discussion RP Racism?

[Arashin Kujqai]

So I've seen a couple ideas like this thrown around from time to time and I was curious how they go about it. Like do we have any NPC's that make racist remarks based on you being miqo'te or something? Also are there any particular remarks or stereotypes people use? I'm a lil uncomfortable asking this personally but I got curious one day what people could think of that is considered offensive towards an au ra, a roe, or miqo'te etc.

[L'ohba Tia]

There is racism and prejudice within Eorzea, yes. There's very obviously a stigma against Ala Mhigans that very few people bother to hide. And for Highlanders in general, it's a pretty common and offensive thing to accuse one of their parents of being Roegadyn. There's a ton of racial tension in Gridania toward Duskwights and Keepers of the Moon, who are considered by many citizens there to be savages. Miqo'te, despite how most people treat it in RP, insist very strongly that they are absolutely not related to cats in any way. So that's something that could be used as a racist insult toward them.

[Arashin Kujqai]

There is racism and prejudice within Eorzea, yes. There's very obviously a stigma against Ala Mhigans that very few people bother to hide. And for Highlanders in general, it's a pretty common and offensive thing to accuse one of their parents of being Roegadyn. There's a ton of racial tension in Gridania toward Duskwights and Keepers of the Moon, who are considered by many citizens there to be savages. Miqo'te, despite how most people treat it in RP, insist very strongly that they are absolutely not related to cats in any way. So that's something that could be used as a racist insult toward them.

For the Roegydan parent thing, I thought races weren't able to breed with each other or something?

 

I actually never thought about the duskwights and keepers of the moon until now but I can see that for sure. I've never understood some of the ala mhigan hate too, I remember one of the hildibrand quests-

 

They referred to the woman competing in the coliseum as a whore after she had been found out.

 

 

 

I never quite understood the source of it though, there's a ton of Ala Mhigan hate in general I do seem to notice every so often. Although it sounds less like racial hate and more about cultural hate if anything. Unless Ala Mhigan is counted as a particular race? Instead of it being Hyur or something?

[L'ohba Tia]

Races can all interbreed, but it doesn't happen often because of racial and cultural divisions. Interracial relationships are pretty heavily looked down upon, but that's something the RP community prefers to ignore.

 

Ala Mhigans get flak because they showed up on Ul'dah's doorstep 20 years ago demanding homes and jobs, and then a lot of them turned to crime when they found out that jobs don't appear out of thin air. They put a lot of strain on Ul'dah's economy and cause a lot of violence as bandits.

[Momo]

Not enough of it, SJW need to get on Hyurs (especially Midlanders) for all their cultural appropriation...I WON'T STAND FOR IT.

[L'ohba Tia]

Not enough of it, SJW need to get on Hyurs (especially Midlanders) for all their cultural appropriation...I WON'T STAND FOR IT.

 

What about all the Miqo'te claiming Midlander names?!

[TheLastCandle]

Not enough of it, SJW need to get on Hyurs (especially Midlanders) for all their cultural appropriation...I WON'T STAND FOR IT.

 

What about all the Miqo'te claiming Midlander names?!

 

Lies. S'ean Spicer is a perfectly valid Miqo'te name.

 

 

It's pronounced Soo-on.

 

 

 

He wasn't hiding in the shrub; he was hunting.

 

[Arashin Kujqai]

Races can all interbreed, but it doesn't happen often because of racial and cultural divisions. Interracial relationships are pretty heavily looked down upon, but that's something the RP community prefers to ignore.

 

Ala Mhigans get flak because they showed up on Ul'dah's doorstep 20 years ago demanding homes and jobs, and then a lot of them turned to crime when they found out that jobs don't appear out of thin air. They put a lot of strain on Ul'dah's economy and cause a lot of violence as bandits.

Strange, idk where I read it but I swear I saw something about how races can have at it but they won't actually produce a baby in the end >~>;

 

 

Not enough of it, SJW need to get on Hyurs (especially Midlanders) for all their cultural appropriation...I WON'T STAND FOR IT.

 

What about all the Miqo'te claiming Midlander names?!

