Reasoning for irregular race/nationality combinations

[Edda]

If there's gay sex in Ishgard, there's definitely racism.

 

Calling it now that there will be some side-quests in the city that involve some disenfranchised 1st/2nd generation lalafell/miqo'te being shit on by some holier-than-thou Elezen knights. Feel free to screencap this post for when it happens so you can be like "Wow Edda was right."

 

We just finished with this discussion, I think, wherein it was established that correlation != causation. 

 

So may I screencap and post this for when it doesn't happen?

Yes, and so will I. I will be sure to necro this thread and PM you when it happens, because it will. If not in 3.0, then 3.1, and so on and so forth. If it doesn't happen by 4.0 I'll give you like a million gil or something.

I've quoted two separate occasions from the official forums where Fern said that there is a quest in 3.0 dealing with a cross-race offspring/couple/something ( and the differences they experiences implied or so)

Then I guess it's a good thing for Kayllen I'm not demanding any gil for this bet.

[Wymsical]

If there's gay sex in Ishgard, there's definitely racism.

 

Calling it now that there will be some side-quests in the city that involve some disenfranchised 1st/2nd generation lalafell/miqo'te being shit on by some holier-than-thou Elezen knights. Feel free to screencap this post for when it happens so you can be like "Wow Edda was right."

 

We just finished with this discussion, I think, wherein it was established that correlation != causation. 

 

So may I screencap and post this for when it doesn't happen?

I'm curious, why are you so determined that Ishgard doesn't have any forms of racism present? Gridania is well-established as hella racist but people play as natives there all the time. Hailing from a place with significant interracial tensions doesn't have to reflect poorly on your own character. Given Ishgard's very prominent xenophobia, hating anyone who isn't native seems very likely, or at least with extreme suspicion and prejudice. Is a more cultural form of -ism really that different?

[Kage]

Lore about conflicts between Hyur and Elezen?

-Tension between races because bloody history between them. They never made up but put aside their issues. They don't really like each. They just put up with each other because common enemy. In beginning of the 6AE the Elezen migrated back in, then hyur migrated and tried to take Elezen lands. Clashing and moving apart - gets ingrained in their society. Lalafell will rise on occasion and attack other races, for example. In 3.0 we will have half-races. But they are treated different. Quest will come to explain.

Cross-racial?

-adventurers come from different land. From places slightly more “progressive.” Live together but separate. Hyur and elezen had wars. A lot of bad blood between races. Recently races to come together in single nations. Cross Racial is possible, but it doesn’t happen a lot. It’s a cultural thing. 3.0 there will be a cross-racial union.

[Aya]

My involvement in this part of the conversation stems from the notion that certain ideas can be uttered as fact without any real evidence or proof and others just sort of hit the ground running with it which, ironically, would then cause a sort of bandwagon mentality wherin someone who comes in and doesn't observe what has been asserted to be fact doesn't acknowledge it and is then questioned, derided, or even belittled for not being on said bandwagon. That's where I have umbrage.

Fact?  Fact?.  No, we were discussing an interesting matter of conjecture when you decided to insert yourself as the judge of what is fact where it did not belong, and to do so with considerable condescension (I did catch your reply to me before you edited it).

 

While happily ensconced in your highchair lobbing "That's just conjecture", "Where are the facts?"  "Whats the proof?" you've missed the entire point, and utterly obscured what should have been interesting in this entire conversation.  Nothing at this stage is provable (except perhaps by those with inside knowledge of Heavenward development) because no evidence is yet available.  Your "point", as it were, is nothing but meaningless tautology combined with high-handed rhetoric and a poisonous way of delivering it.

[Khadan]

My involvement in this part of the conversation stems from the notion that certain ideas can be uttered as fact without any real evidence or proof and others just sort of hit the ground running with it which, ironically, would then cause a sort of bandwagon mentality wherin someone who comes in and doesn't observe what has been asserted to be fact doesn't acknowledge it and is then questioned, derided, or even belittled for not being on said bandwagon. That's where I have umbrage.

