Cross-species / Cross clans offspring

[Altitis Acquired]

What for?

 

 

Is it the part that people don't think Lalas are sexy?

Or maybe because people don't think it appropriate to crossbreed Lalas with other races?

[C'kayah Polaali]

Stuff about Keepers

 

I'll readily admit that the word "clan" isn't in lore. I'm just using it to refer to these groupings of families, as a way of keeping them distinct from Seeker tribes.

 

However! I don't see why Keepers being matriarchal or "groups of families" organized would imply monogamy. Keeper males are rare (I can't remember where, but I read something where the ratio was somewhere between 1:5 and 1:20), so a purely monogamous Keeper family would have to have a ton of children to make up for all the females who wouldn't be having kids at all.

 

An easy alternative that springs to mind might be that a clan (i.e.: a group of families) would be 3-4 families of females and their offspring, with one or two males associated. It could either be polygynous (a number of females all share one male as their group husband), or polygamous (where each female has one or more males).

[C'kayah Polaali]

I just want to tell theincubuslord that now I'm thinking of

mrhands

while even thinking of how things work.

 

T_T

 

But I agree it's most likely that where a Lala and a Roe were actually together it was definitely a Male Lalafell and a female Roe.

 

Then again, you have that one lalafell who goes "Take me Raubahn I am your sultana!"

 

Looking at dogs (where you can have some pretty serious size differences), there's usually not too many problems if the father is bigger than the mother. If it's an extreme difference, then there can be birth complications, but they're still viable with veterinary assistance. Lalafell have been civilized for a very long time (lore hints at Ul'dah being old), so I don't see why their medical skill wouldn't be able to cope with it.

[Kinono]

Looking at dogs (where you can have some pretty serious size differences), there's usually not too many problems if the father is bigger than the mother. If it's an extreme difference, then there can be birth complications, but they're still viable with veterinary assistance. Lalafell have been civilized for a very long time (lore hints at Ul'dah being old), so I don't see why their medical skill wouldn't be able to cope with it.

 

I wonder how likely cesarian section-style births are? Given the prevalence of preventative and responsive healing magics... Given the right people with the right skills in the right location, I could see this being "common enough."

[Mae]

Keeper males are rare (I can't remember where, but I read something where the ratio was somewhere between 1:5 and 1:20), so a purely monogamous Keeper family would have to have a ton of children to make up for all the females who wouldn't be having kids at all.

This is actually kind of how I imagined things to go >_>

 

The Matriarch is the only one who has children, and she keeps having children until she has at least one son (or at least a son and a daughter, on the chance she has a son first). Having a son is what guarantees the next generation, and she will trade sons with an unrelated/distant Matriarch so she'll have an unrelated male to 'give' to the daughter that succeeds her. Remaining daughters are encouraged to stay around to act as a court to the new Matriarch, but no-one really keeps them from wandering off to possibly find a 'free' male or whatever (less competition/opportunities to backstab). If a Matriarch dies before her mate and before she has a viable successor, one of her sisters can claim the now-free male and become the new Matriarch.

 

... I guess in a way what I was picturing was a sort of reverse of what the Seekers have when it comes to breeding rights -- a Keeper Matriarch is like a Nuhn, and all her sisters/daughters are like Tias. Since the breeding pool consists of one male, it -is- a monogamous relationship. There's just potential that a male could have multiple partners over the course of his breeding life because he got traded to a family that is prone to drama and backstabbing >_>

[Kinono]

What for?

 

 

Is it the part that people don't think Lalas are sexy?

Or maybe because people don't think it appropriate to crossbreed Lalas with other races?

 

I'm mostly just teasing, but yes.  All of that.

[Altitis Acquired]

What for?

 

 

Is it the part that people don't think Lalas are sexy?

Or maybe because people don't think it appropriate to crossbreed Lalas with other races?

 

I'm mostly just teasing, but yes.  All of that.

 

Hehe, fair enough. ;P

[Dravus]

That being said... no, Roegadyns being physically large does not necessarily mean their penis size scales in proportion to their bodies. Gorillas have notoriously small penises, for example, relative to their body mass (1.5 inches!). 

