Yssen

First the Bomb fight in Pharos Hard, now the Doll bits in the Antitower. They seem to be doubling down on the FF4 bosses. Not that I am complaining, I like it.

Nor did I? I think I said as much just after the quote? I'd never noticed this before so I went digging and found a few instances where this occurs. But, in each of those occurrences, the speaker goes on to use the monkhood and the Fists as interchangeable. Which has me wondering... what is the distinction? The only thing I could really think of was that there was the monkhood, or multiple sects part of the monkhood, but only those who had finished their training and were given the Soulstone were considered Fists of Rhalgr. Thoughts? See, there's that separation again... but now look at this text later from the same quest: The above makes it sound like the monkhood and the Fists of Rhalgr are one in the same. Another example: Here it is again, and then at the end of that same quote, it says "their" as in the monkhood's order is the Fist of Rhalgr. So they're separate but the same? Which leads me to believe in the higher echelons theory. Idk... I see what you are saying about the interchanging nature of the terms, Soussy. Might be a bit of a text tease for the Shadow sect? Although I cannot think of why Widargelt would make the distinct separation with no prior knowledge of them. It is possible he is referring to the Monkhood to include trainees, but he doesn't call his new trainees Monks in the post 60 stuff, does he? It does seem to point to the fact that the monkhood is more than just the fists. We'll probably have to wait until the lvl cap is 70 to find out exactly what that means. Slight edit - I just noticed that the third quote puts a distinction between novices and the monkhood in the area of soul stones. So... yeah, not inclusive of trainees so much.

I uh... stopped playing over a year ago in pvp cause the queue times for me got insane. Then the one time I got a queue I got reamed on when I said I didn't know how to do one of the new types of frontlines? Several of us in one alliance said we didn't know what to do. Go where? Etc. Nothing was said except 'you dumb fuckers costing us the game. why the fuck aren't you doing this shit right.' /shrug I tried and died a bunch of times ; Yeah, they said something a while back about fixing Wolves' Den or there being a whole new one. Though, does Feast have ranked teams already? Not sure what to add to the Den other than rankings. /shrug.

Lancer, yup. Though we run into everything with a class of everything through the course of the game. By way of example of some examples. There are "Duskwight Mercenaries" that are Pugilists, Lancers, and Gladiators. Franz the Fair, a current champion of the Colosseum, is a Midlander Gladiator. There are Dunesfolk Gladiators running around too. The head of the Lancer's Guild is a Midlander. Two of the main NPCs in the Pugilist quest are both Dunesfolk. The main Pugilist trainer/guild leader is Midlander. Highlanders as Pugilists actually do not jump into the Pugilist stuff at all until the MNK quests. There are Rogues of pretty much every stripe seen in the Guild (at least one Elezen and a Roe guards the door). The main antagonist of the Pugilist arc is a Hellsguard Marauder. A Plainsfolk Marauder is a major character in the SCH quest. The main Arcanist (the one that runs everything while the guild leader is doing gods know what) is a Roe, and I believe the guild leader himself is a Keeper. We see several Elezen CNJs, and a Roe CNJ is in the Marauder Quest. Also the signature art and character for BLM is a female Elezen who started as a Gladiator back when Derplander was an Archer, go figure. Also Derplander = Midlander Archer. While an interesting thought experiment, we have ample evidence that there is no real restriction placed on classes and training as classes. The guild's do not forbid anyone, and there is no racial or even city-state stricture on any of the classes (example - while lancer legions were famous in Ala Mhigo, Ishgard and Gridania also has large lancer corps. Lancers were such a prized form of soldier they every city state has them in some capacity). In short, no such thing as "making it work" for all races. No such thing as more appropriate or least appropriate by lore. Yar. Hope this has been helpful.

Reading multiple books at the same time, as is my way. Almost done with my umpteenbillionth re-read of "The Prince." Read it first when I was much young, and I keep re-reading it every few years or so. For funzies. I also just finished reading "The Wolf and The Crown." I have been on a weird Arthurian kick lately. Oddly not sure if I will pick up "The Serpent and the Grail" just yet. /shrug.

