Discussion of "Polyamory: A Roleplaying Guide"

[K'nahli]

((This topic has been created after being split from an existing one. The original creator was Lilithium))

 

Um... I've been trying to understand the Sunseeker mindset, so I checked this guide out, but so far I admit that nothing has been clarified for me about the way they think or feel (X_X)

After thinking, I have the impression that the harem structure of the miqo'te (which sounds like mere business devoid of any sort of romance) is unrelated to "polyamory".

 

(I must say that I'm not a fan of neither harems and polyamory, but I won't go into details because it's not really my business).

 

The nuhn is the only person whose role is polyamorous, everyone else simply must accept that he cannot greedily restrict himself to a single mate when siring more children is in the tribe's agenda.

 

K'mih doesn't have to have a shallow form of love nor a shallow perception of love, she must simply decide if she can love the current nuhn - and if not, then not have a relationship at all. The only thing I'd recommend is for her to perhaps have an unclear idea of what love is supposed to be since it probably won't be something that is actively taught though at the same time not something hidden away.

 

 

Basically, she is not told who she has to love, she is merely given a single option(until the nuhn title shifts) and it's her choice whether to accept it or not - and that is only to say if love is necessary for her or not, which understandably, you want it to be. Some women will abide by duty, others by the desire to have a child and others again out of attraction.

 

---

Mod's note:

This is the whole of the discussion inspired by the guide by Lilithium posted here:

 

Polyamory: A Roleplaying Guide

 

Please feel free to continue the discussion here, rather than in the guide itself.

[ArmachiA]

I always figured with the Seekers, it was less Emotional Bonding and more Breeding Rights. The Nuhn is the breeder, but emotional bonds are formed elsewhere.

[K'nahli]

I always figured with the Seekers, it was less Emotional Bonding and more Breeding Rights. The Nuhn is the breeder, but emotional bonds are formed elsewhere.

 

That's a possible route but for our tribe personally, all other forms of intimacy are discouraged among opposite-sex individuals to prevent accidental pregnancies and people refraining from breeding out of loyalty(or whatever) to their true partner.

[Zetchryn]

Um... I've been trying to understand the Sunseeker mindset, so I checked this guide out, but so far I admit that nothing has been clarified for me about the way they think or feel (X_X)

After thinking, I have the impression that the harem structure of the miqo'te (which sounds like mere business devoid of any sort of romance) is unrelated to "polyamory".

 

(I must say that I'm not a fan of neither harems and polyamory, but I won't go into details because it's not really my business).

 

 

Yeah, by all means, the Sunseekers are... Not... Traditional Polyamory in the slightest. I'm still wrapping my mind around what they are, but do not let that push you away from it. Harems are not what Polyamory is about. It's merely about the ability to love more then one person.

[Naunet]

I always figured with the Seekers, it was less Emotional Bonding and more Breeding Rights. The Nuhn is the breeder, but emotional bonds are formed elsewhere.

 

That's a possible route but for our tribe personally, all other forms of intimacy are discouraged among opposite-sex individuals to prevent accidental pregnancies and people refraining from breeding out of loyalty(or whatever) to their true partner.

 

Not wholly accurate. I think it may be hard for people to grasp the kinds of relationships present in Seeker tribes because it is so very different from what we are used to in real life. That said, the only "intimacy" that is restricted in the Hipparion tribe is the kind that usually ends in babies. It's perfectly valid to have emotional connections elsewhere; however, if a woman and a Tia end up developing a strong romantic bond, I think it's probably likely that said Tia may make an effort to either 1) challenge the Nunh, or 2) just strike out on his own to establish a new territory and family-tribe. The first choice would be the most common. You have to consider the dynamics from a very non-Judeo-Christian-monogamous mindset. 

 

"Bob is the Nunh, but I'm in love with Jerry! I don't like Bob and didn't support him when he challenged the past Nunh. Maybe I should encourage Jerry to challenge Bob and try to win over some of my other sisters. I can even help train him so that he's sure to win!"

