Qestir RPpers: how do you handle communication?

[Goodfellow]

Like the subject says, I'm curious to hear from people who have actually RPed as or with a Qestir Xaela about their own creative takes and strategies for working with the "words are lies" business.

 

Thanks for your words (lies or otherwise)!

[Gegenji]

I have a Qestir I haven't really done much with, so I can't speak on how I'd do it myself...

 

But I've seen a few takes on it. One is just writing your emotes in such a way so that it basically tells the other person what you're trying to make your Qestir say. Like, /em glanced irritably at their empty glass before looking up at the bartender. It was fairly obvious they wanted the lack of drink rectified.

 

I've also seen people use little chalkboards and notepads to just write out what they want instead... but that seems to kinda defeat the purpose for me, so I personally wouldn't recommend it.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

I've mostly seen it in emoted actions, which is a lot how the NPCs do it too.

 

I would assume that written words would likely be treated similarly to spoken words and be considered lies, although I've seen the chalkboard/notepad method as well.

[Rookie Judge]

I've mostly seen it in emoted actions, which is a lot how the NPCs do it too.

 

I would assume that written words would likely be treated similarly to spoken words and be considered lies, although I've seen the chalkboard/notepad method as well.

 

The Qestir do seem to have their own written language as shown in one of the Reunion sidequest lines. Traders are given a "piece of vellum with Qestiri markings" to show that they're allowed to trade in Reunion. Whether this shows that the Qestir allow for written words, or if it's simply an exception to accommodate foreign traders is up for interpretation.

[Gegenji]

I've mostly seen it in emoted actions, which is a lot how the NPCs do it too.

 

I would assume that written words would likely be treated similarly to spoken words and be considered lies, although I've seen the chalkboard/notepad method as well.

 

The Qestir do seem to have their own written language as shown in one of the Reunion sidequest lines. Traders are given a "piece of vellum with Qestiri markings" to show that they're allowed to trade in Reunion. Whether this shows that the Qestir allow for written words, or if it's simply an exception to accommodate foreign traders is up for interpretation.

 

Oddly enough, I read into that as being more as having, like... a wax seal of approval. There isn't actually Qestir language in long-form there, just them putting their stamp of approval on someone being there. More like a signature more than anything else, if that makes sense.

[Goodfellow]

Thanks for the replies, all.  I agree that the written word feels like a biiit of a stretch (no disrespect to Qestir players who use it).  Regardless, it seems like thorough emoting is the norm.

[Perth]

Yeah, I'd say so! I felt like written word was "cheating" since they don't communicate for a reason (or rather,

whatever reason they have culturally), and honestly... Having a Qestir and challenging myself to be fully expressive in emotes was one of the most efficient way for me to improve at my own emotes/writing, ever.

[Pascaleret]

I've mostly seen it in emoted actions, which is a lot how the NPCs do it too.

 

I would assume that written words would likely be treated similarly to spoken words and be considered lies, although I've seen the chalkboard/notepad method as well.

 

The Qestir do seem to have their own written language as shown in one of the Reunion sidequest lines. Traders are given a "piece of vellum with Qestiri markings" to show that they're allowed to trade in Reunion. Whether this shows that the Qestir allow for written words, or if it's simply an exception to accommodate foreign traders is up for interpretation.

 

Oddly enough, I read into that as being more as having, like... a wax seal of approval. There isn't actually Qestir language in long-form there, just them putting their stamp of approval on someone being there. More like a signature more than anything else, if that makes sense.

 

Yeah, I agree with this. The "Qestiri markings" probably refers to their tribe symbol, like the stuff we see on the banners in the steppe, or the new furniture pieces, rather than a written language exclusive to Qestir.

[Arashin Kujqai]

I figured it was through thorough emoting without being lengthy. So describing a smile that looks like it's accepting/welcoming, or a cold stare that describes his uncertainty/malicious intent. A mix of this and emotes seems like it'd be the best route to go, the less the better more than likely too if you're wanting to truly capture their culture through immersion.

 

Like beckoning someone and just walking toward that direction without telling them to follow or describing it. If they follow, they follow, if not, then it speaks for itself . Seems like the entire tribe concept to me lol.

[Rookie Judge]

I've mostly seen it in emoted actions, which is a lot how the NPCs do it too.

 

I would assume that written words would likely be treated similarly to spoken words and be considered lies, although I've seen the chalkboard/notepad method as well.