 

I WAS AN ORPHAN ;~; mum and dud are ded and never named meh Q.Q

[Momo]

Not enough of it, SJW need to get on Hyurs (especially Midlanders) for all their cultural appropriation...I WON'T STAND FOR IT.

 

What about all the Miqo'te claiming Midlander names?!

 

That's just bad taste.

 

(But really though, there is room for racism in this game, and plenty of it. Elezen to Au Ra (or anyone really, Elezen don't like many people lol), Midlander to Highlander (tribalism/nationalism?), everyone to Lalafell, and the list goes on. I do see most of the appropriation of cultures, in part added into each place by the original race/culture, and much of it is due to a concentration around city centers which causes further blending. Much like in the real world, an added element to RP would be a character who doesn't believe themselves to be racist, but finds it in themselves later. Of course, overt racism is easier, quicker, and more prevalent.

 

I think it is a great RP tool, but one must be cautious of bringing it over to OOC as well, because sometimes it can be taken to a point where fellow RPers stop feeling welcome.)

[Virella]

Is it still racism if my highlander hates most midlander men? Or is that just sexism now?

 

But yeah. Racism is a thing. Eorzea doesn't like interracial couples. The couple in the Wanderer's Palace (Hard) quest, a highlander and a Miqo'te if my memory servers me well, is an example from it (even if people like to believe somehow that it's because of them being gay. That's very dumb, because guess what? Being gay is okay in Eorzea. But that's another topic, so I will drop it here). Hilda is an example of it. Those couples, and their offspring if possible, is not an expectable thing in most societies.

 

Things may be different in the bigger cities though we know the Ul'dah alchemist class trainer who is a hyur who was with a miqo'te and no one seemed to care. But in Ishgard for example, it's not. Unless Aymeric also magically fixed the racism there. Just like, you know, fixing the whole dragonsong war and people being okay with dragons in a few months. But whatever. In any case, Hilda's mother did get banished to a shitty life in the Brume together with her half-elezen/half-midlander daughter.

 

 

Honestly, I have a headcanon that children of two separate races are instantly insulted for being a 'son of a whore' ect. Because I'd imagine most Eorzeans are smart enough not to have babies if they happen to be of two separate races due to the social stigma these children may face. If not in their own community, then outside it.

 

 

I've roleplayed a xenophobic character, who would fling insults at your character for being anything but an Ishgardian Elezen. She knew racist comments were the easiest way to piss 'outsiders' off. The thing is though, I didn't roleplay her outright as just going off on people, but she'd made snide comments, and see if people took the bait (aka highlander drops something "lol highlanders and their big clumsy hands, not surprised" type of deal). She loved riling people up. If people were getting offended at me OOC due to that? Well fuck them sideways. Not like I'd to RP with people who blur IC and OOC. She was an amazing tool to check people's capability of keeping that divide.

 

Honestly having been there with keeping my elezen's relationship a secret from everyone and everything for months on end at first? It was super fun to roleplay. But in the end, when the whole stuff did come out? She ended up being fired, disowned, all her Ishgardian friends dropped her ect. Because I wanted consequences for being with a non-elezen. Sort of funny as well, she deserved it after being such a xenophobic shit.

 

Even despite roleplaying another character these days who doesn't care if you fuck another race, she'd still tell you your fucking stupid for willingly having a baby with another race due the banishing that child to an awful life. Like she's fine if you're willing to deal with the hatred you and your partner get for being an couple in the open. That's a burden they have to carry due to their own choices. She isn't okay with condemning your own child to it.

 

Anyhow, I hope my rambling helped.

[Sounsyy]

So I've seen a couple ideas like this thrown around from time to time and I was curious how they go about it. Like do we have any NPC's that make racist remarks based on you being miqo'te or something? Also are there any particular remarks or stereotypes people use? I'm a lil uncomfortable asking this personally but I got curious one day what people could think of that is considered offensive towards an au ra, a roe, or miqo'te etc.

