The Echo

[g0ne]

Not sure if there's been another thread like this before, but here we go.

 

Can a character ICly have the Echo? Like is it possible to have the echo without treading into the 'lookie, I'm a special snowflake, yay' and Mary Sue? If yes, does your character have it? If no, why not? 

 

I hope I don't start a fire burning here (and pitchforks anf torchfires, hehehe...) 

[Warren Castille]

Plenty possible. The Echo takes a lot of forms, so the super special "We can jump into memories" and "we understand all languages" bits aren't necessarily part of the kit for everyone. It might be possible to always know which way is north without markings, or always know the shortest way to the sea, or really anything else. There's no hard limiting factor that we've seen, though gaining Superman-like powers is probably going to be frowned upon.

 

Edit: No, Warren doesn't have the Echo. I usually decline on lore-fuzzy powers like that on reflex. The biggest idea I could prescribe to Warren would be that he's a sort of in-reserve hero type? He didn't get The Call to be a chosen one or anything, but in another world...

 

For some of the dorks here, think the difference between Slayer and Potential Slayer.

[Berrod Armstrong]

If you wish for your character to possess the echo, by all means, do it. Just remember to carefully research what the Echo is, and what having it means for that character -- and be aware that not everyone who has the Echo is necessarily knowledgeable on exactly what it is (if you remember in the MSQ, Lightbob Warriorpants didn't even know what the hell was going on until Minfilia told him/her). 

 

There will be people who harp on you for doing this -- which is why it's important to exercise discretion and care while playing it off, ESPECIALLY when it comes to making sure that your character is more than just about having the Echo (some folks will have issues regarding possible meta-gaming as well, but this can be avoided by keeping communication open). Unless there is constructive criticism with regard to your portrayal, don't bother with naysayers.

 

My character doesn't possess the Echo, but if I wanted to roll an alt who did, I bloody well would.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Having the Echo is one of those weird grey areas of RP decisions.

 

On one hand, the Echo awakened en masse during what we'll call the 1.0 events. It's likely that Louisoix and Minfillia were able to find them all before the Calamity. (And who's to say that Hydaelyn's blessing was only during that time?)

In the 2.0 storyline, it's very clear that the adventurer has the Echo, whether that adventurer is a "legacy" player, Warrior of Light from 1.0 or just some new adventurer that became a 2.0 Warrior of Light (because the 1.0 and 2.0 definitions are a little different)

 

On the other hand, the Echo grants its bearer unique gifts that some people could be uncomfortable RPing with. Some of these shown previously are telepathic communication, resistance against primal tempering, ungodly power, the ability to understand foreign languages such as the beast tribes', and a certain level of "immortality" (think of how you don't die in a dungeon, but those adventurers had a few....mishaps in the Tam-Tara Deepcroft was back). The Echo manifests differently for each individual. Naturally, unless you find some other person with the Echo, your average person will probably have no idea, and may just think you're a larger-than-life adventurer. 

 

--

 

In Franz's case, the Echo would be almost ironic. While probably not a threat to Eorzea on his own, he is former Garlean military, which has any number of problems. (Even if we take into account that he was basically cannon fodder in the last battle he fought in, Silvertear Lake, still caused a /ton/ of damage.)

 

 

--

 

As the others have stated, it's not impossible, but I would tread lightly with who you share it with, both IC and OOC, if you decide to have it. (I know I could think of a few good plots that could make use of someone with the Echo though, should it happen.)

[Nebbs]

You can do whatever you want.

 

However, don't expect other players to accept it and if they don't they may pass it off as you being crazy or something, at worse they will avoid you.

 

I would suggest asking yourself what it is you want to do with this "special" feature of your character, consider how it relates to others you role play with and how it helps involvement.

 

So maybe your character has:

• glimpses of the past and other characters can supply little snippets for you
  
• glimpses of the future - make them vague so people can interpret them how they want to
  
• a sixth sense when in mortal danger that means you live but probably with some injury or consequence
  

Maybe even play it as a detriment, flaws are much better for RP than super power in my experience.