 

And herein lies the crux of my issue with your argument. In no way has anyone stated that these matters are the "truth." Feasible? Yes. Likely? Possibly. However, at no point have they said "this is the truth, that is how it is."

 

Your involvement, on the other hand, seems to consist entirely of saying "well, it doesn't SAY that anywhere, so it is not only not true, it's also unfeasible and unlikely." You're effectively denying any attempt to "bend" the lore for entertainment purposes. These are not concepts that are being toted as reality - just feasibilities that people thought could be interesting to play their character from. If it does not explicitly state it in the lore, you cannot have a character that runs with this idea without providing evidence that fits your criterion.

 

Meanwhile, you do not stand on the opposite point. You don't provide evidence to why it couldn't be, only demand evidence why it could. Your "we don't really know" platform does not hold water, because just as we don't know whether the possible idea is true... we also do not know if it's untrue. So, if you are going to shoot down someone's ideas for bending the lore, at the very least you need to provide your own evidence as to why it can't be that way.

 

What you do not do is lay the job of providing evidence solely in the hands of your opponent. That is not debate - your counterpoint should consist of evidence as to why their idea is wrong or unfeasible, not lay it on your opponent to provide evidence for every little nitpick you throw while you yourself remain unassailed. "We don't know" is not a valid counterpoint.

 

If an idea sounds feasible enough, other people might run with it. To the point that it becomes a sort of understood fan-rule, but it is just that - fan-created. It is not truth and can be destroyed with properly provided evidence in the game or from the creators otherwise. Of course, you are right in that people should not be shamed into thinking that this fan-ruling is the actual truth and derided for not agreeing with it. We are not the role-play ruling body, nor will we ever be.

 

However, I'm going to assume (and possibly wrongly so!) that you mention that point because that is how you feel you are being treated in this thread. However, I posit that it's not because you disagree with the fan-theory, but that you put forth the image that you outright deny it utterly and demand that those who follow it provide evidence as to exactly where it's stated in game this exists (which it doesn't, because it's fan theory). Meanwhile, as mentioned, you do not provide any similar in-game evidence as to why the fan theory couldn't be... because it's in the hands of your opponent to provide all the evidence while you have to don't have to do more than shake your head and say "no no no." I believe that's where the anger and irritation comes from.

 

You're incorrect. Making assumptions is what got you here, in the first place. I'll state again that when you make a claim of $thing the burden of proof is on you. That's just how discussion works. I'm not standing here, as you acerbically put it, saying 'nonono', I'm stating that categorically none of you have proven the existence of systemic cultural racism (or discrimination, for Warren) and until that changes no one has any real reason to just listen and believe when you say that it is so and that that is the canon truth, asserted or stated.

 

I don't need to stand on the opposite point because A: it would be ridiculous for me to argue a point with no proof, and B: knowing that said argument has no proof and that plenty of you seem to be arguing among the stance of devil's advocate' I therefore don't need to make the argument on behalf of the opposing side as that is already being done.

 

What you do not do is lay the job of providing evidence solely in the hands of your opponent. That is not debate 

 

Actually!

 

My counterpoint is the lack of evidence in your case. That's all I need to prove my point which as stated several times now, as there is no evidence of $thing we cannot assume $thing is factual. You assertion that this somehow is a reflection of me telling people what they can and cannot do with their pretendy fun times is an ignorant one, as well. But I already covered that in my previous post and don't need to rehash it again.

 

my 'treatment' in this thread is irrelevant, otherwise. If you're asking for my honest and personal opinion then I can give it but as it hasn't been asked I don't feel the need to divulge it.

[Khadan]

If there's gay sex in Ishgard, there's definitely racism.

 

Calling it now that there will be some side-quests in the city that involve some disenfranchised 1st/2nd generation lalafell/miqo'te being shit on by some holier-than-thou Elezen knights. Feel free to screencap this post for when it happens so you can be like "Wow Edda was right."

