Havoc Snow

If you are convinced that that is the reason why then you are part of the problem, not the solution. Every reason given for going over to Gilgamesh has been either because of our levels, our gil, because many feel anything that can be done has been done on Balmung, and a number of other reasons. I'm not devaluing these opinions, not am I saying they aren't sound, I'm just saying that many people are going to Gilgamesh because they have this feeling they can't belong because we were already here, and the resent us for that. If people could just admit it and stop trying to tip toe around each other we might actually be able to co-exist peacefully, even if this argument or these feelings won't ever go away.

Ultimate this argument is never going to go away so long as two servers and two communities exist in one space. The simple fact that we acknowledge that there are differences between the two servers, that we weigh pros and cons, means that anytime someone even mentions being unsure of which server they want to go to people will immediately jump to proclaim which server they think is better. None of us here can be unbiased, not completely. We can all sit here and grit our teeth and smile and say how much we want Gilgamesh to succeed... but I don't think that's 100% honest. I don't think anyone wants Gilgamesh to fail, but until recently Balmung was the primary home of RP at least for this chunk of the community, and ever person that goes over to Gilgamesh takes away from that once united community and furthers the divide. At the same time many people on Gilgamesh have let slip, even in small ways, that it's not about not wanting to be on our server, it's about not wanting to play with us. I've seen people accuse Balmung of having a pecking order, being elitists, saying stuff like "who wants to play with level 50s?" So the prejudice is definitely there. In short, this argument won't go away because many people on Balmung resent players from pulling away from the community, even if they won't outright say it, and many of the people on Gilgamesh resent players on Balmung for being here first, even if they won't come out and say it. This of course is a generalization, so if it doesn't pertain to you or you disagree with me just assume I wasn't talking about you. I'm just saying what I've seen from both sides.

Hey, go. Great post, great thread. As the fellow who coined that unfortunate term, I should like to clarify what I meant by it; a lot of the communities people are worried about(Reddit, for example) are in truth extremely diverse within themselves. Reddit actually has a subreddit for FF14 rp, which is gradually drawing genuine interest from their own member base. So, when I say, RP for bros, I mean a light, entry level atmosphere that is spirited, good humored, nigh impossible to offend, and welcomes pretty much anybody who wants to participate, even if they type like dis dood and lol. This doesn't mean people have to dumb down their writing, or invite anyone to their character's personal storyline, but it does mean that our public community events need to be really, really public. We need to find ways of bringing these people to them that aren't related to trolling opportunities. Rock's beach party is one such example of a situation in which I think everybody and their brother should be accepted, and tolerated, even if they want to emote spam. If they see us having fun, and laughing trouble off, I mean, really having a good time, trolling included, they're going to see us as ballsy, and they're going to look at roleplayers in a new way. And to be totally honest, I think that's the only way the Gilgamesh community can survive - by having a friendlier, more accessible face than ever before. By appearing the complete opposite of the isolationist stereotype that drives people to troll roleplayers. Maybe a discussion on the motives why people love to troll roleplayers deserves its own thread, as it's going to be the first and most important issue we'll have to tackle on Gilgamesh. I'll think about it. Yeldir... this just isn't going to happen. I'm sorry man, you seem like you have some great intentions, but you're not going to come in and show tolerance and what not and somehow manage to reform the trolls and make them like you. You kind of remind me of one of those overly optimistic types who go into a really bad neighborhood thinking they can change it, reform it, and make it safe for people. Then they find your body in a ditch somewhere a few weeks later. I totally agree that you'll need to ensure that the people going to Gilgamesh are incredibly tolerant and can persevere in the face of trolling, but you're fooling yourself if you think it'll ever stop just because you throw out a few "LOLz" when someone comes in and starts /dancing and casting Blizzard 2 over and over and over again for the next hour right on top of you. For those saying that trolling happens on any server, you're right. But just the same, I can go into any body of water and be attacked by a shark... but I'm much more likely to be attacked by a shark if I cover myself in fish guts, dive into shark infested water, and start flailing around wildly to get their attention. What I'm saying is Balmung WILL have trolls, as will every server, but our server doesn't have numerous communities joining it that have a public distaste for us. More on topic however, I'm going to basically say that if you're unsure of what server you want to join then pretty much just pick whichever one has a cooler name. In a few months the FC and LS groups will have settled in on either server, everyone who is here right now will be level 50 on at least one class, they'll all be doing end game content, and while their might be a noticeable difference in the consistency of RP, the RP itself will most likely be pretty much the same. All of this fuss will have been entirely pointless because both servers will be exactly the same.