Okay THAT makes more sense. Yes,im sorry, i was using Monk to describe an Aether Infused Fighter. Okay. Now I see. This is much more understandable. Didn't say it was a normal, every day occurrence. Just that USING CHAKRA(not opening chakra gates) could be possible outside of the Fist, by another aether infused person/fighter, hm? You are correct on this last part. From what we have seen displayed in CSes and lore bits every martially inclined Job or Class has some method of channeling aether. Opening chakras is is just a means to and end. You could call it fighting resolve, spiritual pressure, or chocolate dodo waves. The methods may differ, but at the stripped down core it is all the same.

So wait..All monks are/were Fists of Rhalgr or taught by them? I recall reading that there are also non-Fist monks even in Ala Mhigo. Are there not others that are similar but not in that group? Monk = Fist. Just another word for them. And no, Garleans wouldn't have Fists, simply from the fact the Garleans /hate/ Twelve, or any God, worship. Fists are build on the foundation of destroying things in the name of... the Destroyer. And the Mad King purged nearly all Monks on top of that. And ruined their temples. Made their knowledge be a near lost thing. Even in the 50-60 Monk quests the two NPCs have issues finding anything to read up about some Monk lore, seeming there is so little left due to the Mad Kings nonsense. Well, Like I was mentioning...Opening chakras, is that a purely a thing only A Fist of Rhalgr was capable of? Could not other fighters find similar paths to opening or even using Chakra, with different fighting techniques? The Monk quests do show off that people can open it without being Fists. However, it only seemed to have happened to the WoL so far. No other NPC has shown off to suddenly unlock their first chakra. The rest are all being trained by Monks, or are Monks already. But I'd highly suggest not going down that route, seeming it is a Fist of Rhalgr thing. They have a whole philosophy surrounding it. Hells, they even have TRADITIONS around it. For example, it used to be a tradition that fully unlocked sect Monks would go duel another fully (and opposite) sect Monk opened to the death in a honourable fight. I... It would be just as odd as saying an Limsa pirate very randomly one day, on his own how, figured out to do Mudras, while it is a thing originating from Othard. @Yssen once more. Temple Purge. Mad King. Monks gone poof. Monks be very rare. Knowledge Lost. Scriptures and scrolls gone. It is a thing only very few know. Ninjas weren't purged by their OWN people before the Garleans came. Save for the Dark Chakra sect which was never purged because they left before it happened. The stuff you have linked and are citing does not seem to take into account any of the post 60 MNK bits.

So wait..All monks are/were Fists of Rhalgr or taught by them? I recall reading that there are also non-Fist monks even in Ala Mhigo. Are there not others that are similar but not in that group? Monk = Fist. Just another word for them. And no, Garleans wouldn't have Fists, simply from the fact the Garleans /hate/ Twelve, or any God, worship. Fists are build on the foundation of destroying things in the name of... the Destroyer. And the Mad King purged nearly all Monks on top of that. And ruined their temples. Made their knowledge be a near lost thing. Even in the 50-60 Monk quests the two NPCs have issues finding anything to read up about some Monk lore, seeming there is so little left due to the Mad Kings nonsense. And Ninjutsu was a sacred secret to be used in the defense of one's village or superior by channeling the will of local elemental spirits. Did not stop the Garleans from snagging it, and adapting it whole cloth for their own uses. They won't have Fists of Rhalgr, no. They will have Fists of the Empire. Fists against heresy. As I said, the Fists of Rhalgr do not have a lock down on spiritual based martial arts, or martial bent spirituality. Ask Ishgard, or the Empire. Nor do they have a lock on channeling aether using the body. It all depends on your definition of Monk. Monk the Job is someone trained in the style and way of the Fists. Monk the concept of a warrior who improves body and spirit in tandem, somewhat more universal. Also, to speak to Josuke's question, Chakra is just another name for Aether. Monk bro and Scientist Bud spell this out specifically in the pre-50 Monk quests.

