Lore drops concerning Dragoon via the Heavensward Opening:

[Zelmanov]

SPOILERS

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFm47E-hL2g: for reference

 

 

 

I've watched these forums and remember a while back there were several topics concerning the Dragoon Job and the capabilities they have. With the trailer not only do we have proof of capabilities, but possibly the mechanics.

 

 

- some argued its just a title and only the Azure Dragoon is the crazy one that can jump all over the place. 

 

This is now false because we see multiple dragoons jump and come down upon dragons in the trailer

 

 - some argued jump may be an impractical means of combat against a nimble, ground opponent.

 

This I agreed with until the trailer because it shows that jumps are 

 

a) almost literally lightning fast

 

b) Are Aether assisted as shown by the first scene and the final battle scene. They don't just leap up and come down, they ROCKET down.  This is one of the few times where a job ability is damn close to the cinematic equivalent. 

 

(also note one poor dragoon gets nommed after landing a jump on the big bad dragon. which is hilarious).

 

- Lore behind the new AF armor possibly hinted at (pure speculation)

 

perhaps Ishgard undergoes an Ul'dahn equivalent of free paladins and so the armor Derplander has is the Volunteer Dragoon armor. Either that or its was just that way to keep him unique among all the other faceless Dragoons.

 

 

This just showed up in Reddit. So yeah.

 

 

Yoshida wanted the Warrior of Light to wear the 2.0 Dragoon AF armor, but Ikumori insisted that they used the new weapon since they were going through the trouble of animating it anyway.

 

 

 

 

so thoughts? opinions? Aside from OMG SO COOL (which is what I am shouting every 30 seconds)

[Wymsical]

(also note one poor dragoon gets nommed after landing a jump on the big bad dragon. which is hilarious).

 

This is actually why their armor is so spiky. Harder to eat! Who knows, maybe that dragoon managed to get some stabs in while the dragon was trying to swallow.

 

I especially like the mental images of Ishgard battles being 90% dragoons bouncing through the air like spine-covered pinballs.

[Harmonixer]

I do somewhat agree that PC's that aren't the WoL are capable of -some- of these feats. I also however don't think that everyone is capable of doing it, because they certainly would be if that was the case. You wouldn't be fighting a war like that and just suddenly go 'nah, I'll stay down here and take these to the face'.

 

Seeing one of the DRGs fail too seemed really important to me. I personally am going to take this as 'there clearly isn't only one way to skin a dragon'. Obviously aether boosted armors, Soul Crystals, weapons, everything needs to be in place. But to outright deny people this just closes doors. I think it's poor showing to deny it. To both ends!

 

Repeating myself, but presentation is everything.

[ChewableMorphine]

Do what you must Squeenix, but salvaging the DRG from shit-tier is a feat and a half.

 

At least it's past SMN, and probably will actually be the most hype 60 upgrade, along with WAR, which in my opinion has the best 60 AF armor. I can bet that the new skills that will come with the 60 upgrade will probably be those multi-jumps aether explosions of maximum hype kamikaze nosedives for DRG. Just in time for whatever dragon problem Ishgard will face next, Bismarck maybe? Perhaps even Ravana? I'unnoooooo

[Flashhelix]

Do what you must Squeenix, but salvaging the DRG from shit-tier is a feat and a half.

 

yeah, if only they could do the same for NIN

[Zac Evans]

[align=center]Look, Dragoons have always been a kind of 'aerial' based DPS class. Kain Highwind said it the best. 'You're not the only one who can ride the wind!'

 

In that sense 'Jumps' are perfectly fine. Maybe two or three rapid fire jumps are plausible, but no pulling a Hack-qua, please [/align]

[Michikyou]

Do what you must Squeenix, but salvaging the DRG from shit-tier is a feat and a half.

 

yeah, if only they could do the same for NIN

Nin? Shit tier? What?

 

I pull 500+ DPS as a Ninja. They're the best burst melee dps in the game at the moment and give amazing group support.

 

Vulnerability? Yes please.

Bonus slashing damage? yes please.

 

sure they're no Monk with dragon kick - but geeze, a monk in similar gear will only ever pull 20-40 dps more than me.

[Steel Wolf]

Seeing Dragoons look absolutely badass was a thrill, and I'm not terribly invested in mine emotionally (just leveled up the class because I wanted a DPS'er...and something to do before Heavensward drops).

 

I never actually considered that the spikiness of the armor was a deterrent against dragon noms. I just figured it was for aesthetic value, but being hard to eat makes incredible sense.

