discussion Kotaku News Article regarding the First (5.0 Spoilers)

[Lucius Ignatius]

So, I had a friend toss this to me--apparently it's an official response from Yoshi P on the First to Source etc. debacle that RPers are left in. I suppose it is still left up to the individual to decide, but for those who care I thought it would help contribute to the discussion. I don't know exactly where the screen shot was taken from, but if someone's seen it, feel free to post a link.

[Gerel Kha]

It's from a Kotaku article that went up today. Last question.

 

https://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-xiv-director-talks-class-changes-music-1838148771

 

[Kieron Lohengrin]

The full context for the lore ruling is as follows:

 

 

Some people will still protest this until their faces turn blue, but the man himself has spoken.

[Valence]

This is not a lore ruling, this is basically him telling people "spin your own stories, give them meaning the way you like"

 

The last line is pretty telling in itself. 

Edited September 18, 2019 by Valence

[Kieron Lohengrin]

The game's head honcho was directly asked a lore-related question, and he gave a straightforward, no-nonsense answer. It's a lore ruling for the setting, whether you like it or not. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Now, you might not like Kotaku for other, entirely justifiable reasons, but this one stands as far as public RP goes. Anyone can canonically travel as freely as they like, using their ideas derived from ingame elements, and the people still in denial trying to shout them down can be happily ignored.

 

Individual freedom has always been a big point that Yoshi-P keeps bringing up in his interviews, so this isn't really that big of a surprise.

[Maril]

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[Dravus]

It doesn't really change much, since many role-players are going to want a plausible reason to do something as drastic as travel to a completely different world assuming they follow the lore to any significant degree. Whereas those who are desperate to involve their characters in anything and everything will claim that they can do whatever they so wish.

[Valence]

This has very little to do with lore. This is touching essentially what is roleplay boundaries. It is essentially repeating in great words what everybody on these forums have been telling for years: "do what you want". 

 

The lore remains the lore, and we will see it get new details and info as the game progresses, that is the nature of the beast. What you choose to do with lore and how you want to interpret it at any given time is a whole other story.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Yeah, it's basically a confirmation of the same stance SE's always had in regards to roleplay. "Just go do it and stop worrying about the reasons."

 

 

My view's that they've (SE) always had this stance of "just say you did and go from there if you want." They didn't provide an in-world justification for the not-main-characters, but perhaps 5.X will lead to that because we can't just leave our companions torn across worlds forever. It's the same sort of answer that Yoshi-P or SE provides any time a "why are these RPers in the 'West' getting so caught up on this" event occurs. 

 

Ultimately, people should just find like-minded RPers and RP out those concepts. If that involves getting to the First using some means we've seen in game, an extrapolation of that (Caster Role quests), or whatever other reason, then go for it. Maybe the Exarch screwed up and dragged more people over than expected. There in't some "I need to win at the lore" aspect here. Just be respectful to those who do and those who don't. Or do it my way, avoid talking loudly in public RP spaces about it.

[Kieron Lohengrin]

If we're enumerating, so far, you have - just off the top of my head:

- Taynor's mage consortium quests
- Ironworks employees fiddling with the beacon
- Greg's portal at the end of SB

- The CT quest series / WoD 24-man necessitating lots of help from multiple adventurers
- A bevy of crossovers and quests from 2.X-4.X, from events all the way to PVP

All with ingame written lore and flavor text. All setting precedent for interworld travel, even if some roleplayers refuse to acknowledge them. Yoshi-P outright adjudicating "yes, non-WoL normies can" to a question so directly steeped in the lore and current storyline corroborates the above. Someone not liking something about the setting for the game they're playing in doesn't change that it's been established in canon as either having happened or continuously, repeatedly ongoing.

People openly discussing their activities on the First - mind, the interviewer made very sure to explicitly ask for non-WoL adventurers / normal individuals - is well within established RP boundaries with precedents. It's just the latest in a series of clarifications that the devs have laid down over the years.

"Only the WoL can fight primals."

"Actually, Echo user and SMN teams can. And often do these days without the WoL."

"Only the WoL can solo through primal trials / World of Darkness / Orbonne / Isle of Val."

"Actually, bigger teams of other adventurers are needed to accomplish those."

"Only the WoL can travel between worlds."

"Actually, normal individuals can, too."

Again, people not liking something established about the setting doesn't change the fact that it's been decisively established. There's no winning or losing at lore, there's just the sum total to date of what the devs have stated externally and/or put in their game. Some people will just continue ignoring / nitpicking / rejecting specifics that don't suit their worldview.

Whenever the devs make a clear-cut ruling like this to end a debate, I'm always reminded of when people went nuts because Pluto was decided by authorities to no longer be a planet. You might not like it, but it's been decided. And/or had precedents set for it.

[Valence]

Just chiming in, I have literally no idea where this idea that "only the wol can slay primals or fight them" comes from. We've known as far as back from ARR that the Grand Companies used to fight them by throwing at them enough bodies that not all of them can be tempered (cf, among others, the Company of Heroes). At best the long discussed idea in there was more about "how often beast tribes summon primals", and over the years we got slowly more details that seem to vaguely point out to "often enough".

 

Again, there is a big difference between Lore and Personal RP boundaries. If some people don't want to play or interact with specific elements of the lore that don't fit with their RP or stories, because it's either way too powerful, or snowflaky, or doesn't make sense for their character to even have access to something, or that they don't want to step into WoL stuff territory, or just because they don't like it, doesn't mean they're refusing those lore bits specifically. There is a huge difference between refusing to interact with some lore aspects and telling that said lore aspects are wrong and don't exist.

 

Edit: heh, sharing those because they're actually hilarious:

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Valence

[Dat Oni]

On 9/19/2019 at 5:07 AM, Valence said:

Just chiming in, I have literally no idea where this idea that "only the wol can slay primals or fight them" comes from. We've known as far as back from ARR that the Grand Companies used to fight them by throwing at them enough bodies that not all of them can be tempered (cf, among others, the Company of Heroes). At best the long discussed idea in there was more about "how often beast tribes summon primals", and over the years we got slowly more details that seem to vaguely point out to "often enough".

 

Slight rant here and maybe a little necro, but the posting rate on this site has kind of slowed immensely in recent years so I will try and see if I can get away with it:

One of the Tales for Stormblood involving Fordola after her capture and trial explicitly shows that other people with the echo, including full-on SUMMONERS with actual job stones exist and are used to fight Primals when the WoL is busy, especially during the events of Shadowbringers where we were off-world. In fact, this is what Fordola was doing before she showed up in Patch 5.5, as the tale has her and Arenvald alongside I think two summoners sent to Thanalan to quell a summoning of Ifrit.

This idea that only the WoL can fight Primals has been beaten to death over the course of years by the actual writers of FFXIV, from revelations that we are not the only ones with the echo, to confirmation that primal summonings continue even when we've stopped them personally, to the fact that the entire Allagan empire's lore is centered around them quelling and capturing Primals presumably without even the echo, to now when its become apparent that the WoL cannot be everywhere at fucking once and yet the world continues without them anyways. It is complete and utter nonsense to suggest at this point that primal summonings are both so rare and and specific enough to need the WoL's assistance every goddamn time.

But above all else, even if this wasn't the case, Yoshi-P says leave the roleplayers alone, and that needs to be the takeaway. Let them do what they want, it hurts nobody.