 

Or, as is playing out in our current plot, it may look something like this: "Bob was nice at first, but I've really gotten to know Jerry lately, and I think he'd make a much better father than Bob... I don't hate Bob, but all of Bob's kids are messed up and Bob is so distant! That makes me sad, but Jerry is nice and I could be happy with him as Nunh..."

[Dogberry]

Bah. Just do it like a pride of lions. Send the women out hunting, eat the other males.

[D'aito Kuji]

I always figured with the Seekers, it was less Emotional Bonding and more Breeding Rights. The Nuhn is the breeder, but emotional bonds are formed elsewhere.

 

That's a possible route but for our tribe personally, all other forms of intimacy are discouraged among opposite-sex individuals to prevent accidental pregnancies and people refraining from breeding out of loyalty(or whatever) to their true partner.

 

The way I RP this for D'aito's tribe was that opposite sex intimacy was generally frowned upon and discouraged but same sex intimacy was not.  In RP, D'aito Kuji keeps these kinds of things to herself and will only reluctantly speak about it.  She understands that "outsiders" struggle to understand some of the practices of the Miqo'te.  D'aito left her tribe precisely because she could not accept the new Nuhn who she knew gained his position illegitimately over her sire.

 

Of course, other players simply ignore the lore or establish different backgrounds for their characters and that's fine as far as I'm concerned.  But I like the lore and the complications it places on my character.  I play a non-human character for a reason.

 

I am uncertain how polyamory fits into the Seeker model.  But I can see how if someone wanted to tinker with the harem model, it could work.  I have ZERO issues with polyamory as I have an unconventional lifestyle myself and like my character am openly bisexual (which I've sometimes heard is an excuse to be a slut).

 

I'm very eager to see where this thread goes and I might retcon some of D'aito's backstory as I learn more.

[K'nahli]

 

Not wholly accurate. I think it may be hard for people to grasp the kinds of relationships present in Seeker tribes because it is so very different from what we are used to in real life. That said, the only "intimacy" that is restricted in the Hipparion tribe is the kind that usually ends in babies. It's perfectly valid to have emotional connections elsewhere; however, if a woman and a Tia end up developing a strong romantic bond, I think it's probably likely that said Tia may make an effort to either 1) challenge the Nunh, or 2) just strike out on his own to establish a new territory and family-tribe. The first choice would be the most common. You have to consider the dynamics from a very non-Judeo-Christian-monogamous mindset. 

 

 

Eh, really? I thought the laws stated that even kissing was wrong just because it could potentially lead to more?

 

 

The way I RP this for D'aito's tribe was that opposite sex intimacy was generally frowned upon and discouraged but same sex intimacy was not.

 

If I recall correctly, same-sex relations are frowned upon in our tribe but not actually illegal since there is no real danger to it.

 

 

Of course, other players simply ignore the lore or establish different backgrounds for their characters and that's fine as far as I'm concerned.  But I like the lore and the complications it places on my character.  I play a non-human character for a reason.

 

If that's to imply that my version of Seeker's being monogamously-inclined is against the lore then I'm not quite sure why you would say that. Just because their culture dictates such normals it doesn't necessarily mean(and I don't think it's even a stretch to say) that it's how they're biologically motivated.

 

 

I am uncertain how polyamory fits into the Seeker model.  But I can see how if someone wanted to tinker with the harem model, it could work.  I have ZERO issues with polyamory as I have an unconventional lifestyle myself and like my character am openly bisexual (which I've sometimes heard is an excuse to be a slut).

 

I think it's a justifiable route to take but I don't think it's incredibly biased to believe that it's just not a natural feeling to them. That is, of course, quite debatable but that's just me!

 

[Naunet]

 

Not wholly accurate. I think it may be hard for people to grasp the kinds of relationships present in Seeker tribes because it is so very different from what we are used to in real life. That said, the only "intimacy" that is restricted in the Hipparion tribe is the kind that usually ends in babies. It's perfectly valid to have emotional connections elsewhere; however, if a woman and a Tia end up developing a strong romantic bond, I think it's probably likely that said Tia may make an effort to either 1) challenge the Nunh, or 2) just strike out on his own to establish a new territory and family-tribe. The first choice would be the most common. You have to consider the dynamics from a very non-Judeo-Christian-monogamous mindset. 