 

Keep it open to allow others to accept how they want and it can be a vehicle for RP rather than a label that people ignore.

 

And always play your character not the feature, as that gets tired really quick.

 

 

And have fun!

[Warren Castille]

And always play your character not the feature, as that gets tired really quick.

 

Can I draw any more attention to this? I want to draw more attention to this.

 

There's a distinct, miles-wide line between "Oh hey, it's Nebbs. She's got the Echo" and "Oh hey, it's the Echo-user."

 

No amount of add-ons or templates can make a bland person interesting. I'm going to sound like (well, like me!) a grump when I say this, but it's more important to be interesting before the use of secrets/bonuses/perks. There's a ton of interesting characters on the RPC who are just... people. People who inhabit the world and just tells the stories that would exist there. We've got cops and guards and merchants and barmaids and gamblers and cooks and they've made some of the best open-world RP I've ever had the pleasure of joining.

[g0ne]

To be quite honest, I actually have no intention of giving Eleni the Echo, so she doesn't have it. I will prefer to RP a normal character, someone realistic and believable. And I guess RPing with someone like that is more fun too.

 

Side question: Not having the Echo of course does not dictate that your character cannot have exceptional skills in combat and other arts, right?

[LiveVoltage]

It's not impossible to play a character with the Echo, but there are general rules and restrictions that apply to it.

 

So far as I know, the Echo can give you three benefits:

 

• The ability to see past and future events based on visions. Causes temporary sickness akin to aether sickness.
  
• The Echo grant's you extraordinary power to fight when you're in dire straights.
  
• The Echo allows you to understand the language of other foreign races or people.
  

The general rule to this is that you cannot have all of them. You can only have one and that benefit sticks with the character permanently. Only the 1.0 warrior's of Light and the 2.0 warrior of light (IE: the player character) can have all the powers available from the echo.

 

Also, players with the Echo are completely resistant to things that can control or influence them such as Primal tempering or Dragons enthralling.

 

Generally, a few people play characters with the Echo, but if you play it, it need's to be done in a tasteful manner. Keep the secret you have it on the down low and only mention it when it's relevance is very important to the current RP.

[Warren Castille]

Side question: Not having the Echo of course does not dictate that your character cannot have exceptional skills in combat and other arts, right?

 

All having the Echo does is grant you the Echo. Your personal skills and abilities are completely their own.

[g0ne]

Yup. I try to do that. Make Eleni's character define her, not her perks. I try. I hope it works. 

[Jana]

understanding other languages seem to be the only constant. I might be mis-remembering though.

 

Actually in 1.0, the Player Character was the only Echo user in all of the Path of the Twelve who had the ability to understand all languages. So it's more likely a rare trait. The only two commonplace traits are the ability to go inside other people's minds and resist tempering. That we've seen so far.

 

Sounsyy corrected me on this one not too long ago, so if you wanted your character to have the bare minimum of the Echo, you wouldn't need to give him/her the ability to understand all languages.

 

That said, you're also totally free to give them a more powerful Echo if you wish! It hasn't really come up in RP yet, but I'll probably keep the language ability on my character who has the Echo, even if it was from an incorrect remembrance...

 

On the other hand, RPing a dive into someone else's mind can be tricky to pull off, especially if the target is another RP character. It might be easy to pull OOC information from their profile or wiki, but you should still check with the player first!

[Flynn Bladebreaker]

It'd be interesting to see. I planned to have my character have some form of it last year but I never got around to it. But I think I'd have Flynn use it only when he needs to. Not likely to happen but if he was to fight a primal for the first time that would be when he uses the Echo. Or meeting some talking monsters and the group doesn't know what they're saying, he'll say "You can't understand them? How come I can?" but those are just examples.

 

So.. maybe I'll use it, maybe I wont. I wont use it for attention or for godly powers, it's gotta be done right and realistically.

 

At the end of the day, it's a Final Fantasy game. Impossible hair physics, giant swords and fat chocobos.

