Thoughts on the Au Ra?

[Aya]

Alright then.. but that's basically tautology.  You can only change something by changing it, that's true.  But that doesn't mean that people cannot have, express, and discuss their varied opinions on something without someone implying, "if you don't like it, you should do something about it." 

 

Everyone has different opinions, and perhaps just as importantly, different weights of importance that they give to their opinions.  I do not understand why discussion threads such as these devolve into the validity of opinions, that is not something that should even come up, let alone crop up in virtually every discussion thread that appears on this forum any more.

[Berrod Armstrong]

Y'know, now that I think about it, I think I would have preferred if the guys had been designed in a way that conformed to the girls. There are no dainty, fragile, non-muscle-bound men in this game. This would have been an excellent opportunity.

 

But nope.

 

If you're unsure then you probably didn't read the post properly. He broke it down element by element and basically demonstrated that it's no more of a big deal than any of the other races.

 

No, I read his post quite thoroughly. And I disagree on pretty much every assertion. They do not look the same. I'll also point out that one of the chief complaints is that "big male/tiny female" is an overplayed design trope, so attempting to point out other races that may conform to it doesn't exactly do the defense much good.

Except that he didn't say they look the same, he said that there isn't much of a difference -- and compared what differences there were to the differences seen in the males and females of the other races. As for the big male/tiny female overplayed trope: it's standard, it's part of their art style and it isn't going to change unless someone who wants to change it gets in there and changes it!

 

Alright then.. but that's basically tautology.  You can only change something by changing it, that's true.  But that doesn't mean that people cannot have, express, and discuss their varied opinions on something without someone implying, "if you don't like it, you should do something about it." 

 

Everyone has different opinions, and perhaps just as importantly, different weights of importance that they give to their opinions.  I do not understand why discussion threads such as these devolve into the validity of opinions, that is not something that should even come up, let alone crop up in virtually every discussion thread that appears on this forum any more.

I quoted my own post here so that I -- as well as anyone else -- could see exactly what I said. Nowhere did I imply 'if don't like it, you should do something about it'. No. It's not my place to tell people those things, and I would not.

 

I said, it isn't going to change until someone who wants to change it gets in there and changes it.

 

Because I can't tell you what to do.

 

I did not invalidate anyone's opinions, silence anyone, tell anyone to go make their own game. I stated something that is true. An irritating and uncomfortable truth for some, which is why I can understand the heated -- and awfully presumptuous -- responses. 

 

"Huh, that wall's color isn't going to change until someone paints it!"

 

"ARGH, I AM TIRED OF PEOPLE TELLING ME THAT I SHOULD GO AND PAINT THE WALL."

 

Again, people are used to catty, awful meanness on the internet and tend to have their guards and hackles up AND the claws out, ready to retaliate -- so the responses didn't surprise me. But yeah, it's true. THEY are perfectly capable of changing it, but it's not what they want, so they won't. Not to mention the majority of players don't seem to really object to the style. We're a minority after all, us roleplayers. For myself, I have no problem with it because I'm waiting to see why the race is as they are before saying anything -- and if there's no lore reason, I know full well that it's the style of the franchise and hey, I'm okay with it! They're beautiful models, and as characters I'm sure they're capable of being strong, willful and goddamned great.

 

I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's opinion. I'm stating the reality of things, and placing a bit of my own opinion in there as commentary.

[Harmonixer]

If the thing I'm hearing about their origins are true, it won't be the first time something like this has happened:

 

 

I can't be the only one that thought of that. The story behind this one for those who don't know, is something along the lines of this: Pictured is the daughter of a goddess that feel in love with an insane outcast dragon. She was born with an awful power, so they locked her away in a fairytale style painting in efforts to protect her (or others from her). I know it's not exactly the same, but it strongly reminded me of it.

 

I admit, while I haven't been active on this game I've kept an ear to the ground for the expansion. It's always been somewhere on list of things to get back to, and I can safely say this will bring me back in a heartbeat. I'm an absolute sucker for claws and horns, having a vaguely beastial race appeals to me on many levels, since I was never completely happy with the male races of this game. I mean look at the guys, towering monsters. Not quite as elegant as the elezen, not as broad as the roegadyn and not quite as rugged as the highlanders. Yet, tailed, and have an extra 'feature'. It's perfect for my tastes.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm still really fond of of the existing ones, I wouldn't change a thing! Most preferred highlanders. So I like and appreciate them.