 

The Qestir do seem to have their own written language as shown in one of the Reunion sidequest lines. Traders are given a "piece of vellum with Qestiri markings" to show that they're allowed to trade in Reunion. Whether this shows that the Qestir allow for written words, or if it's simply an exception to accommodate foreign traders is up for interpretation.

 

Oddly enough, I read into that as being more as having, like... a wax seal of approval. There isn't actually Qestir language in long-form there, just them putting their stamp of approval on someone being there. More like a signature more than anything else, if that makes sense.

 

Yeah, I agree with this. The "Qestiri markings" probably refers to their tribe symbol, like the stuff we see on the banners in the steppe, or the new furniture pieces, rather than a written language exclusive to Qestir.

 

I'd like to point out that even pictographs are considered a written language. You don't necessarily need to have actual written words as in something like English. I admit I phrased my original post a bit poorly though. My original perception  was something along the lines of hieroglyphs or some such.

[Goodfellow]

I can't find sources at the moment (but I promise they exist), and I also haven't gotten to the steppes in-game yet, but in the north of Spain there are pastoral communities that use an older, non-Arabic numeral-based system of symbols, mostly carved into stones or the sides of windmills and other buildings.  These symbols can represent numbers or basic geographic references relevant to their work and do not correspond to the language itself.  It may be totally off-base, but reading y'all's references to Qestir symbols or markings, that's what I was reminded of.

[Erah'sae]

One thing that makes them a bit more immersive is if you don't emote your thoughts like I've seen a few people do.  

 

Show don't tell is a grand mantra to go by when emoting for the Qestir.   Sometimes you might need to be a lot more nuanced in your emotes to give subtle queues to convey meaning.

 

Some of the most interesting interactions with a Qestir may be when the others get the wrong idea of what you're trying to convey.  Chalk this up to the cultural divide perhaps?

 

 

This does bring some interesting questions though.  There is a fate involving a Qestir merchant and another Au Ra who short changed them at the market.  To sort out the price for something one would assume they have a method of conveying this?  Was there anything said about the method?  (This may be visually represented in the market area but I can't log in right now to check.)

[Ellmida]

I have to wonder if Questir do actually have a form of sign language for themselves because it seems much to expect anyone to communicate complex economic and mercantile information with just pointed looks.

 

 My guess is the only reason you may not see them using hand signals with anyone is practical reasons of animating it as well as common sense that if someone you just met is not familiar with your culture than it's asking a little much for them to understand an entirely different language communicated with gestures and hand signs. Possible it might even be a language that's sacred and only used in the tribe and with close allies.

[Kilieit]

The important thing for the Qestir isn't a lack of verbal words. It's a lack of language, absolutely. The "words, deeds, beliefs" formula - the Qestir seek to remove the "words" part from it entirely, because they are most likely to be lies. Words made with hands are still words, and still lies.

 

Which makes RPing one even more of a challenge, but I think that's what you take on when you create one. You have to convey your character's beliefs solely through their actions.

 

A funny potential scenario I did think of was like - two people bickering in the presence of their Qestiri friend, and eventually the Qestir just... SCREAMS. Primally. For like ten uninterrupted seconds. Because technically, screaming is an action, not a word, and doing it certainly achieved the action of making the others shut up...

[Silents]

A funny potential scenario I did think of was like - two people bickering in the presence of their Qestiri friend, and eventually the Qestir just... SCREAMS. Primally. For like ten uninterrupted seconds. Because technically, screaming is an action, not a word, and doing it certainly achieved the action of making the others shut up...

 

I have to admit that this is an aspect I kind of want to toyaround with.

 

Perhaps it’s simply due to the company I keep but I see anumber of people who seem to strangely assume that a Qestir tribe member will be completely mute and restricted to body language and facial expressions only due to their lore stating very specifically that they refrain from using words.

 

We’re given the in-game example of them refraining from spoken language and given the tribe description we assume that they also avoid written language and signing.

 

It honestly fascinates me that people think a character must be completely silent when the only thing they’re technically restricted from is the use of words. Especially when it's clearly a taught concept, there's the potential for sound slip ups right there.

[Ellmida]

The important thing for the Qestir isn't a lack of verbal words. It's a lack of language, absolutely. The "words, deeds, beliefs" formula - the Qestir seek to remove the "words" part from it entirely, because they are most likely to be lies. Words made with hands are still words, and still lies.

 

Which makes RPing one even more of a challenge, but I think that's what you take on when you create one. You have to convey your character's beliefs solely through their actions.

 

A funny potential scenario I did think of was like - two people bickering in the presence of their Qestiri friend, and eventually the Qestir just... SCREAMS. Primally. For like ten uninterrupted seconds. Because technically, screaming is an action, not a word, and doing it certainly achieved the action of making the others shut up...