 

We just finished with this discussion, I think, wherein it was established that correlation != causation. 

 

So may I screencap and post this for when it doesn't happen?

Yes, and so will I. I will be sure to necro this thread and PM you when it happens, because it will. If not in 3.0, then 3.1, and so on and so forth. If it doesn't happen by 4.0 I'll give you like a million gil or something.

I've quoted two separate occasions from the official forums where Fern said that there is a quest in 3.0 dealing with a cross-race offspring/couple/something ( and the differences they experiences implied or so)

 

Which you've deliberately seemed to fail to grasp is not relevant to the discussion.

[Khadan]

If there's gay sex in Ishgard, there's definitely racism.

 

Calling it now that there will be some side-quests in the city that involve some disenfranchised 1st/2nd generation lalafell/miqo'te being shit on by some holier-than-thou Elezen knights. Feel free to screencap this post for when it happens so you can be like "Wow Edda was right."

 

We just finished with this discussion, I think, wherein it was established that correlation != causation. 

 

So may I screencap and post this for when it doesn't happen?

Yes, and so will I. I will be sure to necro this thread and PM you when it happens, because it will. If not in 3.0, then 3.1, and so on and so forth. If it doesn't happen by 4.0 I'll give you like a million gil or something.

I've quoted two separate occasions from the official forums where Fern said that there is a quest in 3.0 dealing with a cross-race offspring/couple/something ( and the differences they experiences implied or so)

Then I guess it's a good thing for Kayllen I'm not demanding any gil for this bet.

 

It's a good thing for you I wouldn't take that bet, anyway. I can make my own money just like I can make my own arguments.

[Khadan]

If there's gay sex in Ishgard, there's definitely racism.

 

Calling it now that there will be some side-quests in the city that involve some disenfranchised 1st/2nd generation lalafell/miqo'te being shit on by some holier-than-thou Elezen knights. Feel free to screencap this post for when it happens so you can be like "Wow Edda was right."

 

We just finished with this discussion, I think, wherein it was established that correlation != causation. 

 

So may I screencap and post this for when it doesn't happen?

I'm curious, why are you so determined that Ishgard doesn't have any forms of racism present? Gridania is well-established as hella racist but people play as natives there all the time. Hailing from a place with significant interracial tensions doesn't have to reflect poorly on your own character. Given Ishgard's very prominent xenophobia, hating anyone who isn't native seems very likely, or at least with extreme suspicion and prejudice. Is a more cultural form of -ism really that different?

 

/sigh.

 

Go reread the posts. No where have I stated that there is no racism.

[Kage]

How is it not relevant? Edit: In 3.0. Re: HEAVENSWARD. Re: A Floating Continent or RE: ISHGARD

 

They are treated differently because of their cultural differences stemming from the socially ingrained DO NOT LIKE EACH OTHER beliefs held between the races. It's been made a point in two separate but not wholly unrelated occasions by Fern that this. is. a. thing.

 

It's not something that is treated carelessly.

[Khadan]

Honestly, I never really have seen much /racism/ in Ishgard. (Though that could be because of racism meaning perspective.) I am not denying there may be some... I don't know every quest or NPC chatter.

 

They are Xenophobic in terms of they don't want outsiders to be to involved in their matters. Lots of pride of not wanting matters to be interfered. Having to rely on outsiders to solve their problems is a sign of weakness that would make other houses lose respect.

 

Most of the MSQs in the North, Pre 2.4ish, involve you actually being purely an errand boy except for literally annoying the leaders with things until they reluctantly agreed to listen to you. If they truly saw you as a lesser being, they would have kicked you out entirely. The matter of which caused folks to trust you seemed to be because folks were too prideful to admit to things. The Ishgardians never seem to consider folks 'lesser' people, just that outsiders should stick to their outside and leave Ishgardian matters to the natives.