 

There's a lot of racism thrown around in the game, yes. Mostly because the five Eorzean races have been going at it back and forth throughout history and have only relatively recently truly been forced to work and live together peacefully. Even along some clan lines there is division. Duskwights, for example, face extreme prejudice in Gridania and are referred to by the derogatory term "Greys" while they, in turn, refer to Wildwood as "Greens." Keepers of the Moon also face some discrimination, though not to the extent of the Duskwight. It's not uncommon to hear people refer to Highlanders having Roegadyn as parents, which the Highlanders find highly insulting. Miqo'te in general do not like being referred to as cats or having any cat ancestry. Lalafellin discrimination is more or less fanon. The actual lore says that Lalafell face very little persecution and instances of it are few and far between. Au Ra, being new to Eorzea, also face very little persecution, though Eorzean races don't really know what to make of them. The only real instance is in Ishgard where the Au Ra were initially slaughtered outright because the Ishgardians thought they were kin to dragons, though that's now been disproven.

 

 

_______________________

Strange, idk where I read it but I swear I saw something about how races can have at it but they won't actually produce a baby in the end

 

All of the races can mate and produce children with each other. However, interracial relationships are highly taboo in Eorzea and mixed children face more discrimination than even their parents. There's several instances of interracial and interclan children in the lore, and how they get treated. If you're curious you can find info on that in this post.

 

 

___________________________

Ala Mhigans get flak because they showed up on Ul'dah's doorstep 20 years ago demanding homes and jobs, and then a lot of them turned to crime when they found out that jobs don't appear out of thin air. They put a lot of strain on Ul'dah's economy and cause a lot of violence as bandits.

 

It's a bit more complicated than that. Ala Mhigan refugees initially showed up in Gridania and Coerthas, and both cities closed their gates to them altogether. When they came to Ul'dah, they were told they could stay, but they were denied citizenship, employment, and provisions. The only work that was initially offered them was sex work. Ul'dah's unemployment problem was then exacerbated tenfold with the coming of the Adventurer movement, which began putting many commonfolk out of business across the city-states.

 

Many Ala Mhigans began setting up settlements in the sultanate lands or moving into run down places like Silver Bazaar. Because no one wanted them there because Ul'dahns viewed them as worthless because they had no money, many merchants and consortiums attempted to bulldoze the areas they had set up camp to make room for mansions and plantations for Ul'dah's most wealthy. You can read more about Ul'dah's treatment of the Ala Mhigans here.

[Erah'sae]

 

Ala Mhigans get flak because they showed up on Ul'dah's doorstep 20 years ago demanding homes and jobs, and then a lot of them turned to crime when they found out that jobs don't appear out of thin air. They put a lot of strain on Ul'dah's economy and cause a lot of violence as bandits.

 

It's a bit more complicated than that. Ala Mhigan refugees initially showed up in Gridania and Coerthas, and both cities closed their gates to them altogether. When they came to Ul'dah, they were told they could stay, but they were denied citizenship, employment, and provisions. The only work that was initially offered them was sex work. Ul'dah's unemployment problem was then exacerbated tenfold with the coming of the Adventurer movement, which began putting many commonfolk out of business across the city-states.

 

Many Ala Mhigans began setting up settlements in the sultanate lands or moving into run down places like Silver Bazaar. Because no one wanted them there because Ul'dahns viewed them as worthless because they had no money, many merchants and consortiums attempted to bulldoze the areas they had set up camp to make room for mansions and plantations for Ul'dah's most wealthy. You can read more about Ul'dah's treatment of the Ala Mhigans here.

 

You can also throw in more problems / resentment towards Ala Mhigan refugees due to the whole trying to invade Gridania bit as well.

[Erah'sae]

Not enough of it, SJW need to get on Hyurs (especially Midlanders) for all their cultural appropriation...I WON'T STAND FOR IT.

 

What about all the Miqo'te claiming Midlander names?!

 

For Keepers Males you can probably treat this as them being exposed to other races.  Since they don't really have names of their own, just their mother's name plus a number suffix, they may take on more common names as an assertion of their identity in this new found, liberating, social context?

[Tortles]

It's definitely there, as Sounsyy referenced. Just be mindful that everyone has different headcanons, so you'll come across different ideas of what racism should be in the setting.

It can even be a little confusing in game, because there are times you will see comments about interracial relationships or attraction, and none of the NPCs will comment on it being taboo. It seems it can be a little inconsistent.