  Citation needed:  I believe in the initial MSQ they specify that the Qestir believe all words 

-spoken- are lies and therefore language and writing are exempt from these restrictions.  That being said I would doubt any language they do have would be complex and more or less convey needs and intent in as few "words" as possible.

[Kilieit]

I don't recall any such specification... can you cite that for me? Because if true, it would render the Qestir views far less internally consistent.

[Ellmida]

As I said, citation needed, it's how I remember it...can probably try to find a video of it?

[Kilieit]

Please do.

 

I'm making statements based on what makes sense - we know that the principle problem with words for the Qestir is that it's easy to lie when you don't have to back up what you're saying with concrete actions, so they cut the speaking part out completely and force themselves to only commit to concepts they're willing to act on. Logically, this would apply to all languages, regardless of medium - because the ideological problem for the Qestir isn't using verbal speech, it's communicating abstract ideas and promises.

 

You're saying that this is incorrect, and you're saying it's incorrect because the lore explicitly (and nonsensically, but lore is lore) contradicts it... so it'd be nice if you could produce said lore. I don't remember the bit you're talking about, so I don't know what I'd be looking for.

[Virella]

One thing what left me wondering with Qestir though... Do they interact that much with other tribes, that they end up understanding the Xaela tongue? Because I can't imagine them teaching their children how to speak? Like, can they even speak properly, or would their speech be very broken due to this?

 

So many questions :l

[Silents]

I’ll preface this two cents by stating that I personally cannot provide concrete evidence for or against Qestir specifically allowing written language. Here’s my personal issue with the idea though and it could simply be a case of applying too much logic to the lore in this instance.

 

In Reunion there’s a quest chain where you assist a merchant with negotiating permission to sell within the settlement. He naturally attempts to speak with the Qestir, which we know the tribe is against, and eventually turns to the other tribe representatives in the area for assistance. These individuals, from what I can recall off the top of my head, essentially tell him to communicate via the Qestir customs, so by showing actions instead of speaking words.

 

 

Now logically if the Qestir were open to written words surely they would be open to a form of written negotiation. One would assume that at least one person within that area would suggest writing a request instead of talking at them if that were the case.

[Kilieit]

One thing what left me wondering with Qestir though... Do they interact that much with other tribes, that they end up understanding the Xaela tongue? Because I can't imagine them teaching their children how to speak? Like, can they even speak properly, or would their speech be very broken due to this?

 

So many questions :l

 

I was idly thinking about that earlier too... I was wondering if maybe part of why they're amenable to trade is so they can expose their kids to language and essentially... allow them to learn to understand others, without themselves speaking? Or would "teaching language so it can be comprehended, if not utilised" be considered an action? Perhaps younger Qestir permitted to speak so they can try it out / get used to the grammar and vocabulary by using it themself, but are expected to essentially "grow out of it" by the time they reach adolescence? Maybe they'd even position said children to be burned a few times by liars, so they understand the Qestir tradition for their own self and take it up willingly, instead of just copying the elders?

 

Or maybe they really can't understand language very well and that's part of why they give everyone such unimpressed looks if they try to come in talking?

 

SO MANY QUESTIONS. *-*

[Ellmida]

I think that's overthinking it. I mean sure you can hand some foreigner a written document of your demands but how is he going to be able to read it? I think it is a lot to ask to expect the Qestir to read or write in the Doman or Kugane languages when they rarely seem to deal with anything outside their territory.

[Kilieit]

But the quests would have been more like, "oh, talk to this local person, they can help you draft a written proposal in the local language to resolve the misunderstanding". Instead, they just told him to do it the Qestir way.

[Silents]

As I mentioned, i'm fully aware that i'm likely overthinking and potentially over complicating things. And since i'm already going down that route...

 

I would throw out a counter argument to the idea of the Qestir being unable to read outside languages. Given that one of the tribes attempts to trick the merchant out of his wares, showing that certain tribes aren't against underhanded tactics to get ahead with the Naadam so close, why not offer to write a letter for an outsider? Surely if the Qestir were open to written language then they would logically know the written system within the Steppes and that would have been a far more subtle way for that tribe to go about their trickery. 

 

The merchant would get a letter that the Qestir could understand. The tribe could have potentially gotten the wares they desired out of the exchange.

 

Of course it's entirely possible that, like I said, i'm applying too much logic to an aspect of the game that wasn't meant to be nitpicked.