 

They dislike folks trampling over their world of tradition and such in the name of "we know better than you." Which is why there was so much conflict about Garuda and the post 2.0 MSQ. They only asked for aid for Steps of Faith and such because the danger of massacre out weighed the cost of loss of pride.  The fact the Ishgardians were extremely grateful for the aid (so far as to GO TO ANOTHER NATION FOR THE CELEBRATION) shows they never thought of adventurers and other nations as lesser just... over Zealous in their ideas of 'good for everyone.'

 

A lot of racism exists between the Elezen and the Moonkeepers, where the Elezen genuinely don't see the Moonkeepers as a civilized race. (Archer storyline and Lancer Storyline)

 

We, also, have to remember Racism in FFXIV is different than in real life. There are actual differences in the races and traits that define their ability. You don't get call racism for giving the heavy box to a Roegadyn  rather than Lalafell. It is a fact of life.

 

((If anything a lot of folks are racist (or nationalist) against Ishgard because they are a bit colder than everyone else (/pun) ))

 

A+ here. Also your pun game is frosty. cwidt?

[Khadan]

How is it not relevant?

 

They are treated differently because of their cultural differences stemming from the socially ingrained DO NOT LIKE EACH OTHER beliefs held between the races. It's been made a point in two separate but not wholly unrelated occasions by Fern that this. is. a. thing.

 

It's not something that is treated carelessly.

 

This is literally the last time I will say this to you: Please provide evidence that what you are saying pertains to Ishgard directly being a racist state. If you cannot do this then please stop persisting in repeating it.

[Tiergan]

For the sake of making this not drag on for thirty pages, let's just all agree to autocorrect "racism" to "discrimination."

 

Hey, past!me. It's current/future!me. We tried, man. We tried.

 

GUYS. IT'S ME FROM THE FAR FUTURE. JUST GIVE IT UP, ALL IS LOST. IN THE FUTURE NOBODY CAN READ.

 

Man, I feel like we should have just... gone with the idea that all of Eorzea is really prejudiced against each other for one reason or another or something. <_<:a

 

On a slightly random note - I love that Eorzea's a pretty prejudiced lot. As horrible as it is in the real world when it happens, it can make for fascinating conflicts and stories in a fantasy setting. I rolled up a Duskwight alt BECAUSE i was fascinated by how much horrible shit they go through in Gridania (which is super well documented and I can point to folks who could write books on how poorly they get treated.) The key to any great story is conflict - and I liked exploring that conflict with the Duskwight.

 

Tiergan and Lurial both have had to struggle with discrimination as well (ignoring the whole Ala Mhigan bit just so we don't go down that rabbit hole again) - because Lurial started off a penniless street child in a city where Coin = Status and Tiergan was pretty much the same but in a very different manner.

 

Furious Storm was a Hellsguard Roegadyn in Limsa Lominsa with no sealegs for a bit, so I'm sure you can only imagine how well that went for him until he traveled to Ul'dah where Hellsguard were a lot more common place.

 

This stuff makes for some really interesting stories. I'm not sure if the resistance to the idea that Ishgard might be racist comes at the heels of fear that somehow the city is less 'cool' if it's racist. I actually think that makes it twice as interesting because if they ARE super racist and xenophobic - that means Heavensward is going to be rife with plenty of juicy conflict for our characters to run into in the MSQ and for us as roleplayers to play with as storytellers.

 

YMMV, I suppose - but I think it's awesome that there's so much simmering strife beneath the surface for racial, social, and religious reasons for us to write tales about.

[Wymsical]

If there's gay sex in Ishgard, there's definitely racism.

 

Calling it now that there will be some side-quests in the city that involve some disenfranchised 1st/2nd generation lalafell/miqo'te being shit on by some holier-than-thou Elezen knights. Feel free to screencap this post for when it happens so you can be like "Wow Edda was right."

 

We just finished with this discussion, I think, wherein it was established that correlation != causation. 