 

But these guys? Definitely. I have no shame in admitting it. Call me Sonic the Edgehog or Grimdark Deathkill- I think their design is just right. Having played a lot of other beast-like-type races in other games, I was always really unhappy with armor mutations. Since they have to be on everyone, they never did quite get it right. Stretched out textures and absurd clipping issues. I'd still play them, but coming of charr and draken- I'm very happy to see this.

 

That is until, they make a fully mechanical race. Automatons, biomechanical, whatever. Then again, RPing them is always a mixed bag. A big guy with horns though? I'm much more comfortable with, even if it is somewhat predictable.

 

 

EDIT:

 

I was going to refrain from commenting on the difference between the sexes, but having seen so much of it on this forum and a few other places I can't help but weigh in.

 

Personally, I like the differences. It could do with the fact that I greatly appreciate height variance between couples. I think it stems mostly from them being a good middle-ground for me. My friends have good feedback on them. I've noticed that a lot of my female friends won't play races that are drastically different from the others because they feel too out of place. The rest of them do whatever they can to stand out. All of that is perfectly fine to me.

 

I stand my ground on it, I think both sexes look great and glad they chose that direction. I've seen what people do when they have customization choices in games and they almost always pick the 'safer' routes, the more familiar and the least different. Look at every male that you know that made a short, red haired female with the largest weapon option. I'll always think back to 5 Signet black and red colorschemed Warriors from Guild Wars 2. A wealth of options, even among creative RPer leads to the same trends. And it perfectly fine, I suspect that if the females were much different, even less people would play them. They have horns, and scales that match the males, just more subtle. I like it. This is not to say they won't add more options later.

 

 

Also, my first post. Hi.

[Aya]

I did not invalidate anyone's opinions, silence anyone, tell anyone to go make their own game. I stated something that is true. An irritating and uncomfortable truth for some, which is why I can understand the heated -- and awfully presumptuous -- responses.

Alright, Berrod, that's fine.  However, I've seen multiple cases lately (including in this thread, and in your responses in C'kayah's thread last week) that boil down to, "You cannot have that opinion."  I have been terribly disappointed to see that, and it really does not seem like an isolated phenomenon, but instead what is becoming an expected reply to an opinion that is disliked.  "I disagree with X, but I don't want to explain why I disagree with X, instead I will explain why X is not an opinion that someone should have."  That is not discussion, it is not constructive, and it is not an approach that should be taken within a respectful and friendly community (it is also offensive to the idea of free and open discussion).

 

My point of view is that people ought to be able to freely express their opinion, and discuss why they hold it without the threat of being held underwater for doing so.  There are a lot of people disappointed about the Au Ra ranging from eye-rolling to distraught (okay maybe not that much!), and there are people who are really excited for them.  I found it interesting to see the two opinions expressed, and why, and it has even lead to some interesting discussion pondering the origin of the race, and how they will be represented in the game.  This is all well, and good, in fact it is the very wonderful purpose toward which a discussion forum is designed.

 

On the idea that you've expressed here, that's all well-and-good, I suppose, but it doesn't seem to really mean anything.  I may as well tell you that if you want a non-bulky male option to play that you should make your own MMO.  Is that any more responsive to what you've said on the previous page, than what you said in your reply?  Has it added anything to the discussion?

[Havoc Snow]

I'm waiting to see why the race is as they are before saying anything

 

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if there was only as much explanation for their appearance as there was for any other race. After all there is no explanation for why Miqo'te resemble cats, so why would they need to explain why Au Ra look like dragons, other than the fact that SE felt it was fitting to add a new dragon-type race to the very Dragon themed expansion?

 

I think hoping/expecting some sort of elaborate and detailed lore explanation comes from our own small niche of players and out our desire to understand the hows and whys of the world we play and RP in. It goes back to the whole Dragoon debate that was going on about a week ago and people discussing how Dragoons can jump so high, it's not explained... it just is, because that's the theme of the class.

