Racial RP: How do YOU do it?

[Dravus]

I think some people are under the false impression that other people are directly dictating what their fellow role-players are able to do. Nobody can force anybody else to do anything and that's certainly not what's happening here.

 

Let's look at this thread as an example of what I'm getting at:

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=9690

 

Or if that's not enough, let's toss this one into the mix as well:

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=9312

 

Both threads contain a lot of rants fuelled by frustration. People vent, then they move on - and it's really no different when it comes to role-play. I'm not going to lose any sleep over someone playing their full-blooded Garlean as an experienced mage but I'll certainly raise an eyebrow, offer some criticism and maybe make a playful jest or two at their expense.

 

Just like I'd expect people to criticise my character if I decided to play him in a way that directly contradicted the lore. Also bear in mind I'm not referring to genuine mistakes here, but rather the willing and continued defiance of established lore. 

 

If it's any consolation I often poke fun at myself at my own expense too. It's just how I am and my sense of humour is very British. A lot of us are like that - and if people do something bizarre we tend to laugh, criticise and then move on.

 

I really can't stress how important I think that is in a community like this. You've got people from all sorts of different backgrounds, expecting them all to operate and think in the same way is both inefficient and rather concerning.

[Kinono]

It may very well be just me. My FC has died out from under me so I have to keep RP to a fairly open circle. I've met a lot of, ahem, characters.

[Aduu Avagnar]

*stands up and clears throat*

 

Hello, I'm Tim and I'm a roleplay snob.

 

There, I said it. I would rather not rp with someone who ignores major swathes of lore. Bearing in mind, that there is a difference to playing in the grey areas from outright ignoring. I even try to help people that are new to the world so they can flesh out their characters with established lore (when asked.)

 

However, if you can provide me with a kickass reason why you do what you do, that bends the lore, but doesnt outright break it? Game on, lets do that shit. Just please, for the love of Godbert, dont just say 'I am this because you can't tell me I'm wrong'

[Smiling River]

I have to be honest, I didn't read the whole thread because it's 14 pages and I'm busy. I read a handful of posts. I'm the the "follow the lore" camp myself, and challenge people to rise to the responsibility of playing their chosen part. Be it a chirurgeon or a Miqo'te. I myself play a Roegadyn currently (and had played an Elezen for a long time in 1.0) and constantly struggle with finding a balance between RP'ing a stereotype vs a Roegadyn mindset.

 

There is a huge point that maybe someone has mentioned in the pages I skipped to get here. That is that FFXIV "races" aren't really races, they are different species. I always say that a good rule of RP is to RP what you know or at least have some connection to / understanding of. That makes for immersive and realistic RP, regardless if it's solely based on lore or has some personal flare added to it. Ideally it'd be lore based, but whatever.

 

The problem with playing a non-Hyur is not simply the act of making sure to wiggle the ear, play with the tail. It's that you as a human being need to put yourself into the mindset of an entirely different species. Every. Time. You RP. That to me is the greatest challenge to authentic racial RP. It is entirely too easy to 'humanize' the other species of XIV, heck one can argue they are all sort of versions of Hyur. But the challenge is to try to think like a Miqo'te or a Roegadyn. Would they even perceive the world the way humans would? Would their thought patterns be similar or more varied, and if they're varied how so?

 

There is a quote that is apropos of this discussion; ""If a lion could speak, we couldn't understand him" - Wittgenstein. Meaning if a different species had the capability to communicate with us, we may not understand them due to their completely different reference points and way of thought.

 

We know that the various species of Eorzea can communicate, but perhaps there are not only physical differences but psychological ones Roleplayers are not exploiting? Just as an example, say you have an ailing citizen, doesn't look like they would make it. Perhaps a Lalafell, who have close familial bonds, is more likely to have the opinion that this person should be taken care of by everyone (their world view may be based on this concept). Being left alone is evil, communal support is good. That may be their moral compass, in this situation. Given the same predicament a Miqo'te may think the good choice morally is to destroy the ill person, because their mindset may be based on who can or cannot contribute to a tribe. For the Miqo'te the evil option is to keep them alive, and the good to destroy them swiftly. Their psychology would potentially explain that kind of moral compass.

 

Now that was just one example, and maybe it was a bad one at that - I am not sure if all the lore I tried to talk about there is correct, but I hope you see what I am trying to elaborate. Racial RP can be far more complex, if one truly wants to make it a challenge and step outside of playing a human with a different costume on. But I do understand how hard that road is, and by selecting a race other than Hyur we're always kind of shooting ourselves in the foot because there is a limit to how true to a different species we can role play.