 

So may I screencap and post this for when it doesn't happen?

I'm curious, why are you so determined that Ishgard doesn't have any forms of racism present? Gridania is well-established as hella racist but people play as natives there all the time. Hailing from a place with significant interracial tensions doesn't have to reflect poorly on your own character. Given Ishgard's very prominent xenophobia, hating anyone who isn't native seems very likely, or at least with extreme suspicion and prejudice. Is a more cultural form of -ism really that different?

 

/sigh.

 

Go reread the posts. No where have I stated that there is no racism.

Apparently my implication of 'largely racist' didn't get through. Now that I've clarified, mind actually answering?

[Khadan]

My involvement in this part of the conversation stems from the notion that certain ideas can be uttered as fact without any real evidence or proof and others just sort of hit the ground running with it which, ironically, would then cause a sort of bandwagon mentality wherin someone who comes in and doesn't observe what has been asserted to be fact doesn't acknowledge it and is then questioned, derided, or even belittled for not being on said bandwagon. That's where I have umbrage.

Fact?  Fact?.  No, we were discussing an interesting matter of conjecture when you decided to insert yourself as the judge of what is fact where it did not belong, and to do so with considerable condescension (I did catch your reply to me before you edited it).

 

While happily ensconced in your highchair lobbing "That's just conjecture", "Where are the facts?"  "Whats the proof?" you've missed the entire point, and utterly obscured what should have been interesting in this entire conversation.  Nothing at this stage is provable (except perhaps by those with inside knowledge of Heavenward development) because no evidence is yet available.  Your "point", as it were, is nothing but meaningless tautology combined with high-handed rhetoric and a poisonous way of delivering it.

 

Calm down. Also apologies for the reply. I edited because it did come off as condescending which wasn't my intent. 

 

You're incorrect, still, though. You have consistently claimed directly "There is systematic racism in Ishgard". Please deny this.

 

My point has been to stand between you and making fallacious assertions. You're engaging in projection at this point and I'm unsure why; because I disagreed with you, perhaps?

 

I don't appreciate your use of the word 'poisonous' here. It's almost as ridiculous as tumbr's utterance of the word 'toxic' when someone disagrees with the many false assertions there, too. If disagreeing with you in a logical and provable manner is all it takes for you to whip out insults then I think we're done talking in this thread. Hopefully this ire will pass, though.

[Val]

For the sake of making this not drag on for thirty pages, let's just all agree to autocorrect "racism" to "discrimination."

 

Hey, past!me. It's current/future!me. We tried, man. We tried.

 

GUYS. IT'S ME FROM THE FAR FUTURE. JUST GIVE IT UP, ALL IS LOST. IN THE FUTURE NOBODY CAN READ.

 

Man, I feel like we should have just... gone with the idea that all of Eorzea is really prejudiced against each other for one reason or another or something. <_<:a

 

On a slightly random note - I love that Eorzea's a pretty prejudiced lot.  As horrible as it is in the real world when it happens, it can make for fascinating conflicts and stories in a fantasy setting.  I rolled up a Duskwight alt BECAUSE i was fascinated by how much horrible shit they go through in Gridania (which is super well documented and I can point to folks who could write books on how poorly they get treated.)  The key to any great story is conflict - and I liked exploring that conflict with the Duskwight.

 

Tiergan and Lurial both have had to struggle with discrimination as well (ignoring the whole Ala Mhigan bit just so we don't go down that rabbit hole again) - because Lurial started off a penniless street child in a city where Coin = Status and Tiergan was pretty much the same but in a very different manner.  

 

Furious Storm was a Hellsguard Roegadyn in Limsa Lominsa with no sealegs for a bit, so I'm sure you can only imagine how well that went for him until he traveled to Ul'dah where Hellsguard were a lot more common place.