 

So I won't be at all surprised if Heavensward comes out and we get a few paragraphs describing the race as more or less "a race of scaled people that come from Othard" and that is all.

[industrythirteen]

When I'm designing something, I go for really wildly different looks between iterations, while still keeping to a common theme. Color is generally the last thing I take into account. Silhouette and shape, shape design, shape break up is far more important to visual impact. 

 

So, what does this mindset have to do with the Au Ra? I'm down with the sexual dimorphism. I'm okay with it varying wildly. I'd even like to see MORE variation between the clan/tribal split in all the races. But, nothing I can do about that, I have no control over design direction.

 

That said, I personally don't think the Au Ra are different enough from the other races. I'd love to see even more horns, or scales or features that set them apart. yeah, they've got a tail. That's cool. I like the tail. Claws, talons, a bone structure in the face, or the legs or the feet that get away from typical homo sapien structures would excite me a little more. Maybe a different posture would be fun. Man, I hope they let us pick our horns.

[Havoc Snow]

Man, I hope they let us pick our horns.

They've shown a few models with two different horn types and two different colors so far, so I'm really REALLY hoping they have the option to pick between a few different types similar to say the Elezen ear type picker, and then color them independently of our hair/skin color. Would also really appreciate a tail length slider similar to the Miqo'te.

[Aya]

That said, I personally don't think the Au Ra are different enough from the other races. I'd love to see even more horns, or scales or features that set them apart. yeah, they've got a tail. That's cool. I like the tail. Claws, talons, a bone structure in the face, or the legs or the feet that get away from typical homo sapien structures would excite me a little more. Maybe a different posture would be fun. Man, I hope they let us pick our horns.

I would like to see some extensive facial ridges that gave the more of a draconic visage

[Naunet]

I would like to see some extensive facial ridges that gave the more of a draconic visage

 

This would help!

[Iex]

When I'm designing something, I go for really wildly different looks between iterations, while still keeping to a common theme. Color is generally the last thing I take into account. Silhouette and shape, shape design, shape break up is far more important to visual impact. 

 

So, what does this mindset have to do with the Au Ra? I'm down with the sexual dimorphism. I'm okay with it varying wildly. I'd even like to see MORE variation between the clan/tribal split in all the races. But, nothing I can do about that, I have no control over design direction.

 

That said, I personally don't think the Au Ra are different enough from the other races. I'd love to see even more horns, or scales or features that set them apart. yeah, they've got a tail. That's cool. I like the tail. Claws, talons, a bone structure in the face, or the legs or the feet that get away from typical homo sapien structures would excite me a little more. Maybe a different posture would be fun. Man, I hope they let us pick our horns.

They cannot stray too far away from the general humanoid look of other player races and keep with a consistency that the Au Ra are not a beastman race as well as the general humanoid look of PC races. Not to mention the massive armor alterations they would have to make for a less humanoid race. (Personally I would have loved if Miqo'te were less Mancat and more Catman.) (Do not quote me on that as it has not be stated in canon lore) However, in a world where dragons/beastmen are the banes of entire nations even being similar to them at all can be peril. (My theory about the Lore reason for Yugiri being masked) Also see Gridania quests were Miqo'te are called wild beasts rather than civilized individuals.

 

By the looks of what I can see from the screen shots, you will be able to pick horns (maybe) but for sure color of the scales.

 

http://imgur.com/a/MUEoR#2 Shows blue scales and horns while the other ones show black and tan. They only show two types of horns for both male and female, so either the horn type may declare clan or they just haven't  shown us all yet.

 

Here is some salt to take with this post as I cannot be held responsible as an accurate source for anything other than Au Ra exist and will be in the expac.

 

Also, cough sorry for rehashing some of the posts above me.

[Berrod Armstrong]

I did not invalidate anyone's opinions, silence anyone, tell anyone to go make their own game. I stated something that is true. An irritating and uncomfortable truth for some, which is why I can understand the heated -- and awfully presumptuous -- responses.

Alright, Berrod, that's fine.  However, I've seen multiple cases lately (including in this thread, and in your responses in C'kayah's thread last week) that boil down to, "You cannot have that opinion."  I have been terribly disappointed to see that, and it really does not seem like an isolated phenomenon, but instead what is becoming an expected reply to an opinion that is disliked.  "I disagree with X, but I don't want to explain why I disagree with X, instead I will explain why X is not an opinion that someone should have."  That is not discussion, it is not constructive, and it is not an approach that should be taken within a respectful and friendly community (it is also offensive to the idea of free and open discussion).