 

Also, a lot of times I think classism and xenophobia are treated as racism by players in this setting. Just try to be attentive to what you come across, but  most of all, have fun with it and do what's appropriate for your character and your story. Don't force your headcanons on anyone else, and don't let them force theirs on you.

[Kilieit]

Aghurlal's faced - or rather, found? - a fair bit of racism from other PCs, but it's never been explicit (well, except one time). It's been in the form of things like constantly needing to adjust armour/clothing/bedding/linkpearls to accommodate his horns, being unable to find medical care for issues related to his skin/horns/tail...

 

I feel like that's more or less in line with what the lore says he should be facing - exclusion via unfamiliarity, rather than expicit hatred.

[Arashin Kujqai]

I always thought au ra had some form of hatred at the start because of the whole ordeal with dragons and people transforming etc. Unfamiliarity seems rather simple but I wouldn't call that racism necessarily either, just ignorance lol.

[Kilieit]

From Ishgardians, yes, but he was meeting southern Eorzeans. Since he arrived a good amount of time after Yugiri's refugees, I think most people's first impression of him would probably have been "ah yes, one of those strange refugees".

 

I term it racism because it's a thing that happens to him, due to the establishment of Eorzea not accommodating his race, that causes him harm. Something doesn't have to be aggressive prejudice to be racism. "Microaggressions", if you will!

[Arashin Kujqai]

From Ishgardians, yes, but he was meeting southern Eorzeans. Since he arrived a good amount of time after Yugiri's refugees, I think most people's first impression of him would probably have been "ah yes, one of those strange refugees".

 

I term it racism because it's a thing that happens to him, due to the establishment of Eorzea not accommodating his race, that causes him harm. Something doesn't have to be aggressive prejudice to be racism. "Microaggressions", if you will!

I meant in general but yeah that's fair enough lol. Kinda like when a restaurant doesn't have support for vegetarians or veagens or something. Not specific racism but rather not accounted for....

 

Still, no one's listed any specific slang or terms so far . Just maybe thoughts or stereotypes, though I guess when gobbies call miqo'tes "purrgrowlers" it's less racist and more adorable LOL(despite miqo'te hate being referred to as cats?).

[Sounsyy]

It's a bit more complicated than that. Ala Mhigan refugees initially showed up in Gridania and Coerthas, and both cities closed their gates to them altogether. When they came to Ul'dah, they were told they could stay, but they were denied citizenship, employment, and provisions. The only work that was initially offered them was sex work. Ul'dah's unemployment problem was then exacerbated tenfold with the coming of the Adventurer movement, which began putting many commonfolk out of business across the city-states.

 

Many Ala Mhigans began setting up settlements in the sultanate lands or moving into run down places like Silver Bazaar. Because no one wanted them there because Ul'dahns viewed them as worthless because they had no money, many merchants and consortiums attempted to bulldoze the areas they had set up camp to make room for mansions and plantations for Ul'dah's most wealthy. You can read more about Ul'dah's treatment of the Ala Mhigans here.

 

You can also throw in more problems / resentment towards Ala Mhigan refugees due to the whole trying to invade Gridania bit as well.

 

As Stormblood draws nearer on the horizon, this has definitely been a commonplace sentiment that I've been trying to abolish. It's actually fanon. Justifiable fanon, if your character is the type to hold WWII against modern day Germans (edit: poor example), but ultimately... this sentiment is neither represented nor referenced by any NPC anywhere in 1.0, 2.0, or 3.0. In fact, the only time any NPC blames the Autumn War for Ala Mhigan prejudice, it's an Immortal Flame soldier claiming that the reason Ala Mhigans hate Ul'dahns is because of the Autumn War.

 

The Immortal Flames oversee the protection of Little Ala Mhigo' date=' but from the looks the locals give us, you'd think our two nations were still at war.[/quote']

 

Which... if you've read anything about how Ul'dah has treated the Ala Mhigans refugees, you'd be intimately aware of several more relevant and immediate reasons why Ala Mhigans, particularly those in Little Ala Mhigo, despise Ul'dahns.