I think there is a major misconception that players who are from 1.0 have level 50 characters, when the truth is that most had only one or two classes at 50, and many more still had none. I'm a returning 1.0 player, but I say that lightly because my highest level character was a level 10 Thaumaturge. The beta forums have mainly perpetrated the fear and loathing of 1.0 players, and while there are a lot of antagonistic legacy players on the beta forums they are mostly on servers like Hyperion and Excalibur. Despite Balmung being the 1.0 RP server, it's in no way dominated by 1.0 players. Before Gilgamesh was a thing, Balmung was still the server of choice so many new players jumped on that band wagon and didn't change their mind when options became available, and even after there are still a lot of people who are joining Balmung so the 1.0 players are quickly becoming the minority. As far as RP population goes between the two servers, I can't say for certain but if the number of LS/FC that are on Balmung compared to Gilgamesh is any sign then Balmung has a much larger and diverse population to begin with. I don't know how bad Gilgamesh will be regarding the different communities joining it, but if it's as bad as people seem to fear I honestly expect we'll see people moving to another server, any of the others available not just Balmung, or we'll see server transfers as soon as they become available post launch. I'm not saying everyone will leave, just that if the trolls and such as as bad as people say they will be, retention rates may be another flaw to consider for Gilgamesh.

I'd be interested in joining the LS as an associate of some sort, though my obligation to the Blades would prevent me from completely joining it.

This will most likely be the last thing I say on this thread since it feels like everything else has been said before. In regards to Gilgamesh as a viable server, it will be exceedingly difficult for a number of reasons. Firstly you're joining a server that already contains a large community that are vehemently against RPers, this means that from day 1 you will be facing opposition, trolling, griefing, and any other number of disheartening behavior. These communities know you're going to be there, they've voiced loudly they don't want you there. Gilgamesh may face retention issues, in this thread alone I believe there are one or two folks saying they were reconsidering their decision not to join Balmung, and an entirely different thread spawning urging the community to vote for another server. This could easily lead to many of the Gilgamesh community members leaving for any of the other viable options based on their tastes. Combine these two things together and you have a very volatile situation; while some have shown to be stalwart in their decision to stay on Gilgamesh, others may lack their conviction, especially in the face of open opposition and prejudice. This assumes of course that things are as bad in game as they are on the internet. An example of this can be seen in the signature of Yeldir, though to be fair the beta forums tend to be open hostile in general. Most people will not want to RP in an environment where they have to fear persecution for enjoying their hobby and will simply move on, perhaps even to another game entirely which is even worse than someone moving on to another server. As a message directly to the Gilgamesh players; many of you act defensively towards us Balmung players, many of you act somewhat entitled, or demonstrate the very behaviors you claim to be leaving our server to avoid. I see this as nothing more than a different version of the same arguments we see on the beta servers, the Legacy vs. Non-Legacy arguments that fill the General Discussion boards. The fact is you're here as a courtesy, the RPC was originally the BALMUNG RP Community, advocating RP on that server and until this whole Anti-Legacy schism started up everyone here was one big group who could all play together. Now we're not, and even if we can get along here on the forums, we'll never see each other in game, we'll never talk to each other outside of these forums, it stifles creativity because one member may post a thread asking for advice or feedback and other members may look at it and merely dismiss it because that member isn't part of their server. So in closing let me giving you an example of how many people on Balmung feel, and hopefully you can understand the level of irritation that is showing around the community. Imagine if a friend of yours came to your house and asked if they could crash on your couch. You're both pretty close, so you tell them it's not a problem. At first everything is cool, you're getting along, having fun, doing stuff together but then something changes. Your friend starts eating all your food, using all your toiletries, and in a way they just sort of start taking over your home. The next thing you know your friend starts inviting some of their friends over to hang out as well, and you find you actually get along with some of his friends but you're told you're not aloud to hang out with them, because they're not your friends, they're his. You and your friend could easily share friends, do things together but for whatever reason he adamantly denies you, insisting that his friends remain his friends and nothing else. It leaves you feeling increasingly frustrated because all of these people are in your house, and even though you all could have got along and played together peacefully, your friend insists on keeping you and him segregated. Anyways, that's about all I have to say on this topic. I wish people could get over their fears, intolerance, or whatever so that this small group of people could be whole again and we can all play together, but I don't see that happening unless the powers that be made a stand and no longer supported Gilgamesh directly. That's just my opinion however. I don't think anyone should be forced to join one server or another, but I don't think splitting everyone up like we have been is doing this community any good either.