 

 

Eh, really? I thought the laws stated that even kissing was wrong just because it could potentially lead to more?

 

Who said romantic or otherwise emotional connections necessitate kissing?

[K'nahli]

Who said romantic or otherwise emotional connections necessitate kissing?

 

I'm sorry, this line confused me:

 

That said, the only "intimacy" that is restricted in the Hipparion tribe is the kind that usually ends in babies...

 

I was referring to the girl who mentioned emotional bonds being sought elsewhere being an option. Reading her words too literally would back up your point but I interpreted it as her saying that absolutely anything goes so long as pregnancy is not a risk, to which I countered saying that our tribe was slightly more strict because it disallowed virtually all physical contact in case emotions got the better of a couple whom were initially refraining from the pregnancy-inducing act.

 

I didn't say physical but it was implied, sorry.

 

Mod note by FreelanceWizard: Text related to excised parts of the thread was removed.

[D'aito Kuji]

 

Not wholly accurate. I think it may be hard for people to grasp the kinds of relationships present in Seeker tribes because it is so very different from what we are used to in real life. That said, the only "intimacy" that is restricted in the Hipparion tribe is the kind that usually ends in babies. It's perfectly valid to have emotional connections elsewhere; however, if a woman and a Tia end up developing a strong romantic bond, I think it's probably likely that said Tia may make an effort to either 1) challenge the Nunh, or 2) just strike out on his own to establish a new territory and family-tribe. The first choice would be the most common. You have to consider the dynamics from a very non-Judeo-Christian-monogamous mindset. 

 

 

Eh, really? I thought the laws stated that even kissing was wrong just because it could potentially lead to more?

 

 

The way I RP this for D'aito's tribe was that opposite sex intimacy was generally frowned upon and discouraged but same sex intimacy was not.

 

If I recall correctly, same-sex relations are frowned upon in our tribe but not actually illegal since there is no real danger to it.

 

 

Of course, other players simply ignore the lore or establish different backgrounds for their characters and that's fine as far as I'm concerned.  But I like the lore and the complications it places on my character.  I play a non-human character for a reason.

 

If that's to imply that my version of Seeker's being monogamously-inclined is against the lore then I'm not quite sure why you would say that. Just because their culture dictates such normals it doesn't necessarily mean(and I don't think it's even a stretch to say) that it's how they're biologically motivated.

 

 

I am uncertain how polyamory fits into the Seeker model.  But I can see how if someone wanted to tinker with the harem model, it could work.  I have ZERO issues with polyamory as I have an unconventional lifestyle myself and like my character am openly bisexual (which I've sometimes heard is an excuse to be a slut).

 

I think it's a justifiable route to take but I don't think it's incredibly biased to believe that it's just not a natural feeling to them. That is, of course, quite debatable but that's just me!

 

 

I'm sorry but I didn't have you in mind at all when I wrote about some players ignoring the lore.  I apologize that it came across that way.  I was meaning to point out my distaste for players who RP Miqo'te as humans with cat ears and tails.

 

Your interpretation of the Lore is even better than what I had because it makes D'aito Kuji's abandonment of her tribe even more viable and reasonable.

 

As far as other types of intimacy is concerned, unless I'm mistaken, there's no hard and fast rule.  I personally can't imagine living in a society where my only opportunity for sex is when I'd be expected to breed.  But Miqo'te aren't people and if the lore comes out and says that Miqo'te are only intimate when it's breeding time, then that's how I'd play her.

[Kage]

Thank you for the wonderful, though sometimes not the easiest to read, posts.

 

(I love you, every single one of you, but the different colors in the IC posts and others just drives my brain insane)

 

I certainly do respect both the post and so long as everyone is treated with the love and care they deserve, it's none of mah business.

 

Though, granted, I have not seen much in the way of the Keeper lore but I haven't seen it generally stated that there is something close to polyamory in it. Have I completely missed it because sunseekers are so... haha out there (I mean, they specifically have the titles for Breeding males and non-breeders...)