 

My point of view is that people ought to be able to freely express their opinion, and discuss why they hold it without the threat of being held underwater for doing so.  There are a lot of people disappointed about the Au Ra ranging from eye-rolling to distraught (okay maybe not that much!), and there are people who are really excited for them.  I found it interesting to see the two opinions expressed, and why, and it has even lead to some interesting discussion pondering the origin of the race, and how they will be represented in the game.  This is all well, and good, in fact it is the very wonderful purpose toward which a discussion forum is designed.

 

On the idea that you've expressed here, that's all well-and-good, I suppose, but it doesn't seem to really mean anything.  I may as well tell you that if you want a non-bulky male option to play that you should make your own MMO.  Is that any more responsive to what you've said on the previous page, than what you said in your reply?  Has it added anything to the discussion?

Okay so  I went back to check out the thread you mentioned to see if I had indeed done what I've been accused of. It turns out not -- hell I even said 'But we can say what we think about it!' at the end of the second post.

 

My sidelong opinion is also a part of the discussion, regardless of if it is a popular opinion or not -- turns out it's not! At least, assuming it's read correctly. And I find it particularly intriguing that I'm being called out on for invalidating someone's opinion (which I have not -- it's good to recognize an opposing stance for what it is)...and then told in the same post that the idea that I have expressed here doesn't mean anything. 

 

If I'm not mistaken, that is a splendid example of trying to invalidate someone's opinion. HOWEVER! I don't have anything else to say on that matter really, the discussion seems to be back on track in the thread and that's a wonderful thing. I do hope that my opinions expressed going forward, even if popular, are deemed as valid. 

 

Thank you for your concern.

[Kage]

I'm waiting to see the character design screen before I really care about what options there are or aren't.

[Naunet]

By the looks of what I can see from the screen shots, you will be able to pick horns (maybe) but for sure color of the scales.

 

It's possible the blue/tan scales are also tied to the clan distinction. But it's really hard to know for sure until they release customization details.

 

I've heard they're working on a new benchmark? I hope the Au Ra are included in it.

[Kage]

I've heard they're working on a new benchmark? I hope the Au Ra are included in it.

I believe it's both because of DX11 and other details in the expansion but yep there's going to be a new benchmark we can fiddle with.

[Berrod Armstrong]

I've heard they're working on a new benchmark? I hope the Au Ra are included in it.

I believe it's both because of DX11 and other details in the expansion but yep there's going to be a new benchmark we can fiddle with.

I never even got the old one...I feel like I missed out.

[Altitis Acquired]

I LOVE the looks of the male Au Ra. Couldn't care less about the females though.

 

I'm personally not really that fond of dragons though, but I LOVE demons, and the Au Ra looks close enough to one. Tall and sexy, with horns and... no pointy ears.  It looks a bit odd how the horns sprout from where the ears should be. I wonder why that is.

 

But I love how they look. My new main race, though I don't know if I am going to change my main into one or make a new one, start with one of the new jobs and get the full new experience of the expansion that way.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

I've heard they're working on a new benchmark? I hope the Au Ra are included in it.

I believe it's both because of DX11 and other details in the expansion but yep there's going to be a new benchmark we can fiddle with.

I never even got the old one...I feel like I missed out.

 

The old one (if we count 1.0's) weren't overly amazing, but do give a little peek at the world. I like that the benchmark included a character creater for 2.0, because it was a great way to get a peek at how a character would move/speak/etc before playing. (and a 2-3GB benchmark is much more portable than a 16+ GB game)

[Kage]

I actually never used the benchmark to see how my computer scored or if I could play.

 

I just said... I CAN PLAY SKYRIM?! I CAN PLAY FFXIV:ARR.

 

And then my defective ram showed and crashed me often.

[Steel Wolf]

Ooo, I'm really eager to see how the new DX11 additions make things look in the new benchmark. I'm not exactly a barn-burning rig, but DX11 makes even my mediocre-level machine look dead sexeh.