I don't think we'll see this for very long either. I imagine the event will probably take place around the time of FFXIII: LR's release date, and be gone by the time the game comes out being explained as Lightning returning back to her own world or something. The gear will last about as long as any other vanity item in pretty much any other game. You'll see people dressed up like Snow or Lightning for a few weeks, but once the novelty wears off everyone will go back to just wearing their normal gear.

Considering how adamantly Yoshida declared that they would, I look forward to the video. On a serious know, I won't white knight about this, but I will say that the lore team are perhaps one of the more competent writers I've seen in an MMO in recent history, they're created a very thorough and details mythos without overly referencing pop culture or borrowing from popular fantasy settings (besides the obvious ones taken from the franchise). Sure there is a lot of fan service, but in most cases they do a good job of explaining it. Even Minions will have a canon lore explanation. So with that in mind I have high hopes that there will be a fitting story for this, so long as you keep an open mind. If you come into this with the mentality that it's stupid or will suck, no explanation they give will ever be good enough.

That is where you are 100% completely incorrect. On a realm where NOBODY has max level characters, if someone is having trouble with something? It'll be get some friends of equal level, and band together to conquer the hurdle. On a legacy realm? It'll be "Hold on guys, lemme switch to level 50 PLD lel". Even if a lot of legacy players aren't max level, people will still call max level friends, etc... Sure, this'll happen on non-legacy realms too... Eventually. Not for a little while. I plan to enjoy that while I can. See the problem? Level Sync prevents this.

I think, in part, it has become more of a "competition" between the "underdogs"(gilgimesh) and the "old nobility"(balmung). A lot of the replies I see from gilgimesh supporters gives me the impression that they are fighting for a cause against some kind of regime. They like the idea of fighting against the odds. I see them as the rebels. I think many see themselves that way as well. And I can see the appeal to that. The funny thing is, to me, that the "old guard", as some put it, on balmung are already greatly outnumbered by the new players AS IS. They will likely be -drowned- out by the new players, and if the game does good this will only keep growing. Let's face it, to be blunt, many role-players have a sense of stage and theatrics. Well, you can't really be center stage if you have to fight next to famous "stars"(established role-players on balmung), right? So I think -one of- the ideas is that moving to a new server will allow some of the new blood to have a chance at establishing themselves as the new "stars" for their new server. So, okay, that all makes sense, even if it is a little self-serving, but I get it. Problem is, in a couple months, this won't matter -one bit- because if the game does good (crosses fingers) then there will be more waves of new players. This happens in a lot of new MMOs. The early adapters try it out and if they say the water is warm, then a whole bunch of new people come in. But in those cases, I rarely have seen the new players come to an established RP community (and you know we always have one for nearly every MMO that's come out) and say "Yo, I think we need another server since I'm new and I don't want to play with the established crew." It's almost always "What's the RP server?" They get an answer and that's that. But when we get our new waves of players for XIV, what will we tell them? Right now there is an obvious division or flavor between the two servers, but that won't really be the case in a couple months. And what we will really end up with is a genuine split in the community and nothing more. Not two servers with two different flavors, but two unofficial RP servers. Just think about the confusion that will cause a new player. I'm very much "live and let live." I think in a couple weeks we'll all be playing and this won't really even be a concern of ours. But when things settle and the honeymoon is over and we come back to these forums to talk about our adventures, I can only imagine that this will crop up again and we'll all look at each other and go, "Why did we split our community up again?" Basically all of this, and then this again just for emphasis! Pretty much right now we can say "If you want to join a stable and established community go Balmung, or if you want to join a new community with a fresh start you can join Gilgamesh." In a few months all we can say is "Well you can join Balmung, or if you like the name better you can join Gilgamesh."