 

Heh. I'm glad someone brought this up as it's always been a pet peeve of mine when it comes to the larger races in MMO's. Whilst I get that the idea of a major size difference between two different races may be a major turn on for some people it's not necessarily a canon fact that the biggest race is the most well hung.

 

Not to get too deep into territory that might get me into trouble but...it's well worth noting that in the real world it's very common for tall and/or naturally athletic/lean/slim guys to be well endowed. Not in every case, mind you, but personally I'd consider it more likely that the Elezen, Miqo'te Hyur and Au Ra will be the most...gifted in that department!

 

So I've never really bought into the idea that the Orcs of WoW or the Roegadyn are the biggest race when it comes to...that.

[Mae]

I wonder how likely cesarian section-style births are? Given the prevalence of preventative and responsive healing magics... Given the right people with the right skills in the right location, I could see this being "common enough."

Real World, cesarean births have been documented as far back as 200BC, it seems?  It was typically done only when the mother was already dead. There is some evidence that during the later part of the Roman era that a living mother did survive up to 25% of the time. 

 

And during the 1800's, European explorers in Africa observed indigenous tribes performing successful cesarean-sections on numerous occasions, and the survival rate for the mothers was quite high -- the procedures were highly developed among these people, so there was evidence that even though the people were 'primitive', they'd been performing them for a long time.

 

So... in theory, if the practice was achievable by primitive peoples, it could be achievable in a setting like the game has. Keep in mind, though, that at the same time these primitive people were developing their advanced techniques, surgery of any kind was illegal in some of parts of 'civilized' Europe.

[Blue]

That being said... no, Roegadyns being physically large does not necessarily mean their penis size scales in proportion to their bodies. Gorillas have notoriously small penises, for example, relative to their body mass (1.5 inches!).[/size]

 

But... but... they are ...

 

(see picture on actual size to read)

[Sounsyy]

 

 

I'd take a gold penis over a large penis any day. Mainly because I can sell a gold penis. Only place that'll buy the large penis is a hotdog stand.

[Dravus]

Eh, that's likely something taken with a dose of salt given that it's likely a sly reference to the phrase '...you know what they say about guys with big feet' when in reality a guy having big feet doesn't actually guarantee a big...rod.

 

They're also seemingly wenches/escorts of some description so they may simply be teasing him in order to tempt him into purchasing their services.

[Kinono]

You could just as easily post the quote in the main storyline quests regarding a particular Roe's manhood not being all too impressive.

 

:^)

 

I was never part of the Company of Heroes! I'm no marauder! I'm actually a complete coward! I'm nothin'! I'm chocobo dung! No, I'm the maggots ye find wrigglin' in chocobo dung! I have to lie to women to tumble 'em, an' that don't happen much! Me member's tiny, it's pathetic!

 

((Edited to include said quote))

[Perth]

You could just as easily post the quote in the main storyline quests regarding a particular Roe's manhood not being all too impressive.

 

:^)

 

That's just one NPC though,, and suggesting that it's not too impressive further suggests that it'd be below average. :cry: It almost re-enforces the fact that just like real people, fantasy races can come in all sorts of packages (ahurrhurr) so there's really no telling and it's not worth beating to the brink of death over every little minuscule detail and using little jokes as racially encompassing lore.

[Kinono]

That's just one NPC though

 

Yes, that was my point.

[Perth]

That's just one NPC though

 

Yes, that was my point.

 

Oh jeeze, then my apologies, I must've read that wrong

[Knight Kat]

Keeper males are rare (I can't remember where, but I read something where the ratio was somewhere between 1:5 and 1:20), so a purely monogamous Keeper family would have to have a ton of children to make up for all the females who wouldn't be having kids at all.