 

So why do so many cling to a war one-hundred years done? I think it's because the Autumn War is well known bit of Ala Mhigan history - perhaps the most well known aspect of it, in fact. Afterall, we've been told before that many of the races disliked one another due to simmering conflicts in years past, scars that just never healed. It kind of made sense, until that is, you take a closer look at the refugee crisis and its affects on the city-states now and during the last 15-20 years.

 

Could the Autumn War be a contributing factor? Perhaps. But Gridania and Ishgard have also gone to war against each other. And Limsa Lominsa and Ul'dah have been biting and clawing at each other for nearly 400 years, even into the year 1572 where the two nations actively attempted to sabotage each other's grand companies.

 

Of the five nations involved in the Autumn War, the only nations who came away at a loss were Gridania and Ala Mhigo. By involving themselves in Gridania's affairs, Ishgard was able to keep its own border protected - but more importantly, it effectively ended 400 years of Gridanian isolationism and independence. Ishgard and Gridania's long-standing stalemate at the border ended and the two nations became staunch allies afterward, but Gridania was forced to give up a portion of its vast natural resources to the other nations in trade. Ul'dah also stood to benefit from this on as many or more fronts: Gridanian trade meant their caravans would be protected in the Black Shroud, a place where most Ul'dahns feared to go. Ul'dah was also able to force Ala Mhigo to reduce their tariffs for trade and safe passage across their lands to the east - effectively neutering Ala Mhigo's economy, which would pave the way for the rise of the Fist of Rhalgr whittling away the king's political power, eventually giving rise to Theodoric's reign of ruin, and finally Ala Mhigo's fall.

 

Hope that helps clear some things up! ^^;

[Eses Fafa]

I'm sure we don't need the talk on how IRL racism is bad, but admittedly I dabble in the guilty pleasure of ICly making fun of Seekers of the Sun for their incestuous backgrounds. Though, there would be plenty of causes for people to be racist towards fellow Eorzeans that aren't Beast Tribes; Hydaelyn knows we've killed enough of those.

• Vast difference in build causing intimidation or jealousy. (That Roe's size scares me or that 'Qote's adorably timid frame makes me jelly..what? No, totally not placing favourites.)
  
• A member of another race committing a horrific crime that forces your character into a state of prejudice.
  
• Preconceived notions of the popular negative personality traits of other races told to you by people. (To be fair, I wouldn't go near most Miqo'te if the very LORE says they're commonly xenophobic or reclusive)
  
• That person is different and Papa-Uncle-Cousin Cletus told you difference is bad.
  

 

Plenty of other reasons, but those are some of the most common. Doesn't hurt to spice this cutesy world up with some EVIL I suppose.

[Erah'sae]

It's a bit more complicated than that. Ala Mhigan refugees initially showed up in Gridania and Coerthas, and both cities closed their gates to them altogether. When they came to Ul'dah, they were told they could stay, but they were denied citizenship, employment, and provisions. The only work that was initially offered them was sex work. Ul'dah's unemployment problem was then exacerbated tenfold with the coming of the Adventurer movement, which began putting many commonfolk out of business across the city-states.

 

Many Ala Mhigans began setting up settlements in the sultanate lands or moving into run down places like Silver Bazaar. Because no one wanted them there because Ul'dahns viewed them as worthless because they had no money, many merchants and consortiums attempted to bulldoze the areas they had set up camp to make room for mansions and plantations for Ul'dah's most wealthy. You can read more about Ul'dah's treatment of the Ala Mhigans here.

 

You can also throw in more problems / resentment towards Ala Mhigan refugees due to the whole trying to invade Gridania bit as well.

 

As Stormblood draws nearer on the horizon, this has definitely been a commonplace sentiment that I've been trying to abolish. It's actually fanon. Justifiable fanon, if your character is the type to hold WWII against modern day Germans, but ultimately... this sentiment is neither represented nor referenced by any NPC anywhere in 1.0, 2.0, or 3.0. In fact, the only time any NPC blames the Autumn War for Ala Mhigan prejudice, it's an Immortal Flame soldier claiming that the reason Ala Mhigans hate Ul'dahns is because of the Autumn War.