Because that's kind of a bad reason for not wanting to be a part of an RP community, besides I promise you it will only take a few weeks before all the Redditors and 4chaners are max level, long before any RPer is. What your basically saying here is you don't want to RP with us because we're higher level than you... Please don't put words in my mouth. I'm excited because of this game at launch because of just that, it's at LAUNCH. I want the experience of playing with a community that will level alongside me, at least for a time. A lot of us want a non-legacy realm for just that reason, trail-blazing. I'd love to RP with you guys on Balmung, and your level has NOTHING to do with that. However, this is first and foremost what? A game. And your level has EVERYTHING to do with me playing with you. I don't want to start on a "brand" new game with a bunch of people already 400 miles ahead of me. I want to build a community. Now please stop bringing up this matter and get back to the topic at hand. Whether or not people want to stick with Gilgamesh as the non-legacy RP realm. I wasn't putting words in your mouth, I was merely paraphrasing your own words. I've bolding the above quote where you specifically stated you didn't want to be on our server because of our levels. Also ARR isn't a new game, it's the Cataclysm expansion from WoW. Complete with enormous world destroying dragon and everything.

Because that's kind of a bad reason for not wanting to be a part of an RP community, besides I promise you it will only take a few weeks before all the Redditors and 4chaners are max level, long before any RPer is. What your basically saying here is you don't want to RP with us because we're higher level than you...

And who is to say that the reddit community wont make alts on Balmung? Just a thought. I for one and sticking with the Gilgamesh community, there is a strong RP community forming there and I very much want to help it strive and grow even more. Even if they make alts, they won't be a regular part of our community like they will be for Gilgamesh.

Assuming the PvP is as good as Yoshida has tried to make it sound I will definitely be taking part. I'm trying to get people into my FC so we can have our own PvP group setup.

I hate to say it, but that is exactly what it is. Instead we should have put our efforts into forming a strong community on a single server where we could all play together. By creating a split between servers we perpetrate the stigma against legacy players and their servers.

The thing that both bugs and disappoints me about the split is that new players come here and see this divide and it gives the impression to some that they'll somehow be excluded if they join Balmung, or I've even seen where some people were under the impression they couldn't even join Balmung unless they were legacy. While I think it's noble that the people who run RPC wanted to make the Gilgamesh community feel at home here, I personally feel more steps should have been taken to squash the schism towards Balmung than to advocate a second server. As far as I've seen RPC has always welcomed people to join who played outside of Balmung, but it was always the home of the Balmung community. I think in order to keep the community as tight and unified as it was, they should have stuck to their guns and told people who wanted to play on a non-legacy server they were more than welcome to but RPC will always be about Balmung. Maybe things will die down once the game goes live, but right now it feels like having two servers is becoming slightly detrimental.

I'm going to be frank. If you don't like what might happen on Gilgamesh, join Balmung. If you don't like Balmung, stick with Gilgamesh. Some people will adamantly stick to Gilgamesh no matter how bad it gets, so trying to move to another server only means those people will be left behind and then we'll have three divides instead of two.