The Fists of Rhalgr are exclusive to Ala Mhigo, but that does not necessarily mean that being a Monk is exclusive to Ala Mhigo. Monk bro is even teaching people Monk stuff in Revenant's Toll. There is a whole sect of the Fists that had been teaching people outside of Ala Mhigo before that. The Fists are simply the only school we know to have been wide spread and influential. This all depends on your definition of a Monk. The Fists of Rhalgr are the only school we know of, but they don't necessarily have a lock on the idea of aether wielding martial arts or martial bent spirituality. Not a huge leap of logic to assume the Garleans have their own Monk school now, they snagged their own Ninjee types after all. They have certainly been occupying Ala Mhigo long enough. Certainly possible to generate a different school of Monk-ness to suit the purposes of the story you are try to tell. I would advise against anything large, grand, or well known though. Smaller, clannish based stuff can serve just as well.

Sliding away from the more snide definitions... Dark RP - I think people usually mean for this to describe plots and elements that one would find in the Dark Fantasy genre. Elric, The Black Company, Dragon Age, Berserk, stuff like that. Expect a bit of forefront of violence. Expect moral shades of grey. Expect protagonists rather than heroes. This can get tied up in cliche as much as anything, most typically it gets wrapped in a "gothy" package, but it is a bit of a misrepresentation of the style. While gothy elements can exist, there are plenty of places to go without everyone being dressed in black. A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones is a prime example of Dark Fantasy. Oh yeah, last defining feature, expect bad guys to possibly win. Mature RP - I tend to think of this tag dealing with more mature subject matter. Sex and sexuality are certainly there, but the net also catches things like racism, class issues, and religion. The general intent is to approach and explore said issues and not shy away from the more controversial bits. Each subject handled with maturity and open minds. This gets a bit strange because this is really more of a subject matter tag than a genre tag. So there is a lot of bleed over between the two. So, to me, one is a genre tag the other is a subject tag. Wheee! Hope this has been helpful, yar.

I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as Twi'lek, is in fact, Nautolan, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, ocoto-fucking-shits. Twi'lek is not an alien species unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning Galactic Empire system made useful by the Emperor, Imperial Academy indoctrination and vital sexual components comprising a full government as defined by Sheev Palpatine. Many rebel organizations run a modified version of the Galactic Imperial system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of alien which is widely used today is often called “Twi'lek”, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically a race of sex slaves, developed by the Hutts. There really are Twi'leks, and these people own them, but it is just a part of the fetish they have. wtf did I just read. Part of the reason the Star Wars expanded universe got de-canon cannoned.

Yeah well, and they could have designed the dragoons in Heavensward to be inaccessible for players lore-wise, written clearly in red ink everywhere, and you would have been the one to eat crows. It's a gamble really. Nice it paid of for you of course, but I have had to deal with that kind of things so many times on RP and MMOs in general that when it sadly turns the other way around, characters often tend to get binned, or retconed heavily... I actually, do not RP as a DRG. This is merely and example of why getting too dogmatic with what is "lore breaking" tends to be a bit of a silly practice. Lore drawn from an MMO or any sort of ongoing content is always mutable. Always. We are not the creators, and we do not know everything. Like so much John Snow, we know nothing. At least, we know nothing that does not flow from the Devs and creators themselves, and that is okay. Everything else we make an educated guess while combing over the "text" for clues. This is also okay. It would be slightly understating things to say that those that predicted the world of many DRGs jumping here and there and everywhere (GUMMIBEARS!) just had just had it "work out" for them. It was not fully a gamble, there were clues comma lots that this was the case. Still, you are correct that nothing was fully confirmed until the Heavensward trailer (MOAR GUMMNIBEARS!). Buuuuuut... this is not the point. The point is that I and others, could have absolutely been wrong. Absolutely possible, but when all these "Can we RP DRGs?" discussions were happening in the way back time there were people that chose to speculate (with evidence) on how it could be possible. Get dogmatic about a something, and you close your mind. Close your mind based around something is mutable, shifting, and wibbly-wobbly sets you up for a fall more often than not (and absolutely miss out on the fun stuff of the possible). The focus should always be on a concept can work based on the lore we currently know, not explaining 90 different reasons that a thing is not. Yar.