[Dravus]

It may very well be just me. My FC has died out from under me so I have to keep RP to a fairly open circle. I've met a lot of, ahem, characters.

 

I don't think you're alone in that. It took me a year to find some like-minded role-players and a Free Company that I was comfortable hanging around with. Experiences can differ significantly but I think a lot of people underestimate how difficult it can be to build up a reliable and consistent network of contacts.

 

On that note you're very welcome to poke me in-game for role-play if you'd like!

[Mikha]

My first ever post, and only because my Miqo'te is my baby. I haven't read the entire thread and so these points may have been covered. As it stands, here is how I do it.

 

Ears: I do not emote my ears at all times. Sometimes I forget, others times I feel it isn't required. We have hominid features which are expressive enough on their own. Ears do however add extra flavour and so I always use them when an emotion is particularly strong. Often an ear will flicker or tick when his name or something interesting sounds within earshot.

 

Tail: Mikh'a is careful of his tail when sitting. He uses it more when he is physically engaged (leaping, sparring etc, they are part of the balance thing for the race, or so I believe). Again with strong emotions it might bristle or fall still rather than maintain an absent swish.

 

Both together: When entirely at ease, these things happen more frequently. Another thing I try to remember is that everyone has a tell. Minor body movements or ticks that others who know them would spot, and so there times when Mikh'a will appear outwardly calm for example, though his tail will fall flat or bristle ever so slightly.

 

Tribal culture: Mikh'a had a tribal upbringing. To his people, sexuality is irrelevant so long as babies are being born and so often times preferences are pushed aside during mating season (I consider this not as when females are -on heat- but instead a window that would allow babies to be born when food is plenty in the wild, since they are nomadic). As such, it's a very business-like concept for them. Mikh'a has grown from this mentality to one that is not -anything goes, i like my sex- but instead to -I am able to maintain many meaningful connections- and fails to understand the concept of monogamy.

 

TL;DR

 

Racial lore, sexual preference and such other concepts do not define my character, though I have at least considered the impact that these have on my character. We may not conform to societal norms, though they will have had some measure of influence, be it positive or negative.

[Dravus]

Racial lore, sexual preference and such other concepts do not define my character, though I have at least considered the impact that these have on my character. We may not conform to societal norms, though they will have had some measure of influence, be it positive or negative.

 

I think that's the best stance to take. One's race, background and sexuality will always have some influence upon them - even if they try to claim that it doesn't. It should never be the main defining trait however, since that just risks a character becoming a dull and predictable stereotype.

 

I grew up with a pretty rough Northern British accent. I also moved around a lot in recent years and I've gradually adjusted my accent to fit in better. Yet if I get startled, angered or excited then my original accent has a habit of emerging once more, often to the amusement of those around me!

 

I can see something like that happening with a character.

[Tiergan]

I think some people are under the false impression that other people are directly dictating what their fellow role-players are able to do. Nobody can force anybody else to do anything and that's certainly not what's happening here.

 

Let's look at this thread as an example of what I'm getting at:

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=9690

 

Or if that's not enough, let's toss this one into the mix as well:

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=9312

 

Both threads contain a lot of rants fuelled by frustration. People vent, then they move on - and it's really no different when it comes to role-play. I'm not going to lose any sleep over someone playing their full-blooded Garlean as an experienced mage but I'll certainly raise an eyebrow, offer some criticism and maybe make a playful jest or two at their expense.

 

Just like I'd expect people to criticise my character if I decided to play him in a way that directly contradicted the lore. Also bear in mind I'm not referring to genuine mistakes here, but rather the willing and continued defiance of established lore. 

 

If it's any consolation I often poke fun at myself at my own expense too. It's just how I am and my sense of humour is very British. A lot of us are like that - and if people do something bizarre we tend to laugh, criticise and then move on.

 

I really can't stress how important I think that is in a community like this. You've got people from all sorts of different backgrounds, expecting them all to operate and think in the same way is both inefficient and rather concerning.

 

I read back through this thread a bit and saw that basically half this thread was already saying all the same points I made and 14 pages later, people are still not in agreement.

 

I think this is a great example of how all the critique in the world isn't really going to change the mind of someone who isn't asking, wanting, or planning to use critique someone gives them. People are going to stick to their guns unless they make the decision for themselves that they are receptive to changing. They're going to do their thing. You are going to do yours.

