be unreasonable to have popcorn already invented or to just have a restaurant invent it themselves. The means and technology are there, even if the only people to have hypothetically thus far made popcorn are from Mamook in the west.

[Amnesic]

The more important question...would they use butter or cheese?

 

But, as everyone else said above, it seems believable that it may exist at some point.. It's just exploded corn kernels, really.

[Kilieit]

Would the first person to season their popcorn with salt instead of sugar / sugar instead of salt be heralded as a genius, or spurned as a madman?!

 

I need to ask Tin if anyone's asked for pineapple on their pizza yet...

[ExAtomos]

 

I need to ask Tin if anyone's asked for pineapple on their pizza yet...

 

Of course they have.

 

I've had folks murmur a bit about pizza being too modern, etc. for Eorzea. I even tried to preempt this issue by posting a link to the history of pizza on the webflyer for Stellazzio Pizzeria (spoiler: pizza has been around a loooong time). We have ALL the fixin's for pizzas in game (even pineapple), but what we DON'T have is a specific CUL recipe for pizza and I think folks aren't keen on saying a food item exists in Eorzea until it shows up on the CUL recipe list. /shrug

 

So, the thing here is (like with a lot of lore questions) "Is it /plausible/?" Yes, just like pizza, popcorn is plausible.

 

Riding the segue... I think Stellazzio is the only pizzeria thus far. I would love to franchise out to the other city states if anyone wants to get in on this turnkey operation (I'm dyin' here. x'D) BUT... if anyone wants to open up some /competition/... HOT DAMN let's rumble!

[Maril]

The more important question...would they use butter or cheese?

 

But, as everyone else said above, it seems believable that it may exist at some point.. It's just exploded corn kernels, really.

 

They would use salt, because salt is evidently the better popcorn seasoning. 

 

On topic though, I don't think you'd break the world by introducing popcorn to it. I think there's quite the potential for things to be ported over - I certainly do this in the realms of alcohol and mixing drinks. The only twist I spin on things is that I may replace certain flavours/fruits etc with something that is from Eorzea. Example: Rolanberry instead of strawberry.

[Mae]

I'm very much of the opinion that we can't rely on or expect the Devs to include every single plant, animal, and the like that would make up the game's ecosystems through either inventory items or mentions in quests/leves/etc -- it'd make the game's file size too big. So I run on the assumption that if it's reasonable that something would exist (we have the in-game climates that would support whatever) and/or there are related examples, then until the Devs step in and specifically say that it doesn't exist, it's fair game. And even if they do come out and say something doesn't exist, there's likely something that DOES exist that would make for a decent substitute.

 

Like coffee. I honestly had an argument with someone prior to 2.4 about the existence of coffee. My only way to get them to drop it and stop being disruptive (couldn't /blist, they were an LS member at the time) was to say that it was a coffee substitute made from roasted acorns, which is a real thing. 

 

I take a similar approach to how a specific food is made -- if the technology to cook it exists/would be feasible to make in the game's setting, it's fair game. I had a similar argument (with the same person I did with the coffee, actually) over ice cream. They said it wasn't possible without freezers, but all you need to make it is milk, cream, sugar, two seal-able jars of different sizes, ice and rock salt or ice shards, and about twenty minutes.

 

So if you really think about it, there's... not a lot of food that couldn't exist in Eorzea. Off the top of my head... maybe astronaut ice-cream and anything that was specifically made to be cooked only sous-vide style might be 'out'. And maybe waffles, because I don't know how to make an Eorzean waffle iron off the top of my head beyond "magic!". But hamburgers, pizza, french fries, grilled cheese sandwiches, bacon McMuffins, Hot Pockets, doughnuts... they're all actually feasible with the game's represented cooking techniques and inventory items.

[Kilieit]

> hot pockets

 

The other day I was chatting with Tin about the existence/invention of calzone - our characters were Eating Pizza Wrong™ and Tin's alt was folding his over. It's only a matter of time!

[Nako Vesh]

I would be shocked if no one in Eorzea ever dropped a grain or seed on something hot, and went, "Huh, maybe I should eat it."

[Valence]

Well; at least one guy tried to eat Coblyns so...

 

I'm very much of the opinion that we can't rely on or expect the Devs to include every single plant, animal, and the like that would make up the game's ecosystems through either inventory items or mentions in quests/leves/etc -- it'd make the game's file size too big. So I run on the assumption that if it's reasonable that something would exist (we have the in-game climates that would support whatever) and/or there are related examples, then until the Devs step in and specifically say that it doesn't exist, it's fair game. And even if they do come out and say something doesn't exist, there's likely something that DOES exist that would make for a decent substitute.

 

Like coffee. I honestly had an argument with someone prior to 2.4 about the existence of coffee. My only way to get them to drop it and stop being disruptive (couldn't /blist, they were an LS member at the time) was to say that it was a coffee substitute made from roasted acorns, which is a real thing. 

 

I take a similar approach to how a specific food is made -- if the technology to cook it exists/would be feasible to make in the game's setting, it's fair game. I had a similar argument (with the same person I did with the coffee, actually) over ice cream. They said it wasn't possible without freezers, but all you need to make it is milk, cream, sugar, two seal-able jars of different sizes, ice and rock salt or ice shards, and about twenty minutes.