Soussny has posted up spiffy lore things to comb through, it is quite comprehensive and spiffy. As to how lore breaking, really up to each individual's personal opinion. I would add the caveat that the lore we have is fluid and mutable. What is "super lorebreaking" now, could easily shift as new stuff lore bits flow from the Devs or game itself. By way of example (and my personal favorite example), it was "super lorebreaking" to most to RP an actual Dragoon. 90% of the people that said that started eating crow after Heavensward. Delicious delicious crow. The lore changes, it is a thing. We all deal with it in our own way. That said here are some things to think on in the form of a few bullet points. Yay! Bullet points! 1. While Kojifox himself has said there is an alternate method to snagging White Magic other than going through the Elementals, we know little of it other than "it is nefarious." It is uncharted/undefined territory, and the method exists as pure speculation and theory craft at this point. 2. White Magic is a Forbidden/Lost/Weird to have art. There is no getting around that, no matter how your character may have it. Keep in mind that this will not only affect how other player interact with you when your character flips the Prestige and tosses out a "Holy" or "Assize" or "Regen." You should also how the World/NPCs will react. It opens up a big can of plot worms. Not that plot worms are bad. Plot worms are awesome, they make the story happen. A few examples: Other casters might want to chase you down to learn how you got it, so they can get it for themselves. Fanatical Gridanians may want to stone you to death and/or leave you in the cornfields to appease the horrific seven year old children that rule over them like so much Twilight Zone episode. Depending on method, your "woodsin" might be through the roof. This may lead to giant, walking trees trying to chase you down while you are in the Shroud. These are just examples to help you with the plot worms that lead to good story. 3. If you decide your character is a WHM, keep the "Assassin Example" in your brain. The "Assassin Example" is basically this - In general, no assassin is going to say "HEY! I'M AN ASSASSIN!" to a room full of strangers. This example applies to many things that can be RPed and serves as a simple reminder that exactly 0% of the population is going to have any idea what you are RPing, unless your character tells them ICly. If your character is doing that, consider the "Why are they doing that?" factor. You have weird stuff, most characters with weird stuff keep it secret and keep it safe. This is also an elegant solution to some of the RPers out there who may state "if you are RPing a WHM, I am totally not RPing with you!" What they don't know, won't wreck day. Unless they Meta, but if they Meta screw 'em. 4. Does your character have to walk out into the world on day 1 as a WHM? What about day 30 or 40? The story hook of walking the path to wielding White Magic can be just as awesome as already running around with it. It starts with learning to wield magic and study and fun stuff. It can also lead to a pretty neato plot bus for people you drag along for the ride. The possibly delayed gratification solution also has the side benefit of there being a bit of extra time for new details to emerge from the lore. Remember, the only constant with the lore bits is that they are constantly changing. By the time your character takes the steps on the path to wielding that delicious delicious Succor, we might have learned that being a WHM is about as "super lore breaking" as being a Dragoon. Or a Scholar. Or a Warrior. Or a Monk. Then again, it is also possible that does not happen. No one really knows, BUT either way you have built a good story foundation as you ply your character in the direction you wish. Hope this was helpful. Yar. ^ ^