[Naunet]

@K'nahli: I see where the confusion was now.  To clarify: physical intimacy with any guy other than the Nunh = a no-no. Emotional intimacy is fine, but that is likely to lead to the Tia in question (if it's a hetero relationship, at least) wanting to or being encouraged to challenge the Nunh.

 

I'm not sure if that specifically qualifies as polyamorous? Jealousy would be a foreign concept to that kind of relationship structure, save with maybe a few exceptions that would be outside the norm (read: "Man, that Susie is super weird. She flips out whenever the Nunh has some personal time with anyone but her. The Elders should really have a talk with her."), so in that respect where it's all mutual relations across multiple people, I guess it is kind of polyamorous.

 

Mod note by FreelanceWizard: Text related to excised parts of the thread was removed.

[K'nahli]

 

I'm sorry but I didn't have you in mind at all when I wrote about some players ignoring the lore.  I apologize that it came across that way.  I was meaning to point out my distaste for players who RP Miqo'te as humans with cat ears and tails.

 

Your interpretation of the Lore is even better than what I had because it makes D'aito Kuji's abandonment of her tribe even more viable and reasonable.

 

As far as other types of intimacy is concerned, unless I'm mistaken, there's no hard and fast rule.  I personally can't imagine living in a society where my only opportunity for sex is when I'd be expected to breed.  But Miqo'te aren't people and if the lore comes out and says that Miqo'te are only intimate when it's breeding time, then that's how I'd play her.

 

Ehh? Please don't apologise, haha. I just wasn't sure what it was that you were implying.

 

And yes, absolutely. There is certainly no concrete rule it all. It was fabricated entirely by our tribe and it wasn't meant as any form of guideline for anyone else(though it would be welcomed of course!). Our structure is quite strict when I think about it but breeding time isn't the only time permitted assuming that a huntress whom supports a nuhn is willing. In that case it can function as a normal relationship... though having said that I guess that also carries the risk of an unwanted pregnancy.... hm..

[Naunet]

And yes, absolutely. There is certainly no concrete rule it all. It was fabricated entirely by our tribe and it wasn't meant as any form of guideline for anyone else(though it would be welcomed of course!). Our structure is quite strict when I think about it but breeding time isn't the only time permitted assuming that a huntress whom supports a nuhn is willing. In that case it can function as a normal relationship... though having said that I guess that also carries the risk of an unwanted pregnancy.... hm..

 

Heh, those are the risks indeed, but considering the kind of situation our Hipparion tribe in particular live(d)(s) in, it would be important to have a lot of kids (especially during any times of plenty), to replace the likely high number of lives lost.

[Kage]

BUT UM.

 

Still, outside of generally just people having polyamorous relationships and the breeding/non-breeding type of relationships that sunseekers have... I honestly thought moonkeepers were "traditional" or monogamists.

 

I remember someone posting dialogue about how weird one relationship was because it was one male with multiple women but I assumed that the dialogue was saying it was odd because it is "like" sunseeker relationships. I could see the implications that it's strange that all the women only want the one guy but I assumed the oddity was because it was not traditional in the Judeo-Christian monogamous sense.

[Zetchryn]

BUT UM.

 

Still, outside of generally just people having polyamorous relationships and the breeding/non-breeding type of relationships that sunseekers have... I honestly thought moonkeepers were "traditional" or monogamists.

 

I remember someone posting dialogue about how weird one relationship was because it was one male with multiple women but I assumed that the dialogue was saying it was odd because it is "like" sunseeker relationships. I could see the implications that it's strange that all the women only want the one guy but I assumed the oddity was because it was not traditional in the Judeo-Christian monogamous sense.

 

Perhaps indeed. I'm still trying to figure out Sunseekers, myself. As it is, my current story has A'zireena as mostly an orphan, no idea who her father is (which already speaks to her mother either having left a tribe, or being exiled, or sleeping with a Tia and running), and her mother dead. She hasn't been involved in main Sunseeker life since.

[K'nahli]

And yes, absolutely. There is certainly no concrete rule it all. It was fabricated entirely by our tribe and it wasn't meant as any form of guideline for anyone else(though it would be welcomed of course!). Our structure is quite strict when I think about it but breeding time isn't the only time permitted assuming that a huntress whom supports a nuhn is willing. In that case it can function as a normal relationship... though having said that I guess that also carries the risk of an unwanted pregnancy.... hm..