 

At that point it's not critique - it's just venting like you mentioned. If you want to vent about it, that's fine! People vent all the time about things -- but at least accept that venting is all that folks are really doing at that point instead of trying to paint it as 'constructive critique' that is going to help someone build a better character or criticism that has any other purpose other than to shame someone for not RPing as you want them to. (Or in the case of the original thread that spawned this one - out right telling people they are RPing something wrong because it's not what they personally wanted and putting "You're doing it wrong" in the title of their thread Whoops! I got confused about this and thought all that came from some other miqote thread I missed. Apologies. ) It has no other purpose other than to make someone feel bad that they're not RPing a certain way.

 

You may feel it's okay or necessary to criticise someone for RPing something wacky that doesn't really suit the lore in FFXIV - but I don't. This is just something we're going to have to agree to disagree on. I personally would rather spend the time I would have wasted criticising someone's RP actually roleplaying with people whose RP I DO enjoy and find engaging/adherent to the lore.

[Dis]

This is such a touchy topic for so many reasons.  Glioca isn't your typical Elezen, because Glioca isn't really from Eorzea (complicated story), but she considers the world her home, however she won't change her entire being to conform to a race when she finds those types of limitations usually hold her back from interactions with what could possibly be very good people whose race just doesn't line up with her own for whatever reason.  

 

She's very open-minded, and accepting of other races (except Miqo'te, of which she has distinct dislike of, due to things that have happened in her semi-recent past), and of varied sexualities, identities, and preferences.  But, not all of my characters are so chill.  I do think that people shouldn't always play up to a certain stereotype of a character archetype, because that limits their ability to stretch their creativity, but even those types of characters (ones who hammer right along the lines of the lore) have their place in making a fully fleshed out and expansive world, especially in terms of a setting where personal interaction is a huge part of establishing a character.

[Dravus]

I think some people are under the false impression that other people are directly dictating what their fellow role-players are able to do. Nobody can force anybody else to do anything and that's certainly not what's happening here.

 

Let's look at this thread as an example of what I'm getting at:

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=9690

 

Or if that's not enough, let's toss this one into the mix as well:

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=9312

 

Both threads contain a lot of rants fuelled by frustration. People vent, then they move on - and it's really no different when it comes to role-play. I'm not going to lose any sleep over someone playing their full-blooded Garlean as an experienced mage but I'll certainly raise an eyebrow, offer some criticism and maybe make a playful jest or two at their expense.

 

Just like I'd expect people to criticise my character if I decided to play him in a way that directly contradicted the lore. Also bear in mind I'm not referring to genuine mistakes here, but rather the willing and continued defiance of established lore. 

 

If it's any consolation I often poke fun at myself at my own expense too. It's just how I am and my sense of humour is very British. A lot of us are like that - and if people do something bizarre we tend to laugh, criticise and then move on.

 

I really can't stress how important I think that is in a community like this. You've got people from all sorts of different backgrounds, expecting them all to operate and think in the same way is both inefficient and rather concerning.

 

I read back through this thread a bit and saw that basically half this thread was already saying all the same points I made and 14 pages later, people are still not in agreement.

 

I think this is a great example of how all the critique in the world isn't really going to change the mind of someone who isn't asking, wanting, or planning to use critique someone gives them.  People are going to stick to their guns unless they make the decision for themselves that they are receptive to changing.  They're going to do their thing.  You are going to do yours.  

 

At that point it's not critique - it's just venting like you mentioned.  If you want to vent about it, that's fine!  People vent all the time about things -- but at least accept that venting is all that folks are really doing at that point instead of trying to paint it as 'constructive critique' that is going to help someone build a better character or criticism that has any other purpose other than to shame someone for not RPing as you want them to.  (Or in the case of the original thread that spawned this one - out right telling people they are RPing something wrong because it's not what they personally wanted and putting "You're doing it wrong" in the title of their thread.)  It has no other purpose other than to make someone feel bad that they're not RPing a certain way.

 

You may feel it's okay or necessary to criticise someone for RPing something wacky that doesn't really suit the lore in FFXIV - but I don't. This is just something we're going to have to agree to disagree on.  I personally would rather spend the time I would have wasted criticising someone's RP actually roleplaying with people whose RP I DO enjoy and find engaging/adherent to the lore.

 

Well, it's like I said - I enjoy engaging in debate! If people want to agree to disagree, that's perfectly fine. I just think it should be a two way street - just as nobody can force someone else to role-play in a specific way I don't believe anybody should force someone to remain silent on matters that may concern them.

 

I also don't believe that questionable behaviour should be free of criticism. If I see a guy running naked down the street (putting aside the legal issues involved) I'll laugh at their expense and roll my eyes. I'm sure most people would - and that's pretty much what happens when questionable characters are encountered. Some people might take it a step further and offer criticism in an attempt to reason with them. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

 

On that note, it doesn't take a lot of time to write up a post either. I'm not starved for role-play and I don't believe that the people taking the time to write up posts are missing out on role-play as a result. I frequently multitask when I role-play and it doesn't impact on my speed of posting since I'm just wired to be able to do many things at the same time.