 

This stuff makes for some really interesting stories.  I'm not sure if the resistance to the idea that Ishgard might be racist comes at the heels of fear that somehow the city is less 'cool' if it's racist.  I actually think that makes it twice as interesting because if they ARE super racist and xenophobic - that means Heavensward is going to be rife with plenty of juicy conflict for our characters to run into in the MSQ and for us as roleplayers to play with as storytellers.

 

YMMV, I suppose - but I think it's awesome that there's so much simmering strife beneath the surface for racial, social, and religious reasons.

 

Tbh I agree with this. I love the idea that there's racism and prejudice. It allows for interesting stories, interesting characters, and the possibility for a great deal of development.

[Khadan]

For the sake of making this not drag on for thirty pages, let's just all agree to autocorrect "racism" to "discrimination."

 

Hey, past!me. It's current/future!me. We tried, man. We tried.

 

GUYS. IT'S ME FROM THE FAR FUTURE. JUST GIVE IT UP, ALL IS LOST. IN THE FUTURE NOBODY CAN READ.

 

Man, I feel like we should have just... gone with the idea that all of Eorzea is really prejudiced against each other for one reason or another or something. <_<:a

 

On a slightly random note - I love that Eorzea's a pretty prejudiced lot.  As horrible as it is in the real world when it happens, it can make for fascinating conflicts and stories in a fantasy setting.  I rolled up a Duskwight alt BECAUSE i was fascinated by how much horrible shit they go through in Gridania (which is super well documented and I can point to folks who could write books on how poorly they get treated.)  The key to any great story is conflict - and I liked exploring that conflict with the Duskwight.

 

Tiergan and Lurial both have had to struggle with discrimination as well (ignoring the whole Ala Mhigan bit just so we don't go down that rabbit hole again) - because Lurial started off a penniless street child in a city where Coin = Status and Tiergan was pretty much the same but in a very different manner.  

 

Furious Storm was a Hellsguard Roegadyn in Limsa Lominsa with no sealegs for a bit, so I'm sure you can only imagine how well that went for him until he traveled to Ul'dah where Hellsguard were a lot more common place.

 

This stuff makes for some really interesting stories.  I'm not sure if the resistance to the idea that Ishgard might be racist comes at the heels of fear that somehow the city is less 'cool' if it's racist.  I actually think that makes it twice as interesting because if they ARE super racist and xenophobic - that means Heavensward is going to be rife with plenty of juicy conflict for our characters to run into in the MSQ and for us as roleplayers to play with as storytellers.

 

YMMV, I suppose - but I think it's awesome that there's so much simmering strife beneath the surface for racial, social, and religious reasons for us to write tales about.

 

I agree. =)

[Kage]

How do you not call treating half-races differently racist?

 

Because you know what that is? I call that shit racisim. Call that politically correct however you might, but treating "half-races" differently is racist.

 

Edit: This is the one and only time I directly call out Ishgard on being racist. Provide me some other point where I say that Ishgard itself is racist.

[Gegenji]

I'm stating that categorically none of you have proven the existence of systemic cultural racism (or discrimination, for Warren) and until that changes no one has any real reason to just listen and believe when you say that it is so and that that is the canon truth, asserted or stated.

 

And why, exactly do we need to categorically prove conjecture that is being made purely as an interesting "maybe" that someone wants to play off of for their own personal RP?

[Khadan]

If there's gay sex in Ishgard, there's definitely racism.

 

Calling it now that there will be some side-quests in the city that involve some disenfranchised 1st/2nd generation lalafell/miqo'te being shit on by some holier-than-thou Elezen knights. Feel free to screencap this post for when it happens so you can be like "Wow Edda was right."

 

We just finished with this discussion, I think, wherein it was established that correlation != causation. 

 

So may I screencap and post this for when it doesn't happen?

I'm curious, why are you so determined that Ishgard doesn't have any forms of racism present? Gridania is well-established as hella racist but people play as natives there all the time. Hailing from a place with significant interracial tensions doesn't have to reflect poorly on your own character. Given Ishgard's very prominent xenophobia, hating anyone who isn't native seems very likely, or at least with extreme suspicion and prejudice. Is a more cultural form of -ism really that different?