 

So, yes, it's incredibly validating that people who are trained in their specific jobs have aetheric powers that are not specific only to the Azure Dragoon. This really does help validate a LOT of RP'ers who display their combat as being superpowered in some manner.

 

Personally, I'm relieved, because becoming aether-powered is literally the crutch of Steel's personal story progression.

[Kellach Woods]

DRG isn't shit anymore.

 

and in fact if more of them elusive jump'd they would stop being shit.

[Raelas]

Do what you must Squeenix, but salvaging the DRG from shit-tier is a feat and a half.

 

yeah, if only they could do the same for NIN

Nin? Shit tier? What?

 

I pull 500+ DPS as a Ninja. They're the best burst melee dps in the game at the moment and give amazing group support.

 

Vulnerability? Yes please.

Bonus slashing damage? yes please.

 

sure they're no Monk with dragon kick - but geeze, a monk in similar gear will only ever pull 20-40 dps more than me.

 

Okay i'll bite on this one...

 

DRG is the best burst melee in the game. Its kind of what they do. For about 25 secs they wreck so much face its crazy. If the Monk's you're seeing are only pulling slightly more DPS than you with equivalent gear then I can only assume the mechanics work against them (They often do, keeping GL up is very annoying sometimes.) or they're just not giving it their all / not very good ect.

 

A great monk is unparalleled melee wise if the fight is kindish to them and they have some real skill with the class. NIN is still a great class, by no means weak, but it IS the weaker of the three melee but not by a massive amount. SE did a great job balancing them in my opinion. I like them all if truth be told.

 

As or vulnerability / slash debuff. A friend of mine once said, and quite harshly at that, "Why would you take a NIN when you could take a MNK?". While I don't exactly agree with that sentiment, I do see their point.

[Kurt S.]

DRG isn't shit anymore.

 

and in fact if more of them elusive jump'd they would stop being shit.

 

You haven't stopped proving the viability of elusive jumps haven't you?

[Aoi Fukiku]

Seeing the trailer itself made me want to suddenly make bri an official dragoon...but I hate ret conning and I sure as hell am not leveling up an alternative through all of that msq stuff again.

 

I was very pleased with how they depicted dragoons and feel like others they did a good job with animating how the jumps truly visualize in combat.

[Raelas]

After re-watching the trailer a few times... contrary to what I once thought about DRG jumps as they're portrayed mechanic wise in the game, they are incredibley fast, extremely accurate and can be propelled without any aiding force (One of the Dragoon's literally changes direction and fires himself down like a bullet. That was cool.)

 

I used to think they jumped and fell but... according to the trailer that isn't the case. 'Goon's be scary. @w@

[Warren Castille]

I'll spit out the inconvenient caveat:

 

The dragoons in the trailer are probably life-long soldiers and cream of the crop. They're the ones on the front lines right now killing dragons to protect their country. It's not unreasonable to say "Oh, that's what world-class dragoons are capable of."

 

That's not to say that every single dragoon out there learns how to do it instantly.

 

I will be unable to take you seriously if your dragoon is under the age of 24 and has only been using a lance for five years. The folks in the trailer are probably your years-served-on-the-frontlines-veterans, not your "I'm a dragoon, but also an envoy to Eorzea and I haven't fought a dragon since 1.0" variety.

 

Don't mind the grognarding, though.

 

[Makyn Loneseeker]

After re-watching the trailer a few times... contrary to what I once thought about DRG jumps as they're portrayed mechanic wise in the game, they are incredibley fast, extremely accurate and can be propelled without any aiding force (One of the Dragoon's literally changes direction and fires himself down like a bullet. That was cool.)

 

I used to think they jumped and fell but... according to the trailer that isn't the case. 'Goon's be scary. @w@

Les be careful with the 'goons there.

 

Also for any of those training to be a dragoon definitely wouldn't learn it instantly. But I can definitely see some accidents involving flying very far away from the originally planned destination during a jump.

[Sylastair]

I'll spit out the inconvenient caveat:

 

The dragoons in the trailer are probably life-long soldiers and cream of the crop. They're the ones on the front lines right now killing dragons to protect their country. It's not unreasonable to say "Oh, that's what world-class dragoons are capable of."

 

That's not to say that every single dragoon out there learns how to do it instantly.

 

I will be unable to take you seriously if your dragoon is under the age of 24 and has only been using a lance for five years. The folks in the trailer are probably your years-served-on-the-frontlines-veterans, not your "I'm a dragoon, but also an envoy to Eorzea and I haven't fought a dragon since 1.0" variety.

 

Don't mind the grognarding, though.