[Knight Kat]

 

Ears: I do not emote my ears at all times. Sometimes I forget, others times I feel it isn't required. We have hominid features which are expressive enough on their own. Ears do however add extra flavour and so I always use them when an emotion is particularly strong. Often an ear will flicker or tick when his name or something interesting sounds within earshot.

 

Tail: Mikh'a is careful of his tail when sitting. He uses it more when he is physically engaged (leaping, sparring etc, they are part of the balance thing for the race, or so I believe). Again with strong emotions it might bristle or fall still rather than maintain an absent swish.

 

Both together: When entirely at ease, these things happen more frequently. Another thing I try to remember is that everyone has a tell. Minor body movements or ticks that others who know them would spot, and so there times when Mikh'a will appear outwardly calm for example, though his tail will fall flat or bristle ever so slightly.

 

Tribal culture: Mikh'a had a tribal upbringing. To his people, sexuality is irrelevant so long as babies are being born and so often times preferences are pushed aside during mating season (I consider this not as when females are -on heat- but instead a window that would allow babies to be born when food is plenty in the wild, since they are nomadic). As such, it's a very business-like concept for them. Mikh'a has grown from this mentality to one that is not -anything goes, i like my sex- but instead to -I am able to maintain many meaningful connections- and fails to understand the concept of monogamy.

 

TL;DR

 

Racial lore, sexual preference and such other concepts do not define my character, though I have at least considered the impact that these have on my character. We may not conform to societal norms, though they will have had some measure of influence, be it positive or negative.

 

IMHO this is a very good way to go about ears/tail emotes, and pretty much exactly how I go about it with my character.

 

That is also a good concept for the tribal culture. The lore talks about how traditional Miqo'te breed, but doesn't touch on the sexuality aspect of it. I see nothing that dictates what Miqo'te are normally attracted to in a partner; only that when it comes time to make the next generation, there are few males and many females. From there, we can only hypothesize about their average sexuality.

 

With my character, very few would even see much about her sexuality. She doesn't advertise it, nor does she talk about it unless it is with close friends who ask. She's a hunter, a scout, a fighter, a leader. She is very busy, and doesn't have much time for anything else.

[Baja]

I can't imagine Balmung would be as enjoyable and interesting if every Miqo'te had a tribal upbringing and lifestyle. My main is intended to be bred from a Seeker and a Midlander. Even then, I would not call Lyrik a "cosplaying hyur". Her ears and tail are brought into her expressions when needed.

 

I enjoy the challenge of Lyrik being reared in an urban setting by a Hyur... and yet she is still part Miqo'te and struggles to understand what that means. Why some instincts, mannerisms and aspects of her are simply different. Aside from physically (which is the least of racial differences IMHO), different hearing. Different instincts on occasion. I am fortunate she's ended up under the wing of a very tribal Miqo'te and is currently learning to hunt out in the desert. Will Lyrik become more traditional? Will she stay very "hyur-like"? Either way she is still Miqo'te. Or at least partially. I'm looking forward to her progression. I expect an RP server to have variety and original ideas.

 

Lastly on the subject of moral conflict regarding traditional breeding and the frequent "Nuhn" issues... well, it is what it is. Lyrik knows several Nuhn and most of them are serious males with their concern lying in providing for the females and leadership. Luckily for overly affectionate Lyrik, they seem to naturally tolerate the will of the females they consider to be under their care. I look forward to seeing a Nuhn strutting about like he's god's gift to all cats. There are males of all races attempting to lay with multiple women. All sorts of women who have the same ambitions. No Miqo'te is bound to "service" any Nuhn simply because of her race. I have no issues with anyone's sexual decisions. I rather enjoy the interesting female empowerment in these cat like individuals. Perhaps it's my animal inclined education talking but I really find it interecting even if I don't partake.

[allgivenover]

A comment about rarely seeing ears, tails, and scent in RP exactly means that I expect people to use it ALL THE TIME or they're not doing Miqo'te RP right. /s

 

Seriously this misconception about my meaning had me double checking my posts to make sure I didn't completely mess up my phrasing.

 

This is what I mean:

 

Although Rakka'li's face sat placid as a frozen lake, the sharp backward tilt of his ears made it clear how furious he was. Several seconds passed before his ears relaxed and he managed a slow, respectful nod.