[Zyrusticae]

It hasn't come up yet, but if I ever do have T'rahnu have a "vision" I'll only show what you see during the main story cutscenes: she'll zone out for a bit and become unresponsive, and then quickly recover.

 

No one has to know what she saw, and she is not obligated to tell anybody that she saw anything.

 

• The Echo grant's you extraordinary power to fight when you're in dire straights.
  

I should note that this point is entirely contingent on Hydaelyn being available to help you in the first place. The storyline in 2.3 makes it abundantly clear that Hydaelyn is tired, possibly bereft of aether, and that you cannot call upon her for assistance when she is in this state.

 

It should also be noted that the reason you cannot be tempered with the Echo is because you are one of Hydaelyn's "Chosen" - it's basically the same thing as being "tempered by The Mother Crystal". If a primal tries to temper people who are already tempered by another primal, it will fail simply because they are already tempered by someone else.

[Yssen]

It should also be noted that the Echo cannot be used at will by characters. The language effect is passive, and the visions and memory dive stuff is not consciously triggered by the user. 

 

I would also chime in agreement with the "do not think of it as a power, think of it as a flaw" sentiment Nebbs mentioned. I know my character is certainly not please to have it. ;p

[LiveVoltage]

I would also chime in agreement with the "do not think of it as a power, think of it as a flaw" sentiment Nebbs mentioned. I know my character is certainly not please to have it. ;p

Agreed, Echo users arent exactly the most background group characters. If you have the Echo, you have a power beyond the grasp of most people, thus making you important.

[Warren Castille]

I would also chime in agreement with the "do not think of it as a power, think of it as a flaw" sentiment Nebbs mentioned. I know my character is certainly not please to have it. ;p

Agreed, Echo users arent exactly the most background group characters. If you have the Echo, you have a power beyond the grasp of most people, thus making you important.

 

So they tell themselves.

 

:cactuar:

[LiveVoltage]

I would also chime in agreement with the "do not think of it as a power, think of it as a flaw" sentiment Nebbs mentioned. I know my character is certainly not please to have it. ;p

Agreed, Echo users arent exactly the most background group characters. If you have the Echo, you have a power beyond the grasp of most people, thus making you important.

 

So they tell themselves.

 

:cactuar:

Well to be honest, whats the point of having the echo if you wont use it in RP? Not that I care how people choose to play characters, but if you don't use the Echo for RP reasons every now and then, its nothing better than a head decoration for a character.

[Coatleque]

Well to be honest, whats the point of having the echo if you wont use it in RP? Not that I care how people choose to play characters, but if you don't use the Echo for RP reasons every now and then, its nothing better than a head decoration for a character.

 

The only thing I've seen people use the Echo for in RP is to explain how they can do IC Primal runs.

[LiveVoltage]

Well to be honest, whats the point of having the echo if you wont use it in RP? Not that I care how people choose to play characters, but if you don't use the Echo for RP reasons every now and then, its nothing better than a head decoration for a character.

 

The only thing I've seen people use the Echo for in RP is to explain how they can do IC Primal runs.

Yeah but for all purposes, that would still be considered using it for RP, which my point still stands that its nothing more than a head decoration outside of primals if you dont use it for relevant RP purposes every now and then, but hey, its not my character so I dont really care how people RP with theirs if they have the echo.

[Xenedra]

I don't think it's been brought up yet (totally brought up while I was typing lul), but the echo also apparently keeps those with it from being tempered by primals. This is the only reason I've thought to give it to my character, but it seemed foolish not to after how many primal fights she took part in in 1.0. I always planned to just have it be dormant and not address it since I didn't really want it .

 

On the flip side, we have solid confirmation that you can avoid tempering if you're aware of what's going on and dodgey enough and we also now know that some primals don't even bother with it. With all this info in my back pocket, I'm pretty much settled on dropping the echo, myself.

[Berrod Armstrong]

Well to be honest, whats the point of having the echo if you wont use it in RP? Not that I care how people choose to play characters, but if you don't use the Echo for RP reasons every now and then, its nothing better than a head decoration for a character.