 

 

 

 

 

I completely agree, and this is more or less how I look at it. In my opinion, after the Fall of Dalamud the war likely became far more brutal and made those Dragoons that fought and survived all the more formidable. For Flynt, he is, and will always be a Dragoon. He's dedicated his life to the spear and it's really the only weapon he uses if only because the level of dedication I imagine it would take to retain those skills at that level is huge.

 

Even still, he ddoesn't typically use jumps in fights with people, since even at the speeds it can be done, it usually isn't viable or practical. For me, one of Flynt's biggest growth points for progression is creating his own fighting style that uses Dragoon abilities in a way that works more in traditional combat. To give an example, when Flynt fought another Dragoon from his past they bounded near and past each other attempting to slash one another before Flynt tried to launch/into/ him with a flying knee (not his smartest move…). The result was several broken bones and nearly being knocked out in the process from the sheer speeds and limits of the human body. For me, the ability to not only jump in that manner, but to do it in a way where you don’t kill yourself requires constant practice

 

This actually leads to what I always thought the points on a Dragoon’s armor were for as well! While I agree that it also was very much useful in preventing being eaten/causing a severe case of indigestion if they succeed, I always thought they would also aid a Dragoon in staying on his foe if he did not totally “Stick” the landing (See what I did there? Anyone? I’ll see myself out…) I actually wrote a combat scene for Flynt where he was falling facing skyward and using his spear to hold off a pursuing Aevis, and used his back points of stabitude to attach himself to an unsuspecting Dravanian (which added a whole new meaning to the term backstab).

 

...I don’t really have much else to add, I just love talking Dragoon lore

[Steel Wolf]

Well for a smaller, humanoid target, jumps would be wildly impractical and serve no purpose other than to perhaps be a titanic showoff. A Top Gun Dragoon, as it were. :3

 

But against a large enemy like a dragon, or anything close to dragon-sized, jumps would not only be effective to aim but also provide the force needed to get a spear point deep into the (presumably) heavy scale and hide of the beastie.

 

It all just looks so fun...bit of a shame I can't bring myself to roll a proper Dragoon alt.

[Seriphyn]

I agree with this, seems to be the only fair balancing act!

 

EDIT: With Warren's idea that those trailer dragoons are probably REALLY experienced lancers who are not in their 20s. Damn editing...

[Harmonixer]

Following up on the age bit mentioned before. Anime culture and all of the things it influences seem to have this habit of making incredibly versed combatants that are the ripe age of teen angst and highschool thought processing, despite being exposed to the 'horrors of war'. Older characters are less popular with the target audience, cited as 'harder to relate to'.

 

I find it more likely from younger characters able to perform these feats only because of things like Soul Crystals, if I've understood them correctly. Maybe we could argue that armors (aethericly?) compensate for lack of experience and do some of the work. Kind of like a powered armor concept, with... aether.

 

I still think it would be very uncommon. I can repeat things about presentation, but for the sake of this discussion I'd like to think it's better left to older adventures and soldiers that are more likely to have the experience up to that level of 'power'.

 

'Highly unlikely' but not impossible. My head canon is that the fellow who got eaten was one of our younger protagonist types.

 

'He's not coming home honey, you better move onto Option B-kun.'

 

Also, something occurs to me:

 

It would take an almost impossibly brave individual to do this sort of stuff. It really occurred to me as I watch it more, just how absolutely batshit you'd need to be as a character to do this sort of thing. Perhaps I feel to some degree, that it's not widely well represented in RP? A friend of mine calls it being 'needlessly overconfident' in the most affectionate way possible.

 

That all being said, I still think it would be cool to have a bunch of DRGs carried over to a battle in airships to engage in glorious aerial combat with some of the dragons.

[Zyrusticae]

Ageism in full effect in this thread... :lol:

 

Just gonna say, I really, really do not give two craps about what ages people give their characters (and this I say as someone playing a warrior who's approaching middle age). There are all kinds of issues you run into when you're so concerned with what's 'plausible' and what isn't in the context of a fictional universe. Some things are reasonable - the laws of physics and how aether works and whatnot are all requred to keep things working and everyone running on the same playing field. On the other hand, if someone wants to play a young prodigy I see little to gain from preventing them from doing so outside of satisfying your own (ageist) snobbery. Like I keep saying, it's all about execution: someone who is such a genius in martial arts would undoubtedly have other issues - including issues from other, older peers who exhibit behavior towards them that is undoubtedly similar to some of the attitudes you see on here towards younger, hyper-competent characters.