 

So if you really think about it, there's... not a lot of food that couldn't exist in Eorzea. Off the top of my head... maybe astronaut ice-cream and anything that was specifically made to be cooked only sous-vide style might be 'out'. And maybe waffles, because I don't know how to make an Eorzean waffle iron off the top of my head beyond "magic!". But hamburgers, pizza, french fries, grilled cheese sandwiches, bacon McMuffins, Hot Pockets, doughnuts... they're all actually feasible with the game's represented cooking techniques and inventory items.

 

I think some people might have had more of a problem with the 'historical flavor' rather than the technological issues, but... Honestly, it's a matter of tastes. It's Eorzea, still. It seems to mix stuff from all RL - and less RL - eras so... Having icecream made with ice crystal shards? At the Costa Del Sol? Sounds pretty mild to me.

 

It's also threading a lot on something that can be cringe worthy for many people, also. The game lore always takes great care into transforming their RL inspirations into the setting and into proper Eorzean styled foods, stuff, etc. Even when it's a blatant ripoff where they have the laziest writing, like for seasonal events (Heavensturn, Starlight, etc... well at least they changed the names to give them meaning in the setting).

 

It's always a matter of how far you are willing to go into... what I would call an uncanny valley where contemporary RL stuff blends so much with the ffxiv setting that it starts to just break every kind of suspension of disbelief possible. When you start to see people taking their coffee to wake up at morning, take another one before going to work in their eorzean cubicles after a ride in some kind of bus towed by chocobos... Only to take their lunchbreak at the local fastfood when they have burgers and french fries and icecream and whatnot...

 

 

Mh, I might be wrong but it doesn't seem to me that a lot of foods in the lore are contemporary food. Most of them seem to be classic cuisine or old cuisine as far as I can tell? Or just made up stuff.

[Charity322]

You can put cheese on popcorn?

[Kilieit]

 

 

 

XIV is loosely based on 15th - 17th century cultures, plus any "anachronistic" technical advances made possible with magic and magitek (such as the early propagation of things which, in the real world, stayed on their original continents for much longer - for instance, I'm going to say coffee is likely to have been invented somewhere along the Thavnairian archipelago, which we know Eorzea has active and open trade routes with).

 

Most of these foods were either invented thousands of years before then, or were invented during the time period XIV is based upon.

 

Just because they've become modern conveniences doesn't mean they were invented in modern times.

[Arrelaine]

I think popcorn could be feasible. It's definitely not in an CUL recipes, but we do have millioncorn, and popcorn's not hard to make. A pan, some dried kernels and a fire and you got some popcorn. Add some melted butter, and you have butter flavored popcorn even. Or oil, however you take your popcorn (I personally use coconut cooking spray, and salt sticks super well to it). Eorzea also has caramel, sugar, etc, so you can make different varieties to boot.

 

Most great foods are made by accident, after all!

[Sounsyy]

Not that I've heard anyone complain, but it's not like people even have a leg to stand on in regards to pizza being in Eorzea. There's literally a Culinarian recipe for Tomato Pie.

 

Considered a delicacy in Gridania' date=' this pie is arranged with sliced tomatoes, giving it the appearance of a flower garden.[/quote']

Pie Dough

Wild Onion

Dzemael Tomato

Midland Basil

Rolanberry Cheese

Table Salt

 

Googling "tomato pie" nets like a million recipes for pizza and even a few recipes for literal "tomato pie" that look exactly like the in-game icon. Even some of the recipes are close. Pretty sure pizza is a thing. And popcorn can be too.

 

Southern Tomato Pie, Heirloom Tomato Pie, Tomato Pie y'all.

[Valence]

There is a huge difference between a tomato pie and a pizza to my eyes though.

 

 

 

 

XIV is loosely based on 15th - 17th century cultures, plus any "anachronistic" technical advances made possible with magic and magitek (such as the early propagation of things which, in the real world, stayed on their original continents for much longer - for instance, I'm going to say coffee is likely to have been invented somewhere along the Thavnairian archipelago, which we know Eorzea has active and open trade routes with).

 

Most of these foods were either invented thousands of years before then, or were invented during the time period XIV is based upon.

 

Just because they've become modern conveniences doesn't mean they were invented in modern times.

 

That's not what I'm saying though, I'm aware of coffee's age...

 

I'm pointing out that the way you are gonna depict a real life import in the game will totally decide if it's rubbish or brilliant. RL rip offs are very hard and finicky things to do right. Especially when they are still used as modern conveniences in a modern culture.

 

If you don't translate them back in their historical context, they remain used as a modern RL culture, but in Eorzea. And it doesn't ring true at all. I don't think I'm being wrong in assuming that coffee - as a coffee ignorant person overall - wasn't exactly consumed the same back in the time it appeared in the Middle East, and that the culture of coffee back then, was anything even remotely close.

 

Historical flavor, yes. Not a problem of timeline.