Welcome welcomes!~ Hope to see you in game. ^ ^

Welcome welcomes

I think it's important to remember that what is fun for you isn't necessarily fun for everyone else. And since we, individually, don't have any way of knowing what is "fun" for another person, we tend to answer from the perspective of what we consider to be fun. I do not personally consider ignoring lore to be "fun." Lore is an important part of what I enjoy about a setting. A lack of lore actually turns me off of a setting, and makes it much harder for me to RP within such a setting. Ignoring lore when it's there just seems silly - why even play if you don't want to play in the world that you're playing in? What's more, how is it a "kindness" to fail to let someone know, "You can play whatever you want, but this, this, and this are going to cause you problems"? If I know that the water is blistering hot and is going to burn you, and you ask me, "Hey, is the water hot," and I fail to tell you for fear of hurting your feelings, is that really kindness? Because it's not in my book. That, right there, is cruel. Throwing someone into a shark tank without telling them ahead of time, "Hey, there are sharks in there" when they think it's empty of anything but water is pretty freaking cruel in my book. (Most especially if they asked me ahead of time, "Are there sharks in that tank?") I have yet to see anyone post anything abusive or demeaning towards anyone showing up with really off-the-wall concepts or ideas, even when those concepts are breaking the in-game lore three ways from Sunday. If anything, people almost trip over themselves to try to be as kind as possible when they point out to Suzy that, well, that's an interesting idea, but you should be aware that x, y, and z are established in the lore, and that she might want to take that into account because it will cause problems for her down the road. Again, knowing that a blind person is about to step out on a busy interstate and failing to warn them of what they are doing is not kindness. At all. It is not out of meanness or a desire to hurt anyone that people who enjoy lore offer that lore to players asking questions about concepts or theories they have. It is out of kindness. I would not want to throw myself into RP, thinking I had a good grasp of what I was playing, only to find out after the fact that I was making a fool of myself and people were laughing at me behind my back. And worse, that people knew that what I was preparing to do would make a fool of me, but they never said anything because they thought it might hurt my feelings. Well, my feelings certainly are hurt now! It is out of that specific worry that I let people know when they're running roughshod over the lore - because I would never, ever want someone to be in that situation because it fucking sucks. If someone asks a question, I'm going to respond sincerely because I care more about people rolling into RP and feeling like a fool later than I care about people on the internet thinking I'm just a huge mean person because I told someone, "Hey, that's not how it works exactly, but here are some ways you can play with that." With all due respect, I think you have latched onto one single concept when I laid out several as a whole. I did advocate not responding sincerely. I suggested taking a few thing into account and reflection before passing judgement on a particular idea and framing things constructively. I did not say "don't hurt people's feelings." I said "treat others as you wish to be treated." There is a very significant difference between those two concepts. I also laid out that everyone has a different way of interpreting the lore we currently have. While we often frame our responses based on our own individual interpretation of lore, we do not often make clear that that is what we are doing. We put forward the illusion of authority over the lore when we have none. I am not advocating complete non-compliance with the lore. I am advocating keep an open mind about what could be possible. Leave yourself some room to be wrong. A prime example is DRG lore. We went from "there is only one Dragoon" to "Well there are several, but they are just random knights, only the Azure Dragoons does the jumps" to "Okay, they are not just random knights. They all do the jumps and wear the armor and have Gae Bolgs, but they are all Elezen and Hyur. No cat people or lalafell" to "Well crap. That is a miqo'te DRG, and that one is a Lalafell." At each reveal of new information, things that went contrary to what we had seen became "lorebreaking" and "off the wall" concepts. People were bad RPers for even thinking of doing that. No room was made to simply say "we don't know, this is what we think, but we could be wrong" resulting in an endless fit of back pedal by the most vocal. All of those points were taken as absolute fact. No open mind was kept and threads on this touchy subject became rife with venom as an echo chamber shouted "YER DOING IT WRONG!" This is by no means the only example, but it is a big one. In short. It is not that there are no boundaries that we must operate within. It is that we must leave room with where those boundaries are and keep more of an open mind. Less trouble exists when we do this. Less trouble exists when we treat others as we wish to be treated. There are numerous threads here, all locked for getting out of hand now because these exact things did not happen. I suppose you could argue that doing such was "fun" for someone, but what image are we trying to put forward collectively? Are we willing to be helpful and trying to make sure that someone is coming up with an interesting story? Are we more interested in shooting things down left and right based on a belief that we could very well be eating crow over later? Are we willing to think critically and offer reasonable criticism? Are we just going to band wagon because we happen to like Bob more than we like Jim? All of those are things we have seen done, or done ourselves. I advocate taking a step back and figuring out which of those things we wish to be seen doing, not only as individuals but as a group. Sidenote - It is all well and good to say we have not seen people be abusive or demeaning toward concepts, but this is false. There are a dozen or so locked threads that were locked because people got abusive and demeaning toward touchy concepts/subjects. They are there, monuments to how fervently awful some of us can be. Monuments to a few other issues too, but this isn't the time and place for that. Yet. Saying that it did not happen doesn't make it go away. Our solution should be to stare at it in all it's terrible, horrific glory and in doing so find resolve that we can do better than that. We can change the equation and see that it does not happen again.