 

Ultimately, I think throwing things out based on premise is a really poor practice that needs to stop sooner than later. You miss out on a lot of cool stuff if you ignore things just because the premise sounds boring or overwrought or outrageous to you. You never know when you're going to be surprised. This is especially important because there is only a limited palette to draw from to create any particular premise, hence it all comes down to execution in the end. We draw from the same sources to recreate the same stories over and over again, but the way those stories are told can change dramatically between tellings, and one telling can resonate with one person far better than it does another.

[Warren Castille]

My concern is with the army of hyper-competent youthful dragoons that are all not on the Frontlines fighting for their nation. If you're that elite, what are you doing away during the war? It doesn't mesh, and beyond considering believability and plausibility physics/mechanics/whatever-wise, it doesn't make sense for Ishgard to be content for so many young prodigies to leave during their time of need.

 

I've never been secretive about my roleplaying standards or snobbery. If you're playing a 22 year old super-competent dragoon away on a diplomatic mission, I probably don't want to RP with you. On that same not, you probably don't want to RP with me either.

[Melkire]

"The Azure Dragoon" has only ever been the title for the best of the best, which is the greatest living dragoon at any given time, which is like saying the cream of the crop when the crop in question, Ishgard's dragoons, are the best of the best with regards to the more mundane "lancers" and "knights" of the Holy See. The dragoons are, after all, masters of aerial combat, and now that we have the Heavensward Opening Cinematic, we can actually appreciate what Square-Enix means by "aerial combat".

 

This basically means Estinien is, at the moment, Dragonslayer Supreme.

 

The Warrior-of-Light-Main-Character-Who-Trained-Under-Alberic, a.k.a. the stand-in for Derplander, is arguably the only individual to ever match Estinien in potential. "Potential" is a fundamentally different concept from "current competency," and I'd argue that battle-hardened veterans of the dragoon corps, such as they are, are likely not young, but they won't be too old, either. I expect many are hideously mangled in combat on a regular basis during extended conflicts with the Dravanians, and as such they are constantly training new recruits and replenishing their ranks in such times.

 

I don't think mid-twenties at the youngest is too unreasonable for a fresh dragoon, with their best being in their mid-thirties at the oldest.

[Warren Castille]

I don't think mid-twenties at the youngest is too unreasonable for a fresh dragoon, with their best being in their mid-thirties at the oldest.

 

Stop oppressing my 18 year old Crimson Dragoon. He's from a unit you've probably never heard of.

[Branson Thorne]

My concern is with the army of hyper-competent youthful dragoons that are all not on the Frontlines fighting for their nation. If you're that elite, what are you doing away during the war? It doesn't mesh, and beyond considering believability and plausibility physics/mechanics/whatever-wise, it doesn't make sense for Ishgard to be content for so many young prodigies to leave during their time of need.

 

I've never been secretive about my roleplaying standards or snobbery. If you're playing a 22 year old super-competent dragoon away on a diplomatic mission, I probably don't want to RP with you. On that same not, you probably don't want to RP with me either.

I'm actually with you on this, but it's something I try to ignore.

 

If we are to make a big deal out of this, then we should feel the same about the little 19yr female miqo crime boss that sips tea in the Quicksand all night talking about how deadly she is. (you know who you are)

 

We'd also have to disagree with all the 20yr old combat jack-of-all-trades masters in axes, swords, archery, lances, daggers. At 20, you're the master of hardly anything.

 

By the time we'd get done, there'd no one for us to RP with.

[Warren Castille]

My concern is with the army of hyper-competent youthful dragoons that are all not on the Frontlines fighting for their nation. If you're that elite, what are you doing away during the war? It doesn't mesh, and beyond considering believability and plausibility physics/mechanics/whatever-wise, it doesn't make sense for Ishgard to be content for so many young prodigies to leave during their time of need.

 

I've never been secretive about my roleplaying standards or snobbery. If you're playing a 22 year old super-competent dragoon away on a diplomatic mission, I probably don't want to RP with you. On that same not, you probably don't want to RP with me either.

I'm actually with you on this, but it's something I try to ignore.

 

If we are to make a big deal out of this, then we should feel the same about the little 19yr female miqo crime boss that sips tea in the Quicksand all night talking about how deadly she is. (you know who you are)

 

We'd also have to disagree with all the 20yr old combat jack-of-all-trades masters in axes, swords, archery, lances, daggers. At 20, you're the master of hardly anything.

 

By the time we'd get done, there'd no one for us to RP with.

 

On the contrary, I've found that narrows it down to a very splendid selection.