 

Stuff like this. I don't mean emoting all the time that a Miqo'te's tail moved, or that their ears are well, cat ears, I'm on about how these tools of expression go severely underused in general.

[Zyrusticae]

That is that FFXIV "races" aren't really races' date=' they are different species.[/quote']

*ahem*

 

I am going to be pedantic here and explain that, no, they are not separate species at all. They are, in fact, all the same species of Man, all being capable of crossbreeding (and those crossbreeds capable of breeding themselves). By the standard definition of 'species' that alone disqualifies them from being considered separate.

 

That being said, their physiological differences are certainly far larger than standard (real-world) human races, so that is something that should be taken into account. But it's not a matter of entirely separate species and all that entails - though you could argue that cultural and psychological differences are large enough to eclipse that.

[Warren Castille]

A comment about rarely seeing ears, tails, and scent in RP exactly means that I expect people to use it ALL THE TIME or they're not doing Miqo'te RP right. /s

 

Seriously this misconception about my meaning had me double checking my posts to make sure I didn't completely mess up my phrasing.

 

This is what I mean:

 

Although Rakka'li's face sat placid as a frozen lake, the sharp backward tilt of his ears made it clear how furious he was. Several seconds passed before his ears relaxed and he managed a slow, respectful nod.

 

Stuff like this. I don't mean emoting all the time that a Miqo'te's tail moved, or that their ears are well, cat ears, I'm on about how these tools of expression go severely underused in general.

 

Added to the OP to clarify.

[Bopdoot]

With all the talk about sexuality and the fact that evvvvvvreryones doin' it.... What is the form of contraception in Eorzea?  Do you rub aether on your dingledoos?  Are there condoms?  And as an aside, if you're rping that you are impregnated by aether cuz "u don't need no man!" I hope you just give birth to a crystal that talks.  Hey, go hard or go home! 

 

Lol this isn't intended to rustle any jimmies. I'm just in a silly mood. However, I am actually curious about the use of conception in the setting..not that Amelia will need it or anything...>.> she's going to be pure forever.

[Gegenji]

I hope you just give birth to a crystal that talks.

 

So... so I could finally fulfill my dream of playing a Shardmind outside DnD?

 

[Warren Castille]

With all the talk about sexuality and the fact that evvvvvvreryones doin' it.... What is the form of contraception in Eorzea?  Do you rub aether on your dingledoos?  Are there condoms?  And as an aside, if you're rping that you are impregnated by aether cuz "u don't need no man!" I hope you just give birth to a crystal that talks.  Hey, go hard or go home! 

 

Lol this isn't intended to rustle any jimmies. I'm just in a silly mood. However, I am actually curious about the use of conception in the setting..not that Amelia will need it or anything...>.> she's going to be pure forever.

 

There was a thread about this before. Generally speaking, the consensus weighed in that contraceptives have existed on Earth for a long time, so it's not unreasonable that they exist in Eorzea too.

[SessionZero]

With all the talk about sexuality and the fact that evvvvvvreryones doin' it.... What is the form of contraception in Eorzea?  Do you rub aether on your dingledoos?  Are there condoms?  And as an aside, if you're rping that you are impregnated by aether cuz "u don't need no man!" I hope you just give birth to a crystal that talks.  Hey, go hard or go home! 

 

Lol this isn't intended to rustle any jimmies. I'm just in a silly mood. However, I am actually curious about the use of conception in the setting..not that Amelia will need it or anything...>.> she's going to be pure forever.

 

Given that we have no specific lore on this and we'll only see some if someone at SE is bored/going to be fired anyway, I'd say go nuts (lol) with whatever your little heart desires to keep babby-making at bay with.

[Berrod Armstrong]

Do you rub aether on your dingledoos?

Confirmed for best laugh of the week

[Chris Ganale]

My lady and I have always played it that there's alchemical potion contraceptives if it were to come up seriously, but for the most part we abide by the "don't want X pairing to have behbehs yet"

[Zyrusticae]

[...] for the most part we abide by the "don't want X pairing to have behbehs yet"

If only RL were so convenient.

[Chris Ganale]

Indeed.

[Zhavi]

That is that FFXIV "races" aren't really races' date=' they are different species.[/quote']

*ahem*

 

I am going to be pedantic here and explain that, no, they are not separate species at all. They are, in fact, all the same species of Man, all being capable of crossbreeding (and those crossbreeds capable of breeding themselves). By the standard definition of 'species' that alone disqualifies them from being considered separate.

 

 

Begging your pardon, but do you have a source for that? I'd like to read it. ;P

[Aduu Avagnar]

Best contraceptive? sleep outside of your species. Babeha are garaunteed to be rare then *sagenod*