Disagree. In almost every single thread about contentious rp subjects there is a small chorus of people asserting that the roleplay being discussed is wrong, often going as far as ignoring established lore to do it. Expressions of tolerance for other people roleplaying "wrong" are typically secondary to informing people their RP is "wrong". Also, there isn't a single person on this site I'd consider a "leader". "Loud" would be more accurate. ^ This. All of this. One can just go over every single post about WHM and DRG to see some of what I believe the OP is trying to point out, to point out just a couple dozen specific examples. Usually it is from the same people saying the same stuff every single time. Each of these posts are, in short, echo chambers of loudly shouted personal preference coupled with the threat of "conform this or we will exclude you." It should be pointed out that this is the exact opposite of what what people are saying they prefer to see in this very thread. This is part of the problem, no one willing to say/recognize that such are behaviors that are a problem. For some, actual helpfulness and reasonable discussion fall absolutely fall by the wayside in favor of loud shouting of the same opinions, outright insults, and promises censure for refusal to conform. This is another point Momo brings up, and it is fairly valid. So is pointing out that this is not the way things were in the past. Yes, there were disagreements and arguments. There was not a whole sale attitude of "we will exclude you if you do not conform." In fact, as others have pointed out, that sort of thing was actively discouraged. It is absolutely true that things just change, but that does not mean that things change for the better. In my opinion, they have not. We seem to have gone from a community of creatives discussing and offering input on one another's ideas to an echo chamber of loudly shouting assholes saying "conform to what we or we just won't include you." While this is not true of everyone on this forum, it is true that one walks away with that impression with a larger number of the posts here. This is not a positive change, but the OP brings up the point that there can be reflection on where this place has been and where we wish it to go. What has changed once, can change again. For all of the commentary on the structure of the original post, we all do seem to be able to get was Momo was going for, and we should reflect on what was said. While there are bits and bobs of what was said that I do not necessarily agree with, all of it is worth thinking about. More than a little of it is true, even if accepting that is a bit of a hard pill to swallow. The question then becomes what are you supposed to do when people say "Does this character concept work?" are you... not supposed to answer? I always see a bunch of people come in and go "You can play whatever you want =D" but that isn't helpful - obviously the person asked for imput if they wanted to play whatever they wanted they wouldn't have made the thread (Unless they were looking for an echo chamber of how great their character is, but that's another subject). I know in the past I've offered advice about character concepts and said I didn't personally jive with some of them, but always added "But you can play whatever you want" at the end so they know it's just my opinion. Should I not offer that kind of advice? Is that seen as pushing my own agenda? Before diving into that, I want to reiterate that by no means am I talking about everyone, or quite possibly even most people. I have seen a lot of reasonable responses and discussion happen on even touchy subjects. I have also seen those responses get absolutely drowned out by a loud and vocal minority. Nature of the beast? Maybe, or maybe something should have been done the 3rd, 4th or even 11th time an individual spewed venom at someone trying to figure out how to RP a DRG (or touchy subject x,y, or z). That said, here we go. It is a multi-faceted issue. There is not really a simple answer at all. There are some steps than can be taken when offering out advice and what not that can possibly improve things. My brain boggles at the idea that we now actively warn people "but most won't play with you if you do that" when it comes to touchy subject x,y, or z. That very warning, and the acceptance of that very attitude isn't constructive, it is stifling. How did we even get here? Particularly, how did we get here as a group of people that keep wishing to advovate "we don't want a community that tells us what we can and cannot do in our RP. I will grant that people have different tastes and expectations when it comes to RP. I am also not advocating blind acceptance of every possible concept someone could come up with, but we need to accept that when it comes to issues of lore bendy or breaky zero of us speak with any kind of authority. We can all only speak from a view of personal interpretation, and we can all be wrong. All we have is best guess, and very often we do not see anyone own up to that before, during, or after new details come out (there is only one Dragoon, anyone?). We should also remember that there are actual people on the other side of the screen. Too many people forget this. Often. There is a line between constructive criticism and idea bashing that gets crossed a lot. Take a step back, read what you are putting out there, and think about how you would really feel if someone said it to you. Not just about whatever subject or topic is being discussed, but frame it as someone disagreeing with an idea you are really wanting to execute. This leads me directly to the next thing. We should also check ourselves and reflect on our own creations and where we may have taken license. Another thing my brain has boggled at is people coming down on touchy subject x,y, or z like a hammer shouting "LORE BREAKING!," while portaying or playing a thing that does not exist with in XIV's world at all (sometimes not even with basis in FF at all). A particular quote by Hawthorne comes to mind here. We have all taken some amount of liberty or license with something we are RPing right now and we should reflect on why we have done that. We should thing about why another person might be doing that with their idea. All of that before leveling any kind of judgement on someone's idea, and all of that in the name of keeping an open mind. We need to remember that we are all RPing to have fun. To take our creations and trot them around in the game, and interact with other people doing the same. We all want a positive experience as a result of the time and effort we put into RP, and with that in mind we need to remember that that is all someone else we come across is looking for too. You get exactly what you put out into the world, and we should treat others as we would want them to treat us.