[Aya]

Okay so  I went back to check out the thread you mentioned to see if I had indeed done what I've been accused of. It turns out not -- hell I even said 'But we can say what we think about it!' at the end of the second post.

Okay, I may have put too much emphasis on the rather categorical statements at the opening of the post which certainly appear to proscribe the very idea of having an opinion on any voluntary and private transaction.  That's certainly how it was taken by the recipient of the message, and that's how I read it.  The caveat at the end didn't seem to carry nearly as much wait, but it was meant to.  Sorry for misunderstanding you

 

My sidelong opinion is also a part of the discussion, regardless of if it is a popular opinion or not -- turns out it's not! At least, assuming it's read correctly. And I find it particularly intriguing that I'm being called out on for invalidating someone's opinion (which I have not -- it's good to recognize an opposing stance for what it is)...and then told in the same post that the idea that I have expressed here doesn't mean anything.

Haha, I suppose, in a sense!  Sometimes tautologies have a purpose... :-]

 

I've also enjoyed your opinions on the Au Ra as expressed in the rest of the thread!

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Ooo, I'm really eager to see how the new DX11 additions make things look in the new benchmark.  I'm not exactly a barn-burning rig, but DX11 makes even my mediocre-level machine look dead sexeh.

 

Chances are, it'll offload some work that your graphics card could be doing from your CPU. ...little optimizations for a few more FPS and some fancy effects. SE keeps saying they won't give us the hi-res textures they said they have :

[Naunet]

Tall and sexy, with horns and... no pointy ears.  It looks a bit odd how the horns sprout from where the ears should be. I wonder why that is.

 

Reptiles often don't have external ear structures, so this part makes sense to me, as they seem to take at least some inspiration from reptilian creatures.

 

The old one (if we count 1.0's) weren't overly amazing, but do give a little peek at the world. I like that the benchmark included a character creater for 2.0, because it was a great way to get a peek at how a character would move/speak/etc before playing. (and a 2-3GB benchmark is much more portable than a 16+ GB game)

 

I used it extensively to just populate my characters' histories with various NPCs. I have an addiction to character creation tools in any game.

[Altitis Acquired]

I guess this thread is no longer about the Au Ra's then?

 

Tall and sexy, with horns and... no pointy ears.  It looks a bit odd how the horns sprout from where the ears should be. I wonder why that is.

 

Reptiles often don't have external ear structures, so this part makes sense to me, as they seem to take at least some inspiration from reptilian creatures.

 

And then you respond!

 

I just wonder where their ear holes are then. Behind the horns, maybe?

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Okay so  I went back to check out the thread you mentioned to see if I had indeed done what I've been accused of. It turns out not -- hell I even said 'But we can say what we think about it!' at the end of the second post.

Okay, I may have put too much emphasis on the rather categorical statements at the opening of the post which certainly appear to proscribe the very idea of having an opinion on any voluntary and private transaction.  That's certainly how it was taken by the recipient of the message, and that's how I read it.  The caveat at the end didn't seem to carry nearly as much wait, but it was meant to.  Sorry for misunderstanding you

 

My sidelong opinion is also a part of the discussion, regardless of if it is a popular opinion or not -- turns out it's not! At least, assuming it's read correctly. And I find it particularly intriguing that I'm being called out on for invalidating someone's opinion (which I have not -- it's good to recognize an opposing stance for what it is)...and then told in the same post that the idea that I have expressed here doesn't mean anything.

Haha, I suppose, in a sense!  Sometimes tautologies have a purpose... :-]

 

I've also enjoyed your opinions on the Au Ra as expressed in the rest of the thread!

 

Couldn't we also say his tautology could be interpreted as "It's not going to change unless SE decides to change it"?

 

In this sense, yes, we the players can ask for change, but if it's been any indication from the Official Forums rants, some of the things we want happen, some don't. The dimorphism is likely in the latter.

 

...but if SE gave us more character creation options? (Especially eyebrows for Highlander men), I'd be emitting some hi-pitched scream that would scare people away.

[Berrod Armstrong]

It still is, I think!

 

Speaking of which -- I really enjoy the elegant, haunting look of the female Au ra's eyes. I think I said it before but I seriously cannot get over it.