 

 

Heh, those are the risks indeed, but considering the kind of situation our Hipparion tribe in particular live(d)(s) in, it would be important to have a lot of kids (especially during any times of plenty), to replace the likely high number of lives lost.

 

That's true but at the same time I don't think it'd be wise to throw caution to the wind and not care who gets pregnant and when since it creates an extra mouth to feed further down the line and temporarily strips a huntress from performing to the full potential of her duties(big deal post-calamity I imagine!).

 

 

But yes, you're certainly right. It's very subjective.

[Kage]

Could someone explain to me why Keepers would be polyamorous?

 

I know that sunseekers may seem so to the uninformed (why not just have those harems some other RPers want???!!) but this uninformed lala hasn't quite seen much that says they're remotely close to being it?

[Zetchryn]

(...) I do think Seeker lifestyle isn't quite polyamory--but I think Keeper lifestyle easily could be).

 

This is a really good point. I've never thought about it but Keeper's would seem to be more Polyamorous than Seekers.

 

... I'm not understanding, I think. How so? I'm still VERY new/rough on the lore, so be gentle.

 

Mod note by FreelanceWizard: Text related to excised parts of the thread was removed.

[FreelanceWizard]

All,

 

I'm in the process of cleaning up this thread, which is why it's locked at the moment. Once I'm done, I'm going to unlock it, and normal discussion can proceed.

 

EDIT: Cleanup complete. I apologize if I zapped any substantive posts by anyone, but as you know, slicing and dicing threads is a challenging process that's more art than science. If you think I missed anything, or if you want anything to be brought back, let me know via PM and I'll see what I can do.

 

#magicAdminHat

[Unnamed Mercenary]

All,

 

I'm in the process of cleaning up this thread, which is why it's locked at the moment. Once I'm done, I'm going to unlock it, and normal discussion can proceed.

 

EDIT: Cleanup complete. I apologize if I zapped any substantive posts by anyone, but as you know, slicing and dicing threads is a challenging process that's more art than science. If you think I missed anything, or if you want anything to be brought back, let me know via PM and I'll see what I can do.

 

#magicAdminHat

 

Thank you Freelance!

[Val]

All,

 

I'm in the process of cleaning up this thread, which is why it's locked at the moment. Once I'm done, I'm going to unlock it, and normal discussion can proceed.

 

EDIT: Cleanup complete. I apologize if I zapped any substantive posts by anyone, but as you know, slicing and dicing threads is a challenging process that's more art than science. If you think I missed anything, or if you want anything to be brought back, let me know via PM and I'll see what I can do.

 

#magicAdminHat

 

Thanks Freelance! You're wonderful

[111]

(...) I do think Seeker lifestyle isn't quite polyamory--but I think Keeper lifestyle easily could be).

 

This is a really good point. I've never thought about it but Keeper's would seem to be more Polyamorous than Seekers.

 

... I'm not understanding, I think. How so? I'm still VERY new/rough on the lore, so be gentle.

 

 

Well the seeker arrangement is more of a societal thing. It's not about love. If one nunh is stronger, they're in charge, the ladies don't get to vote. Though they can leave with the defeated Nunh, this seems rare.

 

Keeper relationships seem more based on romance and personal connections.

 

#also thanks freelance, even though you give me so many warnings I still <3 you!

[Aysun]

Could someone explain to me why Keepers would be polyamorous?

 

I know that sunseekers may seem so to the uninformed (why not just have those harems some other RPers want???!!) but this uninformed lala hasn't quite seen much that says they're remotely close to being it?

 

There's been snippets of lore that show Keepers as polyamorous as well. They have breeding males, just don't do the titles as Seekers do. I believe Rakka'li posted some information in the "Miqo'te mating strategies" thread recently.

 

As far as polyamory goes, I am one of those people who admittedly is taken aback by it. I cannot fathom being in one, and even struggle to RP such a thing, because it is so foreign to me. I know it's a legitimate relationship preference, so despite the formatting making this a bit of a difficult read as has been said, it was interesting.