Disagree. In almost every single thread about contentious rp subjects there is a small chorus of people asserting that the roleplay being discussed is wrong, often going as far as ignoring established lore to do it. Expressions of tolerance for other people roleplaying "wrong" are typically secondary to informing people their RP is "wrong". Also, there isn't a single person on this site I'd consider a "leader". "Loud" would be more accurate. ^ This. All of this. One can just go over every single post about WHM and DRG to see some of what I believe the OP is trying to point out, to point out just a couple dozen specific examples. Usually it is from the same people saying the same stuff every single time. Each of these posts are, in short, echo chambers of loudly shouted personal preference coupled with the threat of "conform this or we will exclude you." It should be pointed out that this is the exact opposite of what what people are saying they prefer to see in this very thread. This is part of the problem, no one willing to say/recognize that such are behaviors that are a problem. For some, actual helpfulness and reasonable discussion fall absolutely fall by the wayside in favor of loud shouting of the same opinions, outright insults, and promises censure for refusal to conform. This is another point Momo brings up, and it is fairly valid. So is pointing out that this is not the way things were in the past. Yes, there were disagreements and arguments. There was not a whole sale attitude of "we will exclude you if you do not conform." In fact, as others have pointed out, that sort of thing was actively discouraged. It is absolutely true that things just change, but that does not mean that things change for the better. In my opinion, they have not. We seem to have gone from a community of creatives discussing and offering input on one another's ideas to an echo chamber of loudly shouting assholes saying "conform to what we or we just won't include you." While this is not true of everyone on this forum, it is true that one walks away with that impression with a larger number of the posts here. This is not a positive change, but the OP brings up the point that there can be reflection on where this place has been and where we wish it to go. What has changed once, can change again. For all of the commentary on the structure of the original post, we all do seem to be able to get was Momo was going for, and we should reflect on what was said. While there are bits and bobs of what was said that I do not necessarily agree with, all of it is worth thinking about. More than a little of it is true, even if accepting that is a bit of a hard pill to swallow.

I recall quite a few instances where one GM claimed it was against the TOS, and another GM claimed it was not. Sorry, but Kage is right. I am not saying it was not unclear. I am saying that it always was not allowed. There is a difference. For a very long time we let artists charge gil for their commissions on this site, until that was made clear as an RMT activity. This situation is similar. It being clear now does not mean they arbitrarily decided it was against the ToS recently. It just means they have been clearer about it now.

That doesn't mean that other people did not ask/and or become aware of it and bring it to others attention before now. I just means people wanted/needed more proof. Which as I have said, is fine. It is more clear now than it was then. Spiffy keen. However, claiming that it was suddenly made against the ToS now is a slightly specious reasoning. It always was, recent events have simply drawn that fact into sharp relief. That is all I am saying.

Uh, as far as I know this has only been made clear in the weeks since Christmas. I think it was clear before. It is an issue that has come up elsewhere before, and even here on the RPC months ago. People just had different burdens of proof, which is fine, to each their own. There have been warnings and supposed bannings issued out over selling housing plots pretty much since housing came out. I will grant that it was not scale we are seeing now, but as I said the scale in which something is being enforced has zero bearing as to whether an action is or is not legal. Yar.