This is actually kind of how I imagined things to go >_>

 

The Matriarch is the only one who has children, and she keeps having children until she has at least one son (or at least a son and a daughter, on the chance she has a son first). Having a son is what guarantees the next generation, and she will trade sons with an unrelated/distant Matriarch so she'll have an unrelated male to 'give' to the daughter that succeeds her. Remaining daughters are encouraged to stay around to act as a court to the new Matriarch, but no-one really keeps them from wandering off to possibly find a 'free' male or whatever (less competition/opportunities to backstab). If a Matriarch dies before her mate and before she has a viable successor, one of her sisters can claim the now-free male and become the new Matriarch.

 

... I guess in a way what I was picturing was a sort of reverse of what the Seekers have when it comes to breeding rights -- a Keeper Matriarch is like a Nuhn, and all her sisters/daughters are like Tias. Since the breeding pool consists of one male, it -is- a monogamous relationship. There's just potential that a male could have multiple partners over the course of his breeding life because he got traded to a family that is prone to drama and backstabbing >_>

 

I could not resist responding to this thread any longer. However, I do not want to derail it into another topic about Miqo'te, so I will make this my only post about Miqo'te on this thread. I have been seeing a lot of posts about Miqo'te lately. Maybe a new thread about their lore should be made?

 

So, I would see the hypothetical structure stated by Mae as possibly viable were it not for a couple very clearly stated lore factors...

 

Keeper males are -wanderers-.

 

 

They can not be forced to be limited to one female Matriarch if they live a wanderer's lifestyle. They -are- hunters as this picture clearly says males will gift "game" to females. If a male wanders, that means he would be rather independent because the only thing that could force him to abide by anything as he wanders is his own belief system.

 

"Miqo'te are known to be very territorial, and many individuals tend to lead solitary lifestyles, particularly males. The few Miqo'te who have made the transition to life in Eorzean society are predominantly female." http://www.ffxivinfo.com/races/miqote.php

 

Again, stated that males are more solitary. Keepers are Matriarchal because the females tend to matters at home, and rule the family. They decide who they get to mate with as opposed to Seekers who have to mate with the Nunh. THAT is where Keepers and Seekers differ.

 

"rarely do even the largest Keeper of the Moon families have more than two or three sons. This is not by choice. Nature merely sees to it that more females are born to this race." http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/61150-Miqo-te-Naming-Conventions

 

Human families can get quite large.

 

For example:

 

Male and Female pair off. They have four children. Their children have four children each. By the time the original male and female are grandparents, their family will be TWENTY-TWO strong.

 

However, rarely do even the largest Keeper families have more than two or three sons. Lets say the ratio is 1 male for every 5 females born. (That is optimistic).

 

If Keepers are monogamous:

 

Family A: Male and female pair off. They have five children, only one is a male.

 

Family B: Male and female pair off. They also have five children, and likewise one is a male.

 

They "trade" males. Because they are monogamous, only one of the four daughters from each family "A" and "B" gets to have children.

 

Family A and B: Only one pair each, and each pair -must- have five children to maintain current population numbers.

 

However, they live in a dangerous place and dangerous time. If any sort of danger hits the family, and reduces numbers, or kills their one male, they are screwed. Statistically, a pair in the example above would have to have ten children each in order to get a second male which would allow for long-term population growth (which you need in order to make up for death caused by things other than old age).

 

If Keepers have a similar gestation period as humans, and birth one to two children at a time on average (also like humans) then you are looking at 5+ to 10 years for a second male to be born. That is a lot of work for a single woman, and a lot can happen in that time span. However, if male birth rate is even less then one out of every five, can you imagine the amount of children one woman would need to have just to get two males? This would only work if Miqo'te had litters of children each time, and the fact that females only have two breasts suggests not.

 

Honestly I just can't see the low male birth rate, and the fact that they wander, making it possible for long-term monogamous pairings to sustain the racial population. If Keepers are monogamous, then it would only work long-term if they practiced short-term monogamous relationships. A wandering male pairs off with a female in a group he likes, stays with her long enough to get her pregnant then leaves her and wanders to the next group to pair with a new female.

 

The lore does not clearly state how Keepers breed, but short-term monogamy, promiscuous attitudes or polyamory are the only things that make sense for long-term sustaining and growth of the Keeper population.