[Mae]

I think some people might have had more of a problem with the 'historical flavor' rather than the technological issues, but... Honestly, it's a matter of tastes. It's Eorzea, still. It seems to mix stuff from all RL - and less RL - eras so... Having icecream made with ice crystal shards? At the Costa Del Sol? Sounds pretty mild to me.

 

It's also threading a lot on something that can be cringe worthy for many people, also. The game lore always takes great care into transforming their RL inspirations into the setting and into proper Eorzean styled foods, stuff, etc. Even when it's a blatant ripoff where they have the laziest writing, like for seasonal events (Heavensturn, Starlight, etc... well at least they changed the names to give them meaning in the setting).

 

It's always a matter of how far you are willing to go into... what I would call an uncanny valley where contemporary RL stuff blends so much with the ffxiv setting that it starts to just break every kind of suspension of disbelief possible. When you start to see people taking their coffee to wake up at morning, take another one before going to work in their eorzean cubicles after a ride in some kind of bus towed by chocobos... Only to take their lunchbreak at the local fastfood when they have burgers and french fries and icecream and whatnot...

 

 

Mh, I might be wrong but it doesn't seem to me that a lot of foods in the lore are contemporary food. Most of them seem to be classic cuisine or old cuisine as far as I can tell? Or just made up stuff.

 

I was just pointing out that there's technically not much for food, even modern food, that can be called off-limits for either technique or ingredient requirements. I'm certainly not advocating someone starting up a McEorzea chain, but if Kara was sitting at a campfire with someone and they offered her chopped meat scraps that were pressed together into a disk shape before being grilled and then placed between a couple hunks of bread because there were no plates, I don't think it's even lore-bending enough to raise questions. 

 

You can put cheese on popcorn?

Yep. You can put all sorts of things on popcorn. I know people who like to sprinkle powdered ranch dressing mix onto theirs. And Ovaltine. Also someone who, instead of butter, uses bacon grease.

 

Me? I liked mine just air-popped plain. Back before I had a three-month period where Dollar Tree boxes of microwave popcorn were all I could afford to buy to cover my lunches. Now, I can't even stand the smell of popcorn.

[Sounsyy]

There is a huge difference between a tomato pie and a pizza to my eyes though.

 

Well, they're not exactly the same thing as a modern-day pizza from your local pizza joint obviously, but there is some historical precedence for the two terms being synonymous. Potentially one of many reasons "pizza pie" is a thing? IDK honestly, but this was an interesting find when I was researching tomato pies earlier:

 

Source: New-York tribune., Dec. 1903

 

Honestly if you slap tomatoes and cheese on a flat, baked piece of bread I'm gonna call it a pizza until someone corrects me.

 

NOW I'M HUNGRY. /orders a tomato pie from dominos. /gets really strange looks.

[Mae]

The definition of "tomato pie" changes from area to area. In my part of New England, it's typically something you can only find in Greek pizzerias and it's literally a Greek-style pizza with a layer of tomatoes under and on top of the cheese. You order a "pizza with tomatoes" from these same places, and it's only a layer of tomatoes on top of the cheese... something I learned the hard way when I first got out on my own.

 

Imagine my shock when I started traveling and got different things whenever I ordered one. Philadelphia, I got presented with what looked like to me to be a Sicilian-style pizza that had a sprinkling of Parmesan cheese instead of mozzarella on top. Chicago, my experience was that it meant getting a different, vastly chunkier sauce on their deep-dish pizzas. Somewhere in the Midwest, I think Illinois, I got introduced to the (in my opinion) monstrosity that is a pie crust that has a mayonnaise-cream cheese-cheddar cheese "filling" topped with tomatoes, and that is closer in appearance/construction to what we'd call a tart back home.

 

I also sort of learned that Greek-style pizza is not very popular outside of New England. To which I was both pleased and annoyed -- I typically don't like it, but when I get that rare craving for it, I crave it -hard-.

 

Anyways.

 

The game's icon looks like a tart to me, but the ingredients hint more towards a pizza-style to me. I can even justify the "pie crust" as a pizza thing -- some of the Greek pizzerias where I'm from, you have a choice of crusts: regular and "pie crust". The "pie crusts" are thinner, don't puff up as much, and are cooked in different pans with less oil so the bottom doesn't blister and fry. So until SE starts slapping some sort of mayonnaise into the recipe, I'm perfectly fine with people going with the idea that the tomato pie is more of a pizza thing.

[Michaux]

I take a similar approach to how a specific food is made -- if the technology to cook it exists/would be feasible to make in the game's setting, it's fair game. I had a similar argument (with the same person I did with the coffee, actually) over ice cream. They said it wasn't possible without freezers, but all you need to make it is milk, cream, sugar, two seal-able jars of different sizes, ice and rock salt or ice shards, and about twenty minutes.

 

The history of ice cream predates the freezer by... well, a whole lot. It's said that Marco Polo actually brought over a recipe for something resembling sherbet to Italy from China. That recipe is thought to have evolved into ice cream sometime in the 16th Century. So it sounds like that person doesn't know their history at all and should be ignored. If it's plausible for a food item (or any item, really) to exist in Eorzea, I have no problem with people RPing it.