To be fair Parsers are against the ToS, and if they catch using one, kicking a player out of a static based on one, or (and this one is a kicker) parsing someone who does not want to be parsed you will get smacked with a disciplinary action (possibly banning) for it. The caveat here is getting caught and/or reported. Just because they do not have teams of people staring at the data that comes in from the game and jumping on people who use parsers does indicate a failure on the part of the GMs. Think of it like speeding. Most everyone is guilty of speeding in their car at one time or another. Lots of people get away with it. Lots of people getting away with it is not a a valid defense to avoid the consequences of getting caught. Neither is the argument "this is a stupid rule." When the Devs, Yoshi-P, or whoever asks nicely "please don't do that" is is a courtesy, not an invitation to do exactly what they asked you not to do. Even the way SE goes after RMT is probably a different approach than we would like. Like more than a few MMOs they go after the source of the RMT more fervently than they chase after the people paying money for gil. Not that they don't, mind you. More than a few people (myself included) were asked to explain the giant amounts of gil they had that were carried over from 1.0 (holy crap hi-lvl leve gil back in 1.0) when the game original re-launched. Heck, I've loaned people gil and been locked out of my account (never for more than a few minutes after discovering this, mind you) for "my own protection." The point is, they are more interested in taking measures and disciplinary action against the actual gatherers and sellers of gil, rather than the people that buy it. The five friends a day thing does not hurt us as players nearly as much as it hurts the RMTs. The rules are clear, their enforcement just does not seem to be up to people's standards. We've known that selling property for giant amounts of gil was against the ToS for a while. The same with parsers and other junk. Just because giant amounts of people have not been banned for these various practices does not suddenly make them okay and fair game. Yar.

Hmmm. If you are referring to the girl and such, they do not draw directly from themselves because they consider it too dangerous. They feel it is too easy to die drawing directly on themselves, apparently when healing in particular. They feel it is safer to draw on themselves to restore what they have taken from the area around them/elementals. It adds a buffer or something. Maybe the elementals will just not let them die in the process of putting stuff back, and that may have something to do with the whole "the elementals will not allow me to heal this person" thing. It also helps to remember that the Guild is a product of it's nation. Gridania has a lot of random arbitrary rules couched in the excuse of "because the elementals say so!" So does Conjury.

Hmmm. Where to start? Scale seems good. You are correct in that Conjurer's do not draw on the same scale as was done during The War of the Magi. For the most part, no one is really drawing on the same levels of aether as the war. It is also worth noting that part of the problem was giant levels of being drawn on constantly as the war escalated. In terms of scale, think of it being similar to two armies of primals going at each other, or lots of effects being aether fueled on the scale of Lousioux's massive spell to summon The Twelve at the end of 1.0. Constant, really massive aether drawing. Everything was happening on such a massive scale that the flood was needed so that things could balance out again. Individual conjurer's are not drawing in aether on those levels just by casting a cure spell. Further, they are taught to replace the aether they draw on with their own personal stores. Second, while a aether is a limited resource it does replenish itself over time. It seems that it comes back faster in living people than in the land, however. Casters also employ a variety of techniques to replenish their own stores quickly. Can a caster draw on so much that they can harm themselves and or die? Yes, but they do have other methods to regenerate their personal aether that they can employ first. Next, Black Magic primarily draws from the Void. This can harm the land, but in a more indirect sense. The Void being the land of Voidsent and demons and things, it is mostly taboo because of that association. That and the fact that it has very little other purpose than to burninate things really really well. Touching the Void is a no no, mostly because the Void is a big ravenous maw that wants to eat all the aether it can get. Putting a tether to the Void on the regular ole planet attracts Voidsent who pretty much want to do the same thing. Still, it is all a matter of degree and scale. Moderation in all things, and what not. Lastly, there is a paradox because no one school of casting is completely right or completely wrong. They are all just different methods of channeling aether to make stuff happen. Each follower of a particular school thinks there way is the best way for x,y, and z reasons. What they are all really doing is chasing the same thing down a different road. One can argue that their particular method of stick shaking and mumbo jumbo is the best way to make magic happen. That is fine, they are not wrong because that is what works for them. That is what they have been taught. That does not mean that there way is the only way, because clearly other ways work. One giant unknowable truth, many different ways to understand a piece of it. Like... Paradigms in White Wolf's Mage: the Ascension, sorta. I hope this helps a little.

They have yet to tell us, but they will probably do so in the summer again I would guess.