 

 

Ahh you're right on that.  I got the time frames mixed up with the Autumn War which was, now that I've looked it up a bit over 100 years previous to the calamity.  I had in my head that it was a lot more recent.

 

I can also see the Calamity and other Garleanian events leading up to it as a big buffer over any resentment over the Autum War.  Something like the Calamity does cause a huge unifying influence.

[Valence]

Just throwing that here, but there is still anger around in Europe directed at Germany for WW2. Mostly from old people that actually were alive when it happened, or direct children of the post war, but I remember consistently having grown in an environment where germans were often referred to in very derogatory manners, and this, despite the efforts of building the EEC and then the EU. It was literally everywhere.

 

We are well past 20 years after my early childhood though, true, and this has mostly vanished, or in the way of doing so. It's not as clear cut as it sounds. Of course, it can be argued that the Autumn War had nothing to do with something on the scale of WWII. So I would naturally tend to go with what the game lore shows, which is little enmity.

[Yian Kutku]

Just throwing that here, but there is still anger around in Europe directed at Germany for WW2. Mostly from old people that actually were alive when it happened, or direct children of the post war, but I remember consistently having grown in an environment where germans were often referred to in very derogatory manners, and this, despite the efforts of building the EEC and then the EU. It was literally everywhere.

 

Also compare the anger and mutual racism between China and Japan (and Korea, although I'm less familiar with that). Most of the justification for the anger is from WW2, but dig a bit deeper and it turns out the hatred is almost entirely because "it's always been that way". WW2 was just the most obvious go-to in a long, long line of reasons to hate the Other.

 

It pops up in unexpected places. Much of the time, it's from the older generation as mentioned, but sometimes it gets brought up by politicians as political football, or in sudden ranting screeds from younger people.

 

Even the milder forms of racism can still be troublesome. I hear a lot of "you can't trust them" and "they don't know our ways", or even "they're not so bad, as long as you keep an eye on them", which strikes me as more than a little backhanded.

[Vexander]

As far as the Autumn War goes, I'm not sure, but there MAY be some people who were around for that. The older Padjals. I think brother E-Sumi Yan is the oldest living one, no? The head of the Conjurer's Guild? I'm not sure how old he is exactly, but he might've been alive for the Autumn War. Though I suppose the Elementals certainly would remember and I don't know if they have a lifespan at all.

[Sounsyy]

Of course, it can be argued that the Autumn War had nothing to do with something on the scale of WWII. So I would naturally tend to go with what the game lore shows, which is little enmity.

 

Perhaps the Berlin wall not falling until much more recently played some small part? But in any case, an admittedly poor comparison. It just held a similar time difference. Though, there could still be people in Eorzea who hold that war against the Ala Mhigans. That's a personal character choice, I just wanted to make it clear that there's nothing in lore that supports such prejudices.

 

 

___________________________

As far as the Autumn War goes, I'm not sure, but there MAY be some people who were around for that. The older Padjals. I think brother E-Sumi Yan is the oldest living one, no? The head of the Conjurer's Guild? I'm not sure how old he is exactly, but he might've been alive for the Autumn War. Though I suppose the Elementals certainly would remember and I don't know if they have a lifespan at all.

 

E-Sumi-Yan is the oldest living padjal, but claims to have stopped counting his age after his 100th birthday, though scholars guesstimate he is close to 230 years old. He'd have definitely been alive during the Autumn War in any case.

 

Many elementals would've been alive during the time period and they might remember the war, but they wouldn't care. The elementals do not see flags or nationalities. The outcome of a conflict does not interest them. They care only that their wood is safe. If the Ala Mhigans had caused any irreparable harm to the Wood during the Autumn War, the elementals would've expelled every man from their borders, Gridanian and Ala Mhigan, as they did following the 6th Umbral Calamity. Though there's no Autumn War lore that suggests the Ala Mhigans sought to damage the wood during their campaign. In fact, the integrity of the wood, the denseness of the underbrush, and the closeness of the trees at Five Hangs (just north of the Mirror) proved to be the Ala Mhigan army's downfall in the Second Battle of Tinolqa, as the tight formations and longpikes could not be wielded efficiently so near Gridania.