 

Now, as for an on-topic contribution: The lore seems to suggest that both male Seekers (Tias) and male Keepers wander. I think cross-clan mating would be more common (but still relatively uncommon) than some might expect. All it would take is a wandering Tia to find a group of Keepers, or a wandering Keeper to run into a Seeker tribe with a few females who don't like the current Nunh.

 

If you are more keen on the theory that Miqo'te are less traditional in current times then it would be even more viable. The only difference would be diurnal and nocturnal. There would be plenty of overlapping awake time for some bow chicka, and maybe a few wow-wows.

[Mae]

*snipped for space*

I stand corrected. Where is that NPC? I'm starting to feel paranoid that I might've missed a pocket of NPCs when I went scouring for lore for Luc'a >_<;

[Sounsyy]

*snipped for space*

I stand corrected. Where is that NPC? I'm starting to feel paranoid that I might've missed a pocket of NPCs when I went scouring for lore for Luc'a >_<;

 

From the latest Moogle Delivery quest "The Past Is a Story We Never Tell" which revolves around the Keeper Miqo'te of Gridania and the Coeurlclaw Poachers.

[Mae]

*snipped for space*

I stand corrected. Where is that NPC? I'm starting to feel paranoid that I might've missed a pocket of NPCs when I went scouring for lore for Luc'a >_<;

 

From the latest Moogle Delivery quest "The Past Is a Story We Never Tell" which revolves around the Keeper Miqo'te of Gridania and the Coeurlclaw Poachers.

*sighs*

 

I really shouldn't be shocked with SE when it comes to how they change or add significant Lore chunks randomly...

 

*is STILL annoyed at the pre-Bastokian Galkan naval/pirate tradition being taken away and the shipwrecked Mithran fishers being changed into pirates/mercenaries that were hired for the war*

[cuideag]

re: cross-race offspring and size differences

 

My personal headcanon thus far is that it works like in the Elder Scrolls or Pokemon, where the offspring are the same species/race as the mother and inherit some minor traits from the father. Roegadyn male + lalafell female is like this game's Wailord + Surskitty, really.

This sums up my view of it. IMO the fact that all the races are considered of the same species or whatever it is the Word of God said makes it a little silly to try and rationalize anything in terms of real-world logic and comparisons.

[Zyrusticae]

I still don't understand that mindset. It's extremely limiting and kills phylogenetic variety dead. It would imply that the races are always going to be fit within those specific physical limits and that there are NO individuals who are outliers. (Granted, this fits in keeping with the lack of body sliders but that is NOT a plus in my mind.) It also means that the races are 'designed' and, frankly, that's just a boring tack to take in my mind.

 

The only benefit of using that route is making the question of childbirth easier to answer, and given all the rest of the downsides I do not believe for a second that it is worth it.

[Naunet]

... I guess in a way what I was picturing was a sort of reverse of what the Seekers have when it comes to breeding rights -- a Keeper Matriarch is like a Nuhn, and all her sisters/daughters are like Tias. Since the breeding pool consists of one male, it -is- a monogamous relationship. There's just potential that a male could have multiple partners over the course of his breeding life because he got traded to a family that is prone to drama and backstabbing >_>

 

I wanna point out that this would not be a very good way to maintain a genetically healthy population.

[Xiaoli Vorgan]

What for?

 

 

Is it the part that people don't think Lalas are sexy?

Or maybe because people don't think it appropriate to crossbreed Lalas with other races?

 

Came back to this thread to read up just as the whole Lala conversation started up. If I were a anime, I'd have that giant awkward tear floating by my face as I back away slowly.

 

I don't believe a Roe penis would be the size of a whole lala.. but probably a lala arm or leg. Which then makes my uterus cringe for a poor lala female since that's basically imagining myself getting porked with my own arm.

 

That moment you imagine something you can't unimagine.

 

[Dravus]

I think it's understandable to be uneasy about that sort of thing. Massive size differences tend to involve a lot of pain. It's why the 'bigger is better' thing is a bit of a myth when it comes to the size of one's sausage.

 

I mean, sure it's a fantasy setting but those who like a bit of realism in their role-play are going to flinch at the mere thought.