 

/sigh.

 

Go reread the posts. No where have I stated that there is no racism.

Apparently my implication of 'largely racist' didn't get through. Now that I've clarified, mind actually answering?

 

I have answered, you still haven't read anything I've written before this, though.

 

I'm curious, why are you so determined that Ishgard doesn't have any forms of racism present?

 

I'm not. Again.

[Khadan]

How do you not call treating half-races differently racist?

 

Because you know what that is? I call that shit racisim. Call that politically correct however you might, but treating "half-races" differently is racist.

 

It's a good thing I don't disagree with you. You're still not making any reasonable points in relation to the actual conversation, though.

[Edda]

How do you not call treating half-races differently racist?

 

Because you know what that is? I call that shit racisim. Call that politically correct however you might, but treating "half-races" differently is racist.

 

It's a good thing I don't disagree with you. You're still not making any reasonable points in relation to the actual conversation, though.

Wait, I'm confused now... just what are you arguing then? That there is no racism in Ishgard, right? Or that... we can't assume there is because there's no proof, or whatever? I feel like you are backtracking somewhere...

[Khadan]

I'm stating that categorically none of you have proven the existence of systemic cultural racism (or discrimination, for Warren) and until that changes no one has any real reason to just listen and believe when you say that it is so and that that is the canon truth, asserted or stated.

 

And why, exactly do we need to categorically prove conjecture that is being made purely as an interesting "maybe" that someone wants to play off of for their own personal RP?

 

It wasn't posited as "maybe". That's why it needs to be categorically proven. If it was just posited as 'maybe' we wouldn't be here, would we? Spoiler: no we wouldn't. I'd just be stating that since there's no evidence of it, my personal opinion is that I wouldn't be recognizing it within the bounds of my RP as it relates to my character. Which doesn't prohibit anyone else from doing so or me from interacting with them, obviously.

[cuideag]

How do you not call treating half-races differently racist?

 

Because you know what that is? I call that shit racisim. Call that politically correct however you might, but treating "half-races" differently is racist.

 

It's a good thing I don't disagree with you. You're still not making any reasonable points in relation to the actual conversation, though.

Wait, I'm confused now... just what are you arguing then? That there is no racism in Ishgard, right? Or that... we can't assume there is because there's no proof, or whatever? I feel like you are backtracking somewhere...

He's arguing that everyone is wrong and I guess that's it? End of discussion?

[Khadan]

How do you not call treating half-races differently racist?

 

Because you know what that is? I call that shit racisim. Call that politically correct however you might, but treating "half-races" differently is racist.

 

It's a good thing I don't disagree with you. You're still not making any reasonable points in relation to the actual conversation, though.

Wait, I'm confused now... just what are you arguing then? That there is no racism in Ishgard, right? Or that... we can't assume there is because there's no proof, or whatever? I feel like you are backtracking somewhere...

 

You'd be incorrect. The assertion was made that "There is a systematic culture of racism in Ishgard". There is no evidence for this. If it was posed as "there's probably some racism in Ishgard" then obviously I'd have no ground to stand on.

[Khadan]

How do you not call treating half-races differently racist?

 

Because you know what that is? I call that shit racisim. Call that politically correct however you might, but treating "half-races" differently is racist.

 

It's a good thing I don't disagree with you. You're still not making any reasonable points in relation to the actual conversation, though.

Wait, I'm confused now... just what are you arguing then? That there is no racism in Ishgard, right? Or that... we can't assume there is because there's no proof, or whatever? I feel like you are backtracking somewhere...

He's arguing that everyone is wrong and I guess that's it? End of discussion?

 

Just the people that are wrong, actually. But please, do continue to keep on dog piling. It doesn't make me wrong, in fact it only serves to prove that the bandwagon fallacy I expressed concern about is all that more relevant.