I had actually more or less just said this to someone on skype about the issue. I don't understand the necessity from an RP community standpoint to have split servers. I always thought that in an MMO, maximum exposure for RP was preferred which meant having the most people possible on your server to RP with. I've seen some people say that they want to join Gilgamesh so they can do things themselves that have already been done on Balmung, and that makes very little sense to me. The one example that comes to mind was someone talking about wanting to run a tavern, but fearing the competition because there were already established tavern rps on Balmung. Why not just join one of those taverns if it's that big of a concern? Or just make one anyways and try to do something unique with it that will attract members. If you're more concerned with the server economy, starting fresh when others are max level, or not being the first person to beat content than you are about RP... I have to ask, why are you even here then? That sounds mean, but it's an honest question. This is an RP community, and at one point it was a single, unified community where people could play together. Now it's not unified at all, and I can see a lot of resentment on both sides over something so trivial. Several months from now any new players to the game and the community will only really have which name they like more to help decide which server to join because they'll both be exactly the same. Why not just skip all the growing pains, if you're really that concerned over how well Gilgamesh will fare, and just stick to original server and enjoy the RP.

I'm set on joining Balmung so I shouldn't really give my opinion on this, but I feel I should at least give my experience with Behemoth. During Phase 2 I played on Behemoth with my group of friends from another game, I had heard on the beta forum that Behemoth was a good place to go for RP (this was before I had learned about the RPC), so we tried to RP there and ended up getting cussed out by people, stuff like "Shut the &@($ up" and stuff like that, or being called griefers because we were RPing in public. Join Behemoth at your own peril. Edit: I'll also say I think this is kind of a bad idea, there is already a lot of tension between of the Balmung/Gilgamesh rift, if we stir up all the dust again debating another server instead of Gilgamesh we'll have a further divide. People who want to say on Balmung, people who want to stay on Gilgamesh, and people who want another server.

It's not about being terrified, it's merely a warning to those who want to wade into shark infested water.

I don't think we'll ever get more than a single server, so it's very unlikely they'll make both Balmung AND Gilgamesh official, and there's a chance they may not make either official and decide to go some entirely different route like naming something like Hyperion or Excalibur as the new RP Server. Still, after learning about 4chan and Reddit making their home Gilgamesh I would never get involved with it sadly, I see too much risk of griefing and people making themselves into nuisances (not to say it won't happen on Balmung, just not as likely to happen). I could only imagine it would get even worse if SE dubbed it the official server.

Nope, you can pick any class you want, everyone starts the storyline from the same point.

Players new and old to FFXIV will have an easy time getting into the story for ARR, even though it continues from, and makes references to 1.0, you aren't even really required to have read up on or watched videos from the original game. As far as customization goes, when you imported character data from 1.0 you could still pick a class you wanted to play, this seemed mostly as a means of letting old players repick their starting city (and thus the main scenario they experienced). Once the game launches all 1.0 characters will have the opportunity to recustomize their race, appearance, gender, birthday, pick a new main class/city, and rename their character.

At the end of the day however you'll have two nearly identical cities.

You're totally misunderstanding what I was saying. I'm not putting anyone down, nor am I stating that Gilgamesh won't flourish as an RP community, it has already proven that it can and will. I am discussing this purely in the sense of if they picked an already existing server as the official SE designated RP Server, which would be the most likely candidate, and pointing out that being designated as the "Non-Legacy Server" only matters at launch, post launch that goes away very quickly when players start reaching the same levels as legacy players. Remember that legacy players need to do all the main scenario content in order to unlock dungeons and end game just like the new people, and much of that content is level synced. Because of that we'll be seeing dedicated members of the non-legacy servers hitting level cap and end game very quickly, I mean I managed to hit level 20 within the first weekend of phase 3, so basically it only takes about 2 days to reach the halfway point for a single class.