 

The only thing I've seen people use the Echo for in RP is to explain how they can do IC Primal runs.

Yeah but for all purposes, that would still be considered using it for RP, which my point still stands that its nothing more than a head decoration outside of primals if you dont use it for relevant RP purposes every now and then, but hey, its not my character so I dont really care how people RP with theirs if they have the echo.

No, it simply becomes a matter of the player portraying the character, and not having it revolve around the Echo.

[Warren Castille]

Different strokes for different folks. Some want the danger to be "How do I avoid being immolated and melted into my armor?" Some want the danger to be "How do I avoid being immolated and melted into my armor and also not turned into a mindless thrall?"

 

Mortal danger and heroic danger aren't entirely different when it comes down to it. Same issues, different motivations. I think of it like a difficulty slider but that seems somewhat offensive to folks choosing superpowers.

[LiveVoltage]

No, it simply becomes a matter of the player portraying the character, and not having it revolve around the Echo.

but... that doesn't make any sense. If you have the Echo, you're obviously going to have to revolve RP around the mechanic eventually. Its only really a matter of time till you have too.

 

Either that or I just dont grasp the concept of having a cool toy to play with but not playing with it intentionally.     @_@

[LiadansWhisper]

No, it simply becomes a matter of the player portraying the character, and not having it revolve around the Echo.

but... that doesn't make any sense. If you have the Echo, you're obviously going to have to revolve RP around the mechanic eventually. Its only really a matter of time till you have too.

 

Either that or I just dont grasp the concept of having a cool toy to play with but not playing with it intentionally.     @_@

 

Why does RP ever have to revolve around the Echo mechanic?

[Berrod Armstrong]

No, it simply becomes a matter of the player portraying the character, and not having it revolve around the Echo.

but... that doesn't make any sense. If you have the Echo, you're obviously going to have to revolve RP around the mechanic eventually. Its only really a matter of time till you have too.

 

Either that or I just dont grasp the concept of having a cool toy to play with but not playing with it intentionally.     @_@

 

The RP does not necessarily have to revolve around the mechanic -- instead, the echo can be an ACCESSORY to whatever is happening at the moment. It's like...the echo isn't the star of the show on center stage. It's part of the stage decorations that makes the storytelling possible. The star is your character itself. The Echo is just something they've got -- that's the philosophy that helps make a great story. 

 

Even if at some point the character chooses to say -- run a story arc featuring the echo as the main thing, it -STILL- isn't what the story revolves around; it becomes the focus for that arc, and even then takes a side seat to the character him/herself (regarding what they learn/experience/feel). 

 

Play with the cool toy, by all means! Just don't let the cool toy be the one playing with the character. 

 

 

Think of how annoying it is when someone speaks a different language and Mr Echo comes in. "OH. I CAN UNDERSTAND. WITH THE ECHO." 

 

"OH, A PRIMAL? I CAN FIGHT IT. WITH THE ECHO."

 

"HNGH! I WON THE GRINDSTONE. WITH THE ECHO."

 

"I THINK I NEED TO PEE. SO SAITH THE ECHO."

 

Instead, Mr. Echo can be portrayed simply understanding the different language and reacting to the way others can't. Confusion, smugness.

 

During the primal battle, he can hold himself as doomed to thrallhood, only to survive with a free mind -- that can have a metric arseton of cool follow up regarding emotions and fallout that has nothing to do with the echo itself. 

 

If he won the Grindstone because Mama Crystal sneezed out a little extra aether for him, instead of having it revolve around the echo, just focus on the victory, the thrill, his reaction to recognizing himself as stronger than the others.

 

And if -- huh. Well, this one is easy, just go emote the guy taking a piss! IT'S SUCH RELIEF.

 

In all those examples the echo is USED, but not allowed to mark the character as anyone too much more important than others. It's ALLLL about Mr. Echo, not THE Echo, although it was the reason why he could accomplish all those things. 

 

The echo is not a head decoration, nor is it THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE. It's simply an accessory that provides opportunities and influences events.

 

That's what I mean!